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Thread: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

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    Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    We've just posted part 1 of a 3 part article on Ultra Fast Lenses that work with the XF / DF+ / DF (some with significant limitations, others natively).

    You can read it here: Ultra Fast Lenses for Phase One XF / DF+ / DF

    Some photos from a wedding I shot in Agde, France and Cadaques, Spain using two of these lenses (Contax Zeiss 80/2 and Schneider 130/2 IMAX lens) with a Phase One DF+ and IQ260 digital back:







    Those two lenses...


    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    We've just posted part 1 of a 3 part article on Ultra Fast Lenses that work with the XF / DF+ / DF (some with significant limitations, others natively).

    You can read it here: Ultra Fast Lenses for Phase One XF / DF+ / DF

    Some photos from a wedding I shot in Agde, France and Cadaques, Spain using two of these lenses (Contax Zeiss 80/2 and Schneider 130/2 IMAX lens) with a Phase One DF+ and IQ260 digital back:







    Those two lenses...



    Hi Doug, can I ask how you are mounting the lenses on the XF? Is there an adaptor required?.

    Sincerely,

    Bahr

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Contax-lenses on Mamiya-camera...? Just interested in how you did this.
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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Can the Mamiya 645 80mm f1.9 be used? And of course the Pentax 6x7 105mm f2.4?

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Can the Mamiya 645 80mm f1.9 be used? And of course the Pentax 6x7 105mm f2.4?
    XF is backwards compatible with all Mamiya 645 lenses, no?

    That 80/1.9 is a fabulous lens. For those without one, don't hang about as they'll probably all get hoovered up and converted for the Alexa 65

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Having looked at the article, I see that the Mamiya f1.9 won't mount on the new XF - which seems a real shame. What have they done to the new mount to have that result?

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Having looked at the article, I see that the Mamiya f1.9 won't mount on the new XF - which seems a real shame. What have they done to the new mount to have that result?
    Huh?!

    That's insane!

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by weinlamm View Post
    Contax-lenses on Mamiya-camera...? Just interested in how you did this.
    We had it remounted just for this article. We are considering renting it out, but depending on whether there is interest in that or not we may also sell it.

    For clarity, a standard off-the-shelf Contax 80mm lens, without physical modification, can NOT be used on any Phase One body. Once remounted/modified it can no longer fit on a Contax.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by bahr View Post
    Hi Doug, can I ask how you are mounting the lenses on the XF? Is there an adaptor required?.

    Sincerely,

    Bahr
    Absolutely.

    We physically remounted the Schneider 130 IMAX lens and the Contax 80mm f/2 lens into Phase One mounts. As described in the article there are significant limitations (e.g. no autofocus, no aperture control). But the look / draw is very unique.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Can the Mamiya 645 80mm f1.9 be used? And of course the Pentax 6x7 105mm f2.4?
    The Pentax 67 105mm f/2.4 should absolutely work but we do not have a copy of this lens. If you have one and are going to be in the NYC area we'd be glad to buy the appropriate adapter, and provide the body/back combination so that we can test the lens together.

    It's a bit slow at f/2.4 compared to the rest of the lenses in the article, but I've heard some good things about it and would love to include it in a surprise-part-4 of this article.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Having looked at the article, I see that the Mamiya f1.9 won't mount on the new XF - which seems a real shame. What have they done to the new mount to have that result?
    Agreed, real shame.

    Looks like the new communication pins extend into an area of the lens mount that most legacy lenses did not use, but a few did. We're planning on investigating whether we can shave down a bit of metal from these lenses to make them compatible, but it's not our highest priority at the moment.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Dear Dough,

    Thank you for a really great writeup on fast lenses!

    Can you check the 80mm f1.9 again please?

    I just bough the 80mm f1.9 for the specific reason of using it on my XF that I have on order.

    Comparing my Mamiya 35mm AF to my 80mm f1.9, there seem to be absolutely nothing that protrudes on the 80mm f1.9 in the area where electronic contacts on the 35mm AF are located.

    The only thing that protrudes is the aperture pin on the 80mm f1.9, and that is in the same location on all Mamiya lenses, and not in the area where contacts are located.

    Best regards

    Trond

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by trond View Post
    Dear Dough,

    Thank you for a really great writeup on fast lenses!

    Can you check the 80mm f1.9 again please?

    I just bough the 80mm f1.9 for the specific reason of using it on my XF that I have on order.

    Comparing my Mamiya 35mm AF to my 80mm f1.9, there seem to be absolutely nothing that protrudes on the 80mm f1.9 in the area where electronic contacts on the 35mm AF are located.

    The only thing that protrudes is the aperture pin on the 80mm f1.9, and that is in the same location on all Mamiya lenses, and not in the area where contacts are located.

    Best regards

    Trond
    Our 80/1.9 does not fit either XF I tried it on. I am quite sure of that. It's maybe possible it would mount if I forced it very hard, but I have no desire to find out, as any damage to the electronic pins of the body would not make my boss very happy . In comparison other 645 lenses we tried mount absolutely normally.

    Perhaps when you get your 80/1.9 and XF you can confirm your pair does not fit either. It's always possible there were multiple subtle-and-unlabeled variations of this lens over time, so maybe yours will fit even though ours did not.

    We actually did remove the aperture-coupling pin from our copy (not a hard operation) and that did not change anything.

    It's very, very close to fitting, and it's possible shaving some metal from the mount would make it work. But we have not done this and do not know for sure. We've also made inquiries with Phase One. We'll let you know if we learn anything valuable. If you learn anything from your combo/exploration let us know here too .
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Thanks for the advice Dough!

    I will certainly be very carful if I dare to try it.

    I expect to get my XF and IQ380 in the end of July.

    Hopefully, you or someone else have figured it out before then.

    Best regards

    Trond

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The Pentax 67 105mm f/2.4 should absolutely work but we do not have a copy of this lens. If you have one and are going to be in the NYC area we'd be glad to buy the appropriate adapter, and provide the body/back combination so that we can test the lens together.

    It's a bit slow at f/2.4 compared to the rest of the lenses in the article, but I've heard some good things about it and would love to include it in a surprise-part-4 of this article.
    Really!?! Is it that slow because there are clearly two Schneider f/2.8 lenses in the comparison...

    Maybe you should have stopped at the proclamation that you don't have a copy of the lens for the test instead of taking jabs at the competition that you are not a vendor for. It comes off as unprofessional/disingenuous/extremely biased. A great product will sell itself to those that can afford it and you don't have to bash a product to make another look better.
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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Dear Doug,

    This message is more to PhaseOne than to you.

    I really appreciate your contribution to this and other forums dealing with P1 products.

    DT is "responsible" for selling a lot of PhaseOne equipment well beyond the US border, and PhaseOne should thank you for that!

    I recognize that DT, after spending time and money on modification of lenses, cannot give away free advice to the "whole world".

    This is PhaseOne's responsibility, but they are not recognizing is as their responsibility.

    The situation is very unfortunate for many XF users, and I myself specifically purchased the 80mm/f1.9, 24mm Fish Eye and 50mm Shift for use on the XF.

    It has not been possible to get any info on the modification from dealers here in Europe.

    Having failed to find a source for the modification, I opened a support case through my dealer a month ago when I got my XF/IQ380, but so far there is only silence from PhaseOne.

    I think the time now is well overdue for PhaseOne to issue a compatibility list of legacy lenses, like the list compiled fro the DF+, and to comment on what can and cannot be done to modify lenses.

    I think most users assumed that the compatibility was the same as for DF+.

    Now, I do not dare to mount any MF lens on my XF in fear of damaging a very expensive camera.

    Having spent north of 60k$ on camera, back and lenses, I think PhaseOne should not just ignore me and refuse to answer what seems to be a simple question.

    Best regards

    Trond

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    We've just posted part 1 of a 3 part article on Ultra Fast Lenses that work with the XF / DF+ / DF (some with significant limitations, others natively).

    You can read it here: Ultra Fast Lenses for Phase One XF / DF+ / DF
    Thanks for doing this. Very interesting to see. Especially the 130/2. It draws beautifully, but seems it can't quite keep up in resolution with the 80/2. And you probably are better off with an IQ *50 body if you want to nail focus every time, but then you lose the sensor size.
    The rendering of the 80/2 is quite well known ofcourse and it is good to see it works well with this back. It is always interesting to see how this lens has two faces, with the super buttery bokeh up close and the more 'technical' look when focussed in the mid range.

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by trond View Post
    Dear Doug,
    I recognize that DT, after spending time and money on modification of lenses, cannot give away free advice to the "whole world".
    Not true; we're glad to help. Email me.

    Quote Originally Posted by trond View Post
    I myself specifically purchased the 80mm/f1.9, 24mm Fish Eye and 50mm Shift for use on the XF.
    I know the 50mm shift and 80/1.9 require modification to mount on the XF. I have a client that was going to test his 24mm fish and get back to me; I'll check in on that, or you can share your own results.

    Quote Originally Posted by trond View Post
    Now, I do not dare to mount any MF lens on my XF in fear of damaging a very expensive camera.
    I don't think you need to fear damaging the XF; simply put a lens on and gently turn it. If it easily mounts into place it does not require modification. Just don't try to force it if it comes against a hard stop.

    ----

    We've been keeping an internal list of known (and unknown) lenses. Let me go put that information into a blog article and I'll be back to share the link. If anyone else has manual focus lenses on this generation and can share whether they mount or not please feel free to post that information here and I'll add it (with your permission) on our blog as well.

    Update: here is a blog article we'll update as we (and our customers) test more legacy lenses: Modifying older lenses for use on the XF - DT Blog
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 26th August 2015 at 07:41.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    Thanks for doing this. Very interesting to see. Especially the 130/2. It draws beautifully, but seems it can't quite keep up in resolution with the 80/2. And you probably are better off with an IQ *50 body if you want to nail focus every time, but then you lose the sensor size.
    The rendering of the 80/2 is quite well known ofcourse and it is good to see it works well with this back. It is always interesting to see how this lens has two faces, with the super buttery bokeh up close and the more 'technical' look when focussed in the mid range.
    Thanks for the kind words.

    Indeed the Contax lens is quite interesting.

    Not one of the older lenses can handle the full resolution of the 80mp sensors, but I don't think one shoots a lens like this for pristine technical quality. You use them for the draw which is unique and interesting. If you want pristine technical quality you'd want a lens like the Schneider 110/2.8 LS.

    The next part of the article will be up in the next few days, covering the Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 which I used extensively at a wedding last weekend. It's a sleeper lens which is lighter, smaller, and cheaper than the other lenses listed and has it's own unique look.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Ultra Fast Glass for XF/DF+ (Contax 80/2, Schneider 130/2)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Not true; we're glad to help. Email me.

    Update: here is a blog article we'll update as we (and our customers) test more legacy lenses: Modifying older lenses for use on the XF - DT Blog
    Dear Doug,

    Thank you very much for sharing this info!

    P1 finally responded to my service request within one hour of my post, only to tell me that the mount needed modification, but refused to inform me what modification.

    I have number og legacy MF lenses, and will try the tonight and let you know if they mount or not.

    Best regards

    Trond

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