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Thread: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

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    Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Hi guys,

    since Sony is providing the equivalent of a 35mm sized mini "40 MPX digital back" with live view and presumably excellent dynamic range, what options do current Alpa system owners have should they want to combine the A7RR with tech cam lenses?

    My understanding is:
    -> Cambo and Arca provide solutions
    -> Alpa for some reason not?

    Secondly, any experience regarding viability of such an approach with the old A7R? I remember someone always interjecting the issue of "crosstalk" but from the tests that were posted it didn't seem to be such a big issue?

    Also it seems that the fact that this new sensor is backlit may provide a remedy to this issue?

    Exciting times!

    Best,

    P

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    You can read about the Arca DSLR2 and A7r here:

    http://www.getdpi.com/wp/2015/02/arca-swiss-dslr-2/

    This covers the older DSLR2 but results with a Univeralis would be pretty much the same. The Cross talk issue on the 35mm Sony chip is there, however I did not find it to be a huge issue until around 18mm of shift.

    The Univeralis would be considerably lighter than the DSLR2.

    Paul Caldwell

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    John Milich made an ALPA lens adapter for the Actus.

    See http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...tus#post626582

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    like this? standard alpa mount lens on the Actus

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Since Sony is providing the equivalent of a 35mm sized mini "40 MPX digital back" with live view and presumably excellent dynamic range, what options do current Alpa system owners have should they want to combine the A7RR with tech cam lenses?
    I don't think it's possible on an Alpa since the grip on the A7R would push the sensor back too far and thus extend the flange focal length too much (even beyond the generous 44mm of the Canon EF mount).

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    I don't think it's possible on an Alpa since the grip on the A7R would push the sensor back too far and thus extend the flange focal length too much (even beyond the generous 44mm of the Canon EF mount).

    So the setup posted by JIM does not work out?

    @Jim: Many thanks! Did not know that there is an adapter for the actus!!

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    There's an Actus for Sony cams: https://www.cambo.com/en/news/cambo-...-introduction/

    The ALPA lens mount was made by John (jlm). It's not an ALPA camera, but he's made an adapter to use ALPA mount lenses: ALPA front, Actus, Sony body.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Hi-

    The Actus works with Alpa SB34 lenses and the Sony E mount cameras. with JLM's Alpa to Actus adapter. LB and SB17 mounts will not focus at infinity.


    Here's an image with the Actus , JLM Alpa adapter, Alpa 50mm SB34 and a Sony a7r with some rear fall.

    jim

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    So the setup posted by JIM does not work out?
    No, it's great if you have lenses mounted for Alpa and you want to use them on a Cambo Actus. Problem is, you have to buy an Actus.

    If you want to mount a Sony A7R to the rear of an Alpa body (and use your Alpa mounted lenses this way) then there will be issues. Both the Aptus and the A/S Universalis aren't troubled by the grip on the Sony body; this wouldn't be the case with Alpa bodies. Even the TC would be problematic from what I can see.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    ALPA already showed the integration to the Novoflex bellows system during last Photokina not making a big fuss out of it:

    http://www.alpa.ch/en/article/alpano...ter-with-hooks


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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    to clarify, my actus DB rig is fitted with a hasselblad CFV-50c digital back. the cmos allows live view focus. with various adapters, it works with lenses with no helicoids, combo wrs, alpa and arca lenses with helicoids; they will all focus at infinity

    the combo actus also makes a version that takes the sony Ar camera, but that was not what i worked with
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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Quote Originally Posted by alpenblick View Post
    ALPA already showed the integration to the Novoflex bellows system during last Photokina not making a big fuss out of it...[/IMG]
    There wasn't a big fuss because, let's face it, it's a set of adapted Novoflex bellows - and the bellows themselves have been around for ages.

    Also, if you want to tilt the front, you have to rotate the whole rig 90 degrees - not exactly practical outside of the studio.

    With Alpa mounted lenses and the urge to use an A7R (or Canon/Nikon/Leica/Sony/MFT or Fuji) - the Cambo Actus + ACB-ALP adapter (or equivalent) - looks like a hugely attractive option. N.B. Since the Alpa mount (with helical) effectively acts as an extension tube, you'll need to check that you can hit infinity with whatever lenses you intend to use.

    They are also about to introduce an EF lens adapter (for mirrorless bodies and DBs) that can control the aperture.

    Last edited by f8orbust; 12th June 2015 at 06:30.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Can't wait to see how the wide angle response has improved thanks to the BSI structure:



    I'm hoping it has improved a lot (which is quite likely), and that the technology will soon appear in MF sensors, hopefully while Hasselblad still makes attractively priced CFV backs like the current CFV-50c. I'd love to be able to stay with my Digitar range and upgrade to live view CMOS without sacrificing a ton of movement flexibility like you have to do today. I think the A7r II is great news for the tech cam segment, BSI coming to a larger size much earlier than I thought it would.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    They are also about to introduce an EF lens adapter (for mirrorless bodies and DBs) that can control the aperture.

    Trouble is that Canon mount has been delayed and supposedly no idea when it is due for release. I was told it is something to do with getting the electronics compact enough or something. When this mount ships, I'm all over the A7rII and Actus but until that day the idea of a Metabones adapter does not thrill me and will keep my TS-E's firmly attached to a Canon body.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    To me the solution will possibly come with Cambo or Arca or both get their Canon adapters/electronics working. Arca has the FS shutter, not sure if Cambo has a shutter yet. So in theory, the Arca Universalis/FS shutter/Canon Mount/electronics will allow the 17mm and 24mm TS-E glass.

    To me as a wide lens user, 14, up to 24 on 35mm sensors and 28mm-40mm MF full frame sensor, moving the current retrofocus lenses from Rodenstock (the 32mm is the widest you can go I believe) means you really still don't have much of a wide solution even shifting the 40mm or 32mm Rodenstock within reason (say 15mm) would not give the same field of view as a 14mm on the 35mm Sony Sensor. Might get close with the 32mm if you have one. The 35SK may work better with this new sensor as it did not shift well on the A7r.

    For telephoto needs, mid or full the solutions are much better.

    Once the excellent Canon wide TS-E lenses can be used, the picture gets very interesting. Hope to see that sooner than later from both platforms.

    Paul

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    I've always been an avid Arca shooter but the Cambo solution with Canon lens control built into the lens adapter (if they get it working) is a much nicer one than the two box solution from Arca.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Well - how about this ? HCam Master TS - starts FF EF-L 11-24mm second proposed lens Canon 16-35mm/4 IS USM
    Shift bidirectional 2x15mm
    Tilt 10 degrees, full 360 degrees rotation, parallaxfree.
    Mounted on our HCam TS Rail
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Can't wait to see how the wide angle response has improved thanks to the BSI structure. I'm hoping it has improved a lot (which is quite likely), and that the technology will soon appear in MF sensors, hopefully while Hasselblad still makes attractively priced CFV backs like the current CFV-50c...
    If the BSI structure enhances wide angle response significantly and HB bring it to market as a 'full frame' sensor in a reasonably priced package ... then count me in.

    The nightmare scenario is that the chip delivers on all counts ... but only appears in a $50k P1 back.

    My guess is we'll find out in early 2016.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    The nightmare scenario is that the chip delivers on all counts ... but only appears in a $50k P1 back.
    Plus one on that, that would truly be a nightmare.

    If the sensor appears only in 645 FF it's unfortunately quite likely that price will be up there. I don't find it likely that a CFV back with 54x41mm CMOS would be priced similarly as the current CFV-50c.

    Any affordable back will probably have a 44x33mm sensor, which make wide angle options a bit reduced. On the other hand, if it works with an SK28 I'd get 22mm 135-equivalent and I could live with that I guess, and I could still keep my SK35 - SK180 range of lenses, and I would have a silly range of movements.

    I'd love to see a return of the 48x36/49x37mm format but that just ain't going to happen. I know from a source on Hasselblad that they would have preferred to have that size as an option (the H system is in part designed for 49x37), but they could not get that out of Sony. Hassy is the only MFD maker that have an interest in 49x37 and if they can't get it it will disappear.

    44x33 and 54x41 are the formats we'll see, and I think 54x41 will be reserved to the highest end products with corresponding pricing, while 44x33 may see some more competitive pricing thanks to Pentax and competition from below. 44x33 would work out for me though if I get the wide angle response. I would probably not rush to buy though, I have GG workflow in my blood now and the 50MP 49x37 Kodak CCD works well for my shooting style.

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    Re: Sony A7RII and Alpa - any tech cam solution available?

    Cambo does make a Alpa front standard for the Actus, now. It's listed strictly for the DB version, likely because that's the logical use for it, but the lens boards are the same for both the mini and DB from what I can tell. The problem you're likely to run in to, depending on the focal length of the lens, is flange distance, particularly if you shoot with anything much wider than a 90. Even if you go for the fixed WA rear standard, 18mm + the depth of the Actus mount is gone from your flange distance. As I understand it, the flange distance is measured from basically the back of the shutter. Since that's moved forward with the helicoid and box on the Alpa mount, it's possible you won't achieve infinity even with the standards together on some lenses. A DB would give you the breathing room you need to get to infinity with shorter lenses and allow for a greater range of movements on the front standard.

    If you can and are willing to remount your lenses on Actus boards, it's well worth it. If you with the standard kit with rotating mount, 50mm lenses seem to be about the limit where you can hit infinity and still have full range of movement on the front and rear standards. The rear element of my Schneider 47 sits inside the rear standard at infinity, so it's movements are limited. I get a good amount of focus range out of my Rode 135 with the same set up, and that's the longest lens I've tried.

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