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New to MF: Thoughts on Hassey vs. Phase One

michaelclark

New member
I am new to the GetDPI forums and I am seriously considering a medium format system. I have already checked out the Phase One XF and IQ350 backs, having received an email a few days about with the stellar deal on the Hasselblad H5D 50c WiFi, I was wondering if the more enlightened readers on this forum had any thoughts about these systems?

I realize that by asking about Phase One vs. Hasselblad I am kind of asking for it. I know both systems are excellent. If money were no object then I think the Phase One system is slightly superior - but not having used either for an extended period of time I thought I would ask here....thanks for any insight. I will be trying them both out before making a decision.
 

wagabundo

Member
if the money isn't the object, try to rent both system for a while - this would be the best way in my opinion. This is serious purchase.

btw, my few thoughts

- H5D 50c have great price..,
- both system have stellar lenses,
- XF and H5, both are great
- phase one company is less user friendly (business at first), but dealers do best they can
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Bias warning: I work at Digital Transitions, the 2015 Phase One Support Dealer of the Year. We don't sell Hassy so must be considered biased; though I do my best to provide solid advice regardless.

From your post I understand you've played hands-on with an IQ350+XF kit?

Have you had the chance to work with the H5D-50c WiFi hands-on as well?

Can you tell us a bit about what you do (what subject matter you shoot, what style you use, what you like about your current camera and what you don't like about your current camera)? Do you shoot tethered or untethered? People? Places? Things? Do you have any interest in a technical camera? Do you use strobes; if so what brand? etc etc

The more you tell us about you the more the advice you'll receive will be specific to your needs.

Ultimately the best option is to play with both systems and see which one suits your fancy and needs the best. There is a LOT you don't get from the spec sheet and price.
 

Bryan Stephens

Workshop Member
I am new to the GetDPI forums and I am seriously considering a medium format system. I have already checked out the Phase One XF and IQ350 backs, having received an email a few days about with the stellar deal on the Hasselblad H5D 50c WiFi, I was wondering if the more enlightened readers on this forum had any thoughts about these systems?

I realize that by asking about Phase One vs. Hasselblad I am kind of asking for it. I know both systems are excellent. If money were no object then I think the Phase One system is slightly superior - but not having used either for an extended period of time I thought I would ask here....thanks for any insight. I will be trying them both out before making a decision.
If you are not planning on a tech cam right away the Hasselblad H5D 50c is an excellent system, especially at the current price as in order to get into a similar phase one system brand new you will spend more, but it depends on what you are planning on using the system for, and what your budget is.

I have shot both Hassy and Phase and I ended up going with Phase at the time as it was easier to use the Phase back on a tech cam, which is what I primarily ended up shooting the back on to begin with. The focus mask is a HUGE plus (can't emphasize the HUGE enough in that regard). I used the phase back on an H2F at the time as I really didn't care for the Phase DF, but I know that significant improvements went into the XF so I would look at that.

Best thing to do is make a checklist of what exactly you are looking to do with the system, and then go and try the two systems. You can rent a Hassy system and if you are in NYC then DT can help you with the Phase system. If you are in the Atlanta area or Los Angeles, then CI can do the same. I have worked with both DT and CI and they are both excellent with regards to customer support and answering any questions you may have. After checking out both and seeing which one fits your needs better, then make your decision as it is like buying a new car (and probably more when you start to buy a stable of lenses and other gear), but it should provide a ton of enjoyment and excellent images.

Good luck
 

michaelclark

New member
Doug -

Hello. Thank you both for your replies. I have shot with the XF and the IQ350 just this week. The XF is very impressive. I will be testing out the H5D-50c here this next week hopefully, which will obviously help make an assessment. And I have already contacted Michelle at Digital Transitions. She has been very helpful.

I am an adventure sports photographer. Hence, I am one of those guys hanging off huge cliffs, swimming in big waves and the like. For the real action my DSLRs will be the go to cameras as I realize medium format AF is not up to the task. But for slower moving sports, portraits, landscapes and lifestyle images I would turn to the MF rig.

I shoot with Elinchrom strobes and won't be switching to any other brand as they can do things other strobes can't (Hi-Sync for example up to 1/8000th sec. with the new Elinchrom Skyport Plus HS) - plus they are a big sponsor of mine.

I did not find a transmitter that could sync my Elinchrom Ranger or ELB400 strobes with the XF reliably up to 1/1600th sec when I tried it out. If you know of any triggers that will work there that would be great to know. I did not test out my Skyport triggers or my PocketWizard Plus II triggers so I would still need to do more testing.

My Nikons (D4 and D810) have served me very well as can be seen on my website (www.michaelclarkphoto.com) but I am looking to take things to the next level for portraits and even the action images in terms of image quality.

The Phase One XF is great but at $14.5K for the same sensor on an H5D 50c WiFi I have to take a look at that camera - that is one hell of a deal these days.

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.

P.S. - Anyone know if the AF on the H5D is as good or better than the Phase One XF? I will find this out soon enough I guess but just thought I'd ask.

Cheers, Michael


Bias warning: I work at Digital Transitions, the 2015 Phase One Support Dealer of the Year. We don't sell Hassy so must be considered biased; though I do my best to provide solid advice regardless.

From your post I understand you've played hands-on with an IQ350+XF kit?

Have you had the chance to work with the H5D-50c WiFi hands-on as well?

Can you tell us a bit about what you do (what subject matter you shoot, what style you use, what you like about your current camera and what you don't like about your current camera)? Do you shoot tethered or untethered? People? Places? Things? Do you have any interest in a technical camera? Do you use strobes; if so what brand? etc etc

The more you tell us about you the more the advice you'll receive will be specific to your needs.

Ultimately the best option is to play with both systems and see which one suits your fancy and needs the best. There is a LOT you don't get from the spec sheet and price.
 

T.Dascalos

Not Available
I am new to the GetDPI forums and I am seriously considering a medium format system...
Other than agree with Doug on the questions he asked, I find it hard to believe that one that enters MF (as is concluded the quoted phrase), is going to do so at that level, based on other peoples opinion who have chosen their equipment depending on their own needs...
 

michaelclark

New member
Thanks Brian. A tech camera is probably never going to be in my future as I shoot a lot of action. I will be testing them out and DT has been helpful!

The focus mask was very cool - and the XF is definitely much newer technology.


Cheers, Michael

If you are not planning on a tech cam right away the Hasselblad H5D 50c is an excellent system, especially at the current price as in order to get into a similar phase one system brand new you will spend more, but it depends on what you are planning on using the system for, and what your budget is.

I have shot both Hassy and Phase and I ended up going with Phase at the time as it was easier to use the Phase back on a tech cam, which is what I primarily ended up shooting the back on to begin with. The focus mask is a HUGE plus (can't emphasize the HUGE enough in that regard). I used the phase back on an H2F at the time as I really didn't care for the Phase DF, but I know that significant improvements went into the XF so I would look at that.

Best thing to do is make a checklist of what exactly you are looking to do with the system, and then go and try the two systems. You can rent a Hassy system and if you are in NYC then DT can help you with the Phase system. If you are in the Atlanta area or Los Angeles, then CI can do the same. I have worked with both DT and CI and they are both excellent with regards to customer support and answering any questions you may have. After checking out both and seeing which one fits your needs better, then make your decision as it is like buying a new car (and probably more when you start to buy a stable of lenses and other gear), but it should provide a ton of enjoyment and excellent images.

Good luck
- - - Updated - - -

I definitely won't be buying any MF system without testing them out thoroughly first. I just thought I'd gather some opinions here while in the midst of testing...

Other than agree with Doug on the questions he asked, I find it hard to believe that one that enters MF (as is concluded the quoted phrase), is going to do so at that level, based on other peoples opinion who have chosen their equipment depending on their own needs...
 

T.Dascalos

Not Available
If a tech camera is not in your intentions and also shoot "action" as you say... Shouldn't Pentax 645 or Leica S007 also be considered? ....why are the detachable back cameras only in the question?
 

michaelclark

New member
The Pentax 645 seems plastic and not on part with the Hassey or the Phase One. Better lenses as well. Plus it would be great to be able to change the back out some day...and well, the Leica doesn't have many lenses to choose from so there are some limitations there and only 37 MP. I am looking for a higher MP digital back.

If a tech camera is not in your intentions and also shoot "action" as you say... Shouldn't Pentax 645 or Leica S007 also be considered? ....why are the detachable back cameras only in the question?
 

T.Dascalos

Not Available
The Pentax 645 seems plastic and not on part with the Hassey or the Phase One. Better lenses as well. Plus it would be great to be able to change the back out some day...and well, the Leica doesn't have many lenses to choose from so there are some limitations there and only 37 MP. I am looking for a higher MP digital back.
Strange... I thought that Leica has the largest lens range out of all since it includes all Hasselblad lenses too and their own and of Contax 645 with full dedication... and again... more Mp count (resolution is different to Mp count) than 37 for action? ...Why?
 

aztwang

Member
Doug -

Hello. Thank you both for your replies. I have shot with the XF and the IQ350 just this week. The XF is very impressive. I will be testing out the H5D-50c here this next week hopefully, which will obviously help make an assessment. And I have already contacted Michelle at Digital Transitions. She has been very helpful.

I am an adventure sports photographer. Hence, I am one of those guys hanging off huge cliffs, swimming in big waves and the like. For the real action my DSLRs will be the go to cameras as I realize medium format AF is not up to the task. But for slower moving sports, portraits, landscapes and lifestyle images I would turn to the MF rig.

I shoot with Elinchrom strobes and won't be switching to any other brand as they can do things other strobes can't (Hi-Sync for example up to 1/8000th sec. with the new Elinchrom Skyport Plus HS) - plus they are a big sponsor of mine.

I did not find a transmitter that could sync my Elinchrom Ranger or ELB400 strobes with the XF reliably up to 1/1600th sec when I tried it out. If you know of any triggers that will work there that would be great to know. I did not test out my Skyport triggers or my PocketWizard Plus II triggers so I would still need to do more testing.

My Nikons (D4 and D810) have served me very well as can be seen on my website (www.michaelclarkphoto.com) but I am looking to take things to the next level for portraits and even the action images in terms of image quality.

The Phase One XF is great but at $14.5K for the same sensor on an H5D 50c WiFi I have to take a look at that camera - that is one hell of a deal these days.

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.

P.S. - Anyone know if the AF on the H5D is as good or better than the Phase One XF? I will find this out soon enough I guess but just thought I'd ask.

Cheers, Michael
Regarding your sync question, below are 2 links from Capture Integration that I found extremely helpful;



https://captureintegration.com/definitive-guide-to-medium-format-high-speed-sync/

https://captureintegration.com/flash-duration-vs-sync-speed-vs-triggering-method/

Don
 

michaelclark

New member
Thanks for the tip on Leica - I wasn't aware of the range of lenses.....I will have to check that out as well.

Strange... I thought that Leica has the largest lens range out of all since it includes all Hasselblad lenses too and their own and of Contax 645 with full dedication... and again... more Mp count (resolution is different to Mp count) than 37 for action? ...Why?
 

T.Dascalos

Not Available
Leica is much faster than either Hassy or P1 and additionally one can have faster lenses with it for action if he considers the Contax 45/2.8, 80/2.0 & 140/2.8 additionally to Leica's own 100/2.0... But then again, why use MF for action at all? I don't think that MF makers have action shooters considered within their target group of customers... and as Doug said, one can't advise you out of his experience if his use is different than yours... In fact, I don't know anybody using MF for ...action! Won't you miss fast teles by choosing MF for action?
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Best thing to do is make a checklist of what exactly you are looking to do with the system, and then go and try the two systems. You can rent a Hassy system and if you are in NYC then DT can help you with the Phase system. If you are in the Atlanta area or Los Angeles, then CI can do the same. I have worked with both DT and CI and they are both excellent with regards to customer support and answering any questions you may have. After checking out both and seeing which one fits your needs better, then make your decision as it is like buying a new car (and probably more when you start to buy a stable of lenses and other gear), but it should provide a ton of enjoyment and excellent images.

Good luck
Thanks Bryan!

A quick note that we (DT) opened our LA office location this week in Culver City. I was there this week with six of our team providing a free Tune Up Day for local Phase users to launch the office off on a service oriented note.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
something to consider is that phase raw files can (and should) be processed with capture one, Blad's cannot and require Phocus.

i use both and much prefer C1
 

jerome_m

Member
I am new to the GetDPI forums and I am seriously considering a medium format system. I have already checked out the Phase One XF and IQ350 backs, having received an email a few days about with the stellar deal on the Hasselblad H5D 50c WiFi, I was wondering if the more enlightened readers on this forum had any thoughts about these systems?
Either system is stellar, the systems are roughly equivalent. The differences are mainly ergonomic (especially for the tethering software: Capture 1 versus Focus/Lightroom) and the rendering of the lenses.

This being said, I had a look at your web site and I am a bit puzzled as to why you would buy an IQ350 or H5D50c. The only reason would be to feed your Epson 9880, but do you print large often enough? If you do, then the better MF lenses will show on 44" prints, but a larger sensor would be even better (and cheaper).

For the rest: Elinchrom high-speed flashes are not designed for a central shutter (you'll need flashes with short duration for this kind of shutter) and MF cameras are not better than 24x36 DSLRs for action shots. What do you have in mind with your future MF camera?
 
M

mjr

Guest
Evening

There are lots of shots in the OP's galleries that would be suitable for MF, not just the action stuff there are lots of portraits and things.

As has been mentioned, I would very much suggest that you give the Leica S a try alongside the Hassy and Phase, it is pretty much the perfect combination of size and image quality, especially if you're out in the wilds as it is very well weather sealed. Worth a look anyway, I can definitely recommend it as I use it in lots of adverse conditions.

I did lots of tests with all 3 and the Pentax too, if you're not using a tech cam then I think the db route is less necessary when the Leica and Pentax both have such good image quality. The Pentax didn't work for me personally but a lot love it so worth a look too.

Enjoy your journey, no doubt whatever you chose will give you a smile whenever you look at the files.

Mat
 

michaelclark

New member
For the heavy duty action I will be using DSLRs as I have done for a long time. I have shot some action with MF and it can be done using Hyperlocal distances. Rock Climbing and Ice Climbing in general have action but not fast motion so that is a great application for MF. I also shoot portraits and lifestyle images for the outdoor industry and that would be the bulk of the work I would shoot with MF Digital gear.

Leica is much faster than either Hassy or P1 and additionally one can have faster lenses with it for action if he considers the Contax 45/2.8, 80/2.0 & 140/2.8 additionally to Leica's own 100/2.0... But then again, why use MF for action at all? I don't think that MF makers have action shooters considered within their target group of customers... and as Doug said, one can't advise you out of his experience if his use is different than yours... In fact, I don't know anybody using MF for ...action! Won't you miss fast teles by choosing MF for action?
- - - Updated - - -

Can you work up Hasselblad images in Lightroom?

something to consider is that phase raw files can (and should) be processed with capture one, Blad's cannot and require Phocus.

i use both and much prefer C1
 
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