Arca eshutter????

[cunim]

Anyone know what is going on with the Arca FP, CS, DM and so forth - all the eshutter bits. Looked rather good when announced a year ago. Now, vanished. Looks like Arcashop even took down their preliminary item description.

Is there a sad story here? Glad I kept my Rollei gear.

 

[Frederic]

AFAIK nothing has vanished, Arca-Shop.de is not the official website/store, only a german retailer.
The french store lists all the dEx accessories : http://www.arca-swiss-magasin.com/contents/fr/d96_arca-swiss-system-dex.html

You better ask AS directly : [email protected]

 

[Paul2660]

Last I checked on the shutter, FS is what I believe Arca calls it for Focal Shutter but I probably have that name wrong, it was still in testing. We might see some news of it this week? as the big photo show is going on in NYC.

Maybe Rod can give us an update?

Paul

 

[dougpeterson]

Last I checked on the shutter, FS is what I believe Arca calls it for Focal Shutter but I probably have that name wrong, it was still in testing. We might see some news of it this week? as the big photo show is going on in NYC.

Maybe Rod can give us an update?

Paul

The Arca Focal Plane shutter and Arca Central Shutter (i.e. leaf shutter) are both still being refined and tested. In general I assume an Arca product is actually shipping only when we (as a dealer) have received several ready to sell units.

This should not surprise anyone with experience with Arca Swiss announcements. They tend to be at least a year late in delivering the first customer units on anything they announce.

That said, they always deliver an excellent product in the end, and their systems are incredibly inter-compatible, going back many decades worth of their products. So if I had to choose between [good + late] and [mediocre + on time] I guess I'd pick the former... though it would be even better if they could be [good + on time].

At least they've never had vaporware; everything I can remember them announcing they have eventually shipped, albeit some of it only after a fairly lengthy delay.

 

[Paul2660]

The Arca Focal Plane shutter and Arca Central Shutter (i.e. leaf shutter) are both still being refined and tested. In general I assume an Arca product is actually shipping only when we (as a dealer) have received several ready to sell units.

This should not surprise anyone with experience with Arca Swiss announcements. They tend to be at least a year late in delivering the first customer units on anything they announce.

That said, they always deliver an excellent product in the end, and their systems are incredibly inter-compatible, going back many decades worth of their products. So if I had to choose between [good + late] and [mediocre + on time] I guess I'd pick the former... though it would be even better if they could be [good + on time].

At least they've never had vaporware; everything I can remember them announcing they have eventually shipped, albeit some of it only after a fairly lengthy delay.

Doug,

It seems that by your response, you feel I may not be familiar with Arca products or their announcements. Not sure where you are going with this, but I did want to clear up a few things.

Net, I am very familiar with Arca products, having used them now for over 20 years and their tech cameras now since mid 2011. I have followed many of their announcements like the e-module, and the e-module cloud since their inceptions so I do understand that Arca tends to announce certain products long before they ship. In the case of the shutters, they were officially announced during Photokina 2014, but they had been talked about long before that, at least 1 year. So currently Arca has had over 2 years to get the shutters to market. I fully understand that in that time frame there have been changes to the design. But still 2 years, is a bit long to me and probably to many others who have made investments in Arca cameras and lens mounts.

If you feel that I am not aware of who Arca is and how they operate, which seems to be the gist of your post, I feel that would be an inaccurate conclusion.

In my post, which you quoted, I also don't believe that I made any mis-statements. The products were announced at Photokina and the actual shutters were called by several names, until the official ones were given. What I stated was there has not been any official information on either of the shutters posted by Arca, and very little if anything has been written about either product since their official announcement over 1 year ago. Arca has no website, or blog, and I have not seen reviews by selected photographers in regards to either shutter product and the electronic modules to control them. I have also not seen any reviews on any dealers site, however if DT has written such a review, besides the original product announcement, please forward it on. Throughout 2014 I was in touch with the US Arca Rep Rod Klukas in regards to both shutter products and have also spoken to him several times this year as I am still very interested in the Focal Plane shutter from Arca. Net, there has been really nothing new in regards to information or pricing since the original announcements besides the fact that Arca is still testing the products.

Arca does make great products, and I have commented on the positives about them numerous times on this site and others.

Paul Caldwell

 

[stngoldberg]

Paul,
Would you please explain why you are interested in a focal plane shutter for your Arca technical camera
I am also a huge Arca fan boy, but using a low ISO on my back, even in the brightest sunlight, the shutter speeds present on the Rodenstock and Schneider lenses I am using are sufficient.
Stanley

 

[dougpeterson]

Paul,

I did quote you, so I understand how you took my post as directed at you or implying something.

It was not intended as such.

I only wanted to clarify for other readers that Arca is well known for taking longer than expected to deliver announced products. But that's it's usually worth the wait. That's all.

I know you know Arca very well.

 

[cunim]

Thanks for the info. Still working on it is what I have heard as well. I just become concerned over this long time period and I have had no reply from AS to my query about the topic.

Stanley, not sure about why Paul wants this but I want to use my board mount and R-mount lenses on my Monolith for studio work. E-shutters are a great help there.

 

[Paul2660]

Paul,
Would you please explain why you are interested in a focal plane shutter for your Arca technical camera
I am also a huge Arca fan boy, but using a low ISO on my back, even in the brightest sunlight, the shutter speeds present on the Rodenstock and Schneider lenses I am using are sufficient.
Stanley

Hello Stanley.

I have longed for a better shutter system, than the copal setup. (which is funny as I always felt the hangup for me would be focus) I have 6 currently and all of them are totally inaccurate. So 1 for example may shoot 1/90 or 1/45th when I have selected 1/60th, and 180th, when I have selected 1/125. None of them will give me 1/250, instead I tend to get 1/180th and or 1/350th. On the slower speeds, say 1/4th and slower, it's not as critical to me.

And the copals by design only give full stops, no 1/3 or 1/5 stops.

What I have found with a CCD back, is that light is by far the most important aspect of the shot, at least shooting outdoors, and the difference with a IQ260 on a 15mm shift of say 1/125 and 1/180th at iso 100 can be create a large amount of noise and loss of details towards the shifted edge of the image. My main reason for needing such speeds is that wind often plays into my scenes and I prefer to stop as much of the details as possible, instead of allow the blur.

The CCD chip can produce amazing results, but I have seen many a stitched frame lost (at least the last 4mm to 5mm of image quality) due to noise and detail loss. You can push the highlights as much as a 1 stop on a 160/260, but pushing the shadows just doesn't seem to work as well. But just a small difference in light that hits that sensor especially on a shift can make a difference. This issue becomes moot with a CMOS back, and that is the direction of the industry but I personally don't want a 100MP CMOS back, I don't need that extra resolution or huge added cost.

The Arca solution albeit expensive, appealed to me for a few reasons:

1. The focal shutter will work with the Universalis, so in the future if I go there, I might be able to use Canon TS lenses on either a IQ back or Sony.

2. I liked the design factor of the shutter and the fact that it fired via wifi, thus eliminating any hands on rig, to reduce the issue of vibration. Even with a leaf shutter Copal setup, at times I can get lazy and not use good technique and get some vibration.

3. With a tethered setup, S3 to IQ, and the shutter I was thinking that it would allow me to "get" away from the camera to position the S2 or S3 out of the light to allow better viewing. Give me a bit more flexibility.

4. Although I am not a huge fan of the wifi/capture pilot setup, again I liked the potential of being able to setup, away from the camera and fire the shutter, then view the preview on an iPad.

5. The Arca Central shutter still maxes out at 1/250 as I recall, and I wanted a faster shutter.

I guess overall, I am just not big fan of the Copal shutter setup. The cables tend to get in the way of adjustment of the aperture and shutter at least on the wides I have and the shutters themselves are not very accurate. (at least mine aren't)

When Arca finally made the announcement last year, I was not pleased at the pricing, still am not. And the need to replace 1 focal ring on each lens.

What I guess I was trying to point out in my first post is the technology never stops moving and changing. Phase One to their credit has made major advances in both Camera design with the XF and lenses, with the new 35mm LS and 40-80LS. I have seen many results from the 35LS and it does appear to rival the results from the 32 Rodenstock, with a lot less trouble (LCC, CF, loss of 2x exposure due to CF, fragile lens issues). Arca had a ton of teething issues with the e module, and then the cloud version, and I am still not sure if the final product is really viable albeit it was a great idea. I have not followed it closely in 8 months or so. If much more time passes, other solutions will come to the market and the opportunity will pass.

With the XF and a 35LS lens, and a nodal setup, I could still get a lot of the shots I like. But the ability to stitch a scene at any angle (tech camera) and line it up in ptgui or CC is a great feature also.

A lot still needs to be shown about the Arca Focal shutter, as to both reliability and vibration issues. The shutter itself also needs to be of a high quality design. And the wifi connection that will be an interesting test. Again hopefully more will come out during the show this week.

Paul

 

[chiek]

Been waiting for this shutter for so long.
I think it will be very versatile for MF users. but How easy operate it… I wish portable system!

 

[stngoldberg]

Hello Stanley.

I have longed for a better shutter system, than the copal setup. (which is funny as I always felt the hangup for me would be focus) I have 6 currently and all of them are totally inaccurate. So 1 for example may shoot 1/90 or 1/45th when I have selected 1/60th, and 180th, when I have selected 1/125. None of them will give me 1/250, instead I tend to get 1/180th and or 1/350th. On the slower speeds, say 1/4th and slower, it's not as critical to me.

And the copals by design only give full stops, no 1/3 or 1/5 stops.

What I have found with a CCD back, is that light is by far the most important aspect of the shot, at least shooting outdoors, and the difference with a IQ260 on a 15mm shift of say 1/125 and 1/180th at iso 100 can be create a large amount of noise and loss of details towards the shifted edge of the image. My main reason for needing such speeds is that wind often plays into my scenes and I prefer to stop as much of the details as possible, instead of allow the blur.

The CCD chip can produce amazing results, but I have seen many a stitched frame lost (at least the last 4mm to 5mm of image quality) due to noise and detail loss. You can push the highlights as much as a 1 stop on a 160/260, but pushing the shadows just doesn't seem to work as well. But just a small difference in light that hits that sensor especially on a shift can make a difference. This issue becomes moot with a CMOS back, and that is the direction of the industry but I personally don't want a 100MP CMOS back, I don't need that extra resolution or huge added cost.

The Arca solution albeit expensive, appealed to me for a few reasons:

1. The focal shutter will work with the Universalis, so in the future if I go there, I might be able to use Canon TS lenses on either a IQ back or Sony.

2. I liked the design factor of the shutter and the fact that it fired via wifi, thus eliminating any hands on rig, to reduce the issue of vibration. Even with a leaf shutter Copal setup, at times I can get lazy and not use good technique and get some vibration.

3. With a tethered setup, S3 to IQ, and the shutter I was thinking that it would allow me to "get" away from the camera to position the S2 or S3 out of the light to allow better viewing. Give me a bit more flexibility.

4. Although I am not a huge fan of the wifi/capture pilot setup, again I liked the potential of being able to setup, away from the camera and fire the shutter, then view the preview on an iPad.

5. The Arca Central shutter still maxes out at 1/250 as I recall, and I wanted a faster shutter.

I guess overall, I am just not big fan of the Copal shutter setup. The cables tend to get in the way of adjustment of the aperture and shutter at least on the wides I have and the shutters themselves are not very accurate. (at least mine aren't)

When Arca finally made the announcement last year, I was not pleased at the pricing, still am not. And the need to replace 1 focal ring on each lens.

What I guess I was trying to point out in my first post is the technology never stops moving and changing. Phase One to their credit has made major advances in both Camera design with the XF and lenses, with the new 35mm LS and 40-80LS. I have seen many results from the 35LS and it does appear to rival the results from the 32 Rodenstock, with a lot less trouble (LCC, CF, loss of 2x exposure due to CF, fragile lens issues). Arca had a ton of teething issues with the e module, and then the cloud version, and I am still not sure if the final product is really viable albeit it was a great idea. I have not followed it closely in 8 months or so. If much more time passes, other solutions will come to the market and the opportunity will pass.

With the XF and a 35LS lens, and a nodal setup, I could still get a lot of the shots I like. But the ability to stitch a scene at any angle (tech camera) and line it up in ptgui or CC is a great feature also.

A lot still needs to be shown about the Arca Focal shutter, as to both reliability and vibration issues. The shutter itself also needs to be of a high quality design. And the wifi connection that will be an interesting test. Again hopefully more will come out during the show this week.

Paul

Hi Paul,
Thank you so much for your rationale. It all makes perfect sense, and I must admit that I wasn't aware of the inaccuracy of the copal shutters regarding shutter speed.
Stanley