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Thread: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

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    Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website





    The Announcements
    The new, ground-up, phase-one designed, 645 body is here. A few other goodies are arriving at the same time:
    - Phase One XF body
    - Phase One IQ3 Digital Back
    - Schneider 35LS
    - Schneider 120LS
    - Capture One 8.3
    - New Phase One website


    See Them in Person
    DT has Phase One XF Events coming up in LA, New York, Chicago, DC, Boston, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Philly, San Francisco, and Birmingham. Sign up now to secure your spot. With the XF especially you really need to put it in your hands to fully appreciate how much of a revolution it is.

    Questions?
    Ask any question you'd like. I have two XF bodies and two IQ3 backs on my person at the moment and just returned from Denmark where I interviewed the head of the XF project and many others in R+D.
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 2nd June 2015 at 05:07.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Camera does look extremely good. Kudos to Phase One for doing this. Really impressive. It looks like a huge leap for MF bodies. Certainly from my perspective. Two real life questions though:

    1. It looks like it will work with IQx backs on. Are P/P+ backs supported?
    2. The waist level finder is a great addition. Something I have been asking for. However how can it be used for portraits? Does the DB turn 90deg? If not the waist level finder won't be very useful from a portraiture perspective. Please please please say they have a portrait / waist level workable real life solution.

    Thanks for the post Doug. I don't mean to be negative, but they are really my only 2 unknowns at this stage.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Some answers to questions I've seen posted already. Most of which are covered in our Phase One XF blog post...

    Does the XF work with the IQ1?
    Yes. Some of the more advanced features won't be enabled, but the main functions of the camera will all work just as well as with more recent backs.

    Does the IQ380 use a new sensor?
    Yes. It is a Phase One exclusive 80mp sensor from Dalsa, which has significant R+D time to provide long exposures even better than the IQ260.The spec is the same "one hour" but quality of long exposure at any given length is improved. The IQ350 and IQ360 use the same sensors as the IQ250 and IQ260.

    Waist Level Viewfinder in Portrait Orientation
    The digital back does not rotate (it is still a 645 chassis) and the WLF only comes straight up, so like with the Hassy H or Contax WLF options, it wouldn't be very useful in a portrait orientation.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Can you disable the focal plane shutter if your lens has a leaf shutter? (I suppose you can but I better ask :-)

    What about FPS vibration? Asking as this is a big problem on the DF.

    Chris

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    More questions from the forum...

    Does the XF have dedicated shutter-speed, aperture, ISO dials?
    The XF has programmable hard buttons and programmable dials. Three dials provides (by default) direct access without removing your eye from the viewfinder, to ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed.

    Labeled dials like they had on the Contax would be very limiting in several ways: it couldn't show the full range of shutter speeds (the body can go from 1/4000th to 1 hour with digital control, longer using Bulb or T mode) and couldn't be moved or repurposed in case you usually use Aperture-priority mode and don't need access to shutter speed.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by cly View Post
    Can you disable the focal plane shutter if your lens has a leaf shutter? (I suppose you can but I better ask :-)

    What about FPS vibration? Asking as this is a big problem on the DF.

    Chris
    Can you fire just the LS? What about vibration from the Focal Plane shutter (i.e. Shutter Bounce)?

    Several notes:
    - The mirror has been better dampened. They redesigned this mechanism entirely. In most hand held shooting the mirror, rather than the FP shutter was the main limiter.
    - The LS can be fired without the FP or mirror. In most operation both are used because this increase the maximum frame rate, but in vibration sensitive work you can do any of these things to shoot with just the LS:
    --- shoot from live view (only LS fires)
    --- put the mirror up (only LS fires)
    --- use seismograph mode (only LS fires, and only when vibration has ceased)
    --- use bracketing mode (only LS fires)
    - MUP mode is directly accessible from Capture One, the digital back screen (when using IQ2/IQ3), and from the body itself. You can also program it to a hard button.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Doug, when will the new kit be available?
    TX
    Bill

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Doug, when will the new kit be available?
    TX
    Bill
    When is this Stuff Shipping?

    Nearly everything announced (body, lenses, backs, software) is either shipping now or will be shipping within two weeks.

    Exceptions are the Waist Level Viewfinder and IQ380 which will ship in July.
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 2nd June 2015 at 10:14.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Hi Doug
    It's probably too early too tell but has the IQ 380 back been tested yet on wide angles on a view camera. If so how is it with descent amounts of shift. I presume the wide angle Schneiders would still be an issue?
    Is the dark frame required?
    Unfortunatly the tech specs tab (plus the 2 beside it) isn't working on the phase one website. The joys of updating a site

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Thanks, Doug!

    Another question: what exactly is the difference between the former old mount and the new XF mount? In the file

    https://www.digitaltransitions.com/pdf/Iq3-Iq1specs.pdf

    it looks like you can't use the IQ250 with the new body as it says "Mount options XF: XF Camera System / P: DF & DF+ / H: Hasselblad V: Hasselblad 500".

    So is it a completely new mount?

    Chris

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    Hi Doug
    It's probably too early too tell but has the IQ 380 back been tested yet on wide angles on a view camera. If so how is it with descent amounts of shift. I presume the wide angle Schneiders would still be an issue?
    Is the dark frame required?
    Unfortunatly the tech specs tab (plus the 2 beside it) isn't working on the phase one website. The joys of updating a site
    Not too early to tell: same angular response as the IQ280. Fine for Rodenstock, not great with wide Schneiders like the 35XL.

    Dark frame is mandatory but improved in quality on the IQ380. There is now also a temperature readout that helps more sophisticated long-exposure users balance the temperature of their sensor with their exposure timing.

    Sorry about Phase's spec website. Ask me any spec and I'm glad to answer .
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by cly View Post
    Thanks, Doug!

    Another question: what exactly is the difference between the former old mount and the new XF mount? In the file

    https://www.digitaltransitions.com/pdf/Iq3-Iq1specs.pdf

    it looks like you can't use the IQ250 with the new body as it says "Mount options XF: XF Camera System / P: DF & DF+ / H: Hasselblad V: Hasselblad 500".

    So is it a completely new mount?

    Chris
    The marketing/spec-sheets are a bit confusing. I'm glad to clear this up.

    The mount is physically forward/backward compatible with the DF/DF+. There are new elements for communication in the mount. As covered in our Phase One XF Things to Love article the XF is compatible with the IQ1, IQ2, and IQ3 backs. Unfortunately P+ are not supported, but upgrade programs for P+ owners have never been better.

    The IQ3 is also backwards compatible with the DF and DF+ allowing those bodies to be a good backup to the XF.
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 2nd June 2015 at 05:46.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Doug,
    I read that this new camera is NOT compatible with the Credo line of digital backs. Is that correct?
    Thanks!
    Ken

    Here is the reference from CI...
    https://captureintegration.com/faq-phase-one-xf-iq3/
    Scroll down to "Camera", first comment.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    camera looks great. poo-poo on all the previous design criticisms.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Transposure View Post
    Doug,
    I read that this new camera is NOT compatible with the Credo line of digital backs. Is that correct?
    Thanks!
    The Credo is not yet supported.
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 2nd June 2015 at 06:53.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    camera looks great. poo-poo on all the previous design criticisms.
    To me it looks like an extension of the IQ backs, mixed with a bit of RZ and Contax - two of my favorite cameras.

    Of course everyone is welcome to their own opinion about aesthetics.





    Functionality of the interface, while still subjective, is perhaps a bit less abstract. If you like the IQ interface (simple Scandanavian design, customizable, touch screen and button hybrid) then you'll love the interface of the XF. Here it feels like a very natural extension of the IQ.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    So the IQ380 will not be available for H and V mounts ? Or is this only a temporary thing ?

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    wow no more support for the contax?

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Hi Doug
    Do you have to shoot sensor+ for long exposures are can you shoot at full resolution. How do the cmos 50 megapixel at 100 and 3200 iso compare with the IQ380 at iso 200 and 3200 at long exposures.

    How does the IQ380 compare to the 350 if you use a lot of shift on say the Rodie 32 and 40.

    Is the screen improved from the previous (already good) IQ2 series?

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    So the IQ380 will not be available for H and V mounts ? Or is this only a temporary thing ?
    From our Phase One IQ3 article...

    IQ260 / IQ250 for Hasselblad H & Hasselblad V
    Power Sharing with an XF body is the only feature of an IQ3 that won’t be provided to current IQ2 owners. Power sharing is provided by the modern architecture of the XF; it cannot be done when using an Hasselblad H or Hasselblad V. With this in mind, it didn’t make sense to make a back labeled IQ3 for the Hasselblad H and Hasselblad V. Since the IQ380 also has a new sensor (allowing 80mp long exposure), it is available in H and V mounts.

    Phase One continues to support these other bodies and future backs which have features that aren’t specific to the XF will continue to be released on all platforms.

    In addition, the IQ260 Achromatic will continue to be available only in an IQ2 flavor. This monochromatic back is one of our favorite products, offering unparalleled sharpness, true B+W capture, and is the best infrared digital back we’ve ever worked with. But, it’s a niche rather than high-volume product and will not updated to an IQ3.

    We know it’s a bit confusing at first; if you need any help understanding what models are available in what mounts, or what models allow what features, just give us a call and we’ll be glad to step you through it.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    wow no more support for the contax?
    From our Phase One IQ3 article...

    Wait, Where’s Contax?
    Digital Transitions LOVES the Contax body. It had great German glass, an optional waist level viewfinder which provides metering, simple intuitive operation, super durable mechanics, minimalist design, and uses a compact, inexpensive battery. The newly released Phase One XF body ticks off literally every one of those boxes while adding things the Contax never had, like a sync speed of 1/1600th.

    Still, there is something special about the Contax system; if nothing else, the nostalgia factor can’t be beat. Unfortunately it has been years since this body was made new, and supplies of used bodies and parts/service/repair are waning. As of today Phase One will no longer make Contax mount digital backs. Here at Digital Transitions we’re so sad about this that we’re throwing a wake for the end of the era of Digital Contax. Shoot us a tweet if you’d like your words of remembrance to be read there.

    Phase One will continue to provide service and support for the Contax backs it has sold for many years to come. As an indication of how seriously Phase One takes support of discontinued products look no further than the Phase One FX+ scan back, which was only end-of-life’d last year, more than15 years after it’s initial release.

    Digital Transitions still has a few more NEW Contax digital backs, the last that will ever be made. We expect to sell through this supply within two months (maybe faster when word gets out) so contact us today if you’re interested in purchasing or demoing a Contax digital back.

    By the way, if you love the Contax 80mm f/2 lens (and who didn’t??), stay tuned for our article titled “Big Buttery Bokeh on the XF: the Contax 80/2, Zeiss 110/2, Schneider 110/2.8, Schneider 130/2.1, and Mamiya 80/1.9” in which we mount a Contax 80/2 to the XF with great results.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    Hi Doug
    Do you have to shoot sensor+ for long exposures are can you shoot at full resolution.
    Long Exposure Mode and Sensor+ mode are independent functions. You can use either, both, or neither for any given frame.

    So yes, you can shoot long exposures at full resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    How do the cmos 50 megapixel at 100 and 3200 iso compare with the IQ380 at iso 200 and 3200 at long exposures.
    I will have raws to post of the IQ380 Long Exposure soon. It's quite good.

    I would not recommend ISO3200 for long exposures on the IQ380.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    How does the IQ380 compare to the 350 if you use a lot of shift on say the Rodie 32 and 40.
    The IQ250 and IQ350 will perform the same as each other.
    The IQ380 and IQ280 will perform the same as each other.

    All four work well with the Rodenstock wides. Please see our Tech Cam Test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    Is the screen improved from the previous (already good) IQ2 series?
    Same LCD Screen. Several new features on the screen, and tighter integration of that screen with the screen on the XF body.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    To me it looks like an extension of the IQ backs, mixed with a bit of RZ and Contax - two of my favorite cameras.

    Of course everyone is welcome to their own opinion about aesthetics.





    Functionality of the interface, while still subjective, is perhaps a bit less abstract. If you like the IQ interface (simple Scandanavian design, customizable, touch screen and button hybrid) then you'll love the interface of the XF. Here it feels like a very natural extension of the IQ.
    Great information, Doug. One area of concern is sheer physical mass of the XF with a back mounted. It appears to be built like a tank, but does it feel like a tank? In terms of the feel of the XF in hand, how does it compare with an H or a Leica S? What are the comparative weights? This is less of an issue in the studio, but it is for carrying it around in a backpack.
    Thanks.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    looking forward to seeing the RAW's Doug. Thanks for the info

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Great information, Doug. One area of concern is sheer physical mass of the XF with a back mounted. It appears to be built like a tank, but does it feel like a tank? In terms of the feel of the XF in hand, how does it compare with an H or a Leica S? What are the comparative weights? This is less of an issue in the studio, but it is for carrying it around in a backpack.
    Thanks.
    XF with standard viewfinder: 1390 grams
    XF with WLF: 1020 grams
    IQ3 Digital Back: 695 grams

    Like the IQ it is nearly all metal and very well built. Hand feel, IMO, is very good and well balanced, the new grip is a complete rethink from the shallow style used on the DF/DF+. But of course this is subjective, so join us at one of our DT XF Events in LA, New York, Chicago, DC, Boston, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Philly, San Francisco, and Birmingham and try one out.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    So it's for certain that the XF currently does not support any Credo back?

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    If the XF doesn't currently support the Credo, I hope this us to long lived. I've been waiting and waiting for an upgraded (if I'm more harsh, "a reliable") body and the XF looks like what I've been waiting for. If I won't ever be able to use it that would completely suck.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    I'll be asleep now for a few hours. The flight from Copenhagen to Los Angeles was not well timed with the launch. Feel free to leave any questions and I can answer them in a bit. For anyone in LA area you can see the XF tomorrow at our Phase One XF Launch event at Smashbox Studios.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Welcome to the future boys!!!



    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Doug,
    I have a 120mm Phase macro lens; any ideas how much better the new 120mm Macro lens may be in comparison?

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothjazz View Post
    Doug,
    I have a 120mm Phase macro lens; any ideas how much better the new 120mm Macro lens may be in comparison?
    The 120LS and 120D are the same lens, but with a refined chassis and a leaf shutter. It provides the same quality but with faster flash sync speed (1/1600 vs 1/125).

    In the case of the 35LS and the 35D the new 35LS is a completely new design and offers a large improvement to sharpness and quality.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    One more thing before I nod off. I cannot wait to share the Schneider 35LS sample files we have. It's that good.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    I am intrigued by the new CMOS AF sensor.
    Is this an imaging sensor doing contrast detection ? Or something even smarter, like the Canon Hybrid AF (some pixels are phase sensors, some do contrast detection) ?
    Any ideas about the "potential" of this AF system ? I would expect something like face detection (or probably even "focus on the closest eye", using "eye-detection"). I'm sure that could be really cool for fashion shooters, especially if P1 can introduce a face autofocus-on-the-eye on a moving subject.
    But perhaps it's something completely different ?

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Obviously a lot to like, but a few stand out issues for me are:

    1. A WLF but you can’t rotate the back. Doh. But, who knows, maybe a rotating back is on the drawing board in the years ahead.

    2. No Contax mount - kinda understand that but so many of those cameras and great glass out there.

    3. No P+ support on the XF - that’s a biggie. Obviously it would have been a PITA to offer full support, but you would think P1 could have engineered a simple ‘trigger’ signal.

    4. No vertical grip.

    5. Their line up is now looking as muddled as GMs before the crash of ’08/'09. So (deep breath) we have the IQ140, IQ150, IQ160, IQ180, IQ250, IQ260, IQ280, IQ350, IQ360, and IQ380 ... with the same chip between the 150, 250 and 350, the same chip between the 160, 260 and 360, and the same chip between the 180 and 280.

    6. CCD not CMOS. Makes you wonder if its economically viable to get a custom 80MP CMOS chip fabricated, or if they’ll just piggy back on whatever Sony produces for the broader market. Which, sadly, means chips that primarily perform well on DSLRs.

    5. Pricing. I know, I know it’s on old rant. Still, the price per pixel on a P1 back is now only 1/6th the price it was 17 years ago. By comparison the price per pixel on a ’35mm’ DSLR is 1/30th the price. That’s what a lack of competition gets you.

    Jim

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Jim, I want to piggyback on to #5. IMO and from my perspective, there's "premium" and there's "ridiculous". I think Phase pricing borders on ridiculous. If the XF's focusing system pans out, I will upgrade my DF body. But $8000 for the body is criminal. We can't compare to DSLRs. I get that (but the Canon 5Ds sure us going to make things interesting). But the Pentax 645z is a different story. At roughly $8k, a similarly equipped Phase system with essentially the same sensor is slightly over $40k. If they continue to get it, more powerful to 'em. I'd do the same thing. But it just seems to me that at some point they'd her more price competitive.

    Going back to the DSLR comparison, at least medium format digital backs are superior to what DSLR sensors can capture. How significant and noticeable that is is debatable. But IMO, it can't be debated that medium format bodies have been VASTLY inferior to DSLR bodies. I want to evaluate things further but I think that's probably still the case with the XF in comparison to something like a Nikon D4 or even lower level DSLRs like the D750 or equivalent Canon models. Yet the XF is still priced much much higher.

    Phase, your digital backs are best in class. So I get their pricing. But your camera bodies aren't even close. I just wish you'd price them more consistently with their capabilities.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    1. Upgrade Path$? Specifically DF+ to XF if DF+ less than 6months old?
    2. Seriously: less than 24hours notice to stop what we are doing and get down to LA to see this stuff (and you and Lance, of course ) ...if I had known, woulda coulda...

    Congrats on what looks like an excellent new camera body! You have a winner there and will try and make it down.
    Last edited by Egor; 2nd June 2015 at 08:06.
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    From DT site:

    It is the best autofocus any medium format camera has ever had.
    Please quantify and clarify.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Please quantify and clarify.
    I'd like to know too. Seeing as this looks very much like a regular sensor, it probably uses contrast-detect instead of phase-detect, similar to that in the A7R, difference being that regular CDAF has to use the same sensor to both focus and shoot, but this one is full-time AF. Contrast-detect AF is definitely much more accurate than regular methods, but as everyone knows it tends to be slower, which is why many cameras also offer on-sensor phase detect AF now, but then again, this one is full-time duty. Just speculating.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    6. CCD not CMOS. Makes you wonder if its economically viable to get a custom 80MP CMOS chip fabricated, or if they’ll just piggy back on whatever Sony produces for the broader market. Which, sadly, means chips that primarily perform well on DSLRs.

    Jim
    It's interesting, though, isn't it, that Phase One just partnered with Alpa (albeit on kits that don't include the option for movements)? The partnership does suggest plans for new backs that work well with a technical camera, at least down the road, or why bother with Alpa so soon before announcing a new DSLR system. Absent movements, there may be little point in using a technical camera instead of a high-end DSLR like the new XF (or Hasselblad X). Perhaps the large format lenses are enough better to justify the tech camera even shooting flat-planed, but I wonder. (Still shooting 4x5 film, myself, but hope springs eternal that I'll win the lottery, or otherwise get lucky, and buy one of these systems.)

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobalobo View Post
    It's interesting, though, isn't it, that Phase One just partnered with Alpa (albeit on kits that don't include the option for movements)? The partnership does suggest plans for new backs that work well with a technical camera, at least down the road, or why bother with Alpa so soon before announcing a new DSLR system. Absent movements, there may be little point in using a technical camera instead of a high-end DSLR like the new XF (or Hasselblad X).
    A fully integrated tech camera with digital movements and automatic lenses... that'd be a thing of beauty. The lack of automation is always going to be a hindrance, and the only way to get any useful amount of automation is to produce a sensor/body/lens combination that all "talk" to each other, but with three different companies making each component, it's no doubt hard to organize such a movement.

    Perhaps the large format lenses are enough better to justify the tech camera even shooting flat-planed, but I wonder. (Still shooting 4x5 film, myself, but hope springs eternal that I'll win the lottery, or otherwise get lucky, and buy one of these systems.)
    What I'd do for a Rodie to make an SLR lens, at least some sort of tilt-shift.

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    1. Upgrade Path$? Specifically DF+ to XF if DF+ less than 6months old?
    2. Seriously: less than 24hours notice to stop what we are doing and get down to LA to see this stuff (and you and Lance, of course ) ...if I had known, woulda coulda...

    Congrats on what looks like an excellent new camera body! You have a winner there and will try and make it down.
    1. $2k in value for your DF+.
    2. Maybe you can squeeze it in? I know it's a decently long drive for you. We weren't allowed to talk about this in advance, so I do apologize for the short notice.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    I just saw the price for the 50MP XF kit--$41,000. That is quite an upgrade. I thought a Leica S system was expensive...

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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I just saw the price for the 50MP XF kit--$41,000. That is quite an upgrade. I thought a Leica S system was expensive...
    There is a fairly large range of pricing.

    An XF Body, viewfinder, Schneider LS lens, and IQ140 digital back is XF IQ1 has a list price of $20,990.

    Also IQ1 backs and Credo backs have been reduced in price so the entry level in Phase One also just went down.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Talking Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    From DT site:



    Please quantify and clarify.
    It's best by miles
    www.endacavanagh.com
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    I'd like to know too. Seeing as this looks very much like a regular sensor, it probably uses contrast-detect instead of phase-detect, similar to that in the A7R, difference being that regular CDAF has to use the same sensor to both focus and shoot, but this one is full-time AF. Contrast-detect AF is definitely much more accurate than regular methods, but as everyone knows it tends to be slower, which is why many cameras also offer on-sensor phase detect AF now, but then again, this one is full-time duty. Just speculating.
    Normal contrast-detection-in-live-view is done by large general-purpose sensors. This is a one megapixel sensor with a much faster readout and much more specialized purpose.

    To my knowledge, no one else uses a system like this for focusing in a pro SLR.

    You'll just have to pick up an XF and put the button to see how fast it is. We hope to do some tests to show accuracy versus other bodies. But we're on the road a ton the next month for our DT XF Events in LA, New York, Chicago, DC, Boston, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Philly, San Francisco, and Birmingham so I'm not sure we'll have a chance to do the kind of formal test I'm comfortable posting. In the meanwhile I have my less-than-scientific answer of "it's very accurate" from pointing it at various things, including some tricky subject matter, and having it be tack sharp while shooting wide open.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One News: XF Body, IQ3 backs, 35LS, 120LS, C1 8.3, Website

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    It's best by miles
    Realistically it's the best by millimeters. That is to say, that with 50/60/80mp digital backs the difference between [tack sharp] and [only okay] is often a mm or two when shooting wide open.

    So the improved accuracy (and per lens focus trimming) is all about getting that last mm to drop perfectly into place, all without taking any extra time.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Pricing Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Obviously a lot to like, but a few stand out issues for me are:

    Their line up is now looking as muddled as GMs before the crash of ’08/'09. So (deep breath) we have ... the same chip between the 150, 250 and 350,
    Jim
    And we could add the Credo 50 to this list, I believe, all with the same chip. The Credo 50 and IQ 150 lack wifi, which is, I'd imagine, a big deal on a tech camera. Not surprising then that the IQ 250 and IQ 350 cost more. But if I understand the pricing, it's many thousands of dollars more. My two year old Panasonic LF1, a $250 pocket camera, includes a connection to my smart phone that will then serve as a live viewfinder and remote control. A perfectly silly feature for a pocket camera, but my point is that the whole camera costs only $250, suggesting that the wifi technology is not that complicated. Of course I understand that the technical requirements for a high performance $30,000 back would be greater, but the pricing suggests something other than cost coverage for the feature. Just saying.

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    Re: Pricing Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobalobo View Post
    And we could add the Credo 50 to this list, I believe, all with the same chip. The Credo 50 and IQ 150 lack wifi, which is, I'd imagine, a big deal on a tech camera. ....
    Um, no. If you've shot the Credo 50 or IQ150 on a tech camera, the lack of wifi is not a big deal. Both are CMOS MFDBs and their live view capabilities are excellent.

    Of course, if you want to tether via USB3 to a Surface Pro---that capability will snuff anything that you can view via wifi on any system. Viewing full resolution RAWs at 100% to 400% on C1Pro8 on a Surface Pro versus JPEG jaggies. Not even close. Just saying.

    It's expensive to be in Dante's Inferno...and even more so with the latest greatest offerings.

    ken

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    Re: Pricing Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobalobo View Post
    And we could add the Credo 50 to this list, I believe, all with the same chip. The Credo 50 and IQ 150 lack wifi, which is, I'd imagine, a big deal on a tech camera. Not surprising then that the IQ 250 and IQ 350 cost more. But if I understand the pricing, it's many thousands of dollars more.
    The IQ3 offers a lot more on top of the Credo than just WiFi.
    - automatic horizon correction
    - automatic perspective correction
    - heat map for zone exposure metering
    - clipping indicator (in addition to exposure warning)
    - integration of the XF interface on the back itself
    - exposure calculator
    - focus mask
    - auto ISO
    - histogram and level shown on XF
    - temperature graph
    - remote control using Capture Pilot
    - 5 year warranty (including on the body/lenses purchased at the same time) including loaner during any service

    and of course WiFi
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Pricing Observation

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Of course, if you want to tether via USB3 to a Surface Pro---that capability will snuff anything that you can view via wifi on any system. Viewing full resolution RAWs at 100% to 400% on C1Pro8 on a Surface Pro versus JPEG jaggies. Not even close. Just saying.

    ken
    Well, I already have a Surface Pro 3 and that's a start. All I need now is another $41,000 and I'm set. More seriously, my thoughts on the importance of wifi for a tech camera comes from my experience with large format film. It is cumbersome to bring and go under cloth to see the focusing screen, however sharp and clear, and having the image on an ipad that could be viewed by moving the device to the shade would seem a real convenience. If not, though, then I'm even more surprised Phase One can charge what it does for wifi connectivity.

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