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Thread: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

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    Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    I'm considering upgrading to an H4D50 or H5D50, and before I do, I'd like to make sure it works well with my tech-camera setup (Alpa with Schneider 35mm Digitar and Rodenstock 55mm).

    I'd love to stop by and just take a few quick shots. Feel free to PM or email me: [email protected].

    thanks
    ethan

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    I'm going to be in LA all next week and can bring any Phase/Leaf digital back you'd like to try.

    The interface and features on the Team Phase One Credo, IQ and IQ2 backs are of huge benefit on a tech camera and Phase One's implementation of LCC correction in C1 is class leading.

    Even if you're considering the H4D-50 or H5D-50 I think it makes sense to try the alternatives before you pull the trigger.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Haha, classic reply.

    The H4/5D 50 CCD sensor is brilliant on a technical camera and certainly far more forgiving of movements than the Delsa 60mpx sensor.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Ethan
    A H4D50 and H5D 50 are way more suitable for use with Schneider wide angles (mainly the 28 and 35mm lenses) than the Dalsa chip backs (including the H4D/H5D60) where widely reported issues show up. More of an issue if you use shift but if you use a view camera than you do likely use shift. I have shot on the H4D 50 with no issues. Anders Torger wrote a few posts on the his experiences with the H4D50. The H5D50 is better weather sealed. The H4D50 has the same sensor, same screen, same iso and max exposure time. You can use a quantum battery to power it if you have one or can get your hands on one and it's cheaper.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    If it's the same chip as in the CFV-50 (Kodak KAF-51000), then it is currently the highest MP sensor available that will behave well (= large shifts) with all lenses, such as your 35mm Digitar.

    Anders Torger has written a lot of useful stuff about this chip, like this thread for instance.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    If it's the same chip as in the CFV-50 (Kodak KAF-51000), then it is currently the highest MP sensor available that will behave well (= large shifts) with all lenses, such as your 35mm Digitar.

    Anders Torger has written a lot of useful stuff about this chip, like this thread for instance.
    I don't agree with the sentiment of this statement. The Dalsa 60mp sensors will do very well with a 35XL over the range of movement where sharp results are given. Issues are in the area of the image circle which aren't sharp. Maybe for some specific compositions (e.g. strong rise into a blue featureless sky where detail/sharpness is irrelevant) this is an issue, but

    As is obvious when you look through the tech cam picture threads the 32HR and 40HR are popular as replacements for the 35XL precisely because the 35CL isn't sharp (for high res shooting) with strong movement. Once you start doing direct comparisons instead of trusting Schneider's image-circle specifications (which are hopelessly optimistic) vs Rodenstocks (which are mildly conservative) and you add in Capture One's built-in distortion correction for the 40HR you'll see why that lens has become very popular.

    Regardless, even with a 35XL I think the IQ160 or Credo 40 are best-in-class for overall pros/cons.

    Perhaps Ethan will take me up on my offer and Steve's offer and he can post his findings comparing these options head-to-head.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    How well will that 60MP chip do when shifted 20mm on, say, S/K's 28mm Super-Digitar? As well as the Kodak? Nope.

    However, it's newer tech, so there will be other (non-large-shifting) shooting situations where it performs better. That's only to be expected.

    So, the Kodak chip is the highest MP sensor currently available that will behave well with all lenses ... and, since the thinking behind DB production seems to be performance on SLR-style bodies, I suspect this is going to remain true for some time to come.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    How well will that 60MP chip do when shifted 20mm on, say, S/K's 28mm Super-Digitar? As well as the Kodak? Nope.
    Even Schneider's optimistic image circle is stated 90mm which would limit full-frame backs to 15mm of rise and 1.1 crop backs to 17mm of rise (the smaller sensor needs more rise to see the same part of the lens). You can do this using our tech camera visualizer.

    Here is Guys' test showing an IQ160 performing well at 12mm of rise. I don't have the test files I shot with it, but my recollection is the 60mp Phase One backs performed well with a 28XL up to the point where the lens quality quality was degrading anyway.

    The Dalsa 60mp sensor is larger than the Kodak 50mp so 12mm of rise on the IQ160 is about the same as 14mm.

    Maybe you're thinking of the 80mp Dalsa sensor? For sure with that back the results with the Schneider 28XL are very poor; barely acceptable unshifted and unacceptable when shifted. The 60mp Dalsa is significantly more accommodating.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    I played with the IQ160, the H4d60 and the H4D50. There is definitely stronger colour cast on the IQ160, (and the the H4d60) with the Schneider wide angles than with the H4D50 when using a lot of shift. The IQ180/280 is worse again. There are also issues with the Sony sensor backs. I would recommend you read Anders' posts.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    I played with the IQ160, the H4d60 and the H4D50. There is definitely stronger colour cast on the IQ160, (and the the H4d60) with the Schneider wide angles than with the H4D50 when using a lot of shift. The IQ180/280 is worse again. There are also issues with the Sony sensor backs. I would recommend you read Anders' posts.
    There is more color cast before LCC. With the 60mp, after LCC, the final image is excellent in the situations I've outlined before.

    With the 80mp and wide angle Schneiders the amount of color cast can be a problem even for the final image after LCC, but that is a different sensor.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Dough, the OP asked about Hasselblad products. Can you please have the courtesy to stop the sales pitch?

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Dough, the OP asked about Hasselblad products. Can you please have the courtesy to stop the sales pitch?
    Ethan, the OP, does not seem to have been offended?

    from LL... Doug Peterson and Steve Goldsmith, I appreciate your chiming in. I'll email with you directly.
    If someone is asking about trying a Phase system and you're going to be nearby and have a comparable Hassy system to contribute to their evaluation I would not only be un-offended if you offered to meet with them, but I would openly hope for it. Anytime you're spending 5 or 6 digits you should spend at least a few minutes with each of the relevant options.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    How about all the rest of us being offended?

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    I played with the IQ160, the H4d60 and the H4D50. There is definitely stronger colour cast on the IQ160, (and the the H4d60) with the Schneider wide angles than with the H4D50 when using a lot of shift. The IQ180/280 is worse again. There are also issues with the Sony sensor backs. I would recommend you read Anders' posts.

    Thanks, Enda. I am indeed shifting (Alpa SWA, previously with Arca Swiss 69FC). I've read Anders's posts and corresponded with him directly, and I'm keeping an open mind about all theses issues.

    As for power, I've been using an ImageBank II. Any idea if that works on an h4d50?

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by epforever View Post
    As for power, I've been using an ImageBank II. Any idea if that works on an h4d50?
    For power, most probably since this is simply firewire bus power. But if you can afford the H5D, that camera can use an adapter for batteries, which is more convenient.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Hi Ethan
    My only experiences with the image bank were very negative. I bought one when I bought my hassie. First shoot - all the images were lost and corrupted. They couldn't be recovered. An entire day's commercial photography gone. Had to explain that to the client and go back and shoot. I looked like an idiot. I got another image bank and it didn't work either. My relationship with image banks ceased on that day! If you go for the H5D as Jerome suggested the adaptor is your best bet. Can't say for sure if there are issues with the image bank and the H4D (or H5D) I just love the Quantum cos it's like the Duracell bunny. It lasts forever

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Ethan,

    The H4D-60 & the H5D series cameras can use the following item for power on a technical camera.

    BATTERY ADAPTER FOR H5D AND H4D 60

    Item Nr: H-3053310 - See more at: BATTERY ADAPTER FOR H5D AND H4D 60


    Steve Goldsmith Regional Sales Manager – Central Region Hasselblad Bron, Inc.
    1080A Garden State Road Union, NJ 07083, USA
    mobile 847-722-3397 | eFax 509-275-6968
    [email protected] | Hasselblad Bron Inc.
    Last edited by SteveG; 13th May 2015 at 19:40. Reason: adding signature

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    I welcome Doug's offer to try medium format systems; I would in fact be interested in trying out an Alpa camera with a few wide angle lenses.
    Thanks Doug!

    John

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveG View Post
    Ethan,

    The H4D-60 & the H5D series cameras can use the following item for power on a technical camera.

    BATTERY ADAPTER FOR H5D AND H4D 60

    Item Nr: H-3053310 - See more at: BATTERY ADAPTER FOR H5D AND H4D 60


    Steve Goldsmith Regional Sales Manager Central Region Hasselblad Bron, Inc.
    1080A Garden State Road Union, NJ 07083, USA
    mobile 847-722-3397 | eFax 509-275-6968
    [email protected] | Hasselblad Bron Inc.
    That's one very expensive piece of plastic!
    www.endacavanagh.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Other thing to consider is how much you will use the SLR body. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but for the times I rented I found the H body excellent (at least for a DMF SLR) and the Phamia body below average. (ergonomics, reliability, responsiveness.)

    I guess you may also have a case of H glass if you're upgrading? It's a hard pill to swallow when jumping ship requires you take a hit on glass as well as body and mount.

    One thing I will say though, I would find it a little tedious having to power an H4 back with an external battery via the firewire port. I know Silvestri and Quantim make good or ok products, but it seems like a cludge to me. The H5D-50 is well discounted at the moment and, at least where I live, nearly half the price of the H5D-60. I'd go this way if I were buying new.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Other thing to consider is how much you will use the SLR body. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but for the times I rented I found the H body excellent (at least for a DMF SLR) and the Phamia body below average. (ergonomics, reliability, responsiveness.)

    I guess you may also have a case of H glass if you're upgrading? It's a hard pill to swallow when jumping ship requires you take a hit on glass as well as body and mount.

    One thing I will say though, I would find it a little tedious having to power an H4 back with an external battery via the firewire port. I know Silvestri and Quantim make good or ok products, but it seems like a cludge to me. The H5D-50 is well discounted at the moment and, at least where I live, nearly half the price of the H5D-60. I'd go this way if I were buying new.
    I use the SLR body a ton. It's my bread and butter. I've been using the H3DII-39 for years and have been very happy with it. And with a quick mirror lockup, it's as hand-holdable at slow shutter speeds as th alpa SWA. (just a lot bigger and heavier.) Yep, lots of H glass. If I went the Phase back route, I'd likely stick with an H4x or H5x.

    I agree that powering the back with an external battery is cumbersome, but the ImageBank II has been reliable and quite portable. Obviously the H5D series is preferable, but is it worth paying an extra $5-6k to not need an external battery on a tech camera? I'm a working professional, and I have higher priorities for that 5-6k. Marketing, testing, retirement planning, home repairs, buying the parcel of land cross the street, possibly a kid.
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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    I recently purchase a Hasselblad H4D-50 and a Sinar P2 with no digitar lenses. Even with olders lens, this back is capable to render extremely high quality images, with a lot of moviments. No, I don't have any of the super wide angle lenses, but all I can say is that it's a really good digital back.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by epforever View Post
    I use the SLR body a ton. It's my bread and butter. I've been using the H3DII-39 for years and have been very happy with it. And with a quick mirror lockup, it's as hand-holdable at slow shutter speeds as th alpa SWA. (just a lot bigger and heavier.) Yep, lots of H glass. If I went the Phase back route, I'd likely stick with an H4x or H5x.

    I agree that powering the back with an external battery is cumbersome, but the ImageBank II has been reliable and quite portable. Obviously the H5D series is preferable, but is it worth paying an extra $5-6k to not need an external battery on a tech camera? I'm a working professional, and I have higher priorities for that 5-6k. Marketing, testing, retirement planning, home repairs, buying the parcel of land cross the street, possibly a kid.
    I don't think you can buy a kid for $5-6k. I mean, I haven't priced one out, but that seems low unless you're planning to go for an older model with an extensive juvenile record.

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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Quote Originally Posted by freaklikeme View Post
    I don't think you can buy a kid for $5-6k. I mean, I haven't priced one out, but that seems low unless you're planning to go for an older model with an extensive juvenile record.
    Yeah, you may be right. It really depends on the usage, the duration, and the number of kids to be delivered.
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    Re: Anyone in Los Angeles / S. Calif. with an H4D50 or H5D50?

    Any updates or decisions?

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