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Thread: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

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    How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Hi all,

    I'm wondering how far you actually push the above mentioned lenses before you hit the infamous hard vignette disk.
    These two lenses are my most favoured focal lengths and I would use them on my Credo 60.

    In practice, I would like to know how far I can push the 70mm HR for 6x13 panoramic stitching, and it it'd be possible to get 17mm of horizontal shift plus upto 8mm of fall on the back, as pictured in the attachment here. This is where a lot of my work seems to sit these days. I know the graph (sourched from DT) represents the published limits, but wondered if in practice there's a little more give.

    For the 40mm HR, I'm only interested in single capture so not concerned about doing such big shifts, but interested to know where the disk pops up vs. what the published limits are.

    I'm also wondering what C1 is like in dealing with LCC shots where the hard vignette is visible. I know Phocus freaks out with it, so wondering if C1 can handle it and still enable you to process the LCC and apply it to a file (to perhaps crop it out later.)

    Thanks,

    TJV
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    On a Phase One sensor you can push the 40 to 16mm of shift. After that you hit the edge of the disk. I can't speak to the 70mm.

    I have taken mine to 18mm knowing I would lose the top/bottom edge due to the hard vignette.

    You also have to look for a white band that may show prior to the black which can effect a solid color like blue sky.

    Paul

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    With the 40HR, as Paul says, you can get 15mm (perhaps a little more), even with a full-frame (40x54) sensor. However, you will not be able to do that in a horizontal shift AND get 8mm in vertical.

    I don't have the 70HR, but based on spec, you should be able to come close to what you need. The IC is 100mm.

    The option to consider is the SK60XL. It has an IC of 120mm, and you can easily get what you are looking for and then some. It is small, sharp, great for stitching.
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Jagsiva, Good point. If you want to do a 9 part stitch the 60mm XL works better. If you go up with rise on the 40mm the upper left shot really suffers with the hard vignette from the disk.

    60mm has considerably less hyper focal distance than the 40mm and mine seems to prefer F11 on stitches.

    Paul

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Jagsiva, Good point. If you want to do a 9 part stitch the 60mm XL works better. If you go up with rise on the 40mm the upper left shot really suffers with the hard vignette from the disk.

    60mm has considerably less hyper focal distance than the 40mm and mine seems to prefer F11 on stitches.

    Paul
    In our Tech Camera Test (link: Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing - DT Blog) we have JPGs showing composites (with different image circles and shift amounts) with the 40HR and 60XL. That test did not include the 70HR. You can make some good conclusions about usable image circle size from that.

    Generally speaking including the hard disk edge on the LCC results in 2-3 mm worth of aberration along the edge of the image circle. Better not to include it where otherwise possible. You can somewhat recover from this issue by processing with and without 100% light fall off correction and then manually blending in PS.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Jagsiva, Good point. If you want to do a 9 part stitch the 60mm XL works better. If you go up with rise on the 40mm the upper left shot really suffers with the hard vignette from the disk.

    60mm has considerably less hyper focal distance than the 40mm and mine seems to prefer F11 on stitches.

    Paul
    Thank you for that hyper focal information Paul. You probably saved me from a great deal of frustration, as I just acquired this lens and would have probably stitched at f8.
    Stanley
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post

    60mm has considerably less hyper focal distance than the 40mm and mine seems to prefer F11 on stitches.

    Paul
    Absolutely. I tend to shoot the Rodies at f8/9 and the SK's at f11/12 on an IQ180.
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Great, thanks guys.

    The 60SK is obviously right up there in terms of performance and I'm looking at it too, but I much prefer the 70mm FOV for single shot work.

    For pano stitching, the 60mm is a no-brainer, but I need to think strategically and *cough* save money where I can...

    My perfect two lens kit is the 40mm and 70mm, but only if I can stitch with the 70mm. I currently have the RS 55mm APO-SD and 90mm HR-W. The 55mm is adequate for stitching in the field, but only if you don't look to closely in the final 1/4 sections of a 6x13 stitched frame. Single shot it's fine, but not a great performer when pushed. The 90mm is practically perfect no matter what I throw at it!

    So...

    It seems I need a three lens kit to be really happy. the 40mm, 60mm and 70mm... Who said this was ever going to be cheap?

    TJV

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    I wanted to check back with my files before I added:

    You can shift the 60XL on a Phase 60MP back to around 25mm and at F14 or so use most of the image. There will be considerable light fall off on such a shift and the usual Schneider red color cast, however C1 cleans it up very nicely. 20mm is no stretch at all at F11. This is the one lens I can shift to 20mm besides the 120mm Schneider which I rarely use. The 90mm HR can't quite get there even though it has a huge image circle (20mm) but can do 18mm with ease.

    I use the Schneider CF on my 60mm, it does cut the light 2.5 or so stops but sure makes the shifts cleaner. The CF takes you to 72mm outer threads if you are a filter user.

    This is the one area I fault Arca on, as the rm3di, stops at 15mm of shift in the normal configuration. I sure wish they had made it go to 20mm. You can rotate the camera so that rise/fall is now your shift which I often do when I have the 60mm on, but this requires an L bracket and a support under the Arca as you will get some vibration issues with the camera is such a configuration without support.

    Paul
    Paul Caldwell
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Great, thanks guys.

    The 90mm is practically perfect no matter what I throw at it!
    In the spirit of Dante and helping you spend even more money, try throwing the new 90HRSW at it
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post

    This is the one area I fault Arca on, as the rm3di, stops at 15mm of shift in the normal configuration. I sure wish they had made it go to 20mm. You can rotate the camera so that rise/fall is now your shift which I often do when I have the 60mm on, but this requires an L bracket and a support under the Arca as you will get some vibration issues with the camera is such a configuration without support.

    Paul
    Agreed. I wish the Arca had +/- 25mm, or even flip the body around, as I always seem to need L/R more than Up/Down. The L-bracket is cumbersome as you say. I use the sliding back for larger shifts, but again, it is not nearly as elegant as it would be using just the body alone.

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I wanted to check back with my files before I added:

    You can shift the 60XL on a Phase 60MP back to around 25mm and at F14 or so use most of the image. There will be considerable light fall off on such a shift and the usual Schneider red color cast, however C1 cleans it up very nicely. 20mm is no stretch at all at F11. This is the one lens I can shift to 20mm besides the 120mm Schneider which I rarely use. The 90mm HR can't quite get there even though it has a huge image circle (20mm) but can do 18mm with ease.

    I use the Schneider CF on my 60mm, it does cut the light 2.5 or so stops but sure makes the shifts cleaner. The CF takes you to 72mm outer threads if you are a filter user.

    This is the one area I fault Arca on, as the rm3di, stops at 15mm of shift in the normal configuration. I sure wish they had made it go to 20mm. You can rotate the camera so that rise/fall is now your shift which I often do when I have the 60mm on, but this requires an L bracket and a support under the Arca as you will get some vibration issues with the camera is such a configuration without support.

    Paul
    Hi Paul,
    Who sells a CF for the 60mm Schneider?
    Stanley

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    Hi Paul,
    Who sells a CF for the 60mm Schneider?
    Stanley
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...lter_ii_h.html

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Go to the bottom of this link:

    http://www.linhofstudio.com/products/Centre-Filters

    The Schneider filter is their number iih. That is all Schneider has on the filter.
    I believe the 60XL has 62mm front threads on the lens. The CF I have takes you to 72mm front threading.

    Not sure if he B&H link has the correct filter as they claim it has front threads of 62mm and exposure comp of 1.5x. Mine is 3x.

    Paul
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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Go to the bottom of this link:

    http://www.linhofstudio.com/products/Centre-Filters

    The Schneider filter is their number iih. That is all Schneider has on the filter.
    I believe the 60XL has 62mm front threads on the lens. The CF I have takes you to 72mm front threading.

    Not sure if he B&H link has the correct filter as they claim it has front threads of 62mm and exposure comp of 1.5x. Mine is 3x.

    Paul
    Thanks Paul
    Stanley

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Thank you,
    Stanley

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    Re: How far can you really shift the RS 70mm and 40mm HR lenses?

    Interesting re. the center filter with the Schneider 60XL. I hadn't really considered using one, but I guess it'd help a lot with noise when correcting for light fall with the LCC.

    Also interesting that you consider it a better performer with shifts than the 90mm HR-W. That's a pretty amazing recommendation.

    Thanks for the information.

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