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Thread: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

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    Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    I used to have and enjoyed the heck out of a Mamiya 28 back when I shot with a P30+ and P45+. Lots of water under the bridge and now Im using a IQ180. I picked up a beautiful 40-80 and it has me rethinking wide lens. The difference between the 35 and 40 isnt enough to justify it by any means so that leaves me with few options if I want wider.

    I picked up an older 24mm fisheye but sadly while the lugs fit the XF the lens wouldnt turn to lock into the camera and I had to return it. This now brings up the 28. I understand the corners might not be sharp but then I had figured the 24 wouldnt be either. Hows the color cast; can it be corrected with an LCC? In general for those who have first hand, hands on experience whats your opinion?


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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Caught this thread from last year and want to see if anyone with a 180 & 28 can add anything of value.

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...too-picky.html


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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    I think someone's just in a shopping mood.... If it's gotta be for the XF, buy it already. You don't have any wider options. Latest lens corrections ala C1 8 Pro may help (dunno) but crop the corners on the 28LS and you're still a bit wider than the 35LS fov.

    Other options:

    1. Go with your Cambo when going wide. Get the 28HR and be satisfied with next to no movements, or get the highly acclaimed 32HR and center filter. You wanted to spend money this is it.
    2. Get an Alpa FPS or Hcam paired with Canon 17mm tse.
    3. For the few times that you need wider and only have the XF and 40-80 along, simply shoot 2-3 frames and do a pano stitch.
    4. Buy the IQ/Leaf WS MFDB. This is an obvious distraction and you'll be just as extremely happy if not moreso, and still satisfy that urge to shop.

    ken
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Thank you Ken for those wise words of wisdom

    Have you ordered the 40-80 yet?

    Don

    I've got a trip to Moab in a couple weeks and might see if I can borrow a 28 to do actual hands on testing. Other than the LS there seems to be little difference (besides weight) between the D and LS. Then again my 3-main lens are now all LS and I don't know how they might react to a D lens in the same bag.
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Don,

    Never got a chance to make it up to Sedona as CI had the 35LS tied up. I would love to see some images of the 40-80 at various focal lengths. I too am having issues deciding, but between the 40-80 and the 35. BTW are you happy sticking with IQ 1 series with the XF?...or are you longing for missing XF features?

    Don

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Okay, just did a fast test in my backyard which is what I should have done all along. Bottom line is I have no need for anything wider than the 40.

    Attachment 94423
    3-shot handheld horizontal with the 180 after cropping unusable space gives a 22632x7304 @360 (62x20) image. Might have been better on tripod and taking a little more effort.

    Attachment 94424
    4-shot vertical after cropping gave me 20550x10328 (57x28).


    Both shot at 40mm. Haven't done much if any work to either image other than stitch and crop. I'm thinking the 40-80 is as near a "one-lens" wonder as I'll get so I'm no longer lusting for anything wider. I'm putting my wallet back in the safe (for now).

    Don

    - - - Updated - - -
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by aztwang View Post
    Don,

    Never got a chance to make it up to Sedona as CI had the 35LS tied up. I would love to see some images of the 40-80 at various focal lengths. I too am having issues deciding, but between the 40-80 and the 35. BTW are you happy sticking with IQ 1 series with the XF?...or are you longing for missing XF features?

    Don

    Don, as luck would have it I just finished running both the 40-80 and 75-150 through various focal lengths and will share shortly.

    Don
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Hi Don L

    If you come down to Pheonix early on Thursday, you can test my SK 28 LS all day.

    Jeffery
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffery Salter View Post
    Hi Don L

    If you come down to Pheonix early on Thursday, you can test my SK 28 LS all day.

    Jeffery

    Thanks Jeffery, I'll be the tall guy casting a shadow nearby .
    Don Libby
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Don: for those 645 Pro TL lenses that don't natively fit the XF you can have the mount modified at minimal expense. After modification the lens still works on the DF/DF+, but also works on the XF.

    See also our article on the 80/1.9 and other such lenses:
    Big Buttery Bokeh; Ultra Fast Portrait Lenses for Phase One Bodies - DT Blog

    The 50 Shift is another lens that requires physical modification if you want to fit to the XF.

    I just shot a good fraction of a wedding using a XF-modified 80/1.9 on an XF with an IQ350.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Don, I've been using the Mamiya 28 mm for several years on the IQ180. I love the lens - but it's best at f11. C1 8 does a nice job of sharpening the corners. Many of my recent print sales (typically 30+ inches) have been from pix with the lens.

    IQ180, ISO 50, f11 @1/50th

    Bill CB

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    ....

    I'm putting my wallet back in the safe (for now).

    Don

    - - - Updated - - -
    Who has hacked Don's account and what have you done with the real Don enabler??

    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    I've been silent about this until this morning when I posted by latest blog on the lens I wasn't supposed to like. I found a deal on EBay for a Mamiya 28mm D lens that was just too good to pass up as it was an excellent lens and came with a 14-day return policy from a company I've done business with before.

    Shortly after getting the lens I knew it was a winner. I also went into this feeling that while 28mm would be nice I'd be just as happy with 30-32mm. The upper corners are sharp while the bottom can be a little mushy/soft yet easily cropped. I've also found the improvements in C1 especially the wide angle portion is very good.

    I've had no problems with color cast that has been reported by others using this lens with an 80-megapixel back. Bottom line is that I'm very pleased with the lens and will use it when I need wider than my 40-80. I plan on taking both with me as I hike to Delicate Arch later this month.

    My suggestion is to try the lens as you might be surprised at how well it actually works.

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Hi Don L

    If you come down to Pheonix early on Thursday, you can test my SK 28 LS all day.


    Jeffery:

    Looking forward to seeing you on Octoder 13th in Los Angeles for the Stand Out! event.

    Signed, the "other Jeffrey" from the Lake Tahoe group technical camera shoot, aka Pigs in a Blanket.
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post

    Looking forward to seeing you on Octoder 13th in Los Angeles for the Stand Out! event.

    Signed, the "other Jeffrey" from the Lake Tahoe group technical camera shoot, aka Pigs in a Blanket.
    Hi Jeffrey L,

    Looking forward to the Stand Out! event myself. It will be great to share pictures, stories and ideas with the photographers and creatives who are attending. I always feel visually refreshed and inspired to produce better images after going to a forum or a workshop.

    I hope the moderators don't mind me sharing this link.

    Home - Stand Out! Photographic Forums

    Happy to meet any Getdpi members who can make it to the Toronto or L.A. forums.

    Thank you,
    Jeffery S.
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Don: for those 645 Pro TL lenses that don't natively fit the XF you can have the mount modified at minimal expense. After modification the lens still works on the DF/DF+, but also works on the XF.

    See also our article on the 80/1.9 and other such lenses:
    Big Buttery Bokeh; Ultra Fast Portrait Lenses for Phase One Bodies - DT Blog

    The 50 Shift is another lens that requires physical modification if you want to fit to the XF.

    I just shot a good fraction of a wedding using a XF-modified 80/1.9 on an XF with an IQ350.
    Hi Doug
    Could you supply an image or/+ a description what is changed for the use with the XF on the ProTL Lenses ?

    TIA
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I've been silent about this until this morning when I posted by latest blog on the lens I wasn't supposed to like. I found a deal on EBay for a Mamiya 28mm D lens that was just too good to pass up as it was an excellent lens and came with a 14-day return policy from a company I've done business with before.

    ....

    Don
    I'd just like to say that I feel totally vindicated

    (And btw, I like my copy too of the 28D. It'll get you shots that the 35D never could. The filter assembly is a pain and I did try the rear element with gelatin filter once for ND but never again.)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'd just like to say that I feel totally vindicated

    (And btw, I like my copy too of the 28D. It'll get you shots that the 35D never could. The filter assembly is a pain and I did try the rear element with gelatin filter once for ND but never again.)
    I fell in love with the 28 while I had the P30+ but sold it shortly after getting the Cambo. It actually was a love/hate relationship due to the lack of proper filters. That's been changed with the Lee SW150 that Phase One sells made specifically for the 28. I had a chance to see one that Jeffery Salter has for his Phase One 28LS and since there's no physical change between the Mamiya and D and LS it will work just fine. I've got a SW150 on order through CI and hope to get it soon.
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Just got off the phone with Capture Integration; seems my Lee SW150 has shipped and I should have it later this week more than enough time to get used to it before we head to Moab later in the month.

    As much as I had wanted this lens I wasn't going to get another unless someone had figured a practical way to use filters. I've seen the SW150 on a Phase 28 LS and it works. I'll get used to it and do a write up soon for all those 28mm suffering from a lack of proper filters.

    Don

    PS - Dave Gallagher told me he had ordered a couple so he's got these in stock. Oh, and they are the newer version II.

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    The SW150 for the 28mm arrived this afternoon. I had tried the first version which fit tight,this one is version II which includes the light shield and different color compressionring. While this is made for the PhaseOne 4.5 28mm it can be used with a Mamiya 28mm D which I have. There are some drawbacks.

    First the compression ring for whatever the reason didnt compressmaking the filter hold tight; instead it is ever so wobbly. This might be operator error however at themoment Im current unable to separate the locking ring. While Ill try it again I have jury rigged asolution using gaffers tape to settle it down and way well wobbly.

    I did a couple test shots and can see the system works withsome limitations. There appears to be slight vignette at the upper corners when using a filter that isnt there without one.

    All in all this is light years ahead of what I went throughin 2006 when I attempted to mount a filter on the first version of the Mamiya28.

    Im going to go back and try to unscrew the locking ring andsee if I can get everything to work 100% - right now Id say the filter holderis 100% however the adaptor is a high 90% due to the wobble.
    More to come
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    There seems just an ever so slight difference between the Phase One 28 and the Mamiya 28D to cause the Lee SW150 not to fit as tight as it should. All isnt lost if you dont mind spending time and applying gaffers tape as I just finished doing.

    The great news is that I can now use any filter I want so long as its 150mm. Ive been able to tighten the adaptor ring to the point theres no more wobble and while I would have preferred not to use tape to tighten things up it does work.

    Heres three test images done with the adaptor ring in place, then with the filter hold and finally the kit filter. Checking these out on a 30 monitor I fail to see any vignette on the first two and think theres a slight possibility on the last using the filter however Im really not certain due to the subject matterand filter used.

    In short I like it a lot! I wish this kit has been available in 2006 when the first 28mm was released as it would have made my life so much easier.

    Attachment 94944Attachment 94945Attachment 94946
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?


    Just completed the last of my testing using the Mamiya 28mmD lens with the Lee SW150 attached. While the filter system might not have been made specifically for theMamiya (marketed for the Phase One) I have nevertheless gotten it to fit and work well. The adaptor ring is now resting on the barrel tight as it should (as a matter of fact its so tight that it cant be removed). Ive tested the lens combination using just the adaptor ring, with the filter holder attachedand finally with a filter and in none of the cases did I encounter any type of vignette. It may have taken a little out of the box thinking to get where I am however Im very pleased.

    Im shooting in Moab later this month and wanted to make certain that this lens and filter combination will work if I find a need to go wider that my 40-80 and feel very confident it will. Heres a sample of three shots taken on a not so bright wall in our courtyard.

    While the SW150 by Phase will work on the Mamiya be prepared to step outside the box in order to make it work as it should. I ended up using a very small/fine hobby brush and Super glue (I warned you about outside the box) to attach the adaptor ring tight enough to make if stop being wobbly.

    I hope this helps others with a Mamiya 28mm D and have been struggling to find a filter solution.


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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Have you tried outside in bright sunlight? How does the SW-150 handle back light scatter on the filter? Any issues with light ingress around the lens petal shade?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    This is the version II that includes the lightshield. The addition of the lightshield closes the gap between the filter slot. I've taken several tests bright daylight and each appear to be very acceptable with no leak, or backsplash from the filter. I've got a couple of filters arriving Tues with one of the a little stopper and will test those out as well.

    All in all it works. Years ago I tried everything in the book to mount a filter on the front and while I got close I kept failing. This works. Period. Again, it might not be made specifically for the Mamiya D and if someone can tell me the difference I'd like to know since I recently had them side by side and couldn't see any difference. I figured I'd keep this as a permanent attachment so I'm unconcerned that I've basically welded it in place; I figure if I ever sell the lens the new owner won't have to look for a filter solution.


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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Good to know. The SW-150 was originally designed for the Nikon 14-24 but seems to be a great solution for the 28D too. I agree about welding the ring if it's the best solution - screw resale - it's a tool after all.

    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Good to know. The SW-150 was originally designed for the Nikon 14-24 but seems to be a great solution for the 28D too. I agree about welding the ring if it's the best solution - screw resale - it's a tool after all.


    Totally agree - if I get one (okay maybe 2) gallery print from this lens it'll pay for itself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Good to know. The SW-150 was originally designed for the Nikon 14-24 but seems to be a great solution for the 28D too. I agree about welding the ring if it's the best solution - screw resale - it's a tool after all.


    Totally agree - if I get one (okay maybe 2) gallery print from this lens it'll pay for itself.
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Don, any idea how that 28 works with the smaller sensor of the IQ250?

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    I can't speak for Don. But the 1:3 crop factor would make the 28 an effective 36mm so I would think it would work very well as the crop will be taking advantage of the best part of the lens.

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    I agree with Paul, the crop factor will work in your favor. I had used the 28 with a P30+ and had great success with that crop and almost the same with the P45+. The biggest factor is the huge increase in C1 from several years ago.

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Don (other Don), C1 Pro 8 improvements will make a big difference (as Don, the other Don) points out. This may help address concerns you have for distortion and sharpness, but I bet the crop factor on your IQ250 will allay any concerns on its own.

    ken

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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Ken, I know you really wanted to say Old Tall Don (OTD) and Not So Tall Don (NSTD)


    Two issues regarding the 28D. It will work better on a cropped back so the 250 should be more than fine. The other issue/factor is the huge (measured by leaps and bounds) in C1 software especially how it deals with wide and super wide lenses.

    I'm heading out to Moab the end of the week however will be back in a week. If you want to get-together and try the 28D on your 250 let me know as I'll be in town until the end of Oct before heading to Sedona for a wedding then working our way north to Jackson Hole.


    I see no downsides based of what I've experienced since super gluing the SW150 ring on to the 28D. The LS model may be the newest bright and shinny and will give you a slightly better shutter however if you don't need flash then the 28D works just as well.

    OTD

    Sandy just pointed out that using Ambassador Don (AD) would work just as well....
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Or Goofy Don.
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    The NiSi 150mm filter Holder for Phase One 28mm lens is available to buy now:

    http://www.amazon.com/NiSi150mm-Spec...N%3DB0171A15ZA


    --Steve.
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  34. #34
    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Do you guys actually use filters anymore? Guess the answer is an obvious yes.

    Personally i no longer find them necessary, I can do a grad filter in C!. I also sometimes use the gradient dodge or burn tool in Photokit.

  35. #35
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_cor View Post
    The NiSi 150mm filter Holder for Phase One 28mm lens is available to buy now:

    http://www.amazon.com/NiSi150mm-Spec...N%3DB0171A15ZA


    --Steve.
    I just received 2 of the NiSi 150 x 150 filters. I am so far very impressed.

    To me yes filters still make a difference. Examples glare on water, CLPL huge difference, slower shutter speeds ND use, cutting glare on greens or fall colors on a sunny day. CLPL. I no longer use a CLPL for skies as I find I prefer C1's blue rendering without anything.

    Paul

  36. #36
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    I try and get as much as I can in-camera before resorting to software. That said, while I keep the filters handy I don't use them all of the time; it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.....

    Don
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  37. #37
    Senior Member aztwang's Avatar
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Don, Have you or anyone else seen Bear Images new proprietary adapter for wide glass. The adapter is supposed to work with Lee 4" glass filters and supposedly is real slick.

  38. #38
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by aztwang View Post
    Don, Have you or anyone else seen Bear Images new proprietary adapter for wide glass. The adapter is supposed to work with Lee 4" glass filters and supposedly is real slick.
    This is the first I've heard of the filters. Did a fast search and couldn't find anything, any chance you have a link?

    Don
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  39. #39
    Senior Member aztwang's Avatar
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    This is the first I've heard of the filters. Did a fast search and couldn't find anything, any chance you have a link?

    Don
    Jim Taskett of Bear Images told me about it after I had heard rumor of it and if my memory serves me right he said they're only selling them to those customers who bought glass from them..i.e. 35LS... BUT I would verify it with them to make sure my statement is true.
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  40. #40
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    I don't have my 35LS as yet however based on what I've seen using the Cokin on the 40-80 I see no problems using the Cokin on the 35LS. I currently have adaptor rings for all my LS lenses and use only the Cokin which I'm very pleased with. The only reason I have the Lee Sw150 is that was what is available for the 28D otherwise I'd rather use just one filter system.

    Don
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  41. #41
    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Just how bad is the Schneider 28D or LS on a 180?

    That's an expensive 5mm Don. Yikes !

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