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Thread: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

  1. #51
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    2. there are two sliding rails for the rear standard, one is geared, both have locks. after you carefully focus using live view, set the locks, or inadvertently pushing the P button to turn off live view may move the rear standard. (duh!, but it happened to me)
    Been there, done that! (With Phase One CMOS back and the touch screen LV on/off).

    I've learned to lock all of the settings once I've dialed them in (focus & rise/fall mainly). I could also do with it for the tilt and to a lesser degree the swing & rear shift controls on the Actus DB+.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Senior Member DanielDuarte's Avatar
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Love the files out of this camera but HB... For the price tag could I get an LCD screen with some damn resolution? LV focusing is a real pain in the a** . I have to stop way down to see the screen, wide open is a completely white screen even at ISO 100. You just have to trust the camera. I LV focus and I can't confirm 100% it's in focus, it's close, then when I import files they're perfect but in the field damn, shakes the confidence a bit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Love the files out of this camera but HB... For the price tag could I get an LCD screen with some damn resolution? LV focusing is a real pain in the a** . I have to stop way down to see the screen, wide open is a completely white screen even at ISO 100. You just have to trust the camera. I LV focus and I can't confirm 100% it's in focus, it's close, then when I import files they're perfect but in the field damn, shakes the confidence a bit.

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Looks like the below 10K gig is up at least according to B&H, kudos to those of you ( and I ) who snagged one. Gotta say though, some off the so called reviews despite being positive are really odd, more like people pontificating just to hear them selves speak than actual reviews. Hell, I have used the back professionally since the Fall and I still don't feel like I am qualified enough to write a "review".

    But that the Internet photo scene I guess, writing "reviews" are equally as popular as actually using the gear.
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    This is exactly why I skipped the CFV50c and went with my Credo. In my personal tests the live view was absolutely useless as I couldn't focus with it wide opèn, only stopped down past F22 where it's impossible to judge critical focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielDuarte View Post
    Love the files out of this camera but HB... For the price tag could I get an LCD screen with some damn resolution? LV focusing is a real pain in the a** . I have to stop way down to see the screen, wide open is a completely white screen even at ISO 100. You just have to trust the camera. I LV focus and I can't confirm 100% it's in focus, it's close, then when I import files they're perfect but in the field damn, shakes the confidence a bit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Love the files out of this camera but HB... For the price tag could I get an LCD screen with some damn resolution? LV focusing is a real pain in the a** . I have to stop way down to see the screen, wide open is a completely white screen even at ISO 100. You just have to trust the camera. I LV focus and I can't confirm 100% it's in focus, it's close, then when I import files they're perfect but in the field damn, shakes the confidence a bit.

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielDuarte View Post
    Love the files out of this camera but HB... For the price tag could I get an LCD screen with some damn resolution? LV focusing is a real pain in the a** . I have to stop way down to see the screen, wide open is a completely white screen even at ISO 100. You just have to trust the camera. I LV focus and I can't confirm 100% it's in focus, it's close, then when I import files they're perfect but in the field damn, shakes the confidence a bit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Love the files out of this camera but HB... For the price tag could I get an LCD screen with some damn resolution? LV focusing is a real pain in the a** . I have to stop way down to see the screen, wide open is a completely white screen even at ISO 100. You just have to trust the camera. I LV focus and I can't confirm 100% it's in focus, it's close, then when I import files they're perfect but in the field damn, shakes the confidence a bit.
    Daniel,

    The suggestion of a ND Filter is spot on ... Get a large Variable ND ... use it like a director's loupe dial in based on your aperture and ISO ...

    Bob

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    This is exactly why I skipped the CFV50c and went with my Credo. In my personal tests the live view was absolutely useless as I couldn't focus with it wide opèn, only stopped down past F22 where it's impossible to judge critical focus.
    It's annoying for sure, would love to see a firmware update fix it. But I find that when I stop down to F8 and give it a few seconds to refresh the view, it starts to step down to where I can easily hit focus. And lets be real, if an MF lens looks focused in live view at F8, it is indeed focused.

    A polarising or ND filter also helps take care of business right quick as well.

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    For me at the time the idea of having to use an ND on top of a few other compromises with the back were a step to far. File quality was amazing but in practice a full frame CCD back and sliding back worked better for me (admittedly I'm a oddity here.)

    I did however engage Hasselblad and one of ther big name (and very generous) beta testers in a discussion about the live view performace and why it behaves this way when it doesn't in the competitive Leaf / Phase products. I was told it's because the refresh rate on the 50c is only approximately 12 frams per second, where the competition does abour 30 frames per second. I was also told by the beta tester–and this was about a year ago now!–that he had installed a beta firmware to up the frame rate and it was stable. I.e. a release was imminent. I nearly bought the 50c on this promise, but in the end decided I really wanted a larger chip and quite enjoyed the sliding back in practice.

    Anyway, different strokes for different folkes. I think the 50c is a great product and would have been happy with it, especially on my Techno which I think is a dream tech cam for a CMOS back. I hope the firmware update hits soon!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    It's annoying for sure, would love to see a firmware update fix it. But I find that when I stop down to F8 and give it a few seconds to refresh the view, it starts to step down to where I can easily hit focus. And lets be real, if an MF lens looks focused in live view at F8, it is indeed focused.

    A polarising or ND filter also helps take care of business right quick as well.

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    Senior Member DanielDuarte's Avatar
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Personally, I am very much torn.

    The photographer in me says enjoy the back, make good work, enjoy the fruits of the MF DB.

    Then there is a pitting pain in my heart. The reality of being an unemployed MFA graduate student and realizing my camera is clearly the most valuable commodity in my life, outside of a vehicle.

    I'm just torn because a part of me realizes "I bit off more than I could chew" financially, not in a debt sense because I paid cash for this set up, but more in the sense of what that cash value would represent in my everyday life.

    I don't think I'm off base when I say I get the sense the MF DB world is for commercially successful photographers and hobbyists with high incomes, of which I am neither. Just one of those self doubting nights

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Daniel,

    Since you you own the camera I'd recommend shooting the butt off of it as if you'd stolen it. Cameras don't make art but they do make the experience pleasurable and rewarding. Trading out of your current gear would cost you money so why do it for something that at best matches what you have or more likely won't be as able?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Daniel,

    Sometimes the pleasure of an object is in its distance and the desire it evokes.

    The depreciation in dollar values of a digital camera is immediate ... the day you buy
    it you lose a significant amount and then the decline is much less ... until the manufacturer
    cuts your legs off by discounting the new ones by 40% to churn the market.

    Since you have paid for the initial depreciation ... Graham is correct ... use it to the full measure
    and then some as it will not go down in value much with that use as long as it is not abused and
    shows abnormal wear. If another camera would bring your work more value then that is quite
    another matter.

    The "reality of an unemployed MFA student " is that your employment is the MFA and you have a
    tool to potentially make that something it would not have been without the MF DB. Maximize its
    utility in this situation ... lemonade from limes ... or something like that.

    Bob
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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Daniel,

    My 2 cents - If you're losing sleep over it, get rid of it now. If you'd lose sleep without it, follow Graham's advice and shoot it 24/7.

    I have spent way too much on a few things. One (the most expensive by far) I've never regretted and feel fortunate that I even had the opportunity to acquire it. Another (yes, camera equipment) I feel daily guilt over, but as it has lost 95% of its value I don't think there's anything useful I can do about it. I should sell it, take the loss, and do something enjoyable with the proceeds.

    So it depends.

    Good luck! And whatever you have, shoot it a lot.

    Matt
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    "My 2 cents - If you're losing sleep over it, get rid of it now."
    *****
    I agree. I don't think that you will see much , if any financial loss if you sell now.

    Steve

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    Senior Member DanielDuarte's Avatar
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Daniel,

    My 2 cents - If you're losing sleep over it, get rid of it now. If you'd lose sleep without it, follow Graham's advice and shoot it 24/7.

    I have spent way too much on a few things. One (the most expensive by far) I've never regretted and feel fortunate that I even had the opportunity to acquire it. Another (yes, camera equipment) I feel daily guilt over, but as it has lost 95% of its value I don't think there's anything useful I can do about it. I should sell it, take the loss, and do something enjoyable with the proceeds.

    So it depends.

    Good luck! And whatever you have, shoot it a lot.

    Matt
    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Daniel,

    Sometimes the pleasure of an object is in its distance and the desire it evokes.

    The depreciation in dollar values of a digital camera is immediate ... the day you buy
    it you lose a significant amount and then the decline is much less ... until the manufacturer
    cuts your legs off by discounting the new ones by 40% to churn the market.

    Since you have paid for the initial depreciation ... Graham is correct ... use it to the full measure
    and then some as it will not go down in value much with that use as long as it is not abused and
    shows abnormal wear. If another camera would bring your work more value then that is quite
    another matter.

    The "reality of an unemployed MFA student " is that your employment is the MFA and you have a
    tool to potentially make that something it would not have been without the MF DB. Maximize its
    utility in this situation ... lemonade from limes ... or something like that.

    Bob
    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Daniel,

    Since you you own the camera I'd recommend shooting the butt off of it as if you'd stolen it. Cameras don't make art but they do make the experience pleasurable and rewarding. Trading out of your current gear would cost you money so why do it for something that at best matches what you have or more likely won't be as able?

    From a practical perspective it's made me realize a lot about my work, my workflow, and realistic output. I still prefer BW large format film (nothing beats an 8x10 contact print) but color film is all but dead to me. I suppose the shock is just the upfront financial reality I put myself through, as opposed to spending the same amount on sheet film over time.

    The whole process of me going digital was important for my work, not that it made me "better" but it allowed me to push concepts farther, faster, and so my output now is at a wonderful level. The MF DB bug bit me with print sizes, of which I am regularly making 40x60 prints without blinking an eye now.

    Thanks for your words of advice and wisdom, sometimes I forget where I am age wise, my career, etc etc etc and what it all means. I can't shake that frugal working class upbringing; my parents would fall to the floor if they knew what I dropped on the CFV-50C.
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielDuarte View Post
    From a practical perspective it's made me realize a lot about my work, my workflow, and realistic output. I still prefer BW large format film (nothing beats an 8x10 contact print) but color film is all but dead to me. I suppose the shock is just the upfront financial reality I put myself through, as opposed to spending the same amount on sheet film over time.

    The whole process of me going digital was important for my work, not that it made me "better" but it allowed me to push concepts farther, faster, and so my output now is at a wonderful level. The MF DB bug bit me with print sizes, of which I am regularly making 40x60 prints without blinking an eye now.

    Thanks for your words of advice and wisdom, sometimes I forget where I am age wise, my career, etc etc etc and what it all means. I can't shake that frugal working class upbringing; my parents would fall to the floor if they knew what I dropped on the CFV-50C.
    We've all struggled with purchases - did we need it? Was it more important than that other thing we really need? How to explain (or not) to our partner/family/etc.?

    Times have changed - now the cost of improving a MF setup is much much higher than it used to be. Back in the past, one could look at a Hassy V or a Rollei: there were always used ones in the pipeline, affordable for a student who could scrape up some money. And the results were special.

    Today the cost of entry to MF (digital) is much higher than the old used gear we all used to have. Yes, there are some modestly priced backs. So instead you went a bit up the ladder and got the CF50V....its price is not as bad as some of the really expensive stuff. If it helps your work, profoundly so, then its money well spent. If its just "well, I liked this, tomorrow I'll like something else", then a rethink might well be in order.

    I keep seeing all this stuff as today's version of shooting 4x5 or LF: the cost profile may be different (much more $$ needed upfront), but the level of diligence and rigor is about the same, and the results are comparable, both having a special quality. Film would be cheaper (better bang for the buck) but has a huge time/hassle component. If you do take advantage of the time savings inherent with using a digital back, and apply that to doing better work, then its clearly a good thing.

    Hope this helps.
    www.gigi-photos.com
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    Senior Member DanielDuarte's Avatar
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    We've all struggled with purchases - did we need it? Was it more important than that other thing we really need? How to explain (or not) to our partner/family/etc.?

    Times have changed - now the cost of improving a MF setup is much much higher than it used to be. Back in the past, one could look at a Hassy V or a Rollei: there were always used ones in the pipeline, affordable for a student who could scrape up some money. And the results were special.

    Today the cost of entry to MF (digital) is much higher than the old used gear we all used to have. Yes, there are some modestly priced backs. So instead you went a bit up the ladder and got the CF50V....its price is not as bad as some of the really expensive stuff. If it helps your work, profoundly so, then its money well spent. If its just "well, I liked this, tomorrow I'll like something else", then a rethink might well be in order.

    I keep seeing all this stuff as today's version of shooting 4x5 or LF: the cost profile may be different (much more $$ needed upfront), but the level of diligence and rigor is about the same, and the results are comparable, both having a special quality. Film would be cheaper (better bang for the buck) but has a huge time/hassle component. If you do take advantage of the time savings inherent with using a digital back, and apply that to doing better work, then its clearly a good thing.

    Hope this helps.
    I completely agree regarding the rigor.

    Many of my colleagues have noted that the digital images carry the same feeling as my previous large format work, in terms of how they are composed and how the tool is used. That I appreciated.

    I just started to sweat the cash as my wife and I want to trade in a vehicle and purchase a Ford Transit Connect XLT, convert the rear into a pretty bare bones camper *a bed really* and travel this summer since we both teach. I just started to look at my office and say wow, that Ford would be paid for in cash if I just moved some of that gear and stuck with one camera. But realistically, we all know we need different tools for different jobs.

    I don't think I'll ever get that panic out of the back of my head, until perhaps my wife and I are better suited financially speaking.

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    Looks like the below 10K gig is up at least according to B&H, kudos to those of you ( and I ) who snagged one. Gotta say though, some off the so called reviews despite being positive are really odd, more like people pontificating just to hear them selves speak than actual reviews. Hell, I have used the back professionally since the Fall and I still don't feel like I am qualified enough to write a "review".

    But that the Internet photo scene I guess, writing "reviews" are equally as popular as actually using the gear.
    FWIW, now listed as "In Stock" and shipping at $9995 at B&H.

    Steve

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    It does not affect my decision in anyway (which is based on lack of $$$), but does anyone know or can read tea leaves to say how well the CFV-50C is selling? My *impression* is that it is selling well, but in reality?

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    It does not affect my decision in anyway (which is based on lack of $$$), but does anyone know or can read tea leaves to say how well the CFV-50C is selling? My *impression* is that it is selling well, but in reality?
    My guess is that they are selling well at $9995. Whatever the supply was, was sold out by early Dec. After 2+ months, now back in stock, again at $9995. The fact that production continues at reduced price suggests that sales are good and HB is making a profit(?).

    Steve

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Phase should sell the IQ150 at that price (even though it is a better back than the Hassy). They would have sold a bunch already and most likely gotten a lot of people into their system in the process (even though they sell it in other mounts which is part of what makes the back attractive to a large customer base)
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    Phase should sell the IQ150 at that price (even though it is a better back than the Hassy). They would have sold a bunch already and most likely gotten a lot of people into their system in the process (even though they sell it in other mounts which is part of what makes the back attractive to a large customer base)
    yep the should, but as long people buy at high prices, there is no reason for them to lower the price.

    i would immediately buy an iq150 or even iq250 if the price would be in the 10k-15k range

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    yep the should, but as long people buy at high prices, there is no reason for them to lower the price.

    i would immediately buy an iq150 or even iq250 if the price would be in the 10k-15k range
    Indeed. I would immediately buy a Ferrari F458 if the price would be in the $90-120k range too ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    yep the should, but as long people buy at high prices, there is no reason for them to lower the price.

    i would immediately buy an iq150 or even iq250 if the price would be in the 10k-15k range
    I think if you look into it, the total sales numbers for the IQ150 at least in the US are very low. No way to tell world wide. It's just too close to the 250 and now 350 in price.

    One way to tell, Adobe took almost 1 year to add the support for the IQ150 to LR. I was involved in getting the 150 added to LR camera raw and had tried since June of last year. I realize that Adobe is not Phase One, but you can also use which cameras are added and how fast they are added to LR camera raw as a bell weather of numbers sold in the world. Numbers sold equals demand to get specific cameras into camera raw. The IQ150 just did not cross over to the masses like it could have. Not a thing wrong with it, but price point and the market perception of where that price point should be.

    Paul C

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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Just an FYI. I was informed the Hasselblad 100 mp will be announced "soon". I wasn't informed if a separate back will be part of the lineup or not.
    Last edited by JohnBrew; 4th March 2016 at 06:50.
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    Re: CFV-50C "promotion" continues

    Makes sense, as Phase just announced H support for the 100MP back.

    Sadly to me it seems possible that attention has been given priority to getting out the H back version for WPPI, instead of completing orders that date back to early January for the M back version.

    Paul C

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