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Thread: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

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    Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca DOs and DON’Ts

    Hello Everybody

    After ten years of using a Phase One P45, then P45+ mounted on a Sinar P2, starting last week, I’m a happy owner of a Sony A7R2. Which I intend to use on an Arca Swiss M, or M-two, or an Universalis. The only movements that I need, tilt/swing on front and rise/shift on back are available on all three if I understood correctly, so no contest here. Also, as much as I loved Sinar, they look like are lacking some motivation lately, compared to Arca or Cambo, and I’m not a big Cambo fan. Which makes Arca the obvious choice.
    My jobs are mainly food and drink related, you can see some examples here: Behance

    Some questions are looking for answers and I hope some experienced Arca or Sony users might chime in.
    1. FOCUS PRECISION
    Is there any precision difference between M, M-two, Universalis? I presume that Universalis, been the last one to the table, might be more precise, focus mechanism wise. I’m tempted with a very good and quite cheap second hand M 6x9 but I wouldn’t mind to spend more on Universalis, if it’s more precise.
    2. USING A LONG 210mm LENS on Universalis
    I presume that I would need another bellow and monorail extension, but would it be enough?
    3. USING A 35mm LENS
    Is this possible on any of the ARCAs? Do you need some recessed boards for that?

    4. USING LIVE VIEW ON SONY:
    To my dismay I found out that Capture One (a software that I use and like) don’t let me rotate or change the orientation in Live View AND Sony’s own Remote app does not provide Live View, AND you cannot use ipad app wirelessly when you’re tethered on USB. Bummer. Is there a hack around? Any other solution that let you use and focus on Live View AND let you shoot to computer?
    Or is there a hdmi to iPad solution? Might be an option.

    5. I’m still new for this Arca/Sony combination. Do you have any tips on some accessories, cables, hdmi monitors, carts, tripod heads, etc. I’ve found out and put on my list some Tether Tools accessories, for example.

    Please feel free to describe your setups, regardless that you shoot products, interiors, architecture, etc.


    Thanks in advance to everyone and looking forward for your input.

    BTW, compared to P45+, A7R2 IQ looks very, very promising. I already adapted artisanally on Sinar but i cannot wait to settle on one of the ARCAs.

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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    ctzzz, your work is exceptional and stunning. I am very impressed, and wish to do some similar in my own studio. Practicing liquid/splash work these days building up to it.
    I have no idea why you would want to change your capture gear, it does not seem to be an issue, but after seeing your work, I would not presume.
    I will be interested in how this works for you (Sony/Arca) as I recently went for Cambo/PhaseOne route.
    Best

    Eric
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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    ctzzz, your work is exceptional and stunning. I am very impressed, and wish to do some similar in my own studio. Practicing liquid/splash work these days building up to it.
    I have no idea why you would want to change your capture gear, it does not seem to be an issue, but after seeing your work, I would not presume.
    I will be interested in how this works for you (Sony/Arca) as I recently went for Cambo/PhaseOne route.
    Best

    Eric

    Eric, thanks for the kind words.
    I switched to Sony because I'm going tired to wait for a larger sensor, better live view and a more decent price coming from Phase One. Especially better Live View AND taking shots during Live View is my main incentive, which Phase One might just not do it ever. Plus with a 3000Euros price tag you can upgrade every year
    I already shot a couple of jobs on Sony and I'm impressed of his capabilities. As soon the works will be published by my client I'll be back with some examples.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by ctzzz; 5th August 2015 at 23:17.

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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by ctzzz View Post

    Eric, thanks for the kind words.
    I switched to Sony because I'm going tired to wait for a larger sensor, better live view and a more decent price coming from Phase One. Especially better Live View AND taking shots during Live View is my main incentive, which Phase One might just not do it ever. Plus with a 3000Euros price tag you can upgrade every year
    I already shot a couple of jobs on Sony and I'm impressed of his capabilities. As soon the works will be published by my client I'll be back with some examples.

    Cheers!
    Yep, LiveView LiveView LiveView In the studio-product world, its all about LiveView...Yes, I keep telling my dealers and anyone who will listen that its all about the LiveView capabilities. They should just make it part of the camera body, not the sensor. They just laugh at me and us product shooters. I guess our market is too small.
    The best I could do was an IQ250. ($30K). Its better than the CCD LV for sure, but nowhere near a Canon's unbelievable LiveView capabilities (works with standard utilities, USB 2or 3 + WiFi, C1, ACR, LR...has grid overlays, white balance, independent control, capture during LiveView, remote control, projection on big screens, WiFi....etc.etc.). I tried the Sony A7r and it was not good enough to make the switch from Canon (although the WiFi LV thing on the iPad was pretty cool) I hear the new A7rII is worth taking another look so have one on order.

    I don't really care that much about camera used, would love to know more about your lighting and post-proc. Oh well, another forum, I guess.

    e
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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by ctzzz View Post
    I switched to Sony because I'm going tired to wait for a larger sensor, better live view and a more decent price coming from Phase One. Especially better Live View AND taking shots during Live View is my main incentive, which Phase One might just not do it ever. !
    The XF and IQ2 or IQ3 can capture directly from live view - today. I'm not sure about the IQ1 as I've not tested that and the firmware for [IQ1 + XF] firmware is still in beta.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    The best I could do was an IQ250. ($30K).
    Also on the Credo 50, IQ150, and IQ350 which increases the price range over which you can get Live View with Team Phase One backs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    but nowhere near a Canon's unbelievable LiveView capabilities (works with standard utilities, USB 2or 3 + WiFi, C1, ACR, LR...has grid overlays, white balance, independent control, capture during LiveView, remote control, projection on big screens, WiFi....etc.etc.).
    I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding some of your requests, or if you're not aware that all but one of the items you mention which are possible with Canon Live View are possible - today - with Phase One. You mention white balance, which is the one shortcoming here... It is auto-only during live view. I agree that's a bummer and I hope it's an improvement made in the future. For most scenes it works pretty well in auto-only, but I'd definitely prefer to be able to set a custom white balance. You seem to think that we are being dismissive of this request; we are not.

    Let me address each of your requests...

    Works with Standard Utilities
    Not sure what you mean by "standard utilities", but Phase LV works with Capture One.

    USB2 or USB3
    Credo 50, IQ150, IQ250, and IQ350 all provide live view by USB2 or USB3

    C1, ACR, LR
    LightRoom and ACR do not support Live View with any camera. Unless I missed something?

    WiFi
    IQ250 and IQ350 provide live view by WiFi directly to an iOS device, including adjusting camera controls, and triggering the capture.

    Grid Overlays
    Live View in Capture One provides customizable grid overlays, moveable guides, and overlay of a layout (e.g. Magazine cover).

    Independent Control
    Not sure what you mean?

    Capture During LiveView
    Enabled on XF.

    Remote Control
    Full control of camera settings and triggering are available both in Capture One or via iOS device.


    Projection on Big Screen
    Two options:
    1) Use OSX with an HDMI out to a TV. You can mirror the main monitor, or for a more elegant setup you can have a two-monitor setup at your desk, and use OSX to mirror just the second monitor to the TV while keeping (which will show the live view) the other monitor independent.
    2) Connect an iOS device to a TV and use the WiFi live view discussed above.

    In a studio I'd probably pick option 1
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Hey Doug,
    Not picking on you guys at all.
    Just making the same points with fellow shooter as we have discussed several times.
    I am way more interested in lighting and other techniques ctzzz uses, just felt some camaraderie about the LiveView and said so.

    I love our MFD (CCD and CMOS) and use it over Canon, Nikon, Sony A7r...etc all the time and will continue to do so, otherwise would not be here. ...like I said, more interested in why ctzzz is doing this and how it works out for him. I am also trying to replace aging Canon's with new sensor and the Sony A7rII may be the ticket for that format. But not even thinking of using it instead of the IQ250...

    Standard Utilities means "Canon Utilities" which are free and control Canon Cameras and all aspects of Live View. In Live View modes, Canon Utilities offers more features in Live View than CaptureOne, including ability to shoot while tethered in LiveView projected onto screen (I understand that the XF now has the ability to capture while in LiveView, but at a cost of $8K add. for the XF....with DF+ CaptureOne seems to require a special script), yes, White Balance in Live View is important and should have been addressed by now, Canon Utilities' GUI is also more intuitive...etc etc..

    C1, ACR, LR
    No you didn't miss anything, its just a workflow issue that one can shoot quickly seamlessly from CanonUtilities directly into hot folders of any proc program of their choosing.

    WiFi
    The IQ250 does provide WiFi and it is very cool utility, but the quality of the video feed is noisy compared to Canon and Sony A7r. Probably because LV is being asked of a Medium Format CMOS chip instead of jobbing out the task to a smaller dedicated video chip, but I do not know enough about such things and the inner workings of this tech...just a guess.
    Also, the feed from the IQ250 is lost quite often. Again, very complex tech at work, I guess...Never happens with the smaller format cameras

    Grid Overlays
    Yes, C1 provides grid overlays, but Canon Utilities provides multiple grid overlays, white balance, opacity, rotation and scale adjustments of the overlays, the video feed, and all the while ability to capture at any moment during LV feed.

    Independent Control
    means I can capture, process or view live feed independently of each other. With the IQ250, I can do only one thing at a time
    I understand that the XF now has the ability to capture while in LiveView, but at a cost of $8K add. for the XF

    remote Control
    means with a Canon (and I assume with the Sony A7r) I can remote control using Pocket Wizard (its what we use) to control camera and LiveView projections and capture...all while holding a fill card by hand over the set by myself with no assistance. I do not believe the IQ250/C1 can do that, but if I am wrong, I will be happy about it.

    Projection on a big screen
    Yes, option1 is our favorite (as you know). The IQ250 does a good job using C1 but has the above mentioned drawbacks (video feed not as clear, no white balance, loses connection, overheats, runs out of battery...etc) thats all

    Again, did not mean to get into it about camera choices, those are just our impressions. I absolutely LOVE the image quality out of the MFD backs and the Canon's are rarely used anymore in our studio for that reason (we do use them for Live View sometimes looking at the ground glass then shoot with the MFD)
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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Hey Doug,
    Not picking on you guys at all.
    I didn't feel picked on; I know you love your Phase kit. Moreover we welcome your feedback and suggestions for future improvements (for instance the addition of custom WB during live view). I just think you've missed some updates.

    - As of a few weeks ago we have an AC power accessory so that you never run out of battery while using USB3: https://www.digitaltransitions.com/product/batteries (item #50300221)


    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    C1, ACR, LR
    ...its just a workflow issue that one can shoot quickly seamlessly from CanonUtilities directly into hot folders of any proc program of their choosing.
    You can do that with C1 as well. The workflow option is identical. Control camera and live view with C1 and shoot into LR. Though I don't know of any customers who do so since they nearly all prefer to shoot tethered into C1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Grid Overlays
    Yes, C1 provides grid overlays, but Canon Utilities provides multiple grid overlays, white balance, opacity, rotation and scale adjustments of the overlays, the video feed, and all the while ability to capture at any moment during LV feed.
    As of Capture One 8.2 you can add unlimited guides. You can also resize and change opacity of the overlay. And with an XF you can capture at any moment during LV feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    remote Control
    means with a Canon (and I assume with the Sony A7r) I can remote control using Pocket Wizard (its what we use) to control camera and LiveView projections and capture...all while holding a fill card by hand over the set by myself with no assistance. I do not believe the IQ250/C1 can do that, but if I am wrong, I will be happy about it.
    I'd suggest a foot pedal. We sell them preprogrammed to trigger the camera and it frees BOTH hands.

    Not sure under what circumstances your "feed is cutting off" but that should not be happening. I'd suggest working with our support team to isolate and eliminate the cause of that issue. The AC adapter goes a long way in that a lot of the issues I saw with LV "cutting off" were with batteries that were getting too low to power live view (but still had enough power to keep the back on).
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Yep got the FW AC adaptor and it works great! Thanks!

    Whatever is lacking in my shooting its not my gear (after seeing ctzzz's images, I get the impression he could shoot circles around me half blind with a Brownie box camera

    He wants to know info about others who have tried this combo (Sony/Arca) and I don't want to use up any more of his thread for this discussion
    Peace

    e
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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Whatever is lacking in my shooting its not my gear (after seeing ctzzz's images, I get the impression he could shoot circles around me half blind with a Brownie box camera
    Indeed. Some stellar images on that website.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Yep, LiveView LiveView LiveView In the studio-product world, its all about LiveView...Yes, I keep telling my dealers and anyone who will listen that its all about the LiveView capabilities.


    e
    Yes, yes and yes.
    Live view and shooting during live view is a big big thing for still life photographers. And beerstylists/foodstylists on the stage (table) need this even more. A lot more.
    I don't want to spend 8000-10000$ for an XF body and lens just to have this feature.
    BTW, @Doug, the XF does not even help us, product/architecture shooters, as long as we use view cameras anyway. Of course, everything might be feasible with the new sinar or arca shutters systems but who have time to (beta)test them AND a pile of money to burn this way. As insane it might sound, the little A7RII suits my needs better than my old trusty P45+ And I can spend the extra $$$$$ for lighting, self promotion, or anything else. Just my humble opinion.
    Last edited by ctzzz; 7th August 2015 at 00:00.

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    Re: Combining Sony A7R2 to Arca: DOs and DONíTs

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Yep got the FW AC adaptor and it works great! Thanks!

    Whatever is lacking in my shooting its not my gear (after seeing ctzzz's images, I get the impression he could shoot circles around me half blind with a Brownie box camera

    e
    Hahaha, Eric, come on, you're far, far too kind.
    But nevermind, if you need to know, I use a couple of Profoto 7s generators, generally sharp modifiers as Magnum or standard zoom reflectors and.... a lot of plastic foil to wrap everything around, for the liquids/splashes shots. Lots of practice, focusing on the job pretending that there's no Photoshop to help my butt (even that afterwards I'm using it, like everyone does). And most important thing is promoting yourself to clients that really need this kind of stuff. Here I was lucky and I'm very grateful in this respect.
    Last edited by ctzzz; 6th August 2015 at 23:16.
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