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Thread: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

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    Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    No - not a typo or flashback!

    Microsoft have announced the 'Surface 3' (as opposed to the 'Surface Pro 3' that we know well here) this one comes in 64gb and 128gb versions and is $499 and $599.

    It runs FULL windows 8.1, so in theory can do what we need. But just has an Intel Atom processor, so will be much less powerful and slow to build previews etc. Not sure if that makes it unusable or not, but thought it worth sharing. It should have a longer battery life from that lower power processor.

    I still hear rumors of an iPad Pro, but we can be confident it will come with a high price tag, and most likely a single funky connector that no one else has used as yet <sigh>
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    I saw this and it peaked my interest significantly. I love my Ipad air, but being unable to transfer files or run 'real software' is really beginning to become a problem. Sure, if the Ipad pro addresses this need then things could get interesting. But not if they use that new usb connection.

    But I prefer a smaller screen device on the road.
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    I'm a Mac guy so I'm sort of waiting to see what the SP4 will be like and if Apple will finally release a MacBook Tab/iPad Pro this fall before buying anything.
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    It will be interesting to see if the Atom can run C1, tethered. It's a lighter machine and probably gets better battery life due to the processor.

    Paul

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    I really doubt the Atom can run C1Pro8. But there's only one way to find out.

    Thumbdrive with C1Pro installer on it. Go into Best Buy, install. Tether your IQ180 and see what happens. They won't mind at all.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Forget Best Buy, go pay a visit to your local Microsoft store to try it - the staff may thank you for breaking up their lonely day ...

    Btw in Portland I think that Apple have a cruel and sadistic mind because we have a huge beautiful glass Apple Store that's always packed and buzzing practically next door to the small Microsoft store nestled next to the AT&T & Verizon guys on a corner with no traffic. Nice guys at the MS store but they seem dejected.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    I wonder if it would be a good replacement for my inventory-pullers to reference products from? We have been trying to use a iPad Air for our peeps to walk around the warehouse with to wirelessly view product on the Mac servers for pulling product for next shoot. The iPad can connect to the servers OK but can't see psd's, only jpegs. It also is a little iffy with EXCEL.
    A little run-around S4 with just EXCEL and Bridge may be the solution we're looking for. OTOH, cross platform search engines are neutered in that they can not see metadata without serious gymnastics...sigh...MBA is probably our only solution

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    I really doubt the Atom can run C1Pro8. But there's only one way to find out.

    Thumbdrive with C1Pro installer on it. Go into Best Buy, install. Tether your IQ180 and see what happens. They won't mind at all.
    No need for a thumb drive, I installed C1 demo on a SP3 in Bestbuy over wifi
    worked like a charm.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    What's wrong with an 11" MacBook Air for field tethering? I ask because I genuinly have no idea. Whay's the advantage of a tablet in the field? If it's purely low bulk, wouldn't a small Air be a better alternative? Again, I've never been into tethering, so would be glad to hear why.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    What's wrong with an 11" MacBook Air for field tethering? I ask because I genuinly have no idea. Whay's the advantage of a tablet in the field? If it's purely low bulk, wouldn't a small Air be a better alternative? Again, I've never been into tethering, so would be glad to hear why.
    It's all about the form factor! A tablet is much easier to handle and requires less to support it in the field.

    Surface Pro is compact and easy to tether with USB3, powerful enough like a laptop, and the touch screen interface makes it a natural extension of the IQ/Credo interface.

    ken

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    What's wrong with an 11" MacBook Air for field tethering? I ask because I genuinly have no idea. Whay's the advantage of a tablet in the field? If it's purely low bulk, wouldn't a small Air be a better alternative? Again, I've never been into tethering, so would be glad to hear why.
    The i7 in the SP3 is also quite a bit more powerful than the new Macbook. I'm not sure even the Macbook will cut it for large files and tethered shooting.

    The SP3 i7 w/8GB is quite impressive for a 1.7lb tablet.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    No need for a thumb drive, I installed C1 demo on a SP3 in Bestbuy over wifi
    worked like a charm.
    Yes you are saying an "SP3" which is a Surface PRO 3, but this is the Surface 3, (note no 'Pro' in there) with an Atom processor rather than full Intel mobile processor - quite different proposition to run C1 on that.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    What's wrong with an 11" MacBook Air for field tethering? I ask because I genuinly have no idea. Whay's the advantage of a tablet in the field? If it's purely low bulk, wouldn't a small Air be a better alternative? Again, I've never been into tethering, so would be glad to hear why.
    Yeah, many people here own a Macbook Air, but went out and got an SP3 regardless - the whole tablet form and touchscreen (double tap to go 100% etc, just like on the back) works like a charm. In my (and many other folks here) opinion it is the better choice for this task, but of course, you may feel different.
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yes you are saying an "SP3" which is a Surface PRO 3, but this is the Surface 3, (note no 'Pro' in there) with an Atom processor rather than full Intel mobile processor - quite different proposition to run C1 on that.
    I realize that. What I was saying is that the new Macbook (12") and the NEW Surface 3 (not SP) will likely have a harder time with C1P. My reference to SP3 above was simply to state that I was able to install it on a demo machine at Best Buy.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    What's wrong with an 11" MacBook Air for field tethering? I ask because I genuinly have no idea. Whay's the advantage of a tablet in the field? If it's purely low bulk, wouldn't a small Air be a better alternative? Again, I've never been into tethering, so would be glad to hear why.
    I have used a 11" MacBook Air (i7, 1,7 GHz) for tethering to an Hasselblad H4D in the "field". I could not use a surface anyway, since Hasselblad uses firewire.
    It did work, but was not very convenient. The screen is very hard to read outside. The form factor is far from ideal, a tablet would indeed be easier. The system was a bit underpowered to run Phocus really smoothly.
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Thanks. I don't currently have any digital back, so was just interested in why people prefer the tablet over a small laptop / netbook. All makes sense now! I wonder if Apple will ever release a "pro" iPad with extra connections to compete in this segment?

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    A small laptop can work but I always found that I needed to use a hoodman laptop screen turret shade to be able to use it.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I wonder if Apple will ever release a "pro" iPad with extra connections to compete in this segment?
    Probably not. Apple has sold 200 millions iPads. They don't seem to be set up for a market of a few thousands machines at most. They even refused some applications designed for the special needs of the photographers who are not willing to use the iPad iPhoto subsystem. Apple appears to be only set up for a mass market of consumers and sees these mainly using the built-in camera and uploading everything to their cloud.

    Then there is the problem of firewire, which is quickly disappearing as an interface. I don't see anyone interested to manufacture a tablet with a firewire interface.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    But what about a beeted up iPad with Thuderbolt (which I presume one could make do with by using an adaptor like I use with my Flextight 969), or would the back also need to be powered by the tablet? I know Apple is a pedantic about apps, so perhaps it's just a silly question, but I would have though they needed to pay attention to professional imaging professionals. It's a status thing, and Apple stayed in business for a long time because of a solid professional user base.

    As a side note – and I know people have said WIFI connections are not so stable in the field – do Hasselblad or Phase allow for WIFI tethering of full resolution JPG or RAW files? I know this would be a lot slower than a hard wired connection, but such a feature would be useful in many situations.

    I'm asking all of these questions because I'm still torn between the CFV-50c and the H5D-50. The latter is more expensive, but I imagine I could forgo the liveview of the 50c for the option of using a modern SLR for times when a technical camera is not practical. The CCD chip produces great results –*it's not about file quality for me – but if I'm limited to GG focusing, it'd be good to be able to check for accurate focus on a tablet when in the field.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    Probably not. Apple has sold 200 millions iPads. They don't seem to be set up for a market of a few thousands machines at most. They even refused some applications designed for the special needs of the photographers who are not willing to use the iPad iPhoto subsystem. Apple appears to be only set up for a mass market of consumers and sees these mainly using the built-in camera and uploading everything to their cloud.

    Then there is the problem of firewire, which is quickly disappearing as an interface. I don't see anyone interested to manufacture a tablet with a firewire interface.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    But what about a beeted up iPad with Thuderbolt (which I presume one could make do with by using an adaptor like I use with my Flextight 969), or would the back also need to be powered by the tablet? I know Apple is a pedantic about apps, so perhaps it's just a silly question, but I would have though they needed to pay attention to professional imaging professionals. It's a status thing, and Apple stayed in business for a long time because of a solid professional user base.
    This would probably needs it own thread, but to answer your questions shortly:

    • An iPad with thunderbolt is very unlikely. Apple actually appears to be phasing out thunderbolt, which is absent from the "New Macbook" (the official name of the 12" retina macbook).
    • Power is not a real problem if one has the limited knowledge necessary to solder a cable with a battery connector.
    • It seems that Apple is not as much interested in the professional imaging business as they used to be. They appear to be abandoning that market to Adobe.


    That last point would easily fill a whole thread. I'll just say that the market for tablets is geared towards content consumer, be it games, magazine subscription or movies. It seems that Apple (and others) business model is to sell a 300€ tablet and another 300€ of apps and subscriptions over its lifespan. Professional users have no space in that model.

    As a side note – and I know people have said WIFI connections are not so stable in the field – do Hasselblad or Phase allow for WIFI tethering of full resolution JPG or RAW files? I know this would be a lot slower than a hard wired connection, but such a feature would be useful in many situations.
    I think that is the idea behind the wifi enabled versions of the backs.

    I'm asking all of these questions because I'm still torn between the CFV-50c and the H5D-50. The latter is more expensive, but I imagine I could forgo the liveview of the 50c for the option of using a modern SLR for times when a technical camera is not practical. The CCD chip produces great results –*it's not about file quality for me – but if I'm limited to GG focusing, it'd be good to be able to check for accurate focus on a tablet when in the field.
    What I use for that is either
    • the Macbook air and tethering via thunderbolt-firewire (you can even use some sort of liveview then) or
    • use a SD card to CF interface in the back and use the SD card reader on the iPad.


    Alternatively, one could do something similar on android by installing alternative software. I am enquiring about that at the moment.
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    ....

    As a side note – and I know people have said WIFI connections are not so stable in the field – do Hasselblad or Phase allow for WIFI tethering of full resolution JPG or RAW files?....
    Just a side note on tethering with the Surface Pro versus WiFi solutions:

    The Surface Pro runs a full version of Capture One Pro 8, fully tethered, which means being able to view full resolution RAW files at 100% at a double-tap, or up to 400%. Try that with a WiFi jpeg and meet instant Surface Pro envy....

    No comparison in terms of performance abilities (without potential WiFi *ahem* issues). I think of it as a "super-extension" of the MFDB screen, but add better 100% Zooming for middle aged eyes. Great Loupe Tool and simply drag with a finger to position over the image, Focus Mask, highlight/shadow sliders approach to check details, and even Live View (vari-ND approach best) with new multiple focus points. All the tools of C1 Pro 8 at at your disposal in the field.

    But you do need a USB3 enabled MFDB. I'm not familiar with Phocus' capabilities, but without USB3, venerable H missed the party!

    The biggest challenge imho is glare, a difficulty facing any device with a monitor in the field. If anyone discovers a custom fit Surface Pro "hood" that is portable or folds flat----make sure to share it on the Surface Pro thread! http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...edo-mfdbs.html

    ken

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    If you want a Firewire tethering tablet for a Hassy back, a good option is the ~5 years old Fujitsu Lifebook series machines, that have a built in mini-Firewire port (same as full size port, but no charging) and very decent Core 2 Duo processors, etc.

    I used the Fujitsu Lifebook T5010 for C1 tethering in the field when Firewire was the only option on Phase backs. It has a touch screen which folds back completely on itself converting into a tablet form, with Pen interface, full windows, and does everything a Surface Pro does, but in a bigger & heavier form. They were $2500+ new, but unbelievably around $100 used on eBay now (!) though make sure you get a good working one.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    A couple of people have asked about using mini firewire ports on the Fujitsu convertibles. I simply bought a mini firewire 400 to full size firewire 400 cable on NewEgg, for about $10. Power for my Phase back came from the battery, as you cannot charge through mini f/w. I presume Hassy has some autonomous power option of its own, outside of firewire power, so you'd use that.

    The Fujitsu convertibles are excellent machines, but I can only say for sure that the T5010 has firewire built in, which worked perfectly with my IQ180. Later models are a bit lighter and have full touchscreens (rather than just pen) but I'm not sure they have a firewire port still, so double check that. Do note it is more than double the weight of a Surface Pro 3, but is a great option otherwise, especially if you need firewire tethering. I still have mine.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Thanks. I think I'll get a Fujitsu soon.

    Kumar

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    I presume Hassy has some autonomous power option of its own, outside of firewire power, so you'd use that.
    Only on the H5D series and H4D-60. For the others, a firewire power injector and battery must be used (or a powered hub, which does the same thing).

    The miniplug is also limited to 400 MB/s, while the camera can run at double that speed.

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Ok, well if it must be full size IEEE 1394 Firewire for Hassy backs, then there is a PCMCIA card slot, which you can fill with a full size Firewire adapter card:

    from the spec sheet of T5010:


    Ports:
    One 15-pin D-SUB connector for VGA external monitor
    Three USB 2.1 (Universal Serial Bus) connectors for input/output devices
    One DC In connector
    One IEEE 1394 (4-pin type) jack
    One LAN (RJ-45) connector
    One modem (RJ-11) connector (on select configurations)
    Docking port (100-pin, to dock with port replicator)
    One stereo headphone jack
    One stereo microphone/line-in jack

    Card Slots:
    PCMCIA Card slot for one Type I or Type II card
    Memory Stick/SD Card slot
    Dedicated Smart Card slot (requires third-party application) FIPS-201 Approved


    There are many such cards on Amazon or NewEgg or eBay, etc:

    BYTECC Model FW-PCMCIA-2 PCI to 1394 Card Add-On Card - Newegg.com

    Wa-La, you have a touchscreen tablet with full firewire good for Hassy, etc. for about $200!
    Good luck!

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Surface Pro 3 - $200 off at Costco

    What it includes:
    • Surface Pro 31 – Intel® Core™ i7 Processor, 256GB storage2 with 8GB RAM
    • Windows 8.1 Pro
    • Surface Pen – for the best writing and drawing experience on a tablet
    • Surface Pro Type Cover (black) – designed exclusively for Surface Pro 3, the revolutionary click-in keyboard also protects
    your display
    • Office 365 Personal – a 1 year subscription3 to the latest versions of the best-in-class applications that you know and love
    like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote
    • Surface Pro Screen Protector – made with tempered glass to offer premium scratch and chip protection for your Surface Pro 3
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Anything new from the Surface 3 'normal'? Have seen, that it's avaible soon. Still intersted if it will work as the Pro.
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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Last time I checked it runs the atom processor, which is not really going to work well with applications like C1, and tethering. Also what is the max ram? I thought it was only 4GB, which I also don't think will work well with C1 and tethering. It's priced right for sure at somewhere near 400.00

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Best bet if you want to tether with a Surface Pro "on the cheap"---is be on the lookout for a SP2 Pro or SP3 Pro when the new SP4 Pro is released later this year.

    If Guy Mancuso had a Surface Pro---that's the first place to check. Second runner-up, I'd check with Don Libby.

    You definitely want Core i5 processor or better and 8GB of RAM to tether and run C1 Pro 8.

    Btw, I'm working on what I think will be the last generation of new and improved clamping options for tethering with the Surface Pro. More to follow.

    ken

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    Re: Lower Priced 'Surface 3' announced with full Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Best bet if you want to tether with a Surface Pro "on the cheap"---is be on the lookout for a SP2 Pro or SP3 Pro when the new SP4 Pro is released later this year.

    If Guy Mancuso had a Surface Pro---that's the first place to check. Second runner-up, I'd check with Don Libby.

    You definitely want Core i5 processor or better and 8GB of RAM to tether and run C1 Pro 8.

    Btw, I'm working on what I think will be the last generation of new and improved clamping options for tethering with the Surface Pro. More to follow.

    ken
    I've been running Surface Pro 2 then Surface Pro 3 i5 256. What is the battery life differences as well as fairly intensive work speed between Pro 3 i5 vs. I7 when running applications like C1 or current Photoshop? It's these two parameters (just an approximation) that interests me the most between the two processors in the Pro3. Thanks.

    Dave (D&A)

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