Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

[dougpeterson]

1. Upgrade Path$? Specifically DF+ to XF if DF+ less than 6months old?
2. Seriously: less than 24hours notice to stop what we are doing and get down to LA to see this stuff (and you and Lance, of course ) ...if I had known, woulda coulda...

Congrats on what looks like an excellent new camera body! You have a winner there and will try and make it down.

1. $2k in value for your DF+.
2. Maybe you can squeeze it in? I know it's a decently long drive for you. We weren't allowed to talk about this in advance, so I do apologize for the short notice.

 

[Shashin]

I just saw the price for the 50MP XF kit--$41,000. That is quite an upgrade. I thought a Leica S system was expensive...

 

[dougpeterson]

I just saw the price for the 50MP XF kit--$41,000. That is quite an upgrade. I thought a Leica S system was expensive...

There is a fairly large range of pricing.

An XF Body, viewfinder, Schneider LS lens, and IQ140 digital back is XF IQ1 has a list price of $20,990.

Also IQ1 backs and Credo backs have been reduced in price so the entry level in Phase One also just went down.

 

[Enda Cavanagh]

From DT site:



Please quantify and clarify.

It's best by miles

 

[dougpeterson]

I'd like to know too. Seeing as this looks very much like a regular sensor, it probably uses contrast-detect instead of phase-detect, similar to that in the A7R, difference being that regular CDAF has to use the same sensor to both focus and shoot, but this one is full-time AF. Contrast-detect AF is definitely much more accurate than regular methods, but as everyone knows it tends to be slower, which is why many cameras also offer on-sensor phase detect AF now, but then again, this one is full-time duty. Just speculating.

Normal contrast-detection-in-live-view is done by large general-purpose sensors. This is a one megapixel sensor with a much faster readout and much more specialized purpose.

To my knowledge, no one else uses a system like this for focusing in a pro SLR.

You'll just have to pick up an XF and put the button to see how fast it is. We hope to do some tests to show accuracy versus other bodies. But we're on the road a ton the next month for our DT XF Events in LA, New York, Chicago, DC, Boston, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Philly, San Francisco, and Birmingham so I'm not sure we'll have a chance to do the kind of formal test I'm comfortable posting. In the meanwhile I have my less-than-scientific answer of "it's very accurate" from pointing it at various things, including some tricky subject matter, and having it be tack sharp while shooting wide open.

 

[dougpeterson]

It's best by miles

Realistically it's the best by millimeters. That is to say, that with 50/60/80mp digital backs the difference between [tack sharp] and [only okay] is often a mm or two when shooting wide open.

So the improved accuracy (and per lens focus trimming) is all about getting that last mm to drop perfectly into place, all without taking any extra time.

 

[Lobalobo]

Pricing Observation

Obviously a lot to like, but a few stand out issues for me are:

Their line up is now looking as muddled as GMs before the crash of ’08/'09. So (deep breath) we have ... the same chip between the 150, 250 and 350,
Jim

And we could add the Credo 50 to this list, I believe, all with the same chip. The Credo 50 and IQ 150 lack wifi, which is, I'd imagine, a big deal on a tech camera. Not surprising then that the IQ 250 and IQ 350 cost more. But if I understand the pricing, it's many thousands of dollars more. My two year old Panasonic LF1, a $250 pocket camera, includes a connection to my smart phone that will then serve as a live viewfinder and remote control. A perfectly silly feature for a pocket camera, but my point is that the whole camera costs only $250, suggesting that the wifi technology is not that complicated. Of course I understand that the technical requirements for a high performance $30,000 back would be greater, but the pricing suggests something other than cost coverage for the feature. Just saying.

 

[kdphotography]

Re: Pricing Observation

And we could add the Credo 50 to this list, I believe, all with the same chip. The Credo 50 and IQ 150 lack wifi, which is, I'd imagine, a big deal on a tech camera. ....

Um, no. If you've shot the Credo 50 or IQ150 on a tech camera, the lack of wifi is not a big deal. Both are CMOS MFDBs and their live view capabilities are excellent.

Of course, if you want to tether via USB3 to a Surface Pro---that capability will snuff anything that you can view via wifi on any system. Viewing full resolution RAWs at 100% to 400% on C1Pro8 on a Surface Pro versus JPEG jaggies. Not even close. Just saying.

It's expensive to be in Dante's Inferno...and even more so with the latest greatest offerings.

ken

 

[dougpeterson]

Re: Pricing Observation

And we could add the Credo 50 to this list, I believe, all with the same chip. The Credo 50 and IQ 150 lack wifi, which is, I'd imagine, a big deal on a tech camera. Not surprising then that the IQ 250 and IQ 350 cost more. But if I understand the pricing, it's many thousands of dollars more.

The IQ3 offers a lot more on top of the Credo than just WiFi.
- automatic horizon correction
- automatic perspective correction
- heat map for zone exposure metering
- clipping indicator (in addition to exposure warning)
- integration of the XF interface on the back itself
- exposure calculator
- focus mask
- auto ISO
- histogram and level shown on XF
- temperature graph
- remote control using Capture Pilot
- 5 year warranty (including on the body/lenses purchased at the same time) including loaner during any service

and of course WiFi

 

[Lobalobo]

Re: Pricing Observation

Of course, if you want to tether via USB3 to a Surface Pro---that capability will snuff anything that you can view via wifi on any system. Viewing full resolution RAWs at 100% to 400% on C1Pro8 on a Surface Pro versus JPEG jaggies. Not even close. Just saying.

ken

Well, I already have a Surface Pro 3 and that's a start. All I need now is another $41,000 and I'm set. More seriously, my thoughts on the importance of wifi for a tech camera comes from my experience with large format film. It is cumbersome to bring and go under cloth to see the focusing screen, however sharp and clear, and having the image on an ipad that could be viewed by moving the device to the shade would seem a real convenience. If not, though, then I'm even more surprised Phase One can charge what it does for wifi connectivity.

 

[Kolor-Pikker]

I just saw the price for the 50MP XF kit--$41,000. That is quite an upgrade. I thought a Leica S system was expensive...

One thing's for sure - the S is still the best looking camera there is.

And the most comfortable.

Even though I have the 645Z I'd still want an S007 if I won the lottery or something.

 

[kdphotography]

Re: Pricing Observation

Well, I already have a Surface Pro 3 and that's a start. All I need now is another $41,000 and I'm set. ...

C'mon in, the waters fine. :ROTFL:

Seriously, you'll like what the SP3 produces over the ipad. Ipad is fine for framing, but not critical work. Glare is an issue on any viewing device screen on location.

I like that list on the IQ3. I gotta keep convincing myself I only want the XF camera body....

 

[narikin]

Doug - how does this 80mp sensor differ from the 'old' 80mp sensor?

I hear you on long exposures, but that's of use to very particular group of photographers - whereas for the rest of us... is there more DR? much better high ISO? Less noise? something else?

without any of these, in a meaningful way, not simply pixel peeping, I can't see many IQ180 users upgrading.

 

[gerald.d]

Obviously a lot to like, but a few stand out issues for me are:

1. A WLF but you can’t rotate the back. Doh. But, who knows, maybe a rotating back is on the drawing board in the years ahead.

2. No Contax mount - kinda understand that but so many of those cameras and great glass out there.

3. No P+ support on the XF - that’s a biggie. Obviously it would have been a PITA to offer full support, but you would think P1 could have engineered a simple ‘trigger’ signal.

4. No vertical grip.

5. Their line up is now looking as muddled as GMs before the crash of ’08/'09. So (deep breath) we have the IQ140, IQ150, IQ160, IQ180, IQ250, IQ260, IQ280, IQ350, IQ360, and IQ380 ... with the same chip between the 150, 250 and 350, the same chip between the 160, 260 and 360, and the same chip between the 180 and 280.

6. CCD not CMOS. Makes you wonder if its economically viable to get a custom 80MP CMOS chip fabricated, or if they’ll just piggy back on whatever Sony produces for the broader market. Which, sadly, means chips that primarily perform well on DSLRs.

5. Pricing. I know, I know it’s on old rant. Still, the price per pixel on a P1 back is now only 1/6th the price it was 17 years ago. By comparison the price per pixel on a ’35mm’ DSLR is 1/30th the price. That’s what a lack of competition gets you.

Jim

On the sensors, I believe it's a lot simpler than that.

They are not listing the IQ2 series sensors at all in context of the XF (except for the Achromatoc).

Kind regards,

Gerald.

 

[rhern213]

Is there a price listed for the new 35mm LS lens?

 

[Jay Emm]

Thanks for all the info Doug - first class. Any word on weather seals? I know it has covers over ports, but does the body have some additional seals/weather features for use outside the studio?

 

[dougpeterson]

Is there a price listed for the new 35mm LS lens?

$6490 is the list price.

Wait until you see the performance. We should have sample images up tonight.

 

[dougpeterson]

Thanks for all the info Doug - first class. Any word on weather seals? I know it has covers over ports, but does the body have some additional seals/weather features for use outside the studio?

Not claimed to be weather sealed. Like all gear P1 makes the build quality is excellent and I personally won't hesitate to use it in light or moderate rain. But I wouldn't stick it under a waterfall.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Well, I already have a Surface Pro 3 and that's a start. All I need now is another $41,000 and I'm set. More seriously, my thoughts on the importance of wifi for a tech camera comes from my experience with large format film. It is cumbersome to bring and go under cloth to see the focusing screen, however sharp and clear, and having the image on an ipad that could be viewed by moving the device to the shade would seem a real convenience. If not, though, then I'm even more surprised Phase One can charge what it does for wifi connectivity.

Well, if you buy the XF you get a nice Pelican style case that comes with a laptop display shade so you can also then get the ultimate SPro 3 experience and an armored case to go with it

How'd I do Ken with the 'enabling'??

 

[algrove]

I just saw the price for the 50MP XF kit--$41,000. That is quite an upgrade. I thought a Leica S system was expensive...

That now makes the 645Z a steal at under $8k.