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Thread: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    So my Silvestri Bicam arrived with the above lens and, guess what, it seems disappointing. I didn't get time to take a lot of shots but at F11 it clearly has less detail and sharpness across the frame than my Mamy 28 at the same aperture

    Am I doing something wrong? I thought the optimal aperture fir these things was F8 thru 11?

    Or is it the curse of tashley?

    :-(

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    I know on the Alpa TC it came with spacers for the back if it needed that certain adjustment. I would do some testing on a known distance and see if the back has the correct spacing to the mount on the body. If it is off by a even small amount than it will be obvious
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    While I can’t speak about either the Silvestri or Alpa I can with the Cambo RS. I’ve been using F/8 – F/11 with my 35mm with great success. Agree with Guy re the spacing between lens and back.

    don
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  4. #4
    Piet Gispen
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    I have been using my Schneider Digitar 35mm wih great results on my Cambo Wide DS with the P45+ at f8 through f16 ( simplyhaven't tried other apertures as yet). Results are nothing less than stunning.

    Regards,

    Piet Gispen
    http://www.pietgispen.com

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    F11 on my Alpa is the bee's knees. If you arent happy as Guy suggets you probably need to have the back calibrated to the camera. Alpa supplies these spacers - I have never needed to use them on my bodies. You get what you pay for.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    You get what you pay for.
    That's what I thought when I paid $11,500 for the setup (excluding the back)...

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    f8-11 worked well for me. I tried f16 and at a 1/250 there is considerable detail in 100% didn't see any diffraction but maybe it was my eyes!

    :-)

    Victor

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    That's what I thought when I paid $11,500 for the setup (excluding the back)...

    Getting movements using a tiny light capture surface - is a lot trickier than people would have you believe - irrespective of $'s spent. Maybe you have a bad copy of a lens - maybe your cam needs dialling in..I understand your frustration.

    the more 'perfect' the capturing medium - the more obvious that flaws in the whole workflow (starting with hardware ) become. I was very disappointed with the Canon 1dsmk11 when I uprgaded from teh 1dsmk1 - then I realised that it required a much closer attention to shooting technique.

    @ 30 + megapixels - this stuff is critical though admittedly not particulalrly sexy. -

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    I've done some further investigations and worked out that the lens is back-focussing at all distances... but if I set it at F 11 and the distance scale at 5 metres I get good infinity focus. My dealer is talking to Silvestri and we'll see what form of shimming or shaving is required... but at least now I have some frames that sho what the setup will be able to do when properly calibrated...

    Peter: you're right. When I read widely that digital MF was now about as good quality wise as optimally scanned 4x5 film I sold my field camera straight away and ploughed vast sums into the Brave New World but people do need to understand what I didn't know at the time: that this area of photography is nowhere near as well-sorted or 'cookie-cutter' as DSLR photography.

    On the bright side, once one has fought through the various thorny thickets one will have a clear advantage over the rest of the world... I hope...

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    how are you judging focus when shooting?

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Of all things... Tim, I think you should take up stamp-collecting or something.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim,
    Next time I buy a car, I will take you along and have you select one.
    I will then buy another.
    Where can this man go to get treatment for this? The pyramids obviously did not help.
    -bob

  13. #13
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Well, there used to be a system- you slapped one of their lenses on, put on a digital back or even a film back, then it did AF and AE... with P45+ (and recently P65+) seemed pretty sharp across the frame... lots of lenses, no shimming..

    It was called Cont... something

    :-)

    Victor

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I've done some further investigations and worked out that the lens is back-focussing at all distances... but if I set it at F 11 and the distance scale at 5 metres I get good infinity focus. My dealer is talking to Silvestri and we'll see what form of shimming or shaving is required... but at least now I have some frames that sho what the setup will be able to do when properly calibrated...

    Peter: you're right. When I read widely that digital MF was now about as good quality wise as optimally scanned 4x5 film I sold my field camera straight away and ploughed vast sums into the Brave New World but people do need to understand what I didn't know at the time: that this area of photography is nowhere near as well-sorted or 'cookie-cutter' as DSLR photography.

    On the bright side, once one has fought through the various thorny thickets one will have a clear advantage over the rest of the world... I hope...

    I have had some quality control issues when trying to mount and shoot sharp images on Silvestri View cameras. I had 2 customers buy this setup with the Silvestri sliding back direct from Italy and we found the focus to be off by a large degree. We started our inquiry with Silvestri. They told us they had never tested the sliding backs they were building with digital backs because they did not have any at the factory. At the time we were able to get a local P1 guy in Europe to drop off a camera at the factory. They found a wrong measurement to the film plane. We have seen the same fro other sliding back vendors but they have all solved their focus issues.

    I think that they have a neat camera design and I have always like the tilt adapter except it does not work with wider angle lenses.

    First lets assume that your film plane is not par focal with the back which means what you focus on is not in focus when captured. One way is to shim the adapter to move the film plane. The other is to go back to the manufacture and get them to make a change in the depth of the adapter which changes the film plane. This is the best choice.

    I would first do a focus test with that lens on a piece of newspaper to check to see if it is par focal. You could do this at 5 ft and also at infinity since it sounds like you want to use wide angle lenses. If those test work okay I would also check the back against a second back to see if you get the same results. I think this can confirm that your back is in the correct plane. I have found only a few out of 500 over the last 10 years at P1 that were off.

    Good Luck,



    Chris Snipes
    Phase One Reseller
    Phase One Test Studio

    www.imageproduction.com
    [email protected]

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    I have had no problems with two copies of Alpa 'chunks of aluminium" and three phase backs.. two schneider lenses; infinity and even 'scale focus' worked reasonably well.

    As Peter said, I guess you get what you pay for...

    Victor

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    I have a client who has the Flexicam and uses it with the Rodenstock 45mm,55mm and 65mm focal lengths and has not complained about the focus at all. He also uses the same lenses on his P3. BTW he is using a p45+ currently.

    We all have been aware for sometime that the Schneider 35mm/24mm are a bear to focus on technical camera systems especially ones with a sliding backs. Have you noticed that ALPA, Cambo, etc. have not introduced a sliding back for their wide angle solutions (or any for that matter?). Tolerances are very tight with the wide angle lenses.

    I remember when it first came on the market I had a few clients attempt to use it with the most accurate view cameras on the market and wound up switching to either the Cambo and or ALPA wide angle solutions because they worked.

    Maybe you want to try a lens that is a little longer in focal length like a 45mm or 47mm and utilize stitching for a wider angle of view.

    Lance
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim, you are clearly cursed...

    FWIW, focus with a view cam on medium format is HYPER critical, more so than with 4x5 and larger formats, and more so with digital than film as the digital sensor has no depth and film does. The slightest mis-focus with your MF digital back and your image will be soft, period. If you are using a sliding back with Ground Glass (GG) to focus, I suggest at minimum a 10x loupe to confirm focus, and even then if you are off by even a fraction of a mm it will alter your PoF in the image by several meters.

    As an example, a 210mm lens at f16 PoF will move from 10 meters to over 100 meters if you move the focusing stage 0.5mm! Obviously, the effect becomes more critical as you go shorter in lens focal, and the same 0.5mm focus error with a 35mm lens would take focus totally out of the image...

    Best test is an image with lots of depth so you can see the point you focused on versus where you actually landed, and that assumes you actually landed somewhere in that range, which is NOT necessarily a foregone conclusion.

    Best,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    I'm not a big fan of the sliding backs myself . i would rather have a removable ground glass.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    how are you judging focus when shooting?
    1) By loupe on ground glass
    2) By tape measure
    3) By knowing that a building which is four miles away is for all practical purposes at infinity for a 35mm lens at F11....

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Of all things... Tim, I think you should take up stamp-collecting or something.
    Do you want me to ruin the world's entire stock of stamps?

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Tim,
    Next time I buy a car, I will take you along and have you select one.
    I will then buy another.
    Where can this man go to get treatment for this? The pyramids obviously did not help.
    -bob
    I've had a lot of trouble with my car lately as well. Hmmm....

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Update: Silvestri Response

    I sent the following to my dealer and the reply was as then follows:

    MY EMAIL
    I've done a series of tests and I think I was right in my initial impression: the setup as it stands is backfocussing. So if I take a shot at a subject distance of 1.5 metres focussed using the glass screen, the place of focus falls a few inches further away than the point on which I focus. If I then use a tape measure and set focus using that method, the same thing happens.

    If I point the camera out the window and focus using the glass screen on buildings in the middle and far distance, the image is blurred at ALL distances even at F8 thru 16.

    If I then set focus at infinity, everything is unsharp but if I pull focus forward to between infinity and 5 metres, things improve and if I set the distance at five metres, I get correct infinity focus and the whole frame looks pretty decent too.

    So presumably the lens mount needs shimming or shaving?


    ANSWER FROM SILVESTRI (via my dealer)

    This 35XL lens was collimated for a Bicam that had a measure of 12,8mm, so a little lower respect to the theoretical measure of 12,95mm. Mounting the lens on a different body, the lens cannot reach the infinite measure.
    It is easy to set:
    1) place the helical focus mount on infinite.
    2) unscrew of 1 turn the three radial screws placed on the circular scale of the helicoide.
    3) force the rotation of the helicoide over the infinite acting on the rubber piece.
    4) at the same time, check the focus to infinite on the ground glass.
    5) when the image is sharp, screw back the radial screws.

    In case you go over the infinite position make the following operation:

    1) stop on the position where there is focus to infinite after having partially unscrewed the screws.
    2) keeping the helicoide rubber piece steady, rotate the meter scale until making the infinite mark collimate with the reference mark.
    3) screw the screws back in.

    Attention:
    the distances we are talking about are in the measures of 1/10 of millimeter so the movements has to be made carefully. This lens in particular is very sensibal to the focusing distance so just a few 1/100s of millimeter are sufficient to go out og collimation.
    ____________________

    Now I have to things to wonder about:
    1) I am finding that the lens is focussing PAST infinity when set at infinity or when focussed on very distant objects using the loupe. However, the Silvestri guys say 'Mounting the lens on a different body, the lens cannot reach the infinite measure.' So what do I make of that? Wait for a week or two while the whole lot goes back to Italy ( I am SO not going to do this myself... not unless they pay me a salary!) only to discover that the bad 'collimation' is not the only problem?
    2) Should I just give in and get a Cambo or Alpa or, finally, admit that the Gods of Medium Format Digital really don't like me and buy a Nikon D3X?

    Just to make all this even more fun, my Phamiya body went off to Denmark for FW yesterday, so convinced was I that this new setup would work out of the box.

    I really am stupid, aren't I?


  23. #23
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I've had a lot of trouble with my car lately as well. Hmmm....
    get a horse

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    1) By loupe on ground glass
    2) By tape measure
    3) By knowing that a building which is four miles away is for all practical purposes at infinity for a 35mm lens at F11....
    Tim:

    1) Except with view lenses, infinity at the stop is usually BEYOND infinity and not actual infinity and therefore inaccurate, and measured focus as marked on the lens or camera scales is genreally NOT accurate since the lenses all have varying degrees of back-focus depending on which system they are mounted on...

    2) What power is your loupe, and did you check it for PERFECT diopter adjustment for YOUR eyes before use?

    3) In short, you need to understand you will never get to perfect focus with that system regardless, the best you can hope for is very close to perfect and then rely on aperture to take care of the rest.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Tim:

    1) Except with view lenses, infinity at the stop is usually BEYOND infinity and not actual infinity and therefore inaccurate, and measured focus as marked on the lens or camera scales is genreally NOT accurate since the lenses all have varying degrees of back-focus depending on which system they are mounted on...

    2) What power is your loupe, and did you check it for PERFECT diopter adjustment for YOUR eyes before use

    3) In short, you need to understand you will never get to perfect focus with that system regardless, the best you can hope for is very close to perfect and then rely on aperture to take care of the rest.

    Cheers,
    Thanks Jack. I kinda know most of that. Trust me, this setup was so obviously of of whack that the niceties were superfluous and in any event Silvestri have confirmed that this pens was collimated for a different body and is indeed therefore in need of treatment!

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim,

    I really do find it curious that virtually EVERY piece of kit you have obtained over the past 6 months is so severely out of whack. It is so statistically odd, there has to be a geographical connection -- like perhaps your delivery people slam your stuff around significantly and purposefully before delivering it...
    Jack
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    may be this is slipping through the cracks, but when I use a technical camera, the tape measure/distance settings are lowest in value; next is the loupe/ground glass (which is subject to variation between ground glass plane and DB focal plane), finally, the only absolutely accurate method is the image on a tethered computer. It is pushing the envelope to demand "tethered" accuracy from the other methods

    i wouldn't fault the lens; instead the register between gglass and DB, both in terms of absolute postioning and repeatability.

  28. #28
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim

    Do me a huge favor and please give me advance warning before you set foot in Arizona or fly over for that matter!

    I think Jack has something ... I'm on very good terms with my UPS, FedEx and DHL delivery persons.

    I really mean this when I say I wish you the best of luck in 2009 - hell is has to be better than 2008.

    don
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    I agree and i would test this all out on a tethered laptop and see if the slide focusing is off or the back distance is off. My bet is that slide adapter going from focusing to back is off. There is nothing wrong with that lens is my bet but the distance between that slide adapter. Frankly that part of the system i would send back. Get laser distance finder and half the battle is over. Also i would test just the back attached and measure 10 ft on the lens and see if the numbers match up using the tethered setup.

    Frankly and i mean this very politely . No one has this much ****ty luck
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  30. #30
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Thanks guys,

    I suspect that more people have these sorts of outcomes than we might comfortably admit. It's my training since I first entered Leica World that if you want great results you have to accept that the gear is very finely calibrated and that you therefore have to test everything you buy, rigourously and immediately. I always do this and I always find the 'issues' straight away as a result but I know that most people have a different approach and that's fine. Strokes for folks.

    But I do also know from the good ol' bad ol' days when I first found that many Leica M 35mm lenses suffer focus shift that some people at least (blushes will here be spared) assured me that their lenses were perfect and it later turned out that they really weren't. In the meantime, every time a new piece of not quite calibrated gear arrives and I post it, any number of well-meaning folks will question my test methodology, experience, eyesight, whatever and in fact these are not at issue. I have an email from Silvestri clearly stating that this lens was calibrated for a different body and back and will not work on mine without adjustment. That really is the end of the story.

    Silvestri don't do shimming, as it turns out. They keep a unique serial number record of every bit of kit they sell and each bit is calibrated to work with certain specific others. Somehow my lens and slider and body got separated in the wash and do not belong to each other.

    As for how much bad luck I have... well, who knows. My dealer doesn't seem to slam stuff around and I sure don't do so myself. Sometimes a bad run occurs statistically. Maybe Karma owes me a poke in the eye. But as I see it, this stuff is extremely temperamental, and prone to misalignments and over optimistic designs based on engineering concepts not full evolved from film to digital. And then there's me, testing, comparing, questioning and wanting stellar results because I have seen that this gear can produce them when set up properly.

    If you ask me it's not bad luck: it's the way this product works if you look at it really carefully. Boring but true. But like I observed earlier, you can't just buy perfect image making technology - you have to work at it too. And that narrows the base of people who will achieve it.

    No bad, eh?

  31. #31
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    If you ask me it's not bad luck: it's the way this product works if you look at it really carefully. Boring but true.
    No offense, but I disagree. I got a Mamiya 80D that worked perfectly right out of the gate, and still does. I got a Mamiya 150D that worked perfectly out of the gate and still does. I bought second hand 35, 55, and 300 lenses, and they are all very sharp, and focus properly and evenly across the frame. This is not saying all Mamiya lenses are good, but I think it lends that many are good out of the box and it would be unlucky to get several in a row that were not...

    On M lenses, I test too and I would agree that about 50% of the used copies are out of calibration and need adjustment, but every new one I've ever purchased was spot on. But then in fairness, the M body has a far more complex mechanical relationship with its lenses than does the Mamiya or the simpler Silvestri.

    Which brings me to your Silvestri. You say the lens is set up for a different body -- but I'd suggest that's almost irrelevant. If it was in focus on the GG, it should be in focus on the back if the sliding back is assembled properly, and if it's new, it should be perfect. And then, focus should be spot on regardless of what the distance markings say. The markings, it could be argued, are in fact are irrelevant unless you plan on using them for precise focus, which is a method virtually nobody wanting the precision you are after would use, right?

    Which brings me back to my original assertion -- I think you have been incredibly unlucky with your gear, at least as it respects this particular Mamiya, Phase and now Silvestri purchase.

    I sincerely hope things get better soon -- you are clearly due for some good luck ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    tashley may be incredibly 'unlucky' Jack, and for sure it sometimes reads like that - - however I would like to say that the threads are very useful for people who may be considering this or that or the other thing.

    for example tashley - I'd lbe interested in your thinking rationale behind your Silvestri purchase decision. I am ssuming you checked out the various alternative offerings from Rollie ( xact) Linhof, Arca Swiss and Sinar?

    It seems the bucks you paid pretty much allowed for any of these alternatives to be seriously considered - so why the Silvestri?


    Pete

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    My oh my....

    Tim,

    Seems like your luck is not the best but then you seem to have fallen into a pool full of very snarky sharks. I have been reading the responses with some interest that has changed to trepidation as the thread has steadily gone from moderately bad to worse.

    While this site has maintained a very even tone since its inception it seems to have taken a bit of a turn to the dark side. I apologize to anyone who may be offended by my comments but I feel that Tim has taken a fair share of hits, not altogether unwarranted but still out of character for the forum.

    As I mentioned in a previous thread I found that the calibration system for Alpa backs could be a little suspect for the digital backs and MF lenses. I presently have an Alpa Rodenstock Apo Grandagon that is not focused correctly with regards to the scale on the lens...rather than messing with shims I have "self-calibrated" then lens/back combo and will check my next lens for variance. If both are at the same distance error on the scale the shim makes sense...if not then I will recall both of the lens variances and use them respectively. Alpa themselves recommend not shimming the 35 and 24 XL lenses on their FAQ concerning shimming backs.

    So now that you have the Silvestri why not make it work...Lens Align or set out a few targets at variable distances and measure the distance and scale variances for differing F stops...you will most probably find that the lens is exceedingly sharp at a very small circle of sharpness ... much smaller than you expect. The scale will be off consistently in that if 1 meter on the scale equals 6 feet then 2 meter will equal 12 feet etc. Use this information to make pictures. The lines on the lens are arbitrary and although it would be great if they matched your lens you can rescale it in your head. I am suprised that Silvestri does not offer shims...why do you think Alpa does? Because not everthing works like it should in the real world.

    Tim, your bad luck is related in part to your expectations which may be a little high with regards to scale focused cameras. Why do you think Guy walked from his Alpa TC? As a pro he did not want to play the is it focused or not game. Great pics but with the AF of the Mamiya Leaf or H2 H3 you do not play that game...take the shot sink the ball move on. When you take a shot why not bracket the focus...not like you need to conserve film. Import the captures and pick the best one...make do with the hand you have been played. I would recommend that you develop a very good relationship with your dealer and if it does not work, return it. Make them prove their product as for this kind of money, the Leica M8 almost focused, must be back focus, just does not cut it.

    Marc Williams, Guy M and many others have sent lenses and bodies in to have them calibrated to appropriate specs...its an old story still occurring with the technical cameras but less so with MF autocameras. I enjoy my Alpa but wonder if the small incremental gain of the Rod or Sch MF lenses is worth the imprecise focus dance it entails. Take the H3D close your eyes and it still focuses if you happen to point at the right thing...you do need to point it.

    Like all of us, you are attracted to exotic high end equipment. Silvestri is a bit player in a market full of bit players, it just happens to be one of the smaller players. Less support and less information from others using the same equipment who can offer suggestions from their struggles to make things work. A Guaneri is not a Strad but I would not turn down either.

    So, keep a level head...enjoy your purchase and find how to make it perform for your needs. You have found that the emotional support here at the present is shall I say a bit lacking...attempts at humor aside. We do share your joy in the pursuit of the capture and hope that you will make it a success. Why not post some winners and hide the losers as you work out the small details with the new system. Long term play the cards you have been dealt well and let luck fall where she may.

    Sorry for the run on...

    With warm regards,

    Bob

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    My oh my....
    .....
    Like all of us, you are attracted to exotic high end equipment. ...
    Bob, very interesting answer.
    I have to thoughts:
    1) Personally owning a digital back I am also quite interested in a Alpa or Cambo or something comparable. However I am really not sure yet how often I would take advantage of the better IQ of those Rodenstock and Schneider lenses. I am also not sure yet if the manual metering and focusing and more difficult framing would lead to a more carefull compostion and crativity or if it would just slow me down. Probably I will have to find out myself.

    2)Guessing distance: Just recently I took some images with my Nikon 24PCE. Focusing it through the viewfinder or live view made clear, that even at infinity a very slight change in focus will be visible in the image. Just setting the lens on the infinity sign on the scale is not 100% precise.
    Comparing cameras and lenses I made the same experience: even at longer distance precise focus is critical to get the full potential from the lens and the sensor.
    So one could use focus bracketting for critical things - or use a ground glass with loupe (how bright is it? How good does this work). The sliding back with included groundglass and loupe of the Artec makes this camera very interesting as well IMO.
    The other "wish" would be a live view and display comparable to that of a Nikon d3 to be included in a digital back. Would be a big advantage IMO.
    Cheers, Tom

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    The difference between 5 meters and infinity focus on the focus scale using a Schneider 35 digitar is less than 5% of the total focus throw in case anyone is wondering this is a very small amount. At f11 you can pretty much be sure of acceptable focus from less than 1 meter to infinity.

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Hey Guys,

    I combined response and Thank You to all.

    I want to be clear here... I have been too polite about what has been happening and the reason I take the time to document this again now is so that anyone else visiting this forum as they plan a switch to MFD will know the hoops and the pitfalls.

    1) My P45+ kit shipped with a dodgy kit lens and many people implied that I either did not know how to use it or that my expectations were too high. On examination by the dealer it was immediately clear to him that I was right, the lens was crap, it got replaced with one that does perform to my expectations.

    2) I tried a new 28D and posted examples here, asking what people thought. Largely I was told that I didn't understand the need to stop down with this sort of equipment. As it happened, the lens was shot to S***, a fact my dealer quickly accepted. A few weeks later I tried another one at the same dealer and it was equally bad. Even the dealer suggested that they might have accidentally re-stocked the first lens. I now have a second hand version which is pretty good if not 100%.

    3) I initially bought the whole setup wanting access to movements and on the basis that by the end of last year the Hartblei would a) arrive and b) perform like a lens. I foolishly planned a trip around that happening, which I had to cancel when Phase's UK rep lent me a Hartblei that was literally a coke bottle rather than a lens. Of course he hadn't tested it himself but claimed that two or three other pros had used it and had found it to be fine. I'm telling you that lens couldn't resolve an elephant a yard away. I now have a second hand version which is pretty good if not 100%

    3) The Phase instruction book for the body is so bad that you have to use the Mamiya version to work out basic functions.

    4) I haven't even mentioned that the UK rep agreed that my back's buttons are gritty and with imprecise action.

    5) Phase literature and instructions led me to invest hundreds of pounds in a Metz flash setup that was supposed to offer TTL metering and in fact does not.

    6) I tried to purchase a silvestri flexcam. It could see the elephant but not its trunk or tail, because it couldn't get the lens exactly parallel to the sensor.

    7) I spent many weeks both here and on LL asking for people's views and experiences of certain tech bodies, backs and lenses and eventually found that out of the tiny subset of setups that match my needs (and yes I did consider all the alternatives including those offered by a particular manufacturer which has no website on which product specs and details can be checked... a fact that still leaves me scratching my head) the Silvestri Bicam seemed to get thumbs up. I spent over $11,000 (further) dollars on it and it turns out that it can't tell the difference between 5 metres and infinity. Opinions here vary and suggestions include using a laser to focus and the assertion that you cannot accurately focus using distance scales. One chap indicates that focus on these lenses is never at infinity when the scale says so and implies that I am naive to expect that whereas the manufacturer tells me to adjust the lens so that infinity on the GG is infinity on the barrel, to within less than 2/100ths of a millimetre. The manufacturer and UK distributor admit between them that they have mis-paired this lens and this body by mistake and that they will not achieve correct focus together without adjustment.

    I haven't even mentioned the five chargers I went through to get one that works or the fact that my Phamiya body shipped with last generation firmware and is now in Denmark, of all places, for a firmware update, of all things, to improve things like a shutter lag that makes George Bush Junior look sharp. Nor have I made much of the fact that the current version of C1 doesn't work properly on the current spec high end macs as used by imaging professionals worldwide. Oh, sorry, it does if you remove all the RAM down to the last 2 gig pair. Apparently.

    So... I have now spent in the region of $30,000 and what do I have today?

    * A three month+ history of poorly QC'd components, frustration, endless trips to the dealer and not so many photos
    * The knowledge that so far, second hand stuff performs better than new
    * A Phamiya body in another country (told to expect ten days turnaround!)
    * A tech cam setup which does not focus

    In other words, $30,000 down and no ability to take a picture as of this writing

    Now, who do I blame?

    Myself? I don't think so. I research before purchase, pay a handsome price, and test immediately afterwards with stringent but not unreasonable expectations. I also am a reasonably experienced photographer.

    My dealer? To be honest, yes, a tiny bit but only a tiny bit and cock-ups, though rare, do happen to the best of us.

    Lady Luck? Maybe a little. It's been an unprecedentedly bad run but I know what a bell curve looks like and sometimes you're gonna find yourself on the left of it. S***t does happen and I don't feel that in general it happens more to me than anyone else.

    The real responsibility rests in two clear areas

    1) Manufacturers such as Phase who document stuff poorly and or inaccurately and do not apply QC procedures appropriate to the price point of their product. Manufacturers like Silvestri (and or their distributors) who don't understand that in today's economy you do not survive by shipping mismatched components.

    2) People who let them get away with it.

    I may be on the wrong point of the bell curve at the moment but I do believe that people make their own luck. Except for people in group 2) above. I have no intention of swelling their ranks.

    Thanks again to everyone, especially to Doc Moore who was kind enough to say what I was too reticent to myself!

    Best

    Tim
    Last edited by tashley; 12th February 2009 at 02:36.

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim, please send back that Silvestri and lens and ask for a matched set. Nothing else makes sense at this point. I don't see why you should constantly be the one who connects the dots for the idiocy/incompetence of various dealers/distributors/manufacturers.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim honestly and i read every thread on this forum very carefully and also am pretty experienced at these tech camera's and such. First off i don't think anyone is really giving you a hard time and let's face it you have had some bad luck compared to other users that slap on a lens and go to town. I think we are all frustrated for you and not at you and maybe that reads wrong to some and I will just flat out apologize for the whole forum right now and everyone in it. If I thought for a second anyone was out of line i would have edited or done something. You know how Jack and I run this place and it is the friendliest game in town and will always be that. I can't speak for Phase and i won't either. I own the system and have been very satisfied with it along with many others here. Our biggest issue is documentation, totally agree there. As far as lenses i don't think anyone hit a really bad one except for the new 45mm D Jack bought and returned. The 28mm as i reported months ago and others as well has some soft corners especially with the framing of the P25 and P45. Now if you go to a store and pick up a Hassy 28mm and look through it the distortion is very evident and only through there software does it corrected. The Mamiya is much nicer to look through distortion wise and there are some corrections for it but the corner sharpness is not there yet with C1 , i made a cheat on that and made it very public about this lens with a zillion shots with it. So some very well known facts right here on this forum alone. You got a bad copy as well as a bad 80mm, not sure what to say but it seems everyones lenses here happen to be fine. Phase's fault sure is and a run of bad luck for you.

    What i think some folks are missing here is the outpour of help that was given to you from members that could not understand WHY yours was so bad , in all these cases everyone tries to help and makes suggestions on technique and try to help solve your issues. No one knows exactly how you are testing or let's face it knows if you are even capable of testing. I don't mean that as a slam but you know how this goes , we are not there and we make assumptions just like anyone else that has issues. You been down the Leica path with me and how many people can't even load the firmware, okay rest my case you know exactly what I am saying. Sometimes it just sounds like a whining pig, we all know better than that here in your case but every piece of gear you tried there was a issue. Assumptions again and given the frequency of it, certainly makes all of us scratch our heads. I think you understand what I am saying here. now let's move on. Any Tech camera lens the distance scales on ANY of the lenses can be off according to the actually point it focused on. This is with any of the systems. It is a imprecise setup and really only a guide and not a absolute number. If it says 10 ft we assume it is but it maybe 11. The back to body tolerance is very suspect on everyone of these . Alpa actually gives you spacers to make those adjustments if needed. They would not give them to the buyers if they thought it would not be needed. The tolerance in this is a 1/1000th of a inch sometimes. Now let me add these are not mentioned by anyone that sells this stuff in most cases. These are real facts on tech camera's and honestly it is a serious guessing game on a 15 thousand dollar setup. None of them are dead to nuts in regards to the focus point. I don't care what system it is, some obviously are damn good and pretty precise on there tolerances and adjustments. When I bought my Horseman , my lens had immediate issues went back to the factory and was corrected . My numbers were all over the place and the lens was loose in the mount. My dealer jumped all over it and Horseman had it back within a week from overseas. The only truest way to work these is to test them out and see what is correct and what is not correct. Yes Silvestri screwed up and i would send those mismatch parts back immediately because you may never get there starting off with parts that are completely off but most of these systems are very close and work fine in the field. Sliding backs are suspect to begin with given these tolerances and the only real way for precision is tethered . i think that has been said all along. Not the best solution all the time but the truest one . The lens scales maybe off but the focus maybe dead on with different numbers. Laser distance scale tools are very helpful and once the system is corrected okay than they are very useful to many people. I think the ground glass setup maybe one of the best setups. If the tolerances are the same between ground glass and going to back than it works great. Jim Collum uses this all the time on his Horseman.

    Tim honestly this is a repeat of what most of us been saying all along. From comments like these you make the judgement calls on to buy or not. I think the Silvestri has a lot of promise but again a very small fish in a very small pond and support is very small. Just like Alpa and Arca Swiss. There expensive and we expect what we spend or think the product should work out of the gate but given some known facts on these not always easy to achieve.

    Anyway I look at it this way and sorry but we are just as frustrated as you and for you. So if we sound a little offbeat don't take it personal it is not intended that way, we are pissed also. We all want these systems to work but if your going to be the guinea pig than expect the worst. i know this fact all to well done this 3 times being the first out of the gate DMR,M8 and 1dsMKII and if you think I don't have any grey hair from that than you are sadly mistaken. I don't even want to go there on issues I had. Thanks Guy

    The end of the day we all feel sorry that the money you have spent is not working in your behalf. That just makes us all mad and it should not be that way. many of us are voicing our frustration as well for you and giving as much advice as we can to help. If that comes out wrong than I think everyone here feels the same as me, it is not directed directly at you and we are just trying to help as best we can but not directly in the situation but at a distance.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    My oh my....

    While this site has maintained a very even tone since its inception it seems to have taken a bit of a turn to the dark side. I apologize to anyone who may be offended by my comments but I feel that Tim has taken a fair share of hits, not altogether unwarranted but still out of character for the forum.
    Hi Bob:

    Maybe I am missing something... While I think perhaps there has been some fun made of Tim's situation, I don't feel it has been disrespectful. In contrast, I think we're all feeling his pain and have been pretty caring and concerned, and the laughing with him (as opposed to at him) is our way of helping him get through it with his chin up.

    ~~~

    One chap indicates that focus on these lenses is never at infinity when the scale says so and implies that I am naive to expect that whereas the manufacturer tells me to adjust the lens so that infinity on the GG is infinity on the barrel, to within less than 2/100ths of a millimetre.
    Tim,

    I suspect this is directed at my earlier comment, but I stand by it -- helical focus mounts almost always go beyond infinity to accomodate thermal expansion in the metal; so a lens that is set perfectly at 40C will not be deliver the same result at 20C...

    Regardless, I don't feel anybody has implied you don't know how to test. When you start a new thread on your newest experiences, you generally do not go into detail on how you obtained them, and usually just post comments about how bad they are. Since many of us do test rigorously ourselves, and have made a variety of mistakes along the way, questions about how you obtained them are naturally going to arise. But this has been in an effort to help, not slight. Perhaps this is where you and Bob feel you are getting slighted, as we are asking precise questions in an effort to make sure variables have been dealt with, and this may seem like we doubt your abilities? If that is the case, I apologize for my part in it, but IMO this has all been for the express purpose of helping you sort it out. And let's face it, your proportion of new gear failures has been inordinately high -- I have been calling that bad luck...

    That said, for my part I will avoid any future comments or suggestions on your situation going forward so as not to inadvertently offend.

    Best of luck going forward, and I mean that sincerely!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  40. #40
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Jack, Guy,

    I am so not looking to pick a fight here - in fact the opposite: I value the advice I have been given because regardless of whether it is correct or not on any individual occasion, it is always given generously and with good intent.

    I regard this forum as an exercise in collaborative exchange. Between us we get to test and know a far wider range of gear in a far wider range of circumstances than any of us individually will. When I have useful knowledge I will gladly and freely share it and I truly appreciate that others do the same.

    What we are collaboratively working on is a complex and shifting puzzle composed of minutely engineered and very expensive components. It is bound to throw up anomalies and puzzles and I apologise unreservedly if my post higher up this thread gave the impression that in the frustration of this process I was biting the hands that feed me. That's not my intention and it's not my way and I do appreciate the hospitality you guys show here, a lot.

    My pointing out the apparent contradictions in various bits of advice was not intended as an accusation, but an illustration of the nature of the problem: that the kind advice given by different but highly experienced people can be contradictory.

    I think I have often posted my testing methodologies (I am not DXO-head but I have ways and they work!) but no matter how often one states 'I used a tripod, a 10X loupe, mirror up, tethered, focus bracket, blah blah blah) people will always say 'ah but did you use a tripod/MUP/Blah blah blah' because it's human nature not to want to read all the detail of every thread - so in the end I just have to hope that people who have known me from other fora over the years know that I'm fairly sensible about these things - and I must say that on every piece of kit that I called faulty on initial testing it turns out I was right. I have a reasonable track record here.

    I also really can take a joke at my own expense (you should see what I look like!) and it wasn't until the Doc said the un-sayable that I chimed in to agree that the tone of a small number of posts have seemed a little snippy. But then hey, I am the Angel of Gloom around here at the moment.

    I just want to make sure that we, corporately, learn from all this so that other people avoid the pitfalls or at least know where they might lie.

    Jack, please don't stop giving advice. Please?

    Tim

    ps @ Carsten - I have returned the whole Silvestri setup. Life's too short and I suspect that as Jack said the mismatch of lens to body is not the main issue. What I do know is that there are plenty of people using the Cambo WD and since my dealer can do me one with a Schneider 35 at a very very good price, that's the way I'll go. No bellows means no tilt, no sliding back means no easy and quick focus routine but it's much more likely to let me take photos in focus and at this stage that's what I want.... and there'll be very nearly enough change from the Silvestri refund for a D3X... ;-)
    Last edited by tashley; 12th February 2009 at 09:18.

  41. #41
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim no issues here my friend and same with Jack, actually just chatted with him a little bit ago. The Cambo is a sweetie the RS one is nice and small and has nice geared movements and a nice compliment to your back. No one yet seems to have had any real issues with it and some folks here own it and love it. Don comes to mind immediately. Tim also Jack and I do have and tested the Helicon focus software with our Phase Kits . I posted a thread in image processing and damn if it does not work as advertised, cheap price to pay for focus all the way through the image. Do check out that thread , pretty darn interesting and very fast. Really solves some DOF issues and I was using long lenses to boot. Now you still will have to test it like I said sometime the posted 10 ft is not reality ten feet so need to know what truly is ten feet on the scale on the lens. I shot a 47mm and it was dead to nuts on the money and very very nice. The 35mm should be a nice lens on it. I also think you can get a ground glass for it if you want to go that route also. Lot's of info on that on the Calumet site and may want to check out all the parts that you may want or need. Now not slamming Alpa, Arca or Silvestri but at least Calumet products are more universal worldwide and maybe easier to get what you need and such. Anyway good luck and let's hope this all works out in the end. i am actually glad you kept the Phase back since I really believe in those backs and the software myself, more importantly they produce nice files.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    this one is the one I have worked with

    Cambo Wide RS Body WRS-1000

    Calumet # CB0579
    Mfg. Part # 99162100
    Ships Same Day
    $2,799.99
    QTY

    View Larger More Images
    Product Features
    he Wide RS body is for those photographers looking for something more compact than the Wide DS, but still in need of the image-placement shift movements.

    This exciting addition to the Cambo Wide family features both lateral and vertical shift movements of the rear standard, hence the name RS. The movements are driven by accellerated spindle gears, these precision-geared controls provide architectural photographers with many of the image-placement movements they require, while giving digital photographers the ability to create amazing vertical and horizontal panoramic images through stitching several exposures together.

    Like the other Cambo Wide models, the RS features interchangeable interfaces for Hasselblad, Leaf, Phase One and Sinar digital backs. Mounts are available for Hasselblad V, Hasselblad-H, Mamiya 645AFD and Contax 645AF compatible camerabacks. A new interface plate hosting the Leaf AFi and Sinar HY6 backs is also available.

    In order to accomplish nearly any architectural or landscape assignment, the Wide RS accepts the full range of WDS lens panels that incorporate the Schneider Digitar and Rodenstock Digital lenses. Choose from focal lengths ranging from 24mm up to 120mm.

    The Wide RS body weighs just 1.2 kg (2.6 lbs.) and is as compact as 155mm (6.1") x 165mm (6.5"). It comes with a double aluminium handgrip for steady shooting, and built-in spirit levels for fast and accurate setups. The removable tripod mount is 3/8" thread.

    Removing the tripod mount block reduces the height of the camera to only 140mm. A removable cable release is included with the camera and can be placed either through the left or right handgrip by choice for hand-held shooting.

    Whether you use it on a tripod or hand-held for more spontaneous shooting, the Wide RS camera will open up new photographic possibilities for you.

    Features:

    Small size 155 x 165mm (W x H) incl. handgrips and tripod mount
    Lightweight only 1.2 kgs (excl. lens)
    Horizontal shift 40 mm (20 mm left/20 mm right)
    Vertical shift 40 mm (25mm / 15mm)
    Stitching possibilities (2-way / 4-way)
    Milimeter scales for movements
    Movement indicators on rear sides
    Compatible with WDS and Wide Compact
    2 integrated handgrips for steady holding
    Removable cable release included
    Removable 3/8" tripod mount (25 mm)
    4 spirit levels visible from top or bottom
    Accessory shoe for viewfinder included
    Additional LED light included
    Optional Viewfinder
    Optional Wooden handgrips
    Broad range of optics
    Retrofitting of user lenses offered
    Compact Softcase included
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  43. #43
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    [QUOTE=Jack Flesher;75708]Hi Bob:

    Maybe I am missing something... While I think perhaps there has been some fun made of Tim's situation, I don't feel it has been disrespectful. In contrast, I think we're all feeling his pain and have been pretty caring and concerned, and the laughing with him (as opposed to at him) is our way of helping him get through it with his chin up.

    ~~~

    Jack and Guy,

    You are completely correct in your assessment. I was wrong for being overly strident in my depiction of the tone that the threads pertaining to Tim's travails with his MF digital transition had taken. I agree that nothing was disrespectful but only worried that in the aggregate the tone was becoming a bit like some on the less collegial sites. Indeed, no individual post was offensive nor was I directing the comment at any individual.

    It is difficult to measure the response to one's posts...unlike when you are sitting around the fire in the evening with a single-malt and sharing jests and the occasional gibe. It occurred to me that the build-up may have been a little over-the-top for Tim...personally, with my thick skin it would not have been a problem.

    My most humble apologies to you and Guy for blowing this out of proportion to its true nature. You both have done a great job for keeping your site a very warm enjoyable place to learn and share. I learn daily from the participation which is first rate.

    Again, my bad...and my apologies to all.

    Bob

  44. #44
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Tim

    First please allow me a chance to offer you a very public apology for my flippant remarks earlier for that I am truly sorry; it just wasnít called for.

    I am the very proud owner/user of the Cambo RS1000 and in case I donít get the point across, I think this camera is just great. I only want to address what I know, what I own and use and thatís the RS1000. I had the choice between the WDS and RS and decided on the RS for a couple of simple (at least to me) reasons mainly being that it was designed specifically for digital format and all the movement are on the back not the lens.

    I had several serious reservations going to a technical camera mainly among them was getting the critical focus that I demand of my images be they large panoramas or in you face close-ups; I was also a little concerned about shooting without a viewfinder (I had decided to take a wait and see approach before paying several hundred dollars on the viewfinder/masks). Iím very happy to report that the two concerns addressed above are a mute point.

    Iíve never in the short time Iíve had this kit had a focusing issue (meaning no loss frames due to out of focusing). I have also soon learned that I can visualize the image in my head and in very rare cases not picked up what I wanted to capture because of a lack of viewfinder (I hope that makes sense).

    This isnít to say that there havenít been hiccups along the way. Two major problems that Iím working on and almost have conquered are remember to remove the lens cap which is happening less and less and remembering to cock the shutter Ė nether of which are anything more than an embarrassing nuisance.

    I guess what Iím attempting to convey here is that for a landscape kit I really donít believe you could go wrong with the Cambo RS1000. I currently have a 35 and 72mm lens both of which are excellent and more than capable of giving me stunning results if I do my part correctly.

    Iíd also like to address the other part of my landscape kit if youíll allow me. I have the Phase AFD III along with a 28, 75-150 and 300mm lens. Every lens in this kit is capable of producing stunning images.

    The final note here is that the one constant in either kit is the digital back which is a Phase One P45+ (I upgraded from a P30+ when I switched to a technical camera).

    Once again I donít mean to offend anyone who is using another camera make I wanted to speak about the Cambo RS1000 from my personal experiences only.

    Just a note regarding the feeling of frustration and in some cases helplessness. I decided to switch from using the great Capture Integration 2-shot cable system to the Kapture Group 1-shot. I couldnít get this to work to save my life! I was on the edge of the ledge and looking for a huge hammer. I not so quick call to Doug Peterson got everything working the way it should. This was part user error on my part and part crappy or not very clear instructions. Either case I went to bed with this hanging over my head and didnít get it cleared up till the following morning. All this just happened within the past 18 hours. Going through this made me a hell of a lot more aware of what youíve been going through.
    I really hadnít intended on writing a book however I wanted to get these points across.

    I wish you nothing but great success in finding the system thatíll work best for you and if I can be of any assistance please let me know.

    don

    I was writing this as Docmore was adding his thoughts and have decided not to change a thing.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  45. #45
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I also really can take a joke at my own expense (you should see what I look like!)
    Photos please!

    Seriously, Tim, please don't take the Cambo home until you have at least one sharp shot taken at the dealer's You've got a track-record, as you say.

    Sad that the Silvestri had to go. Sad that you didn't give them a chance to get it right, but you are right, life is short, and in the context of this thread, your life seems shorter than that of most...

    Am I reading your post wrong, or did you say that you are getting the Cambo Wide DS, yet everyone is commenting on the RS? Have you considered the RS?

    Presumably this is the one: http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_p...t/Item504.html
    Carsten - Website

  46. #46
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Photos please!

    Seriously, Tim, please don't take the Cambo home until you have at least one sharp shot taken at the dealer's You've got a track-record, as you say.

    Sad that the Silvestri had to go. Sad that you didn't give them a chance to get it right, but you are right, life is short, and in the context of this thread, your life seems shorter than that of most...

    Am I reading your post wrong, or did you say that you are getting the Cambo Wide DS, yet everyone is commenting on the RS? Have you considered the RS?

    Presumably this is the one: http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_p...t/Item504.html
    You read correctly Carsten... it's the DS I'm getting. For various complex reasons my dealer and Phase between them are able to offer me a WDS with 35XL for around the price of the lens unit alone... seems very acceptable! The DS seems to have worked for plenty of people and though it's a bit heavier and larger, it still gets a good rap. Also, though the vertical movements are on the front, the horizontal ones are on the rear so stitching should be good. And since the system is so well-priced I can then upgrade later to an RS system if I choose...

    BTW, a more demotic way of expressing 'you've got a track record' is to say 'you've got previous' which is short for 'previous convictions'. Quite fitting, eh?

  47. #47
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Tim,
    Next time I buy a car, I will take you along and have you select one.
    I will then buy another.
    Where can this man go to get treatment for this? The pyramids obviously did not help.
    -bob
    I can vouch for Tim's car buying skills - I bought his last unwanted car off him, and have been enjoying it for the last year (25,000 miles).

    The only problem I've found with it is that if you reverse it into Dutch white van man . . . it makes a mark on the bumper!

    On the other hand, he bought my old Saab off me . . . I hope it's still working!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I've had a lot of trouble with my car lately as well. Hmmm....
    Oh Dear
    not the old black one I hope?

    Just this guy you know

  49. #49
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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Oh Dear
    not the old black one I hope?
    Worry not Jono, that Saab has turned out to be the vehicular equivalent of a second-hand Hartblei... and you know what? It may not have any noticeable steering but I swear that it's faster than the Porsche. Which makes it very exciting in snow!

    ;-)

    t

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    Re: Ideal aperture for Schneider Digitar 35mm 5.6 XL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Worry not Jono, that Saab has turned out to be the vehicular equivalent of a second-hand Hartblei... and you know what? It may not have any noticeable steering but I swear that it's faster than the Porsche. Which makes it very exciting in snow!

    ;-)

    t
    Oh! I do agree that it's faster - especially from 30mph onward . . . .but I suspect that the porsche is quite as exciting in the snow
    It has the added excitement that at less than -5C, the windows only go down (and not up). It's bracing

    I'm sorry about your travails, I know nothing about MF. But I do know that your testing is meticulous

    Just this guy you know

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