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Thread: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

  1. #1
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    Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    This looks like a very decent offer, and within 5K of the Hassy. Credo 50 + XF for 20K. If I was in the market, I'd gladly pay the 5K for the difference in the XF body and C1. This is refreshing.

    https://digitaltransitions.com/speci...35d4-160550193

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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Very nice.

    Seems, that even P1 is not immune to price pressure

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    This looks like a very decent offer, and within 5K of the Hassy. Credo 50 + XF for 20K. If I was in the market, I'd gladly pay the 5K for the difference in the XF body and C1. This is refreshing.

    https://digitaltransitions.com/speci...35d4-160550193
    Jag,
    The $5k price delta is not that big of a spread because with this Credo 50/XF Bundle you are investing in a platform that was just released (XF) about 7 months ago and is built for the future. Already Phase One has released 2 firmware updates that have added features .

    Purchasing an H5D50c you are spending money on a camera platform that was released in 2002 and a digital back that is showing its age with its architecture. So if Hasselblad does announce something new in the future the cost to upgrade to their latest will definitely cost more then the price difference between their current offerings and Team Phase One's. Historically Hasselblad has not cared about their customers investments by continuing to devalue their systems and not offer upgrade paths within their own product family.

    L
    Last edited by lance_schad; 4th March 2016 at 16:06.
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Or you are buying a back at a cut price that is fully capable but purposefully crippled to distinguish it as a cheaper alternative to the IQ backs.

    While the XF is brand new for the future, Phase Ones last camera came from the 1980's so criticising one designed in 2002 is rich. Who knows what the future holds for Hasselblads but if its a CMOS back with the image review and live view functions of the IQ backs coupled with a new mirrorless camera body, the XF will again seem like it was designed in the 1980's like all those before.

    Lets hope both companies flurish and offer great new products and lets not get drawn into a needlessly bias discussion as both companies makes some great products.
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    With all due respect, this just sounds like a maketing sales pitch and lacks any form of objectivity.


    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Jag,
    The $5k price delta is not that big of a spread because with this Credo 50/XF Bundle you are investing in a platform that was just released (XF) about 7 months ago and is built for the future. Already Phase One has released 2 firmware updates that have added features .

    Purchasing the an H5D50c you are spending money on a camera platform that was released in 2002 and a digital back that is showing its age with its architecture. So if Hasselblad does announce something new in the future the cost to upgrade to the latest will definitely cost more then the price difference between their current offerings and Team Phase One's. Historically Hasselblad has not cared about their customers investments by continuing to devalue their systems and not offer upgrade paths within their own product family.

    L
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    Senior Member stngoldberg's Avatar
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Jag,
    The $5k price delta is not that big of a spread because with this Credo 50/XF Bundle you are investing in a platform that was just released (XF) about 7 months ago and is built for the future. Already Phase One has released 2 firmware updates that have added features .

    Purchasing the an H5D50c you are spending money on a camera platform that was released in 2002 and a digital back that is showing its age with its architecture. So if Hasselblad does announce something new in the future the cost to upgrade to the latest will definitely cost more then the price difference between their current offerings and Team Phase One's. Historically Hasselblad has not cared about their customers investments by continuing to devalue their systems and not offer upgrade paths within their own product family.

    L
    Lance
    With all due respect, the above is not factual!
    Hasselblad offered me a very generous trade in when I upgraded last year, and I am being led to believe that the 100 megapixel Sony chip will be attached to a new and improved Hasselblad Digital back
    On another note, I probably am going to continue with my H5D50 in the future; as my main use for this back is with my Arca Swiss rm3di which seems to have more tolerance for shift with the CCD chip.

    Stanley

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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Just to point out, this is back + body + prism only - no lens !
    that's another $4000+ right there needed, if you want one of the new generation lenses.

    True you can buy an older generation Mamiya lens, for much less (or much, much less for really older ones!) but clarifying that you need to spend more for an actual working camera!

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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    I missed that issue (no lens included) as a lens is shown in the shot by Phase.

    The good news there is the 80mm LS non blue label, is very often for sale here (for sale forum) and eBay. But as you point out, to make the kit work, you will need a lens. There always seems to be a good supply of the 80mm LS, They run anywhere between $850.00 and up to $1,350.00 for example.

    After using the XF now for a few months, for sure consider the LS over the non-LS versions as the XF does allow some excellent improvements with the LS lenses, like being able to only use the LS shutter in LiveView (really only applies to the CMOS backs), the vibration reduction mode, which when the XF is in LS priority fires the LS shutter after the vibration has subsided. (If I finally understand this process, the mirror goes, up, focal opens, then after the seismograph determines no vibration, the LS fires, then the focal and mirror close). But being able to just fire the LS in Liveview is great feature. (up to exposures of 1"), after which, you are dependent on the focal.

    Paul C

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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Lance,

    I feel I need to step in and point out the "non truths" in your marketing promo piece-

    First, for $19,100.00 in the US you can purchase an H5D-50c wifi w/80mm lens.
    For the 1K less than you would spent on the Credo 50 XF NO LENS kit, you also get the following:
    - built in wifi control
    - an optional wired cable release (a simple accessory that the XF is still lacking after almost a year)
    - True Focus II
    - A Lens!

    To claim that the H5D-50c wifi is spending money on a platform that was released in 2002 is kind of funny-
    It's like saying "buying a Canon 5DSR is like buying a camera platform that was released in 2005, after all it's based on the original 5D!

    The H5D is the 6th generation H body! (H1,H2,H3,H3II,H4,H5) and we still support and offer firmware updates on all of these models, the latest H1 fiirmware is from April of 2015.

    As far as Hasselblad "caring" about their customers investments; Lance-

    In addition to the H5D platform, we offer the H5x for legacy users- it supports All Hasselblad H5D, ixpress, CF and CFH digital backs. 3rd party backs that were compatible with the H1/H2 cameras (including "team Phase One db units like the P, P+ series- something that your new XF does not even do)
    We offer the CF Lens adapter to let you move to the H platform and use most of your legacy V series lenses on the H platform
    We offer the CFV-50c DB for those legacy users that prefer to stick with the Classic V system.

    Your last point- Upgrades
    Hasselblad has traditionally offered and upgrade/trade up path for both owners of Hasselblad branded digital backs as well as 3rd party backs.
    With the recent price reductions on the H5D-50c wifi, the trade in/upgrade option does not make sense and is not offered at this price point.
    I would expect that the upgrade/trade in path on future products will come back as those are released.

    One thing of note, when you do and upgrade via Hasselblad, you always get a new Digital Back, Camera Body & Viewfinder even if you are just trading in an old 3rd party db only. If I am correct, team "Phase One" upgrades have always been digital back only, keeping your old tired body to use with your new back.

    Just wanted to clear the air

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Jag,
    The $5k price delta is not that big of a spread because with this Credo 50/XF Bundle you are investing in a platform that was just released (XF) about 7 months ago and is built for the future. Already Phase One has released 2 firmware updates that have added features .

    Purchasing an H5D50c you are spending money on a camera platform that was released in 2002 and a digital back that is showing its age with its architecture. So if Hasselblad does announce something new in the future the cost to upgrade to their latest will definitely cost more then the price difference between their current offerings and Team Phase One's. Historically Hasselblad has not cared about their customers investments by continuing to devalue their systems and not offer upgrade paths within their own product family.

    L
    Last edited by SteveG; 4th March 2016 at 22:25.
    Steve Goldsmith
    Hasselblad Bron, Inc. | Regional Sales Manager | Central & Mid-Atlantic Regions
    mobile 847-722-3397 [email protected]
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I missed that issue (no lens included) as a lens is shown in the shot by Phase.

    The good news there is the 80mm LS non blue label, is very often for sale here (for sale forum) and eBay. But as you point out, to make the kit work, you will need a lens. There always seems to be a good supply of the 80mm LS, They run anywhere between $850.00 and up to $1,350.00 for example.

    After using the XF now for a few months, for sure consider the LS over the non-LS versions as the XF does allow some excellent improvements with the LS lenses, like being able to only use the LS shutter in LiveView (really only applies to the CMOS backs), the vibration reduction mode, which when the XF is in LS priority fires the LS shutter after the vibration has subsided. (If I finally understand this process, the mirror goes, up, focal opens, then after the seismograph determines no vibration, the LS fires, then the focal and mirror close). But being able to just fire the LS in Liveview is great feature. (up to exposures of 1"), after which, you are dependent on the focal.

    Paul C
    Some good info Paul, and as someone who owns an XF body but has never used it, (I'm always on Alpa, my XF sits here with under 100 shots on it) it was intersting to read all the clever firmware development of it to prevent shutter vibration.

    2 quick points: It's weird all this technology -mirror up, focal plane locked, seismograph - to get back to where a leaf shutter alone releases - when this is what we have on copal lens'd Tech cameras already, and had on LF film cameras for eternity!! Kind of hilarious the routine you have to go through to get back to where we were in the old days.

    Secondly, just to say the old Mamiya D lenses are really excellent. I truly don't think you'll see any difference to the Schneider ones. (Mamiya made seriously great lenses) With mirror lock up, its just the FP shutter working, and very little vibration there already. LS lenses are a nice bonus, but a lot of us don't really need or use that.
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    2 quick points: It's weird all this technology -mirror up, focal plane locked, seismograph - to get back to where a leaf shutter alone releases - when this is what we have on copal lens'd Tech cameras already, and had on LF film cameras for eternity!! Kind of hilarious the routine you have to go through to get back to where we were in the old days.
    Or even the tech which has been available on H cameras since the H1: on H cameras, once the mirror is raised, the camera behaves essentially like a tech cam: you can change aperture, speed, even focus for a series of images and just lower the mirror when you are finished and want to use the finder again.

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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    On an H you can even program a very slight delay–like a fraction of a second–for the shutter to fire after the mirror is up, right?

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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    On an H you can even program a very slight delay–like a fraction of a second–for the shutter to fire after the mirror is up, right?

    I found this setting in the Hasselblad H5D user manual:

    Extra Mirror Delay
    None • 25 ms • 50 ms • 100 ms • 200 ms
    Extends the delay period between the mirror being raised and the opening of the lens shutter thereby reducing the negative effect of vibration on longer exposure times.

    --Steve.

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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Not bad for a camera system first introduced in 2002...
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Jag,
    The $5k price delta is not that big of a spread because with this Credo 50/XF Bundle you are investing in a platform that was just released (XF) about 7 months ago and is built for the future. Already Phase One has released 2 firmware updates that have added features .

    Purchasing an H5D50c you are spending money on a camera platform that was released in 2002 and a digital back that is showing its age with its architecture. So if Hasselblad does announce something new in the future the cost to upgrade to their latest will definitely cost more then the price difference between their current offerings and Team Phase One's. Historically Hasselblad has not cared about their customers investments by continuing to devalue their systems and not offer upgrade paths within their own product family.

    L
    About as factual as most statements made during the republican debate the other day...
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    Re: Phase pricing moving in the right direction!

    thriller_popcorn.gif

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