Hasselblad CFV-50c to Sell at $9995 During 4Q15

[richardman]

Not that I have $10K, and I would be interested in the back for a Hassy body (203FE), but a friend replied with this message:

"..,then after divesting yourself of 10k you find the thing is a total PitA to align, like, when scrutinised closely ALL your images will show resolution shifts across the frame...unless really carefully aligned on an optical bench and never removed from that body.

I tested one with about 8 Hasselblad bodies when it came out, from a clapped out 500c to a 203. All rubbish. The resolution changes didn't bother me, but the visible alterations in tone and texture that went with them did."

 

[Jager]

Well, according to what I found, the CFV50C has only a Firewire 800 interface..... No USB. A BIG mistake.....
FW800 is dead, now that Apple abandoned it in lieu of Thunder-whatever.....
Find a current model Tablet or Laptop or Desktop that has FW800..... You will need to put an aftermarket card in your PC, by an old Mac-something, or.... SOL.

I do think there is an adapter from Apple that does FW800 to Thunder-whatever..... Now you must find out if that accessory will supply sufficient power to power the CFV... as the FW connector blocks use of the battery... ie, Battery or FW, not both. And Hasselblad recommends you have the FW computer powered from AC, not battery.....

I think there is a prejudice on the part of Back makers that if you are tethered, you must be indoors, in a studio,,,,, ie, whatever you need you can just wire up..... The outdoor landscape community is just not considered. ( this changed with the recent Credo and P1 backs)

Having said that, I am most interested as well..... but I am also looking at a Credo 40... 4/5 of the pixels, a bit more expensive, but long term support, use of C1, and that USB3 port are certainly commanding issues.....

FrankF

To try and clarify...

The CFV-50c does, indeed, tether via a Firewire port. No USB.

The Apple Firewire-to-Thunderbolt adapter ($29... http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD464LL/A/apple-thunderbolt-to-firewire-adapter) is pretty simple. That arrangement does not supply enough power to the back. What you do is go into the menu - there's actually a "Tethered Power" option for it - and select 'battery' instead of 'host.'

The tethered (FW) connection comes out the left side of the back, from the shooter's perspective. It's nowhere near the battery and certainly doesn't require its removal.

 

[synn]

Well, according to what I found, the CFV50C has only a Firewire 800 interface..... No USB. A BIG mistake.....
FW800 is dead, now that Apple abandoned it in lieu of Thunder-whatever.....
Find a current model Tablet or Laptop or Desktop that has FW800..... You will need to put an aftermarket card in your PC, by an old Mac-something, or.... SOL.

I do think there is an adapter from Apple that does FW800 to Thunder-whatever..... Now you must find out if that accessory will supply sufficient power to power the CFV... as the FW connector blocks use of the battery... ie, Battery or FW, not both. And Hasselblad recommends you have the FW computer powered from AC, not battery.....

I think there is a prejudice on the part of Back makers that if you are tethered, you must be indoors, in a studio,,,,, ie, whatever you need you can just wire up..... The outdoor landscape community is just not considered. ( this changed with the recent Credo and P1 backs)

Having said that, I am most interested as well..... but I am also looking at a Credo 40... 4/5 of the pixels, a bit more expensive, but long term support, use of C1, and that USB3 port are certainly commanding issues.....

FrankF

As long as you don't mind the less than state of the art live view (I don't) or need extra long exposures (Again, I don't), Credo 40 delivers incredible images. Current prices are quite reasonable too.

40 MP is plenty for most purposes, the files upscale rather well and if that is not enough, you can always shift and stitch.

9 shots, 135MP. No IMG tag as it will kill your browser.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5730/20628748483_bcd67477f8_o.jpg

(Test image, please don't judge)

 

[JohnBrew]

Come on, Hassi ! Get us a Full Frame CFVXXc at half (or better !) the price P1 is doing its IQs, and I'll happily get one for my tech-cam

I believe the Sony announcement is about 5-7 months away (according to those who can't be named!). Which goes a long way to explaining why Hasselblad has decided to cut the price on the CFV50c.
Still it's a great back and I loved the interface on the one I tried. It was also oh-so-nice not to have to jack around with the color (which was terrific right out of the back) like I have to do with my Nikon (even if it is profiled). BTW, I never even opened Phocus - just used ACR.

Synn, very nice mood image.

 

[Red735i]

To try and clarify...

The CFV-50c does, indeed, tether via a Firewire port. No USB.

The Apple Firewire-to-Thunderbolt adapter ($29... http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD464LL/A/apple-thunderbolt-to-firewire-adapter) is pretty simple. That arrangement does not supply enough power to the back. What you do is go into the menu - there's actually a "Tethered Power" option for it - and select 'battery' instead of 'host.'

The tethered (FW) connection comes out the left side of the back, from the shooter's perspective. It's nowhere near the battery and certainly doesn't require its removal.

I stand corrected... the CFV50C would physically allow the use of tethered connection and the battery at the same time. The FW connector in on the left side of the back, the battery fits onto the bottom.

 

[Red735i]

Not that I have $10K, and I would be interested in the back for a Hassy body (203FE), but a friend replied with this message:

"..,then after divesting yourself of 10k you find the thing is a total PitA to align, like, when scrutinised closely ALL your images will show resolution shifts across the frame...unless really carefully aligned on an optical bench and never removed from that body.

I tested one with about 8 Hasselblad bodies when it came out, from a clapped out 500c to a 203. All rubbish. The resolution changes didn't bother me, but the visible alterations in tone and texture that went with them did."

There is really only one way to attempt to make the focus "perfect" on any manual focus digital camera.... look at the output of the sensor....
which means, Live View or a Electronic VF or tethering.... Any other way requires the use of a secondary focus system which, by definition, has errors relative to the sensor.....

But somewhere you need to be practical.... and if that means you have a limited budget, or you do not or will not or do not want to do live view, or you have a full 500C setup and buying all the new stuff is not something you are going to do, then you must compromise.... and I think, as I am amateur, it is a fair compromise to achieve film focus accuracy in digital...

My Hassy 500C focus is close enough for me.....YMMV

 

[Leigh]

Well, according to what I found, the CFV50C has only a Firewire 800 interface..... No USB. A BIG mistake.....

Hi Frank,

There's a very fundamental difference between the two interfaces.
Firewire does all of the low-level control in hardware, so almost 100% of the available bandwidth is used for data transfer.

Conversely, USB does all of that low-level control in software, so only about 50% of the bandwidth is available for data.

More importantly, this puts a significant load on the CPUs at both ends, the one in the CFV and the one in the computer.
I expect that high CPU utilization in the CFV on top of its other functions would exceed its power budget.

- Leigh

 

[richardman]

...
But somewhere you need to be practical.... and if that means you have a limited budget, or you do not or will not or do not want to do live view, or you have a full 500C setup and buying all the new stuff is not something you are going to do, then you must compromise.... and I think, as I am amateur, it is a fair compromise to achieve film focus accuracy in digital...

My Hassy 500C focus is close enough for me.....YMMV

Frank, I probably agree with you, now it's only a matter of getting that $10K-$50

 

[Jager]

There is really only one way to attempt to make the focus "perfect" on any manual focus digital camera.... look at the output of the sensor....
which means, Live View or a Electronic VF or tethering.... Any other way requires the use of a secondary focus system which, by definition, has errors relative to the sensor.....

But somewhere you need to be practical.... and if that means you have a limited budget, or you do not or will not or do not want to do live view, or you have a full 500C setup and buying all the new stuff is not something you are going to do, then you must compromise.... and I think, as I am amateur, it is a fair compromise to achieve film focus accuracy in digital...

My Hassy 500C focus is close enough for me.....YMMV

I completely agree. Having made several hundred images with the CFV-50c on a 500C/M, with legacy Zeiss glass, I've used live view to focus a couple dozen. The majority have been focused with the native Hasselblad focusing system. Works just fine.

 

[dougpeterson]

Hi Frank,

There's a very fundamental difference between the two interfaces.
Firewire does all of the low-level control in hardware, so almost 100% of the available bandwidth is used for data transfer.

Conversely, USB does all of that low-level control in software, so only about 50% of the bandwidth is available for data.

More importantly, this puts a significant load on the CPUs at both ends, the one in the CFV and the one in the computer.
I expect that high CPU utilization in the CFV on top of its other functions would exceed its power budget.

- Leigh

In my experience that argument was more relevant in the days of FW800 and USB2.

Modern Phase/Leaf backs have both FW800 and USB3, which lets you make an apples to apples comparison. In these backs the images transfer faster using the USB3 option and I've seen no difference in power consumption. In fact if you run the numbers on transfer speed and data size you'll find that an IQ150/250/350 is outperforming the transfer speed of nearly any other USB3 device you can find on the market. However, this was not an arbitrarily simple task to pull off; Phase One was a full year late on enabling the USB3 port when they launched the IQ series in 2011.

Two significant differences that remains is in power provision and cable length.

Cable Length:
Firewire natively goes to 15' and can be quite easily pushed to 30' with very stable results (assuming use of a very good cable and a powered hub). Standard USB3 natively goes to 10' (optical USB3 cables can go much longer).

Power:
Firewire from a good port (typically a powered hub) can provide power over the cable enough to run a digital back. USB3.0 did not provide very much power; only enough for a trickle charge. However, with the recent advent of USB3.1 supported devices (e.g. IQ3) can now charge over USB.

 

[Leigh]

In my experience that argument was more relevant in the days of FW800 and USB2.

Hi Doug,

Since USB3 didn't exist at the time FW800 was designed, my comments rather obviously applied to USB2.

Thanks.

- Leigh

 

[dougpeterson]

Hi Doug,

Since USB3 didn't exist at the time FW800 was designed, my comments rather obviously applied to USB2.

Thanks.

- Leigh

Gotchya.

Yes, between FW800 and USB2 I'd take FW800 anytime (for high performance applications).

USB3 really changed things and USB3.1 even more so.

FW is definitely on its way out.

 

[Red735i]

In my experience that argument was more relevant in the days of FW800 and USB2.

Modern Phase/Leaf backs have both FW800 and USB3, which lets you make an apples to apples comparison. In these backs the images transfer faster using the USB3 option and I've seen no difference in power consumption. In fact if you run the numbers on transfer speed and data size you'll find that an IQ150/250/350 is outperforming the transfer speed of nearly any other USB3 device you can find on the market. However, this was not an arbitrarily simple task to pull off; Phase One was a full year late on enabling the USB3 port when they launched the IQ series in 2011.

Two significant differences that remains is in power provision and cable length.

Cable Length:
Firewire natively goes to 15' and can be quite easily pushed to 30' with very stable results (assuming use of a very good cable and a powered hub). Standard USB3 natively goes to 10' (optical USB3 cables can go much longer).

Power:
Firewire from a good port (typically a powered hub) can provide power over the cable enough to run a digital back. USB3.0 did not provide very much power; only enough for a trickle charge. However, with the recent advent of USB3.1 supported devices (e.g. IQ3) can now charge over USB.

All really good points, especially if you are tethered, in the studio. I may be biased, but I am a landscape person. No powered hub available, no need for a 5 foot cable, no less 10 or 15 feet. My thought is to use a Tablet, or more ideally, a smaller device like a cell phone, to do the LiveView function of composition and focus. Interface to that tablet is not possible with the Hassy CFV50c. I think it should have been available to appeal to my market segment.
Obviously, the back is marketed more to the Studio shooter than the landscape shooter.

 

[Uaiomex]

Hello, I didn't know that you could Live Focus the Hassy 50C back using a cell phone (iOS?) Because that along could be reason enough to go for the iPhone 6 Plus model.
Could you please explain to me a bit of the procedure and requirements?
TIA
Eduardo


QUOTE=Red735i;662040]All really good points, especially if you are tethered, in the studio. I may be biased, but I am a landscape person. No powered hub available, no need for a 5 foot cable, no less 10 or 15 feet. My thought is to use a Tablet, or more ideally, a smaller device like a cell phone, to do the LiveView function of composition and focus. Interface to that tablet is not possible with the Hassy CFV50c. I think it should have been available to appeal to my market segment.
Obviously, the back is marketed more to the Studio shooter than the landscape shooter.[/QUOTE]

 

[Red735i]

Hello, I didn't know that you could Live Focus the Hassy 50C back using a cell phone (iOS?) Because that along could be reason enough to go for the iPhone 6 Plus model.
Could you please explain to me a bit of the procedure and requirements?
TIA
Eduardo


QUOTE=Red735i;662040]All really good points, especially if you are tethered, in the studio. I may be biased, but I am a landscape person. No powered hub available, no need for a 5 foot cable, no less 10 or 15 feet. My thought is to use a Tablet, or more ideally, a smaller device like a cell phone, to do the LiveView function of composition and focus. Interface to that tablet is not possible with the Hassy CFV50c. I think it should have been available to appeal to my market segment.
Obviously, the back is marketed more to the Studio shooter than the landscape shooter.

[/QUOTE]

While I may own an Iphone, I do not own a P1 or Credo back. What I said was that is what I would LIKE to do. Not that it is or is not possible right now.....

 

[aztwang]

In my experience that argument was more relevant in the days of FW800 and USB2.

Modern Phase/Leaf backs have both FW800 and USB3, which lets you make an apples to apples comparison. In these backs the images transfer faster using the USB3 option and I've seen no difference in power consumption. In fact if you run the numbers on transfer speed and data size you'll find that an IQ150/250/350 is outperforming the transfer speed of nearly any other USB3 device you can find on the market. However, this was not an arbitrarily simple task to pull off; Phase One was a full year late on enabling the USB3 port when they launched the IQ series in 2011.

Two significant differences that remains is in power provision and cable length.

Cable Length:
Firewire natively goes to 15' and can be quite easily pushed to 30' with very stable results (assuming use of a very good cable and a powered hub). Standard USB3 natively goes to 10' (optical USB3 cables can go much longer).



Power:
Firewire from a good port (typically a powered hub) can provide power over the cable enough to run a digital back. USB3.0 did not provide very much power; only enough for a trickle charge. However, with the recent advent of USB3.1 supported devices (e.g. IQ3) can now charge over USB.

Doug do you have a recommendation for USB 3 optical cables. I assume the optical cables do not need a hub booster. Are these cables available as A/B connectors? I've only found them (Corning A/A ends and you have to use a A to B adapter to connect to IQ back
Thx!

 

[Uaiomex]

Yes Hasselblad but make it with a revolving sensor or bust!

Come on, Hassi ! Get us a Full Frame CFVXXc at half (or better !) the price P1 is doing its IQs, and I'll happily get one for my tech-cam