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Thread: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Having fun with the new setup - these tech camera lenses are really nice! But I did have a Doh! moment today when I tried to use teh Phase LCC plastic sheet only to find that the bull bars on the Cambo mean you can't get it flush to the lens. What do other people do? And does anyone use centre grad filters with this setup? (Schneider 35 Super Angulon XL on Cambo Wide DS with P45+)

    Best

    t

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    When I used it a few months ago I was able to get is flush to the lens. Even with the bars.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    When I used it a few months ago I was able to get is flush to the lens. Even with the bars.
    Hmm... the bars extend a few millimetres further forward than the front of the lens - probably about a centimetre - and this must mean that some of the light going in the lens is not passed through the LCC sheet but is being reflected back off it, since the card is wider and taller than the space between the bull bars.

    I wonder if I should chop the LCC sheet up so I can hold it fully flush?

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Tim

    I ran into the same thing until I used my dremel tool to cut the plastic to fit then clear sailing from there.

    Easy to cut - just remember to measure twice and cut once...

    don
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Lordy, a dremel tool... we don't have those over here but they sound mighty scary!

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    Member Clawery's Avatar
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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Lordy, a dremel tool... we don't have those over here but they sound mighty scary!
    No Dremel? What a crime. I dont' know what I'd do without mine.

    Take a look at this smaller version of Phase One's LCC:

    http://www.captureintegration.com/so...aturedproduct/


    Chris Lawery
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    Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by Clawery View Post
    No Dremel? What a crime. I dont' know what I'd do without mine.

    Take a look at this smaller version of Phase One's LCC:

    http://www.captureintegration.com/so...aturedproduct/


    Chris Lawery
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    Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

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    Fantastic... really so simple and well priced too. How quickly do you think one could get to the UK if I ordered tomorrow? I'm off on a trip next Sunday and would like to take one with me!

    Thanks very much indeed for pointing this out!

    Tim

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Fantastic... really so simple and well priced too. How quickly do you think one could get to the UK if I ordered tomorrow? I'm off on a trip next Sunday and would like to take one with me!

    Thanks very much indeed for pointing this out!

    Tim
    Tim,

    Go to any lighting / plastic manufacturing shop...those that carry the translucent panels for fluorescent lights in recessed boxes in kitchens and office spaces. Those panel discolor very rapidly and are replaced on a regular basis. The company can cut to your specifications and this will suffice until you can get a delivery from Chris in the states. Should not be more that a few pounds...

    They will probably have you buy a set size and will cut multiples...I have heard that a lot of folks break the expensive filters so they have resorted to something simple like this...

    Glad to see the Cambo is working out.


    Regards,

    Bob

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by Clawery View Post
    No Dremel? What a crime. I dont' know what I'd do without mine.

    Take a look at this smaller version of Phase One's LCC:

    http://www.captureintegration.com/so...aturedproduct/


    Chris Lawery
    Sales Manager
    [email protected]
    Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

    877-217-9870 | National
    404-234-5195 | Cell
    Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
    That's the very same one I custom fit. While it is smaller I also found it just a tad to large to fit in-between the bull bars of my 35mm so I did my minor operation to make it fit better. The cut down version also works well with my 72mm.

    Maybe CI can offer a smaller card to eliminate the need for a dremel?

    Don
    Don Libby
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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    I was on a commercial shoot when I realized mine wouldn't fit on my 47xl. My assistant got a razor knife, scored the plastic as best as he could, then broke it in 2 using a table edge. Worked fine. Still using it today, although I did run some sandpaper over the edge to smooth it out. I figure one of these days I'll go buy a pretty one, but at this point, it works.....

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    I use an Expodisc which is a white balance filter. Just get one that fits over your largest lens an hang it on the lens. Works great and it's pretty indestructible.
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tal_White.html

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Sorry for being a complete newbie here, but is it possible to use something like this on any camera, with any software, or does it require special functionality, like C1 has? I am thinking here of using it with a Leica M8 and Lightroom.

    How does it work anyway. If there is a colour cast in some part of the scene, it is not necessarily the case that this is false or undesired, so how can the software know what to correct and what not?
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Sorry for being a complete newbie here, but is it possible to use something like this on any camera, with any software, or does it require special functionality, like C1 has? I am thinking here of using it with a Leica M8 and Lightroom.

    How does it work anyway. If there is a colour cast in some part of the scene, it is not necessarily the case that this is false or undesired, so how can the software know what to correct and what not?
    It's kind of cool really. In, C1, you simply shoot a frame with the white card held directly on the lens. That frame is then saved as a "lens cast correction" or LCC file and applied to the shot. The software "knows" that whatever is not white is color cast, so it is removed, or "subtracted" from the frame. I tend to see a lot more color cast when using really wide lenses, and even more so when incorporating large amounts of movements.

    It is possible to shoot the lcc, save it, then apply it to the frame you shot to see exactly what it is doing.

    Unfortunately it only functions when using a Phase One back and C1. I questioned a long time ago why such a correction was not available for the M8.

    Attached is an example. the 1st frame is the actual LCC, show with a 35xl lens and a P25. The second shot is the same frame, but with the LCC file created from it applied to itself. You can see exactly what it is taking out of the frame.

    Hope this helps

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Than copy that setting and apply to your real images.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Sorry for being a complete newbie here, but is it possible to use something like this on any camera, with any software, or does it require special functionality, like C1 has? I am thinking here of using it with a Leica M8 and Lightroom.

    How does it work anyway. If there is a colour cast in some part of the scene, it is not necessarily the case that this is false or undesired, so how can the software know what to correct and what not?
    Carsten, I think you could use this as long as you have C1 Pro.

    You use a very thick white perspex sheet over the lens to make a calibration shot with that lens at that aperture at that degree of tilt/shift (if any) and you use that frame to create a calibration for the shot you then take.

    Plenty of people don't make new ones all the time: rather they make a few reference shots (no shift, + 5, +10, horiz and vert for eg) and use them as a library and I hear that works well though for anything involving multiple shifts and in particular tilts, bespoke frames must be shot.

    The sheet is so thick that it theoretically (and indeed in practice) seems to create a calibration file which is pretty much independent of the scene itself. I guess you could always point the camera at a milky sky if one wanted to be sure.

    In any event with an M8 it'd be a doddle. No T or S so just shoot one frame at each main aperture, use C1 to create a calib file called for e.g., "M8 CV15 F8" and then apply it whenever required. This in effect was what I used to do before you could code a CV15 but wanted to to use an IR filter - I created heavily diffused reference files, inverted their colour in Photoshop and subtracted them as a layer form the shots. It worked really well!

    There, no more lens coding misery!
    Best
    T

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Carsten, I think you could use this as long as you have C1 Pro.
    Have you found a way to make this work? I tried it, but that feature is not highlighted with any raw file except P1 files on my copy?

    btw - love the photoshop trick, I might have to play with that one

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
    Have you found a way to make this work? I tried it, but that feature is not highlighted with any raw file except P1 files on my copy?

    btw - love the photoshop trick, I might have to play with that one
    You're probably right: I use a 'light' installation for my M8 files when I really went to get the best from them, and that doesn't have the option. My C1 Pro is for digital backs only since it came with my P45+... so I was just making a guess here.

    Somewhere over at LUF there's a thread or a post in which I outlined the technique in exact detail but Lord knows where! It did work beautifully though!

    t

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    Re: LCC with Schneider/Cambo

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    is it possible to use something like this on any camera, with any software, or does it require special functionality, like C1 has? I am thinking here of using it with a Leica M8 and Lightroom.
    you can do it in Photoshop. Here's a modified copy of what I've once written on LuLa:

    - Process the capture
    - Process the LCC shot with the same settings (white balance, icc profile)
    - Open capture in PS, add the LCC shot on a second layer
    - Invert second layer with the LCC shot and set layer mode to "overlay"

    ... in this case the luminosity of the LCC shot is important - in mode "overlay" only middle grey (50% grey) is neutral. So vignetting is corrected as well here but the final image might get too bright or too dark.

    To control luminositiy - i.e. just correct the colour cast - there is a second (and more accurate) way to do it but without correcting vignetting in the same step:
    In Photoshop...
    1st layer: capture
    2nd layer: create new, layer mode "overlay", select "fill with 50% grey"
    3rd layer: LCC shot, set layer mode to color
    4th layer: merge 2 and 3, invert, set to "overlay" and delete or turn off layer 2 +3

    The LCC in C1 is just working with Phase DBs, not with DSRLs.
    Last edited by thomas; 18th June 2009 at 15:10.

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