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Thread: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

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    C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    Hi all,

    This is perhaps a silly questions for all those who are used to using C1, but I'm at the beginning of a transition from Lightroom to C1 to try get the best out of my (yet to be delivered) Credo 60, so please humour me...

    In Lightroom, I'm used to fine tuning sharpening by holding the alt/option key (Mac) to see the image in black and white, then moving the sliders. This makes the radius and detail settings very apparent, and the intensity of the sharpening easier to get just right. The great thing about Lightroom is that it's very, very fast (as least on my computers,) and there is zero wait for the preview to update.

    With C1, I'm finding it really hard to judge where I am because the workflow is quite different and it's slow to render an updated preview whenever I change settings. I don't know if there's any way to effectively emulate what I do in Lightroom, but I might as well try to understand in a more detailed way how the settings are best dialed in and find a new workflow specific to this software. This will involve a lot of practice, but I thought some people here might be able to share what they think is the best starting point for basic pre-sharpeing and noise reduction for images shot at base ISO or 100 ISO on the 60mpx Dalsa sensors?

    I'm honestly shooting in the dark, so any recommendations or advise would be grately appreciated!

    Thanks,

    TJV

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    I tend to leave the sharpening to the defaults for the Phase 160 & 260. That is 140 for the sharpening setting. You may also find that Phase One has a bit too much of default noise reduction which should be at 50 and most times turn that off or way down as long as I am at base iso or 100.

    You also may find that increasing structure might pull out some of the finer details

    Edit, I also forgot to add, that in Photoshop, after the raw is processed in C1 often I will still add a bit of extra sharpening with Focus Magic, deconvolution, as I like the overall extra details it brings out.

    Paul
    Last edited by Paul2660; 2nd July 2015 at 07:43.

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    I guess we all do it differently. I turn sharpening off in C1 and Phocus and, in Photoshop, conduct a raw pre-sharpen using Nik sharpening software and then a custom sharpening layer for either display (jpeg) or for printing (inkjet) using the Nik output sharpening plug-in. I reckon you get a better result with two sharpening passes and, certainly, a better print if you sharpen specifically for your printing context.

    However, having moved to the IQ260 recently, I seem to require much less sharpening in the output stage - the raw-pre-sharpen does most of the work. This is probably only useful if you use PS for post and are prepared to buy the Nik tools.

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    You may also find that Phase One has a bit too much of default noise reduction which should be at 50 and most times turn that off or way down as long as I am at base iso or 100.
    Paul, when reducing the noise reduction levels, I assume you're backing off the "Details" slider too. C1 is a love-hate situation on its sharpness - love the sharpness, but it induces alot of jaggies and harsh edges on small specular highlights (and often clips them in the process). "Details" is the main culprit.

    I like to do two version of the edit - one with everything sharpened and then a second with sharpness and detail recovery turned off. Then stack in photoshop with the "soft" version under need. Use the eraser where C1 sharpness created ugliness and let the lower layer appear through. This is can be a tedious process and the amount of work is proportional to the pixel count (larger files = more searching).

    I wish C1 would add a "shoulder" to their sharpening, meaning, it would be lessened the higher RGB value. This is what I'm effectively doing in Photoshop. If C1 did it in their software, it would reduce my photoshop time.

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    Quote Originally Posted by John Black View Post
    Paul, when reducing the noise reduction levels, I assume you're backing off the "Details" slider too. C1 is a love-hate situation on its sharpness - love the sharpness, but it induces alot of jaggies and harsh edges on small specular highlights (and often clips them in the process). "Details" is the main culprit.

    I like to do two version of the edit - one with everything sharpened and then a second with sharpness and detail recovery turned off. Then stack in photoshop with the "soft" version under need. Use the eraser where C1 sharpness created ugliness and let the lower layer appear through. This is can be a tedious process and the amount of work is proportional to the pixel count (larger files = more searching).

    I wish C1 would add a "shoulder" to their sharpening, meaning, it would be lessened the higher RGB value. This is what I'm effectively doing in Photoshop. If C1 did it in their software, it would reduce my photoshop time.
    Hi John:

    You bring up a good point, I overlooked. Yes, if the image is loaded with a lot of finer tree limbs against the blue sky, I will often back off details as C1 to me can easily halo on these parts of an image, but if you watch it, it can do a wonderfully clean job. I can get a bit carried away with sharpening, but since I discovered Focus Magic, I will back off in C1 and follow later in Photoshop with FM, as to me it can give an excellent final look to the image.

    The final pass with deconvolution sharpening really pulls out the finer details.

    Paul
    Paul Caldwell
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    www.photosofarkansas.com
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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    Thanks guys,

    Coming from a workflow nearly 100% film and scanning with an Imacon 949, it's going to take me some time to get used to C1 and the finer points of digital capture editing. I think most of my problem here is that C1 is so slow to update the preview after adjustments so it's harder to quickly assess what's happening when changing settings.

    I must admit though, I don't know what deconvolution sharpening is... Is there anywhere I can read up about it or see some examples of outcomes from that specific sharpening workflow?

    Also, I did notice that default noise reduction in C1 seems very high, to the point of eradicating fine detail. Do people generally set up their own presets for a starting point, or what?
    Last edited by tjv; 2nd July 2015 at 12:59.

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    I can't really get too technical on how it works, deconvolution. However both Focus Magic and the Topaz plugin Infocus use this form of sharpening. Also the Rae converter Iridient Developer offers it as one of its sharpening algorithms. Focus magic and the topaz plugging can be downloaded from their respective websites for trials. I believe Iridient also has a trial period it is MAC only.

    You can also read a lot more about it over on LuLa in the digital image forum.

    Paul

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    Hi,

    Deconvolution tries to restore the original image. If you have a single point of light in your picture it will be reproduced as a small 'blob', probably having most intensity in the center. This blob is known as the Point Spread Function (PSF). So you get the resulting image by "convolving" the original image with the point spread function.

    Now, if the PSF is known, the image could be convolved with the inverse of the PSF, and the original image could be restored. Now, the PSF is not normally know, but it can often be estimated with a gaussian (that is a "bell curve"). Some programs can estimate the PSF from the image itself. Astronomers can use the image of a star as an approximation of the PSF and use that PSF to deconvolve a planet.

    A major problem with deconvolution is the presence of noise. Simple inverse filtering enhances noise in absurdum. So, deconvolution methods are normally much more complex iterative processes, mostly in order to reduce amplification of noise.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Thanks guys,


    I must admit though, I don't know what deconvolution sharpening is... Is there anywhere I can read up about it or see some examples of outcomes from that specific sharpening workflow?

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    Others have very good responses and I will only add that I have a preset in C1 with 300 strength and 0.5 radius. I find that this is a little finer (less blunt) than the standard C1 sharpening strength and resolves a little more micro detail. Its always best that you experiment for yourself.

    Victor

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    Re: C1 sharpening starting point for IQ160 / P65+ / Credo 60

    Thank you to all those who have replied, either here or via PM.
    I am still waiting for my back to arrive, so haven't had a chance to trial things out properly yet. When I get to go out and shoot some real world images, I'll report back!

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