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Thread: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

  1. #101
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    This thread was started essentially as a Phase One marketing release, complete with front page supporting publicity, given that Doug is a Phase One dealer. Nothing wrong with that so long as you are aware of the situation, and its clearly a great new product. However, the problem with MFD and the reason I no longer use it in the field is sheer impracticality. By the time you earn enough to buy the kit, your body is too old to carry it around!

    Then when one gets in to stitching, how many photographers would really find the results from, say, a Sony A7RII 3 or 4 image stitch to be an inadequate, second rate solution? Not many I would think.

    Similar or better quality to a 100mp back has always been available if you use an 8x10 field camera and film. The reason most of us don't use it is sheer inconvenience. I see inconvenience (as well as price) as still being significant impediments MF digital cannot overcome, regardless of the pixel count.

    Still, happy to test out the kit if anyone will lend me a back and camera
    For renting it should be ok, at the end. Owning such gear on field is just over the top. Meanwhile, for 300$, one can find easily a TEXAS leica with a 6x9 sensor inside and produce out of the box superior results in many circumstances















    Sorry to hijack the commercial thread
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  2. #102
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    While the above images do look very good they are nevertheless being shown on a computer. In my opinion just about every type of sensor/camera will look good on a computer/monitor. The question is how they look when printed; in my case the sizes I normally print. How does this stand up to a 30x40, 40x50 and larger?

    I've kept quiet about the new release basically because I don't care for CMOS sensors. I prefer CCD for many reasons, among them color and how the sensor renders my landscape.

    That said, I'd love to see a 100 or larger megapixel CCD back. That comes out and I'd be selling my blood to get one.

    Just my 2-cents worth. Carry on everyone....
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    While the above images do look very good they are nevertheless being shown on a computer. In my opinion just about every type of sensor/camera will look good on a computer/monitor. The question is how they look when printed; in my case the sizes I normally print. How does this stand up to a 30x40, 40x50 and larger?

    I've kept quiet about the new release basically because I don't care for CMOS sensors. I prefer CCD for many reasons, among them color and how the sensor renders my landscape.

    That said, I'd love to see a 100 or larger megapixel CCD back. That comes out and I'd be selling my blood to get one.

    Just my 2-cents worth. Carry on everyone....


    Don,
    What Hulyss called a TEXAS Leica with a 6x9 sensor is a nickname for a Fuji GW690III film camera.



    --Steve.
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  4. #104
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Well... tonight I was speaking about it with my mother, who is a fellow Leica and Sony A7 user. We came to the conclusion that marketing (and especially internet) destroyed partly the core meaning of photography. So yes, being able to share photos with everybody around the world via internet is super. For that no need to have this kind of MF camera. The thing is film stay, in 2016, extremely used even among pros or artists. Vogue continue to accept negatives or reversible slides (yes, in 2016) and enlarging a 6x9 negative is pretty cool for the eyes.

    When you see all the digital photos of today you start to see the big picture behind it. Personally I'm done with the digital scam and 2016 will be a back to film because film rendering is unique and valuable. Film isn't expensive in the medium format territory. Film DR is unique and challenge even this 50k machine. Just Ektar 100 and your done. Give your slide to a specialist and he will enlarge it the size you want. Drum scan it and you'll have tremendous files. How much decades of science and professionalism have been spent in film development ? Those pros still exist and I prefer putting money in their hands instead on a computer and "webinars".

    The whole digital system chain is deceiving to my eyes. And I just signed 37.

    So yes, this camera will be bought to be rented. It will be bought by shops and "few" individuals, individuals which I doubt roam on any known forum. This is why such commercial posts are (for me) an oddity and I see that only in US forums...

    Sorry for the rant But I feel pretty happy to go full in film (and I produce a lot). Before burning 50k $... I can freeze some photons on slide for a while.

    PS: This coming from a guy who build 3D Virtual Reality gallery ...
    Last edited by Hulyss Bowman; 4th January 2016 at 12:43.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    I think we are a little like drug addicts, waiting the latest pixel fix. And like addicts, we keep wanting higher doses to keep us happy.

    i was happiest when using film cameras. Now I'm just a digital junkie.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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  6. #106
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Well... tonight I was speaking about it with my mother, who is a fellow Leica and Sony A7 user. We came to the conclusion that marketing (and especially internet) destroyed partly the core meaning of photography. So yes, being able to share photos with everybody around the world via internet is super. For that no need to have this kind of MF camera. The thing is film stay, in 2016, extremely used even among pros or artists. Vogue continue to accept negatives or reversible slides (yes, in 2016) and enlarging a 6x9 negative is pretty cool for the eyes.

    When you see all the digital photos of today you start to see the big picture behind it. Personally I'm done with the digital scam and 2016 will be a back to film because film rendering is unique and valuable. Film isn't expensive in the medium format territory. Film DR is unique and challenge even this 50k machine. Just Ektar 100 and your done. Give your slide to a specialist and he will enlarge it the size you want. Drum scan it and you'll have tremendous files. How much decades of science and professionalism have been spent in film development ? Those pros still exist and I prefer putting money in their hands instead on a computer and "webinars".

    The whole digital system chain is deceiving to my eyes. And I just signed 37.

    So yes, this camera will be bought to be rented. It will be bought by shops and "few" individuals, individuals which I doubt roam on any known forum. This is why such commercial posts are (for me) an oddity and I see that only in US forums...

    Sorry for the rant But I feel pretty happy to go full in film (and I produce a lot). Before burning 50k $... I can freeze some photons on slide for a while.

    PS: This coming from a guy who build 3D Virtual Reality gallery ...
    While I agree with you on your sentiments about shooting film, I don't believe in snobbery based on which format or medium one shoots.
    Digital absolutely has it's place, otherwise it wouldn't have been invented. Digital cameras have given millions of amateurs better photos than they ever got on film. I'm not sure putting good cameras in the hands of millions has produced a relatively larger number of great photographers, but it has definetely raised the technical quality of most photographs that are taken today.
    Film is still here for people like us that like a nice big negative and all the subtleties that brings, but in my personal experience, most of the time the sheet of film I've put all this effort into isn't quite the masterpiece you might expect given all the trouble. It's only when things all line up that film gives that extra edge.

    But, if I had the spare cash, I'd buy a high MP back and started my travels. An 8x10 would have to come along, but there are many situations where I would like to resort to digital. Bad weather comes to mind, high winds and rain are not areas where an LF camera works well (if at all.) Also when shooting in fast changing circumstances, like on a coastline, where digital does much better. Also, with LF, I can't do a full days hike and still be able to concentrate on photography. Those are just some uses for me as a landscape shooter. In studio there are a whole host of advantages too.
    Digital MF is still growing and will outgrow film pretty quick, I believe. When resolution gets abundant, the focus will shift away from technical perfection more and more and give way to things like uniquely rendering lenses and specialty cameras etc. (6x9 is not that far off 6x4.5 that you can't use those on a MFDB.)

  7. #107
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    I think we are a little like drug addicts, waiting the latest pixel fix. And like addicts, we keep wanting higher doses to keep us happy.

    I was happiest when using film cameras. Now I'm just a digital junkie.
    The thing with junkies is that they are never satisfied. But if we know we are junkies then half the work is done on the path of redemption

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    While I agree with you on your sentiments about shooting film, I don't believe in snobbery based on which format or medium one shoots.
    Digital absolutely has it's place, otherwise it wouldn't have been invented. Digital cameras have given millions of amateurs better photos than they ever got on film. I'm not sure putting good cameras in the hands of millions has produced a relatively larger number of great photographers, but it has definetely raised the technical quality of most photographs that are taken today.
    Film is still here for people like us that like a nice big negative and all the subtleties that brings, but in my personal experience, most of the time the sheet of film I've put all this effort into isn't quite the masterpiece you might expect given all the trouble. It's only when things all line up that film gives that extra edge.

    But, if I had the spare cash, I'd buy a high MP back and started my travels. An 8x10 would have to come along, but there are many situations where I would like to resort to digital. Bad weather comes to mind, high winds and rain are not areas where an LF camera works well (if at all.) Also when shooting in fast changing circumstances, like on a coastline, where digital does much better. Also, with LF, I can't do a full days hike and still be able to concentrate on photography. Those are just some uses for me as a landscape shooter. In studio there are a whole host of advantages too.
    Digital MF is still growing and will outgrow film pretty quick, I believe. When resolution gets abundant, the focus will shift away from technical perfection more and more and give way to things like uniquely rendering lenses and speciality cameras etc. (6x9 is not that far off 6x4.5 that you can't use those on a MFDB.)
    There is no snobbery ! The only snobbery is the digital industry who decided to milk consumers even more.

    Did I spoke about file storage ? Nope Storing slides cost nothing but a shelf or a dry drawer. With high end digital you start to see that you need to buy more HDD. Also, analogue archival have something magic no ? We speak about wooden furnitures, cardboards, loupes, silence, mastering, PRINTS ??? smells... a computer is cold (or not^^), dead, fragile and extremely individual.

    Why the fashion of today is to mimic film ? Why instagram is one if not the best digital photo vault out there ? Because of film mimic. Because film catch soul when digital catch datas. To understand that we need to be more sensitive or to return to sensitivity.

    I still keep digital but for "Important" works now it will be film ... and wooden furnitures
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  8. #108
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    I hope those samples start flowing soon, this thread is going déjà vu quickly!
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  9. #109
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Film has a distinct look that appeals in many areas ...

    I gave up using it when all of the decent labs in my area closed and those left started damaging my negatives - stains torn emulsions blobs of matter embedded in
    the negative and enough dust that I would spend hours spotting the scans ... as they were not that much better at printing.

    Digital does give one access and control over more of the process start to finish ... just have to find a sensor and post process you prefer.

    I occasionally use VSCO Film 5 which has a series of Ektachrome 64 and Ektar 100 emulations which are very good.

    After scanning some 3500 negatives with a Hasselblad Imacon 343 I would rather import sort post process and archive in multiple places.

    100 MP at full 645 size sounds great ... I will take a full 6x7 24 MP chip ... CCD ... if only they would serve the market that desires big fat
    pixels....

    Too many damn little cameras these days IMHO ....

    Rant over back to the topic...


    Bob
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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Rant over back to the topic...

    The topic? I forget; what is the topic?
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  11. #111
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Rant over back to the topic...

    The topic? I forget; what is the topic?
    You know .... sell a lot of stuff ... upgrade it every 18 months and keep the ball spinning.

    But I do have a question ... what in hell is with the red bloom on night pictures with this sensor ...

    Every stop sign or red light looks like a basketball aflame ...

    Maybe a profile update is in order ...

    Bob

  12. #112
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    This new Back is certainly a nice step forward for smaller images. But it is still too small !

    Reason: following the Arguments of some people who are in the steady mantra of Printing as Huge as possible,
    of course 100 Mpix are just a mere start, could probably be called beginners res.
    A 60x120" pano print with 300 dpi res has 600 Mpix and results in a 1,81 Gig image, which should have a reasonable quality on a Canon imagePrograf iPF9400.

    So I would suggest the Quality aware shooters shall stay in waiting position for approximately another 20 years and then we talk again.
    But by then Printing technology will have improved also, so it will need at least 1200 dpi for a then available 200x400" printer.

    ..................

    For all the others which are using what they have and what they can get, this new 100 Mpix back will be very nice.

    Go out and shoot what you have, don´t sell your childrens kidneys and remember : it´s just Photography , not 3rd World War.

    Have fun
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  13. #113
    Member Chris Barrett's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    This new Back is certainly a nice step forward for smaller images. But it is still too small !
    Agreed. While I am really intrigued with this new back, especially anxious to see the results of a 16bit pipeline... 100mb is much more than I need for my commercial work and less than I want for my personal work. For my art work, I'm currently shooting 4x10 color neg and drum scanning at 4k dpi. Why do I want to make such huge files? Because I can. I've just sold 3 prints from this new series at 40" wide and while I could have made decent prints off a digital back, I love the feel of the grain when it is just barely visible.

    I'm not making any judgments. There are so many ways to make great images and Hell... I just may buy the new back anyway.

    IMO,
    CB
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  14. #114
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Barrett View Post
    Agreed. While I am really intrigued with this new back, especially anxious to see the results of a 16bit pipeline... 100mb is much more than I need for my commercial work and less than I want for my personal work. For my art work, I'm currently shooting 4x10 color neg and drum scanning at 4k dpi. Why do I want to make such huge files? Because I can. I've just sold 3 prints from this new series at 40" wide and while I could have made decent prints off a digital back, I love the feel of the grain when it is just barely visible.

    I'm not making any judgments. There are so many ways to make great images and Hell... I just may buy the new back anyway.

    IMO,
    CB
    Can you shoot smaller raw? I believe I saw somewhere the new back does not come with sensor plus.

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Doug, thanks gain for posting this info on a Sunday. I don't believe you have ever mislead anyone here that you are a dealer, and one of your interests is to promote and sell your gear...but getting this info out on your day off was still a very nice gesture.

    Coming back to point...

    I have been shooting with the IQ180/Aptus 12 on a tech cam since 2010. Assuming my skills, creativity or experience did not get in the way, I always felt that this kit delivered the best results for my style of landscape shots.

    The new IQ3 100MP, so far on paper, looks to be the first camera I'd think about upgrading to. My list of improvements for the IQ180 were:

    Better focussing - LV and screen size. Both appear to be addressed with CMOS LV and HDMI monitor out.
    Keep with FF - again addressed with 54x40mm chip
    Keep resolution at 80MP or higher - 100MP is as good as any number, although we'll wait and see the cost of 4.6 micron pixels.
    Better high ISO performance - Again, on paper, blows away the IQ180
    Better long-exposure - Spec looks good. Assuming no issues like on the IQ260, and some flexibility around dark frames, looks good.
    No need for LCC - unfortunately this will likely be the same, hopefully not worse.

    So the new back, on paper, addresses everything on my wish list, with the exception of the last item. I await tests and samples eagerly as most people here. WA colour cast would be a show stopper. It could, of course, be cheaper, but such is life. If I look at an IQ180/DF price 6 years ago, or IQ380/DF+ price last year, it is comparable to the new IQ3 100MP/XF price. Kinda like apple, price points stay about the same, but you get more. Sure looks like it's working for Phase. More importantly, there is innovation. Phase has had more going on in MFDB in the last 10 years, compared to everyone else put together. When you add in the capabilities of C1P and the investment in software R&D, it is refreshing and reassuring. I have my issues with Phase for sure, but one needs to be objective sometimes.

    In the meantime, not sure why we are back to film vs. digital, Phase vs. Hasselblad, Lucas vs. Disney, etc. There is so much material written on this stuff already On a positive note, we only have 3 pages of whining, while LuLa has just passed 10!
    Last edited by jagsiva; 4th January 2016 at 16:07.
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    ...By the time you earn enough to buy the kit, your body is too old to carry it around! ....
    “Anything more than 500 yards from the car just isn’t photogenic.” - Edward Weston

    :-)
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    I downloaded one of the (iso 50) Raw files from the IQ3 100mp and wow. About as perfect and clean as I have seen. It is of an outdoor town scene in bad light. Dynamic Range (shadow recovery) is stunning. I removed all of the (lens, noise, you name it, everything off or at zero) corrections and just boosted up exposure and looked at the darker areas and detail just keeps showing up, clean. Color looks really nice, comparable to what I have seen from the 50MP Sony sensor but even smoother and cleaner. Stunning.

    Looking forward to seeing more images made using this back.

    All that rubbish and complaining about whether anyone can afford it, need it, want it, whether Phase is gonna survive, whether dealers and the marketing dpt. use cheap sales techniques, whether you can achieve the same using much cheaper gear etc. etc. just have nothing to do with how this back performs. That is just background noise. The back is amazing. The whole IQ series from the start has been impressive. (I own one, IQ160, and although it was expensive I never regretted buying it, still performs great).

    Choosing gear is a very personal process and honestly it is getting tiring reading through all the complaints, rants and rubbish and technical stuff instead of more about how the gear works during photography which is the main purpose of such things. If you find serious faults using the gear in the discussion fine, post them in context of the photography but man, some threads here and specially in the other MF forum are getting ridiculous. Just helps to drive away the photographers and technicians who actual deal with Medium Format Digital gear.
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    SrM:

    nailed it!

    i have always considered Edward my mentor

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Just want to add one thing - at the time the 35mm format had 12 mpix and MFD had 40 that was a really sexy difference for most people. Now, having canon with 50 mpix and sony with 42 (and I hope Nikon is getting something around that) it's not that delicious. Really, how many people use their 42-50 mpix fully? Having 42 in a camera do they really feel the need for more? I doubt it.

    I'm personally trying to get Zeiss Otus lens. That lenses are really hot. So are photographs taken with them... But that's work in progress

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    ... On a positive note, we only have 3 pages of whining, while LuLa has just passed 10!
    Good that I don't have money to subscribe

    I would buy this back immediately, but since I can barely afford Hassy shooting film, I can only dream

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    “Anything more than 500 yards from the car just isn’t photogenic.” - Edward Weston

    :-)
    Corollary: Nobody really cares how far you had to walk or not to get the shot.

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmueller View Post
    Corollary: Nobody really cares how far you had to walk or not to get the shot.
    We are the only ones that care and ask. Most other people either like the print or not.

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLF View Post
    Just want to add one thing - at the time the 35mm format had 12 mpix and MFD had 40 that was a really sexy difference for most people. Now, having canon with 50 mpix and sony with 42 (and I hope Nikon is getting something around that) it's not that delicious. Really, how many people use their 42-50 mpix fully? Having 42 in a camera do they really feel the need for more? I doubt it.

    I'm personally trying to get Zeiss Otus lens. That lenses are really hot. So are photographs taken with them... But that's work in progress
    You don't see the difference because you don't shoot a MFDB and process those files if you did it once your sure to see its not just sexy?

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Well, there is a point that when the small formats get too good the larger ones get semi-obsolete. That happened to large format film when medium format digital got too good. However large format film is not gone, and medium format can survive on being a niche even if most professional production transitions to smaller formats.

    You have industrial, medical, cartography, military institutions etc, and you have prestige luxury, and you have those high end art photographers that make really huge prints.

    And really, $44k is not that much money if you have a full-time business, and indeed it's about the same price as all the other king-of-the-hill backs Phase One has released over the years. They know what gear costs the pro customers are able to motivate.

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by bab View Post
    You don't see the difference because you don't shoot a MFDB and process those files if you did it once your sure to see its not just sexy?
    Right, I don't. But this is what I'm talking about - most people don't see it for this reason or any other. At the end, most people don't shoot MFD. And like I said, there's no way they jump in anytime soon. Especially, because there's less difference now between 42 mpix and 100 then it was between 12 and 40.

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    If the performance of WA tech lenses on this new sensor is on par with the IQ180/280/380, I think my line of credit it going to take a hit....but sitting here trying not to wet myself while test and samples come in, I cannot help but speculate that WA performance is likely NOT going to be stellar....

    1. The A7RII with BSI sensor still has issues with color casts. To be fair, color is slightly improved, but smearing and saturation falloff are still there. Even the modified versions with the thinner sensor glass don't get rid of the problem.

    2. SK gets out of tech lenses! Perhaps an admission of defeat to the laws of physics? Doesn't make sense that manual focus lenses with max apertures of f4 and f5.6 cannot be profitable at 5K a pop, even if you're only selling a handful of units.

    3. Phase brings out the 35LS - great lens rivalling the quality of the 32HR...but also in size and price, albeit without movements. Perhaps needed an alternative to tech lenses.

    4. Alpa puts out a sample image using the 90HRSW, but nothing wider.

    5. If results were stellar, would we not have already seen them from Phase? Surely, tech cam users are a big part of their customer base. It is also not unlike phase to leave some details out if it is a buzz kill, have certainly seen it before.

    6. We have seen the not so great results of the sony 44x33 sensor. That sensor is smaller AND has a pixel pitch that is 1 micron bigger.

    7. Rodie has not released or announced any new lenses since the 90HRSW, and that was eons ago.

    We'll wait and see...perhaps it's just me hedging my bets.
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    So...you "back to film guys"...where have you been?? I couldn't wait any longer and just sold my best production drum scanner. (which was $75K new in 2001 from Kiel, Germany)...My scanning jobs went from 100/day to 100/week to 100/month by 2008

    You ARE comparing "drum scans" of that "Texas Leica" film to modern digital...right?

    I would buy one of these IQ3 100's to replace my drum scanner, and my Credo80, if the business were there. But I kept waiting for the "hipster rebirth of film" that never came....sad. Oh well, if you all show up again some day, that would be great! I'll leave a drum on fer' ya
    But at my current price of over $150/scan....you might want to consider the IQ3 100
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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    The shots are Epson V700 or fuji frontier scans. I have an enterprise close to home who is specialized to print political or commercial billboards and they possess a drum-scanner (wet) and they charge me 10€ per photos IF I need a drum scan... They keep it because they have a slow demand and because it is paid since decades. On the other hand, for forum display, a fuji frontier HIGh jpeg scan is largely sufficient.

    Who on hearth said that every film should be drum scanned to be good ? Plustech have a wonderful 120 scanner and Nikon coolscan are legion. I do not go into detail if one start to use digital and macro lens ... http://www.getdpi.com/forum/large-fo...tml#post675524

    150$ for a scan ? blimey !!! It is more than what cost me to print digigraphie certified 120cm x 80cm on the best hannemule paper. Fine but no... thanks.

    So yes this IQ3 back is legitimate for some demands but for the rest stitching with an A7rii might be just fine
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    maybe Phase should offer a subscription plan for say, $6,000 per year ($500month) where you can always upgrade to the newest at no additional fee
    he,he
    Last edited by jlm; 5th January 2016 at 06:07.
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Well, there is a point that when the small formats get too good the larger ones get semi-obsolete. That happened to large format film when medium format digital got too good. However large format film is not gone, and medium format can survive on being a niche even if most professional production transitions to smaller formats.
    This is why i abandoned large format (10x8) and MF (6x6) and MFD (39mp) and just use an Actus/Sony/Schneider/Rodenstock combo for my work. i have zero interest in ‘the look’ of MFD as i’m often chasing depth of field and out of focus rendering is of no consequence to me. (i have a sigma merrill for self indulgent arty b&w) all i see with MFD is a load of disadvantages and very few plus points.
    i’m not the only working pro to think like this, i know a lot who have gone through the same gear change and i’m not seeing the assistants buy MFD apart from shooting a few rolls of 120 on an old blad/RZ
    sure the new sony based sensors make them slightly more attractive but as i have no gear lust or vague notions of MFD making me a better photographer the money is staying in my comfort fund, using the digitars/rodagons even at diffraction inducing f11 gives me better results than any 35mm prime i have used (not tried an otus) this is from a position of using/shooting with all formats not a dewey eyed fanboy with gear aspirations.

    i dont buy the more considered/slower way of working thing either, i approach images the same way as i did when shooting 10x8 it’s just the polaroids are a lot cheaper!

    if i shot people on location a lot i would maybe think again but i do so little of that and a canon with it’s superior focus over the single point phase offerings would be the weapon of choice.

    for the huge print landscape market it’s probably a perfect system. but ‘print’ to me means a DPS or a billboard and 22mp easily does that.

    i’m not touching the phase koolAid™
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

  31. #131
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    ....

    That said, I'd love to see a 100 or larger megapixel CCD back. That comes out and I'd be selling my blood to get one.

    ....
    At 6'9"----that's a lot of blood.

    Exciting time this is with the new IQ3 100MP. I see this as similarly groundbreaking when Phase released the first full-frame CCD, the P65+ MFDB. Now we've got a full-frame CMOS MFDB, and with the IQ interface, and with a great XF camera platform...

    It's a great time to be a Pig. See you at Capture Integration in Carmel 2016!

    ken
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  32. #132
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    So...you "back to film guys"...where have you been?? I couldn't wait any longer and just sold my best production drum scanner. (which was $75K new in 2001 from Kiel, Germany)...My scanning jobs went from 100/day to 100/week to 100/month by 2008

    You ARE comparing "drum scans" of that "Texas Leica" film to modern digital...right?

    I would buy one of these IQ3 100's to replace my drum scanner, and my Credo80, if the business were there. But I kept waiting for the "hipster rebirth of film" that never came....sad. Oh well, if you all show up again some day, that would be great! I'll leave a drum on fer' ya
    But at my current price of over $150/scan....you might want to consider the IQ3 100
    "Hipster" pshh. Are people still using that word? I guess if the top wedding shooters in the USA are all "hipsters"... Truth is the rebirth of film is exactly like the rebirth of vinyl only at a smaller scale. It's kept alive by a few industry pro's at the top of their field and a whole lot of artists and enthusiasts who just get a lot of enjoyment out of using a Rolleiflex (or something similar). With some exceptions film use today isn't about maxing out resolution, it's about the intangibles of the process. I would rather buy a drum scanner than pay drum scan rates, and suddenly that's do-able. You'd have been better off buying a Fuji Frontier SP-3000 if you want to make money. Jose Villa and Jon Canlas don't need pixel level perfection in their scans, just speed, fantastic color and the ability to print an album spread. That's why The FIND lab, Richard's and Indie Film Lab are pretty much dominating the scanning industry in terms of volume.

    If anyone is trying to compare resolution of 120 film to this or almost any modern digital back they're clearly diluted. Maybe Velvia CAN out resolve 100mp but once you get the scan you're losing so much of that. Hell even the optical printing process would have knocked that down a bunch. Plus grain will always get in the way even with Velvia. If you really understand using film today it's more about those intangibles I mentioned than maxing out image quality. Film can be very rewarding and is beautiful, truly archival, and the cameras are way more fun. But I would NEVER compare using a Phase back in any way to shooting film. Different horses and different courses for sure. Of course as a counter to that, if you're a landscape fine art shooter I will say that (fair or not, that's not up to me), you will elevate your work by shooting 4x5 or 8x10 faster than shooting digital. The art world still respects process and craft even when it's not necessarily fair. That's why Peter Lik gets an NY Times piece that completely eviscerates his work and his business and Alec Soth gets into Magnum (Yes, I am aware there are more differences than just that :-) ).

    Anyway, I think this back is badass and a step in the right direction. We haven't seen true sensor tech improvements in a long time. I am a wedding guy so I have no use for it. But maybe someday this sensor will be in a Pentax I can afford. Someday!
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post

    Exciting time this is with the new IQ3 100MP. I see this as similarly groundbreaking when Phase released the first full-frame CCD, the P65+ MFDB.
    it’s not such a huge step as the first 22mp and 39mp backs. thats when i saw a lot of photographers ditch film when the equipment was good enough and at the right price. early adopters paid silly money for very mediocre kit but those backs changed the digital camera world. the 5d and 5dII did something similar as did the sony/nikon 36mp cameras. 100mp is headline grabbing but as we all know the wxh pixel dimensions are not a huge step from 60/80. i dont see this back changing photographers purchasing habits or revolutionising their workflow. it’s just a slightly bigger sensor a bit like the old sensor.
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    Anyway, I think this back is badass and a step in the right direction. We haven't seen true sensor tech improvements in a long time. I am a wedding guy so I have no use for it. But maybe someday this sensor will be in a Pentax I can afford. Someday!
    I shoot weddings and I cannot wait to shoot my next one with this back. I've been using medium format digital for some part of each wedding I shoot since the Phase One P45+ and the amount of the day for which medium format is the best tool keeps expanding; I expect another leap forward with this back.

    Have you ever had the chance to shoot a medium format system at a wedding? It's a great place for high-speed sync (to add just a pop of fill or shaping light even in bright sunlight, without having to stop down the aperture), the dynamic range (black tux in shadow; white dress in direct sun), the lens look, and the great out-of-camera skintones. It's a secondary factor, but I also enjoy that people notice I'm not shooting with the same camera as Uncle Bob.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

  35. #135
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Kudos to Phase One for keeping the ball moving forward. It's a fantastic addition to a still photographers kit. I'm looking forward to when photographers have the back in hand and start producing images. I have a 8 x 10 K. B. Canham on the left side of my desk, on the right sits my Super D Graflex 4 x 5 slr., on my metal rack equipment shelf sits a domke bag full of digital Canons and finally a Gura bag with my Phase One IQ back and XF camera system. When an assignment comes in I reach for the appropriate tool.

    Most of us have heard versions of the saying, "If your only tool is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail". It's good to have quality options for taking the visions in your head, either for the commercial world of photography or fine-art, into a print or whatever media it’s meant for.

    Camera companies make cameras that's what they are supposed to do. We as image crafters have to always remember that content is king. What you are trying to "say" or "express" in your imagery is always to me the most important aspect of image making.
    Jeffery Salter
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I shoot weddings and I cannot wait to shoot my next one with this back. I've been using medium format digital for some part of each wedding I shoot since the Phase One P45+ and the amount of the day for which medium format is the best tool keeps expanding; I expect another leap forward with this back.

    Have you ever had the chance to shoot a medium format system at a wedding? It's a great place for high-speed sync (to add just a pop of fill or shaping light even in bright sunlight, without having to stop down the aperture), the dynamic range (black tux in shadow; white dress in direct sun), the lens look, and the great out-of-camera skintones. It's a secondary factor, but I also enjoy that people notice I'm not shooting with the same camera as Uncle Bob.
    My style is pretty much all natural light. I used to do a lot with film and a Contax 645 but lately I've been using the 58/1.4G on a D750 and a Rolleiflex 2.8F. I would love to do some MFD work but honestly to fit my style and workflow I think the only system that makes sense right now is the 645Z. I think the XF and Phase backs are amazing but I'm just not sure my work would take advantage of their strengths. If I was doing editorial or commercial work this is undoubtedly the top of the digital hill.

  37. #137
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffery Salter View Post
    We as image crafters have to always remember that content is king. What you are trying to "say" or "express" in your imagery is always to me the most important aspect of image making.
    There's also the great saying "if you can't make it good, make it big!"

    In the digital era the "tools" have become more and more similar to eachother, and similarity is increasing. Now with MFD going CMOS and 135 going highres they look very much alike. Fortunately they're not all becoming a hammer, but more like a swiss army knife.

    Tech cams are still very different, but I think they'll become more similar too in time, ALPA FPS is a first step in a direction towards a Sony mirrorless

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    There's also the great saying "if you can't make it good, make it big!"

    In the digital era the "tools" have become more and more similar to eachother, and similarity is increasing. Now with MFD going CMOS and 135 going highres they look very much alike. Fortunately they're not all becoming a hammer, but more like a swiss army knife.

    Tech cams are still very different, but I think they'll become more similar too in time, ALPA FPS is a first step in a direction towards a Sony mirrorless
    Thanks Torger. I always enjoy your thoughtful camera analysis. Looking forward to your views on the IQ3 100 with tech cam use.

    There is plenty of room on my shelf for a Alpa STC.
    Jeffery Salter
    www.jefferysalter.com
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  39. #139
    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Personally I am still being wowed by my IQ180. I don't really need high ISO or long exposure though and the resolution increase is nice but I really have all I need. Maybe if I run into an extra $26,000 I will trade up but definitely no hurry
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Personally I am still being wowed by my IQ180. I don't really need high ISO or long exposure though and the resolution increase is nice but I really have all I need. Maybe if I run into an extra $26,000 I will trade up but definitely no hurry
    Wouldn't CMOS live view be a nice addition?

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Does anyone know how much to trade in with IQ180 and DF+ for IQ3 100 and XF kit?

    Thanks
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  42. #142
    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    it’s not such a huge step as the first 22mp and 39mp backs.
    I dunno. The 22MP backs were only 33% larger in area, and 33% higher in pixel count than the 16MP backs, and had identical pixel size and technology as the 16MP backs.
    This 100MP CMOS, OTOH, is 50% larger in area than the 50MP CMOS backs, and 100% higher in pixel count, as it uses slightly smaller pixels. That to me is more of a large step.

    Maybe you could make a case for the 39MP backs being a big step, as they greatly reduced long exposure noise as well as greatly increased pixel count, and pretty much matched scanned medium format film.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    100mp is headline grabbing but as we all know the wxh pixel dimensions are not a huge step from 60/80. i dont see this back changing photographers purchasing habits or revolutionising their workflow. it’s just a slightly bigger sensor a bit like the old sensor.
    The 60/80 MP backs are the wrong comparison for the 100 MP back. The killer app is not the extra 20MP squeezed into the same sensor area: it's the fact that it's CMOS rather than CCD; low-noise Sony rather than high-noise Dalsa, with all the possibilities that throws open: high ISO, proper live view, clean long exposures without a dark frame...

    Ray
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    The comments, observations, and opinions on the new back might change a bit once people have the new back in their hands and have used it for several days. I speculate the new back will be better than most of us might imagine, particularly for those people who make very large prints.

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Who on hearth said that every film should be drum scanned to be good ?
    I did; and still do
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Santoso View Post
    Does anyone know how much to trade in with IQ180 and DF+ for IQ3 100 and XF kit?

    Thanks
    You need to ask a good dealer like Capture Integration, or DT, but it will run around $33,000 give or take a thousand, depending on which way the wind blows in Denmark that day.
    Last edited by narikin; 5th January 2016 at 12:47.

  46. #146
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks View Post
    I dunno. The 22MP backs were only 33% larger in area, and 33% higher in pixel count than the 16MP backs, and had identical pixel size and technology as the 16MP backs.
    This 100MP CMOS, OTOH, is 50% larger in area than the 50MP CMOS backs, and 100% higher in pixel count, as it uses slightly smaller pixels. That to me is more of a large step.

    Maybe you could make a case for the 39MP backs being a big step, as they greatly reduced long exposure noise as well as greatly increased pixel count, and pretty much matched scanned medium format film.
    I think the difference here is that once you get up to a certain very high quality further improvements are less valuable. I certainly see 22 to 39 a more meaningful improvement in quality than 50 to 100, despite that the later is in numbers a larger improvement. This is because 50MP is already very high resolution that can make large high ppi prints.

    But certainly I wouldn't say no to 100MP, I want even more. But the need now when I have 50 is not that big so I can wait and see.

    The big news is as you say that it's a CMOS with all those advantages and I think this is marking an end of CCD because few are going to want the 60/80 Dalsa CCDs in a new back when this exists. To work out smoothly this must perform at least decently with the Rodenstock tech wides though, if not the CCDs still may have some life in them, and of course in the second hand market they will live for many more years in any case.

  47. #147
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Santoso View Post
    Does anyone know how much to trade in with IQ180 and DF+ for IQ3 100 and XF kit?

    Thanks
    Dunno about the whole kit but the IQ180 plus 26 grand will get you the new back

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.


  49. #149
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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Wouldn't CMOS live view be a nice addition?
    For 26 grand I can certainly live without it

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    Re: Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post

    32HR images look quite nice...but:

    1. Some noise in the shifted areas. Could be due to lack of CF use, Alpa has not specified. Expected CMOS to handle this better, it cannot be more than a couple of stops off base.
    2. Would like to see larger shifts with more detail in shifted areas....I'm sure we'll get more samples soon.
    3. Vertical blotching in sky areas...or is it just me and my screen?

    43XL - doesn't look too good. Given that out of the 28/35/43/47, the 43 was best behaved, it does not look too good for SK. Hoping the Rodies fair better.

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