stngoldberg
Well-known member
60mm Schneider on Arca rm3di attached to H5D50 shot at f8
No center filter, 2 degrees tilt used LCC
Stanley
No center filter, 2 degrees tilt used LCC
Stanley
The GetDPI Photography Forum
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Schneider 60XL on 60mpx chip (Credo60/IQ160 etc) samples
- Thread starter tjv
- Start date
Bryan Stephens
Workshop Member
back is fine. i paid 11k for it when they first came out, now i think they are new for even less. LCD, live view are very nice, no problems with focus determination, menus or buttons. not as nice as Phase interface, but by no means a problem. you have to use Phocus or lightroom; Phase has a feud with hasselblad, so C1 won't work on blad files. Phocus has less features, but will produce perfectly good files, just without some of the nicer editing tools found in C1.
the back is so nice on the 500/200 series cameras it will make you want one of those...
the back is so nice on the 500/200 series cameras it will make you want one of those...
I just made some test shots with the Techno and H4D-50 and the SK60XL this morning. It was raining so it was a bit of a mess to shoot (I need to hold the umbrella with my teeth when shooting the LCC). I made an f/11 and f/16 shot with 27mm horizontal shift along the side of the wall of a building. The stressful situation with the rain and my lack of routine shooting architecture caused me to do some mistakes though so I don't know if the images are worth posting: I focused a bit close and didn't aim the camera perfectly flat to the building, and underexposed a bit.
It seems like the lens has some field curvature, meaning that you can get better result on flat walls by focusing further away. f/16 doesn't necessarily make the (bent) plane of focus much sharper, but makes it much more forgiving on the field curvature so I'd recommend that.
I think Rm3D focusing DoF scales have field curvature compensation so it should be considerably easier with such a camera to get the optimal brick wall focusing than with a Techno.
I'll post some crops anyway in a minute
It seems like the lens has some field curvature, meaning that you can get better result on flat walls by focusing further away. f/16 doesn't necessarily make the (bent) plane of focus much sharper, but makes it much more forgiving on the field curvature so I'd recommend that.
I think Rm3D focusing DoF scales have field curvature compensation so it should be considerably easier with such a camera to get the optimal brick wall focusing than with a Techno.
I'll post some crops anyway in a minute
Here you have a test image:
http://torger.dyndns.org/sk60xl-test.jpg
I assume that with proper orientation of the camera and focused further away you can get pretty ok results on the wall on the shifted area. I'd need to to focus bracketing to test if it's possible, but when there's curvature my experience it's not that easy to fix. The best result for f/11 at 100mm IC is quite okay but it's at the bottom of the frame, very close to the camera.
At f/16 it becomes more forgiving.
The files are processed in rawtherapee with LCC applied, some normal USM sharpening (same amount for both f/11 and f/16), no noise reduction
Other SK60XL users could chime in and comment if my result mirrors theirs.
http://torger.dyndns.org/sk60xl-test.jpg
I assume that with proper orientation of the camera and focused further away you can get pretty ok results on the wall on the shifted area. I'd need to to focus bracketing to test if it's possible, but when there's curvature my experience it's not that easy to fix. The best result for f/11 at 100mm IC is quite okay but it's at the bottom of the frame, very close to the camera.
At f/16 it becomes more forgiving.
The files are processed in rawtherapee with LCC applied, some normal USM sharpening (same amount for both f/11 and f/16), no noise reduction
Other SK60XL users could chime in and comment if my result mirrors theirs.
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Uhhh may have had an old swing setting on camera, will check later. On the move, stressful days. Meanwhile beware the test file may not show the full potential.
EDIT: no accidental swing, I had remember to reset all settings from last shooting session. I've done that mistake enough times to get into my head "always pack the camera with zeroed settings"
Also note that you can get a stitched test file with IQ180 from capture integration here:
https://captureintegration.com/lens-testing/
It includes the SK60XL. When I get time I'll compare myself with their shot and see if my copy of the lens is performing as it should.
EDIT: no accidental swing, I had remember to reset all settings from last shooting session. I've done that mistake enough times to get into my head "always pack the camera with zeroed settings"
Also note that you can get a stitched test file with IQ180 from capture integration here:
https://captureintegration.com/lens-testing/
It includes the SK60XL. When I get time I'll compare myself with their shot and see if my copy of the lens is performing as it should.
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I've done a quick compare by eye with Capture Integration's IQ180 test of the SK60XL. It doesn't go out as far out in the image circle as my test, but almost as much. I think their result is better than mine, but I do note that their result is considerably sharper on the right side than on the left. My result is about the same as their right side result.
At some point in the future I'll investigate in more detail my lens performance, it might have some problem. I rarely do huge shifts though with this lens so it's not a prioritized issue for the moment.
At some point in the future I'll investigate in more detail my lens performance, it might have some problem. I rarely do huge shifts though with this lens so it's not a prioritized issue for the moment.
stngoldberg
Well-known member
Based on the information provided on this thread, I just ordered the CF for my Schneider 60mm. Truthfully, I have never seen a need for it, but now that I have read your posts; I'll always wonder...B&H will deliver in 3-5 weeks
Stanley
Stanley
The noise in my posted test shot is not really representative as the shot is a bit under-exposed in the first place, and then no noise reduction has been applied as Phocus was not used (I don't have Phocus installed for the moment), and the H4D-50 then shows quite much noise, it's the way of the Kodak CCD. However if you regularly use the 60XL for stitched wide angle panoramas the center filter is probably a good idea in any case.
Thanks all who have contributed to this thread and private messaged me with files and advise.
Spurred on by Anders's 60XL tests (which he has himself stated as not ideal and a bit suspect in terms of wheter or not his copy is decentered) I decided to try another controlled test of my 55mm APO-Sironar Digital.
In the first tests I did of this nature when I first got my back, I essentially focused mid frame of the centre image that was going to make up a 6x13 stitched panorama. (I shot three frames with 8mm of fall on the back, two two of these images also sifted +/- 17mm horizontally.) When doing this, the edges of the frames were pretty soft.
This time I focused on the outer edge of the center frame (at eye level, as this is usually where my most important detail is) and made the same movements. In short, it's a dramatic difference and I'm now convinced that either my copy of the 55mm APO-Sironar digital is better than the reputation of the lens; Anders's copy of the 60XL is dramatically out of spec; or judging by comments in this thread, that while the 60XL is very sharp for single shot capture and moderate movements, it's overrated when employing big shifts like this.
Below are some crops and a full frame reference file of a shot taken with my Credo 60. LCC is applied and full vignetting correction is applied.
All sharpening and noise reduction settings are as outlined in the previous example I posed earlier in this thread.
Crops and not quite from the very extreme edges of the frame as there was no more drop off of performance that extra bit out to the edge.
This is the frame with 8mm of fall on the back, plus 17mm of horizontal shift. Lens is at f16. F11 yielded marginally worse performance in the top left edge crop and f16 holds brilliant detail in most areas, so I'm not worried about diffraction.
What do people think?
Thanks,
TJV
NOTE: Like my examples posted before, these crops are looking softer than they actually are when opened on my computer. I'm not sure what's happening with the forum software, but you'll get the idea.
Spurred on by Anders's 60XL tests (which he has himself stated as not ideal and a bit suspect in terms of wheter or not his copy is decentered) I decided to try another controlled test of my 55mm APO-Sironar Digital.
In the first tests I did of this nature when I first got my back, I essentially focused mid frame of the centre image that was going to make up a 6x13 stitched panorama. (I shot three frames with 8mm of fall on the back, two two of these images also sifted +/- 17mm horizontally.) When doing this, the edges of the frames were pretty soft.
This time I focused on the outer edge of the center frame (at eye level, as this is usually where my most important detail is) and made the same movements. In short, it's a dramatic difference and I'm now convinced that either my copy of the 55mm APO-Sironar digital is better than the reputation of the lens; Anders's copy of the 60XL is dramatically out of spec; or judging by comments in this thread, that while the 60XL is very sharp for single shot capture and moderate movements, it's overrated when employing big shifts like this.
Below are some crops and a full frame reference file of a shot taken with my Credo 60. LCC is applied and full vignetting correction is applied.
All sharpening and noise reduction settings are as outlined in the previous example I posed earlier in this thread.
Crops and not quite from the very extreme edges of the frame as there was no more drop off of performance that extra bit out to the edge.
This is the frame with 8mm of fall on the back, plus 17mm of horizontal shift. Lens is at f16. F11 yielded marginally worse performance in the top left edge crop and f16 holds brilliant detail in most areas, so I'm not worried about diffraction.
What do people think?
Thanks,
TJV
NOTE: Like my examples posted before, these crops are looking softer than they actually are when opened on my computer. I'm not sure what's happening with the forum software, but you'll get the idea.
Yes, the corner has a fair bit of detail loss, but I'm yet to see 60xl samples that show it's better. The ones Anders posted were underwhelming, especially considering they corps from the center edge, not upper corner. I'd upgrade if the performance is markedly better, but am hindered by not being able to try before I buy...
Thanks Jag,
That would be awesome. I've just had a note from Paula at Linhof Studio confirming what I already knew to be true and communicated by all of you here before, that Schneider is now producing its last run of digital lenses, for delivery (at least for the 72mm that I enquired about) in the 18th week of next year. Really sad that one of only two of the big players is pulling out of this area... I'd better get in quick if I'm going to jump...
That would be awesome. I've just had a note from Paula at Linhof Studio confirming what I already knew to be true and communicated by all of you here before, that Schneider is now producing its last run of digital lenses, for delivery (at least for the 72mm that I enquired about) in the 18th week of next year. Really sad that one of only two of the big players is pulling out of this area... I'd better get in quick if I'm going to jump...
Paula is great. As for SK, I hear both sides, firstly that they will stop producing tech lenses, but I have also heard they are working on next gen retro wides and ASPH versions of the 150 etc. But reality is that they are selling crap loads of Phamiya LS lenses so it could be an issue of priorities.
Will get you a couple of samples shortly, Jag
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Schneider is leaving the large format lens business entirely. Rodenstock was destroying them market share wise. Not a surprise as most of the tech cam lenses we have sold in the last four years have been Rodenstock. Whomever hinted at a new line of Schneider retro focus lenses is incorrect. They got beat and are going home.
The popular Schneider LS line for Phase One cameras is unrelated and unaffected.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Our tech camera test included the 60XL with 60mp sensor and varying amounts of shift. Have you seen that?
https://www.digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phase-one-iq250-tech-camera-testing