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Thread: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

  1. #51
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Can Leica S lenses be used in some way with the Aptus, or is there a problem with the electronic control of the aperture? Would offer more limited movements than actuall tech lenses, but pretty amazing edge to edge performance I imagine.
    Hey. I have found that if you stop down an S lens on an S camera to a given aperture, and then remove the lens, it will stay at that aperture. It is not particularly convenient for heavy use, but if you just want to mount an S lens with an adapter (good luck on finding one!), it should be usable at any aperture.

    In terms of bang for the buck in MFD, the new S body promotions are pretty incredible. I upgraded to an S a few months ago, and still have my S2. I was planning on selling it...doesn't seem to make much sense anymore! The Leica store Miami is selling a new S-E and 70mm CS lens for 10,295 dollars, or 5995 for body only. That is an incredible value. It may be lower in MP than the A7rII or Pentax, but it is an incredible image making system. The lenses are better than either system's lenses, and the image quality is superb -- 16bit color vs 11+7 in the Sony, full weather sealing, a much more ergonomic body etc etc. I use an A7S alongside the Leica, and while the A7S can do some amazing things, it is a frustrating experience to use in comparison to the S. Granted, even though the body cost is much lower now, the lenses are still very expensive...but I believe they are a good investment. Depending on your particular photographic needs, it could be a good option. If you plan on working with strobes, the CS function will be very compelling, and the overall image quality of the system packs a punch that is a lot greater than the comparatively modest (for 2015!) 37.5mp would indicate.

    I think all three are exceptionally good cameras, and picking the right one is going to be more about which particular specs are more important to you, rather than there being a clear winner. Ergonomics and lens options should also be very carefully evaluated, preferably in person. Personally I did not really pay attention to the S system until I got a chance to handle it...then it all started to make sense! I would say a bit of the opposite about the Sony. They are fabulous on paper and are capable of great results, but they are certainly a lot more frustrating to handle than the medium format or film cameras I am used to.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Hi,

    Good write up and you have some great images on your home page! Pentax has good and proven reputation for weather sealing.

    It would be nice if you could post some raw image showing the raw compression artefacts you are mentioning. I don't have a Sony A7 series camera, just A99 and it may have a different compression scheme, my guess is it doesn't have the 7-bit delta coding over 16 pixels stuff.

    The only banding issue I had observed on any of my images was actually on the Phase One P45+ back and it was caused by the colour profile. Interestingly the same type of banding was present in three different profiles using two different raw converters. But the problem disappeared with Adobe Standard Profile. I also generated a DCP profile with Anders Torger's DCamProf and that profile was OK, too. The other raw converter that I tested was Capture One.

    I have only seen two published examples of artefacts caused by Sony's raw compression, and in both case it is caused by the Delta coding, I would say.



    The other one is this one:


    So, if the artefacts you see are different from the samples above, it would be worth exploration.

    Best regards
    Erik





    Quote Originally Posted by larkis View Post
    I have two A7r's and a Pentax 645D and 645Z. When I got the A7r's, they were a bigger bang for the buck than the 645D in terms of portability, predictable focusing, and lens options and in some cases resolution (due to the ability to get the focus spot on through live view). The downside was the raw file compression and the lack of a reliable build for the Sony bodies. For example mine gave out in Antarctica while the 645D kept on ticking, having been exposed to humid jungles and a typhoon in Japan over the years I had it. Some of the small buttons and switches on the back of the A7r are already loose and will probably stop functioning properly in the next few months.

    There camera reliability/build quality and things such as dual card slots are often forgotten in bang for the buck type of discussions. It all depends on what you value when shooting and how much demand you put on your gear. If you are going to some extreme locations, the weight of the system matters, but a solid non toy built camera can matter more at the end of the day. So will the post processing potential of the files when you get back. In my case, most of the files I have shot with the A7r in dense mountain fog or rain exhibit mushy color areas and a big loss of the subtleties that make such scenes come across in a final print. In such cases the bang for the buck totally swings back to the Pentax system.

    I assume the differences between the A7rII and the 645Z will be about the same as they were between the 645D and the original A7r. The 645Z will be the workhorse I take on pre planned shoots, and the A7rII will be the camera I always have in my backpack for the unexpected shots and for higher altitude trips where a heavy camera kit is basically out of the question without a dedicated porter.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    Good write up and you have some great images on your home page! Pentax has good and proven reputation for weather sealing.

    It would be nice if you could post some raw image showing the raw compression artefacts you are mentioning. I don't have a Sony A7 series camera, just A99 and it may have a different compression scheme, my guess is it doesn't have the 7-bit delta coding over 16 pixels stuff.

    The only banding issue I had observed on any of my images was actually on the Phase One P45+ back and it was caused by the colour profile. Interestingly the same type of banding was present in three different profiles using two different raw converters. But the problem disappeared with Adobe Standard Profile. I also generated a DCP profile with Anders Torger's DCamProf and that profile was OK, too. The other raw converter that I tested was Capture One.

    I have only seen two published examples of artefacts caused by Sony's raw compression, and in both case it is caused by the Delta coding, I would say.



    The other one is this one:


    So, if the artefacts you see are different from the samples above, it would be worth exploration.

    Best regards
    Erik
    The sample you are showing with the artifacts around the star trail is stuff I have seen in similar images on my end as well. They are in line with some of the things I have experienced around other areas of contrast such as fine branches around tree tops in winter. As far as the banding goes, it could be related to profiles, but I have not found a profile that gets rid of it (i have even tried the huelight profiles for the A7R). If you PM me I can send you a few images this weekend that exhibit severe banding issues that travel along the image when the hue slider in Lightroom is moved. They are images that I have no authorization to put on a public forum but can send in an e-mail.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    I am hardly qualified but it will be an interesting comparison. I hope I am able to get it before my trip to Iceland at the end of August. Was planning to take the Pentax but will likely now take both systems to try them out.
    Replying to my own post

    I've finally managed to start looking at the Pentax and the A7RII closely. Been using the Sony these days for most of the events.

    I did a preliminary comparison of the two cameras today with the following lenses:

    Sony: Batis 25 f2, Sony ZA 55 1.8, Batis 85, Canon 100 f2.8 Macro, Canon 70-200 f4 IS (the last two with the Metabones IV adapter).

    Pentax: FA 45-85 f4.5 at 45 and then at 70mm (to simulate 55mm on the Sony), D-FA 55 2.8, FA 120 f4 macro and the FA 150 f2.8

    This is by no means a scientific test, but enough to satisfy my own needs.

    The target was an Edmund Optics resolution chart on a brick wall with surrounding shrubs/windows in my backyard. It is difficult to keep the same fov with all the lenses and that makes it even more subjective in some ways. The test chart served to compare the center of the image and the brick wall/window/door formed the basis of comparing the edges/corners.

    The images were all taken with the camera on a tripod with self-timer and in the case of the Pentax with the mirror up. I shot wide open and then at 1-stop intervals up to f11. Did not think going beyond that was useful.

    Will post some images later. It should be no surprise that the lens on the camera makes all the difference. The three native E-mount lenses on the sony obviously outperformed the Canon lenses with the adapter. That is expected I suppose since the two Batis lenses and the 55 1.8 are perhaps the sharpest in the Sony stable at present (I don't own the 90 2.8 macro).

    The Pentax suffers from a lack of new, high resolution lenses but the old ones still do a fabulous job.

    I am still evaluating all the images, for now, suffice it to say the differences are small and there is no absolute winner, unlike when I compared the Canon 5DSR to the Pentax.

    More to follow........
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by markymarkrb View Post
    Looking for a few preliminary opinions on a new system for myself. I do panoramic work and usually end up stitching. I sold my IQ180 and need a go to system that produces the best bang for the buck. Here is what I am currently thinking:


    Sony A7RII with Cambo Actus/Rodenstock HR 40mm (great glass but tough portable system in the weather) or
    Sony A7RII with Canon 24mm TSE (easy to use and good pano results) or
    Pentax 645Z with DA 28-45mm (still a great camera and glass and it is MF so you must know what you are doing and just using it makes beautiful pictures no matter what you point it at, haha, right?)

    Any opinions?

    Mark
    Mark

    I have used Cambo Actus with A7R2 and Rodenstock Enlarging lens, APO Rodagon etc. They are small, cheap and extremely high in resolution. However, the Actus is not as tightly tolerance as other technical camera such as Alpa, Arca, etc. So, sometimes, there's flex or tilt unintentionally introduced into the image and thus bluring the images...

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Have you had a chance to use the 28-45mm lens? Its fantastic and gives hope that Pentax will do a similarly good job with the replacement 45-85 and 80-160 lenses, which may be coming fairly soon. The 28-45 is the best wide angle landscape lens I have ever used, because it offers top end prime quality with zoom convenience and SR. I used mine hand held a lot in Iceland, especially for quick roadside shots where a tripod would have been and issue (not to mention the wind and cold). FWIW its clearly better at 28mm than any of the 25mm D FA samples I've worked on in LR, towards the edges.

    I haven't been that impressed by the edges of the 55mm D FA lens samples I have seen, whereas the 75mm FA seriously impressed me at landscape apertures. Its sharp as a tack everywhere, although it takes a few stops to get warmed up. Mine peaks at f9 across the field. Super happy with this inexpensive 200g wonder.

    I'm itching for Pentax to get moving with new lenses and will most likely jump on the new 80-160mm.

    It sound like Zeiss is working on an 18mm Batis, which will be interesting...


    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Replying to my own post

    I've finally managed to start looking at the Pentax and the A7RII closely. Been using the Sony these days for most of the events.

    I did a preliminary comparison of the two cameras today with the following lenses:

    Sony: Batis 25 f2, Sony ZA 55 1.8, Batis 85, Canon 100 f2.8 Macro, Canon 70-200 f4 IS (the last two with the Metabones IV adapter).

    Pentax: FA 45-85 f4.5 at 45 and then at 70mm (to simulate 55mm on the Sony), D-FA 55 2.8, FA 120 f4 macro and the FA 150 f2.8

    This is by no means a scientific test, but enough to satisfy my own needs.

    The target was an Edmund Optics resolution chart on a brick wall with surrounding shrubs/windows in my backyard. It is difficult to keep the same fov with all the lenses and that makes it even more subjective in some ways. The test chart served to compare the center of the image and the brick wall/window/door formed the basis of comparing the edges/corners.

    The images were all taken with the camera on a tripod with self-timer and in the case of the Pentax with the mirror up. I shot wide open and then at 1-stop intervals up to f11. Did not think going beyond that was useful.

    Will post some images later. It should be no surprise that the lens on the camera makes all the difference. The three native E-mount lenses on the sony obviously outperformed the Canon lenses with the adapter. That is expected I suppose since the two Batis lenses and the 55 1.8 are perhaps the sharpest in the Sony stable at present (I don't own the 90 2.8 macro).

    The Pentax suffers from a lack of new, high resolution lenses but the old ones still do a fabulous job.

    I am still evaluating all the images, for now, suffice it to say the differences are small and there is no absolute winner, unlike when I compared the Canon 5DSR to the Pentax.

    More to follow........

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I stitch with my 645Z and have no complaints. There is no taking away that whatever other 35mm sensor you are considering, the photo sites on the 645Z are what makes MF what it is. As for other cameras using the same Sony sensor as the 645Z, somehow the Pentax engineers have extracted more from that same sensor than the others-Hasselblad and Phase One. Must be in the translation-i.e., Sony=Japan and Pentax=Japan.
    I used a borrowed ALPA/CFV-50c/40HR quite recently and was able to do very nice stitches using a nodal point slide. I've since acquired an ALPA TC but now am wavering on what to put on it.

    As to the Sony sensor in all these camera bodies/backs: I've found my D810 to be better than the CFV-50c at opening up the shadow areas. I prefer the color out of the CFV-50c over the Nikon but as of this moment I trying to wrap my head around some other system with a different color response, i.e. not Sony based.

    But, if I were in the OP's shoes I would go the Pentax route.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    A few thoughts:

    Something I am considering going back to with the XF and 35mm LS, as the tech workflow is getting me down. Modern stitching software allows for a huge amount of leeway now.

    Paul
    I am waiting for my XF but do have the Schneider 40-80mm lens on my DF. I think it's a better choice over the new 35mm and it's extremely sharp. I got it for the same price as the new 35mm. Sure it would be great to have both but the cost is prohibitive for me anyway.

    Check out this full rez stitch from Telluride. Shot with IQ180 at 40mm on the 40-80mm.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f2mi5krrg...no-37.tif?dl=0
    Last edited by DougDolde; 9th November 2015 at 09:31.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Very curious to see your results Pradeep, I just took delivery of a 645z and I'm going to be trying similar tests to see what I'm gonna with the A7R2. I'm waiting now for the 75, 120 macro, and 150. I'm trying to decide what to do at the wide end.

    turtle: I was very close to buying the 55 considering the great reviews people have online. However I don't understand why, I have not seen a single full-size image sample of this lens that has even decent corner performance, from what I've seen it's straight up bad for landscape. Maybe the reviews are from portrait shooters that are looking at the rendering and center performance.

    How do you feel about the difference between the 35 A, and 28-45? Do you feel it's that much better regarding the cost difference? I don't mind shelling out for the 28-45 if it's a must have, but it's a huge chunk of change. My whole reason of switching to the 645z was to save money from the Phase system, the 28-45 would take a big bite out of that.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    The 28-45 is the best wide angle landscape lens I have ever used, because it offers top end prime quality with zoom convenience and SR.
    Does it trump the Hasselblad 35-90mm? I'm torn between the two: the Hasselblad 35-90mm on my lowly H3D-22 or the Pentax 28-45mm on my Pentax 645D (and eventual 645Z)?

    The Hasselblad has more range (equivalent to 25-65mm) whilst the Pentax goes wider (equivalent to 22-35mm) and both are equally hefty on the wallet and the biceps!

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    Have you had a chance to use the 28-45mm lens? Its fantastic and gives hope that Pentax will do a similarly good job with the replacement 45-85 and 80-160 lenses, which may be coming fairly soon. The 28-45 is the best wide angle landscape lens I have ever used, because it offers top end prime quality with zoom convenience and SR. I used mine hand held a lot in Iceland, especially for quick roadside shots where a tripod would have been and issue (not to mention the wind and cold). FWIW its clearly better at 28mm than any of the 25mm D FA samples I've worked on in LR, towards the edges.

    I haven't been that impressed by the edges of the 55mm D FA lens samples I have seen, whereas the 75mm FA seriously impressed me at landscape apertures. Its sharp as a tack everywhere, although it takes a few stops to get warmed up. Mine peaks at f9 across the field. Super happy with this inexpensive 200g wonder.

    I'm itching for Pentax to get moving with new lenses and will most likely jump on the new 80-160mm.

    It sound like Zeiss is working on an 18mm Batis, which will be interesting...
    Tom, I've been working on the test images and I agree completely, a good lens is what makes the difference. I am seriously thinking about the 28-45 now that I am going to India for a Rajasthan tour next month. Still, the older lenses are quite extraordinary in their own way.

    Pradeep
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by rhern213 View Post
    Very curious to see your results Pradeep, I just took delivery of a 645z and I'm going to be trying similar tests to see what I'm gonna with the A7R2. I'm waiting now for the 75, 120 macro, and 150. I'm trying to decide what to do at the wide end.

    turtle: I was very close to buying the 55 considering the great reviews people have online. However I don't understand why, I have not seen a single full-size image sample of this lens that has even decent corner performance, from what I've seen it's straight up bad for landscape. Maybe the reviews are from portrait shooters that are looking at the rendering and center performance.

    How do you feel about the difference between the 35 A, and 28-45? Do you feel it's that much better regarding the cost difference? I don't mind shelling out for the 28-45 if it's a must have, but it's a huge chunk of change. My whole reason of switching to the 645z was to save money from the Phase system, the 28-45 would take a big bite out of that.
    The 28-45 indeed is a lot of money, but expect that with most new lenses coming out for the 645 from here on. It is a big, hungry sensor and needs the best glass in front.

    Anyway, here are some test shots. This was an absolutely unscientific comparison, I will admit right here and now. I was just curious to see if the Sony can come close. When I tested the Canon 5DSR against the Pentax, there was no comparison at all, the Pentax was simply better. Given that both are 50MP sensors the differences were obviously due to the size/technology of the sensors and the lenses I used.

    I will repeat the methodology. I wanted to look at a simple backyard image, will probably do a test at infinity one of these days with buildings and such. Anyway, I put up the Edmund Optics Resolving chart up on my garage wall against a window. Testing different focal lengths is hard with this set up so all i did was equalize the FOV. Now I know that is not the best way to do it perhaps and the higher MP of the Pentax increases the size of the chart at 100%, but it is not too much of a difference, IMHO.

    I tested the Batis 25 and 85 on the Sony along with the ZA 35 2.8, 55 1.8 and also used two Canon lenses with the Metabones adapter (Mk IV with the latest firmware).

    For the Pentax I used the FA 45-85 f4.5, the DFA 55 2.8, the FA 120 f4 macro and the FA 150 2.8 I seem to have misplaced my FA 75 but will test that another day. I took multiple shots at 1-stop interval starting from wide open to f11. Tripod, mirror up, self-timer etc.

    These are all JPG versions. I can upload the RAW files if I can figure out how. In my testing previously, I had discovered that my sharpest non-wide lens on the Sony is the 85 Batis and on the Pentax my overall sharpest is the 150 2.8 (my copy of the famed 120 macro is less than stellar). So here are images from the Batis 85 and the FA 150 both at f8 since we are talking landscape apertures.

    I will leave the comments for you all. Attaching a few more images in the next post..........

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Pradeep; 9th November 2015 at 15:53.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    I followed up the above images with another test.

    I feel that in order to compare two cameras one needs to look at several things - apart from the size, heft, cost, ergonomics, weather sealing etc - which are all non-IQ factors. Simply comparing the image quality coming out of one camera with another requires equalization of lenses which is very difficult to do between MF and 35mm. Interestingly, it is easy now to compare the Sony with the Canon/Nikon since you can put on the same lenses on both cameras.

    Other factors like DR, noise levels, are all important in the final equation. So I thought I would do a noise and DR test too.

    These shots were taken with the two cameras underexposed by at least 4 stops, I then pulled up the exposure in LR to the maximum I could, which was five stops.

    Both cameras have an amazing ability to pull up shadow detail. I will let you decide which one does a better job.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by rhern213 View Post
    Very curious to see your results Pradeep, I just took delivery of a 645z and I'm going to be trying similar tests to see what I'm gonna with the A7R2. I'm waiting now for the 75, 120 macro, and 150. I'm trying to decide what to do at the wide end.

    turtle: I was very close to buying the 55 considering the great reviews people have online. However I don't understand why, I have not seen a single full-size image sample of this lens that has even decent corner performance, from what I've seen it's straight up bad for landscape. Maybe the reviews are from portrait shooters that are looking at the rendering and center performance.

    How do you feel about the difference between the 35 A, and 28-45? Do you feel it's that much better regarding the cost difference? I don't mind shelling out for the 28-45 if it's a must have, but it's a huge chunk of change. My whole reason of switching to the 645z was to save money from the Phase system, the 28-45 would take a big bite out of that.
    I'm not Pradeep or turtle, but I have the 35mm A and the 28-45mm. I did a brief comparison of the A vs. zoom at 35mm. The zoom is a little better in the corners and a bit less CA and the A has some very slight barrel distortion, but you really need to pixel peek to see the difference. The 35mm is a lens you can walk around with and is about 1/10 the cost, size and weight of the zoom (a slight exaggeration, but not that far off). I'm keeping both lenses, the A if I need to carry something and don't need the extra width of the zoom; the zoom because it's really excellent at all its focal lengths. I had a FA 35mm as well and sold it, I found the A version to be a better copy.

    Tom
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Pradeep:

    Thanks for the images.

    To my eyes, the Sony is showing a good bit of deal loss in the darker areas and increase in noise, looking at the darker bricks, the sprinkler shaft, and the control box. The Pentax looks a lot cleaner in these darker spots.

    I assume you shot at base iso for both?

    I noticed a problem with shadow noise recovery with the A7rII I briefly owned, which surprised me considering the tech behind the sensor in the Sony. Was it extreme? No, but it was worse than my D810 at iso 64. I shot the Sony at 100 and 200 iso.

    Paul C

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Tom - my experience of the 35mm A and the 28-45 zoom led to the same conclusions. The zoom is better when examined closely but the 35mm A is close and handy for situations where the bulk of the zoom is not desirable. Also the f3.5 maximum aperture of the prime is occasionally useful, even in this world of clean high ISO and IS.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Tom - my experience of the 35mm A and the 28-45 zoom led to the same conclusions. The zoom is better when examined closely but the 35mm A is close and handy for situations where the bulk of the zoom is not desirable. Also the f3.5 maximum aperture of the prime is occasionally useful, even in this world of clean high ISO and IS.
    Ed, interesting that you have found the same; sometimes I think my experience applies only to the copies I have since some reports are quite contrary to my observations. The old 35, 75 and 120mm are hard to surpass and many of the older lenses are quite good. You and I both use the 67 300mm M*; it may surprise you that based on my limited tests, the 150-300mm zoom is almost its equal (F/8, where I shoot).

    Tom

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Tom - my experience of the 35mm A and the 28-45 zoom led to the same conclusions. The zoom is better when examined closely but the 35mm A is close and handy for situations where the bulk of the zoom is not desirable. Also the f3.5 maximum aperture of the prime is occasionally useful, even in this world of clean high ISO and IS.
    I still have the 35A and it is a miracle lens I mean, it is quite small and light and still covers the full frame 645 format. Baffled how even today no one can make a high quality wide angle lens for medium format that is Not HUGE.

    The 28-45mm is massive but it is much wider and has IS so ill allow it.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Tom, I've been working on the test images and I agree completely, a good lens is what makes the difference. I am seriously thinking about the 28-45 now that I am going to India for a Rajasthan tour next month. Still, the older lenses are quite extraordinary in their own way.

    Pradeep
    Your choice and off topic, but I think you would be much better off taking/renting a Sony A7SII and a Sony A7RII with the two Batis lenses and the FE 24-70 zoom to Rajastan. I spent three weeks walking around the back streets and alleys of Rajastan from early morning till well into the evening with the original A7S and the FE 24-70 zoom. The new A7SII is even better with the IBIS. You will be often be shooting in low light where this camera body will excel at amazingly high ISOs. The FE 24-70 is certainly not my first choice for landscapes, but I personally don't think that photographing in Rajastan is about sharp corners on brick walls. The lens is quite sharp in the center. I also had the FE 35, 55 and 70-200, but the 24-70 rarely came off the camera. I also had an A7R for good light.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Pradeep:

    Thanks for the images.

    To my eyes, the Sony is showing a good bit of deal loss in the darker areas and increase in noise, looking at the darker bricks, the sprinkler shaft, and the control box. The Pentax looks a lot cleaner in these darker spots.

    I assume you shot at base iso for both?

    I noticed a problem with shadow noise recovery with the A7rII I briefly owned, which surprised me considering the tech behind the sensor in the Sony. Was it extreme? No, but it was worse than my D810 at iso 64. I shot the Sony at 100 and 200 iso.

    Paul C
    Paul, all shots were taken at ISO 100 which I think is the base for both cameras. I believe both sensors exhibit the 'ISO invariance' phenomenon too, I don't know how many here believe that in real life.

    Anyway, you are correct, the Sony does show loss of detail and higher levels of noise, perhaps something to be expected given the smaller sensor.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Your choice and off topic, but I think you would be much better off taking/renting a Sony A7SII and a Sony A7RII with the two Batis lenses and the FE 24-70 zoom to Rajastan. I spent three weeks walking around the back streets and alleys of Rajastan from early morning till well into the evening with the original A7S and the FE 24-70 zoom. The new A7SII is even better with the IBIS. You will be often be shooting in low light where this camera body will excel at amazingly high ISOs. The FE 24-70 is certainly not my first choice for landscapes, but I personally don't think that photographing in Rajastan is about sharp corners on brick walls. The lens is quite sharp in the center. I also had the FE 35, 55 and 70-200, but the 24-70 rarely came off the camera. I also had an A7R for good light.
    Thanks Howard. That is very helpful. I've been sitting on the fence on this issue, whether to take both the Pentax and the Sony or just the smaller camera with me. We will be traveling a lot and there will be times when a lighter outfit would be better. For example, we are also doing the Taj (including moonlight visit) and I don't want to frighten the security staff with huge cameras and lenses

    I actually do have a 24-70 but I think my copy is a bit soft, never liked it much. Given the need for wide and mid-range FL, a zoom would be perfect, but I may just take two A7 series bodies and put different lenses on both to give me the coverage.

    Do you think the A7SII is significantly better at low-light stuff? At the Taj for example, moonlight shots would require an ISO of at least 3200 given no tripods are allowed. I might just rent one in that case.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    The 28-45 indeed is a lot of money, but expect that with most new lenses coming out for the 645 from here on. It is a big, hungry sensor and needs the best glass in front.

    Anyway, here are some test shots. This was an absolutely unscientific comparison, I will admit right here and now. I was just curious to see if the Sony can come close. When I tested the Canon 5DSR against the Pentax, there was no comparison at all, the Pentax was simply better. Given that both are 50MP sensors the differences were obviously due to the size/technology of the sensors and the lenses I used.

    I will repeat the methodology. I wanted to look at a simple backyard image, will probably do a test at infinity one of these days with buildings and such. Anyway, I put up the Edmund Optics Resolving chart up on my garage wall against a window. Testing different focal lengths is hard with this set up so all i did was equalize the FOV. Now I know that is not the best way to do it perhaps and the higher MP of the Pentax increases the size of the chart at 100%, but it is not too much of a difference, IMHO.

    I tested the Batis 25 and 85 on the Sony along with the ZA 35 2.8, 55 1.8 and also used two Canon lenses with the Metabones adapter (Mk IV with the latest firmware).

    For the Pentax I used the FA 45-85 f4.5, the DFA 55 2.8, the FA 120 f4 macro and the FA 150 2.8 I seem to have misplaced my FA 75 but will test that another day. I took multiple shots at 1-stop interval starting from wide open to f11. Tripod, mirror up, self-timer etc.

    These are all JPG versions. I can upload the RAW files if I can figure out how. In my testing previously, I had discovered that my sharpest non-wide lens on the Sony is the 85 Batis and on the Pentax my overall sharpest is the 150 2.8 (my copy of the famed 120 macro is less than stellar). So here are images from the Batis 85 and the FA 150 both at f8 since we are talking landscape apertures.

    I will leave the comments for you all. Attaching a few more images in the next post..........
    What I find particularly noticeable is how much better surface texture is preserved by the larger sensor, especially in the brickwork where the Sony just says "here's some bricks" while in the Pentax shot you can see the roughness of everything.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Concerning color response I've profiled both cameras (using imaging resource images, haven't actually held the cameras in person) and the respond so similar that I think they have the exact same color filters on the sensors.

    If you're a Capture One fan you can use A7rII there but not the Pentax 645z (unless hacking C1) which may be a factor.

    If anyone's interested in my A7r-II and 645z DNG profiles you can download them here:

    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...5z-neutral.dcp
    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...utral-plus.dcp
    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...r2-neutral.dcp
    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...utral-plus.dcp

    The "neutral+" variants contains some (very) mild subjective adjustments. It's possible to make C1 profiles too, but I haven't done that for the A7r-II.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Concerning color response I've profiled both cameras (using imaging resource images, haven't actually held the cameras in person) and the respond so similar that I think they have the exact same color filters on the sensors.

    If you're a Capture One fan you can use A7rII there but not the Pentax 645z (unless hacking C1) which may be a factor.

    It's possible to make C1 profiles too, but I haven't done that for the A7r-II.
    If you ever have the spare time, it would be really interesting to compare them with C1's own A7RII profiles.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Thanks Howard. That is very helpful. I've been sitting on the fence on this issue, whether to take both the Pentax and the Sony or just the smaller camera with me. We will be traveling a lot and there will be times when a lighter outfit would be better. For example, we are also doing the Taj (including moonlight visit) and I don't want to frighten the security staff with huge cameras and lenses

    I actually do have a 24-70 but I think my copy is a bit soft, never liked it much. Given the need for wide and mid-range FL, a zoom would be perfect, but I may just take two A7 series bodies and put different lenses on both to give me the coverage.

    Do you think the A7SII is significantly better at low-light stuff? At the Taj for example, moonlight shots would require an ISO of at least 3200 given no tripods are allowed. I might just rent one in that case.
    Have a look here at the opinion of one person who has tested them side by side. http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/11...r-ii-vs-a7s-ii.
    Given the IBIS on the new A7RII, I might skip the A7SII and just go with the A7RII that you already have. However, you should have a second body as a backup, so you could rent either the A7SII or another A7RII. You might also consider renting a "good" copy of the FE 24-70 from lensrentals.com before the trip and see what you think. My website has a portfolio from a trip to India last year that were shot primarily with the A7S and the FE 24-70 zoom.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I am waiting for my XF but do have the Schneider 40-80mm lens on my DF. I think it's a better choice over the new 35mm and it's extremely sharp. I got it for the same price as the new 35mm. Sure it would be great to have both but the cost is prohibitive for me anyway.

    Check out this full rez stitch from Telluride. Shot with IQ180 at 40mm on the 40-80mm.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f2mi5krrg...no-37.tif?dl=0
    HI Doug:

    Thanks for the link. I agree the 40-80 is an exceptional optic. I just can't justify the price point, @ 8.4K, as I recall. I also find that I still need a bit wider range. The 40mm HR-W is by far one of the best lenses I have used, but most times I needed to shift it to get the full image I need.

    I am waiting on a 35LS, hoping to see the same degree of sharpness, to the corners, I have seen in the test samples.

    My plan is the 35, 55LS and 80LS, and eventually pickup a 150mm 2.8 as it's one of the best optics Mamiya ever made.

    Paul C

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Hi Paul,

    110LS and/or 120mm would be a nice fit to fill the gap between the 80LS and 150mm.

    Might as well get the 240LS too since you're shopping.


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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Have a look here at the opinion of one person who has tested them side by side. http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/11...r-ii-vs-a7s-ii.
    Given the IBIS on the new A7RII, I might skip the A7SII and just go with the A7RII that you already have. However, you should have a second body as a backup, so you could rent either the A7SII or another A7RII. You might also consider renting a "good" copy of the FE 24-70 from lensrentals.com before the trip and see what you think. My website has a portfolio from a trip to India last year that were shot primarily with the A7S and the FE 24-70 zoom.
    Thanks Howard, that's made the decision for me. I will probably get another A7RII body now. Wonder why the A7SII is the same price with a lower MP resolution. Just the enhanced video capabilities should not push the price up that much. I guess they don't want it to eat up into the RII sales.

    Looked at your Rajasthan gallery. Very good stuff. I am not into portraits, especially those of indigenous peoples, I have a problem with that. But that's just my problem I guess. In any case, I grew up with such sights around me so it is nothing 'exotic' as far as I am concerned. The vistas and little streets of the villages still fascinate me, so that would be my focus, of course apart from the iconic monuments and historical artifacts.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    If you ever have the spare time, it would be really interesting to compare them with C1's own A7RII profiles.
    I don't use C1 much these days so I haven't cared to upgrade the software, and my version (7.2.2) doesn't support A7R-II images so I can't make any profiles for it unfortunately :-/

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    HI Doug:

    Thanks for the link. I agree the 40-80 is an exceptional optic. I just can't justify the price point, @ 8.4K, as I recall. I also find that I still need a bit wider range. The 40mm HR-W is by far one of the best lenses I have used, but most times I needed to shift it to get the full image I need.

    Paul C
    Paul, Digital Transitions has a "used" one for $6,455. Thats where I got mine. They are "as new" and according to Lance were sold to a NYC studio that subsequently decided not to use them.

    It's a beast for sure but I'm getting used to it. Big benefit is not needing to change lenses so often.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    I agree with previous comments that the 28-45 is better at 35mm than the 35mm A lens. Colour, contrast and CA are evidently better and resolution is a touch higher, but the A series lens is still superb and a much better option if you can do without the flexibility and SR of the zoom. Personally, I prefer the zoom, because I like to tweak the focal length as needed and its wonderful to have prime lens quality while doing so.

    Back onto the A7R II and 645Z comparison, I agree the Z has an edge and produces superior textural detail. That said the A7R II isn't far behind at all. The system just needs better lenses at the wide end to compete with the Z. Comparing my 28-45mm with the 35mm FE Sonnar on the A7R, the Sony cannot come close in edge performance. The Z is perfect across the frame, although one has to look out for curvature that creeps in at the long end, which can affect the centre bottom of frame softer than the corners if you focus too far into the scene for the given aperture.

    At some point the Z will be replaced with 70 or 80MP update, one assumes, so then what? I think the decision is simple: if you want a Z get a Z. If you want a Sony because its not that far behind and much smaller and cheaper, get the Sony. Both are incredible. The Z has the edge for now IMHO and will leap ahead again when the same sort of pixel pitch and BSI sensor hits the Z, but this won't matter to most people, because both already provide all the quality most need. I look at my Z files and for the first time ever conclude that I could shoot this camera without ever wanting more, for colour and B&W. Its that good.

    On the price front, its worth doing the maths. A 645Z with 35mm A a 75mm FA and a few used zooms is no more expensive that the A7R II and a bunch of the latest Sony/Zony/Zeiss optics... Food for thought. My personal decision has been to continue investing in the Pentax and keep my Sony kit (Mk I bodies) as a fairly simple one. I may add a 21mm Loxia or 25mm Batis at a later point, but for my more structure landscape work, the Pentax is the one that satisfies me most. The 4:3 aspect ratio is also a part of that equation. I far prefer it for landscape work. For travel, the decision would be simple: Sony all the way...

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Hi Paul,

    110LS and/or 120mm would be a nice fit to fill the gap between the 80LS and 150mm.

    Might as well get the 240LS too since you're shopping.

    here it is

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-...condition.html

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Thanks Howard, that's made the decision for me. I will probably get another A7RII body now. Wonder why the A7SII is the same price with a lower MP resolution. Just the enhanced video capabilities should not push the price up that much. I guess they don't want it to eat up into the RII sales.

    Looked at your Rajasthan gallery. Very good stuff. I am not into portraits, especially those of indigenous peoples, I have a problem with that. But that's just my problem I guess. In any case, I grew up with such sights around me so it is nothing 'exotic' as far as I am concerned. The vistas and little streets of the villages still fascinate me, so that would be my focus, of course apart from the iconic monuments and historical artifacts.
    Portraits are generally not my thing either, but for me, India was all about amazingly interesting and friendly people and explosions of color. I did not think of them as "indigenous" any more than I think of people in Paris as "indigenous." I was not on a photography workshop. On my own. I did run into a couple of workshop groups who had hired local residents to "pose" for the photographers. I don't object to it on moral grounds. I just find that contrived. I believe you should find your own voice.
    As a setting for landscape photography, I did not go there expecting to find "vistas" and I did not.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I look at my Z files and for the first time ever conclude that I could shoot this camera without ever wanting more, for colour and B&W. Its that good.
    I'd be intrigued to understand why you especially like the Z files (I think I recall you've been a Monochrom, and Mamiya 7 user too in the past? - apols if not the case!). Do you think it's the Z's high 50mp res that you like, or are you seeing a MF "look" and higher IQ due to the larger sensor?

    I'm asking because i've recently tried the Leica S (a new Leica S-E and 70mm lens is now < £ 8k these days), and i see a large difference in the image quality from the S vs. any M camera I've used (M240, Monochrom etc). I'm not sure if it's a higher MP thing that is giving this impression when i review the comparison images in VERY large prints, or if it's the S's larger "medium format" sensor, or if it's the absolute world class (albeit bulkier) S lenses ..... or a mix of all these things. But i see higher res, much better smoothness, and much better tonality that gives a more "3D look" from the S. Similar to 35mm vs. 6x7 film differences!

    One thing's for sure, the S noticeably surpasses M image quality - and hence was curious why you think the Z is also "that good" to see if i can understand what i'm seeing with the Leica S? Many thanks!

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Portraits are generally not my thing either, but for me, India was all about amazingly interesting and friendly people and explosions of color. I did not think of them as "indigenous" any more than I think of people in Paris as "indigenous." I was not on a photography workshop. On my own. I did run into a couple of workshop groups who had hired local residents to "pose" for the photographers. I don't object to it on moral grounds. I just find that contrived. I believe you should find your own voice.
    As a setting for landscape photography, I did not go there expecting to find "vistas" and I did not.

    Howard, I did not mean to be critical of your portraits from a moral perspective at all, if it came across as such, my apologies.

    I've met many people on workshops around the world who show me images of their trip to India (because I am originally from there I suppose). Almost all such images are of the people, especially women, shy young brides with the vermillion in the hair, nose-rings, long braids, colorful saris etc. Many of these pictures are taken inside people's homes. I met a woman last year on a workshop in France who very proudly showed me these pictures, some obviously taken in the inner sanctum of somebody's home. She is from North Carolina and I thought I should ask her how she would feel if I went up to her front door in Raleigh and said, boy you look so exotic, like a fairy-princess, with your golden hair and blue eyes, can I take your photo to show off to my friends back home? And by the way, your young daughter looks like a little Barbie doll, may I take her photo too?

    It is not hard to imagine what the local reaction would be if the situation was reversed. Indians are very friendly people especially when they see foreigners, they want to be nice to them and would not refuse if you asked to take a photo. I could never ask a young Indian bride to pose for me, would probably get beaten up by her family! I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I am strangely very conscious of the fact that if I point my camera at somebody with the obvious intent of taking their picture, I am intruding upon their personal space even if it is a public place and I am 10 feet away. But then everyone has their own moral compass and who am I to be judgmental? I just have a problem, but like I said, it's my problem.

    And by 'indigenous people' I meant those different from you, the 'aboriginal' people, from a native culture that is quite unlike yours. And I agree, people in Paris could be considered that. In fact thirty years ago when I first went to England, I thought I was on another planet, everybody looked so different!

    It is true, though, Indian clothes are a riot of primary colors, especially in rural India and of course the weddings if you can attend one are spectacular.

    Vistas in Rajasthan are awesome as they are in many places in India. You just need to know where to look. This is true of almost anywhere in the world I suppose.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Concerning A7r-II, C1 and profiles. As said I don't use C1 much these days so I don't have the latest version and can thus not open A7r-II files, but if I could I would certainly test and see if IQ250 profiles work for it. Has anyone tested? Or maybe they've blocked cross-camera profile use in the latest version?

    I've noted that many Sony sensors have highly similar color responses, A7r-II and 645z seems almost identical, perhaps even exactly the same with just IR filter / lens differences causing minor color differences. I haven't been able to test but I would not be surprised if the IQ250, 645z, A7r-II all have almost exactly the same color response and thus could use the same profiles.
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    HI Doug:
    My plan is the 35, 55LS and 80LS, and eventually pickup a 150mm 2.8 as it's one of the best optics Mamiya ever made.

    Paul C
    I've got a great 150 2.8 for sale

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Concerning A7r-II, C1 and profiles. As said I don't use C1 much these days so I don't have the latest version and can thus not open A7r-II files, but if I could I would certainly test and see if IQ250 profiles work for it. Has anyone tested? Or maybe they've blocked cross-camera profile use in the latest version?

    I've noted that many Sony sensors have highly similar color responses, A7r-II and 645z seems almost identical, perhaps even exactly the same with just IR filter / lens differences causing minor color differences. I haven't been able to test but I would not be surprised if the IQ250, 645z, A7r-II all have almost exactly the same color response and thus could use the same profiles.
    Yes you can apply any profile, including any lens correction you want to any file in C1. I attached a sample below from an A7R2 file. The Sony profile seems to be applying a bit more saturation or contrast in which you can see a slight difference in the greens/yellows/reds in the photo. However the more neutral gray colors seems practically identical to me.

    Here's the A7R2 profile:
    C1 A7R2 Profile by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr

    Here's the IQ250 profile:
    C1 IQ250 Profile by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr
    Last edited by rhern213; 11th November 2015 at 06:57.

  39. #89
    Senior Member JohnBrew's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    I've noted that many Sony sensors have highly similar color responses, A7r-II and 645z seems almost identical, perhaps even exactly the same with just IR filter / lens differences causing minor color differences. I haven't been able to test but I would not be surprised if the IQ250, 645z, A7r-II all have almost exactly the same color response and thus could use the same profiles.
    Agreed. I found I had to apply similar color adjustments to the CFV-50c as my D810. I was expecting the MFDB to be better but it appears they are much the same across the board. Maybe there's something to be said for consistency?

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Concerning color response I've profiled both cameras (using imaging resource images, haven't actually held the cameras in person) and the respond so similar that I think they have the exact same color filters on the sensors.

    If you're a Capture One fan you can use A7rII there but not the Pentax 645z (unless hacking C1) which may be a factor.

    If anyone's interested in my A7r-II and 645z DNG profiles you can download them here:

    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...5z-neutral.dcp
    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...utral-plus.dcp
    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...r2-neutral.dcp
    http://torger.dyndns.org/dcamprof-v0...utral-plus.dcp

    The "neutral+" variants contains some (very) mild subjective adjustments. It's possible to make C1 profiles too, but I haven't done that for the A7r-II.
    Thanks Torger for this work
    I've tested your A7RII profile against mine. Yours makes a great job in greens and yellow discrimination I think. A bit less sure about the blue (turns the blue skies a bit towards magenta it seems).
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    Thanks Torger for this work
    I've tested your A7RII profile against mine. Yours makes a great job in greens and yellow discrimination I think. A bit less sure about the blue (turns the blue skies a bit towards magenta it seems).
    The profiles are made from shots I got from Imaging Resource's web site, a colorchecker 24 under simulated D50 (Solux halogens I think). The reference color data is generic though so I cannot guarantee the accuracy, but I have reasons to believe that it's quite good :-)

    Adobe's stock profile is deliberately desaturated with blue turned towards cyan, which does have some advantages in terms of robustness when you shoot artificial lights such as nightscapes. In a direct comparison with Adobe's profile my profile will certainly look more magenta.

    I would not be that surprised if it turns out too much magenta in a controlled measurement though, I've had issues with precision in that range for some other Sony sensors which are a bit special in that they have very high blue sensitivity meaning that small errors there get magnified.

    This can be fixed quite easily manually when generating a profile, but as I do these profiles "in the blind" (I don't own the A7r-II or the 645z) I can't do that much.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    I've made my lightroom profile based on a Gretag Macbeth shot under a Just Normlicht proof station. It is already better than the adobe stock profile but clearly not as good as yours for greens/yellows.
    If you need a raw A7RII landscape file just ask, I can provide.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Hi Paul,

    110LS and/or 120mm would be a nice fit to fill the gap between the 80LS and 150mm.

    Might as well get the 240LS too since you're shopping.

    Let's not forget the 2x converter and lens support Ken. You are slacking!

    Paul: 150/2.8D is awesome. The 240LS in all seriousness is also an outstanding optic.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  44. #94
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    I have the Mamiya D 150mm that I bought from Ken Doo. It's pretty damn sharp. Here's a full rez image of a three frame stitch, but cropped somewhat. It's from Lava Point which overlooks Zion National Park.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3vis33v45j...NO-39.tif?dl=0

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Thought I'd post these examples I just took: RAW conversion in LR with lens correction applied, no other changes.

    The A7R2 is with the 55 1.8, at F8
    The 645z is with the 75 2.8, at F9

    A7R2
    _DSC5478 by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr

    645z
    IMGP0012 by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr

    A7R2
    _DSC5478_CC by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr

    645z
    IMGP0012_CC by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr

    A7R2
    _DSC5478_BC by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr

    645z
    IMGP0012_BC by Richel Hernandez, on Flickr
    Last edited by rhern213; 11th November 2015 at 18:30.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    The last two crops of the truck are quite interesting. The 645Z is noticeably sharper for sure. More promising is the tonal detail in the power pole and those ceramic thingies, there looks to be quite a bit more in the darker shades in the pole and the highlights in the ceramics with the 645Z.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    oops, didn't realize I screwed up one of the center crops, I re-posted it.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    The difference is quite striking, even on an internet post. I'm a bit surprised.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    It seems to me that the most striking differences are lens related, it's considerably higher local contrast in the 645z files.

    It could possibly be diffraction-related too, f/8 on A7r-II means more diffraction per pixel than f/9 on 645z.
    Last edited by torger; 12th November 2015 at 00:25.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs A7RII IQ and bang for the buck

    Quote Originally Posted by rhern213 View Post
    Yes you can apply any profile, including any lens correction you want to any file in C1. I attached a sample below from an A7R2 file. The Sony profile seems to be applying a bit more saturation or contrast in which you can see a slight difference in the greens/yellows/reds in the photo. However the more neutral gray colors seems practically identical to me.

    Here's the A7R2 profile:

    Here's the IQ250 profile:
    Doesn't seem totally off at least, but I was expected lower difference in saturation. To really know if they are "compatible" one would have to have a IQ250 shot as well... well, still interesting.

    It should be said that even if cameras are very different, like Canon camera with Canon sensor vs a Sony camera with Sony sensor, low saturation colors typically look sort of right with the other camera's profile.

    Cameras seems to be more similar now in color response than they used to be, and they are easier to match a human observer, I suppose the CFA coatings simply has got better.

    I don't think there is any MFD advantage is color response any longer, but there's surely a profile advantage when using stock profiles, Phase One spend a lot more time manually perfecting the IQ250 profiles than the A7r-II profile for sure. That said Phase One put a big bunch of subjectivity into their profiles, most obvious is that they are typically rendering stuff with a warm tone (yellow tint), which one may or may not like.

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