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Thread: MF direction

  1. #51
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    Re: MF direction

    Well in my country it is expected. They will not talk infront of you but they will talk behind you. Some of them are not knowledgeable about technical stuff and will ask stupid questions like is it big enough for billboard, etc. Agency already have perception MDF is better so they expect that. All the big name in the industry also use MDF, to make it worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    "The camera choice is also based on your work. As a commercial photographer, the MDF is a must. Agency know
    what camera we use!! They will question you when you use 35mm ( it happened a lot)"

    Never happened to me, a 100mb tiff is more than enough for print (not printing, there is a difference!) as long as the art director likes what they see on screen it's good enough. Lenses make a huge difference, nobody want to see kit-zoom mush and chromatic abhorrations.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Lars, I mean no disrespect but if your point was not to come across as a rant against MF then I feel you may have failed!

    Look, there are tools for everyone, if there is really no competitive advantage then the businesses will go bust, it's as simple as that. Whilst there are people who want to buy their kit they will stay in business. There are so many types of photography and photographer that it is impossible to generalise, what is no advantage for you can be a huge advantage for someone else and rightly so!

    I just received an email from a client who is very excited about his display stand and sent me a quick iphone snap, I hope people don't object to me sharing it..



    I shot this with the IQ260 on a Cambo, there is absolutely nothing left wanting in this file, it has printed beautifully at 6m wide and more than that, the client loves it. Could it have been taken with another camera? Of course, anything from a box brownie to a Cap Cam depending on what I wanted from the final shot and the budget, as it is, the absolute best camera for the job was the camera I had, despite having no live view, no viewfinder even, no eye focusing af, I didn't even have a manual for the back, I just set aperture and shutter speed and took the shot.

    My point is that whilst entirely valid in your limited time with the cameras on your 4 day trip, mf is capable of producing excellent work, as are pretty much all cameras if used to their strengths.


    Mat
    The competitive advantage is vanishing slowly with VR. Photography will have an advantage in Art and art only but on professional assignments you can start the countdown of the death of "commercial photography". I'm very serious as a coder I know what can be done with virtual reality and I'm able to lure everybody with proper VR and shaded work. Just wait the time phones and tablets will have more computing power, 5 to 8 years.

    I think Lytro in on something. But even today you can make a rough scan of an environment and then compute it into a 3D world. It is an another job and need another skills yes. But this is where we are going, sooner or later.

    Have a look at my "basic" virtual gallery: https://www.behance.net/gallery/32387485/CRYO

    I say basic because I crafted basic shaders but advanced shaders are absolutely realistic. So much that it is almost impossible to differentiate real and virtual. I study this since 1999 and this is where we go.

    And when I say Art only... damn I scare myself sometime into VR because I can output everything I want, every atmospheric effect, sun colour, mood ...
    On such forum it is easy to mimic every kind of format and environment with VR, clouds, vegetation, seasons, rocks, water, sky... (I do not do it but it is possible).









    I would go further saying that the day of photography devices are counted.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  3. #53
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    The competitive advantage is vanishing slowly with VR. Photography will have an advantage in Art and art only but on professional assignments you can start the countdown of the death of "commercial photography". I'm very serious as a coder I know what can be done with virtual reality and I'm able to lure everybody with proper VR and shaded work. Just wait the time phones and tablets will have more computing power, 5 to 8 years.
    Certainly, VR will be a revolution. But don't count photography dead yet. What the public want is to see people expressing emotions, feelings. VR cannot do that as well as real humans. Allow me to demonstrate with some random art:



    Carol Jerrems - "Vale Street"


    Sally Mann - "Candy Cigarette"
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  4. #54
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Photography's days are certainly numbered.

    Just as people painting or drawing disappeared once those obsolete practices were replaced by photography.
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  5. #55
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Photography will not die any-time soon, for sure. But... emotions can be mimicked too, sorry. VR make everything possible. It sound like a blasphemy even into my ears because I'm portraitist but the future will be VR at ALL level (for a time). Then ppl will make a revolution and resurrect photo gear to make real photos after some years of deep depression

    All things related to visual commerce will be VR orientated. I even VRised myself and I'm coding facial emotions... (this is done since 2003).





    and so on. Scary ? Hell yes. MFDB should be the least of your problems. You will disappear as fast as not converted film shooters.

    Visual support for brands, individuals or industry is changing. The work about visual imagery is changing EXTREMELY fast. If you are young I can only council you to learn code, shaders and modelling. The last Lytro camera is kind of revolutionary, more than you can imagine. It is the first nail in the coffin. This camera (or maybe a tinier model in the future) is able to 3D scan and isolate every thing. Clients will like it. I can't explicate it here because it is very technical and long. Sad but factual.

    Ho and printing days are counted too, probably more than photo gear days.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  6. #56
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Photography will not die any-time soon, for sure. But... emotions can be mimicked too, sorry.
    I know that (facial) emotions can be mimicked. The difficulty is to describe them and we are not there yet, VR or not.

    All things related to visual commerce will be VR orientated.
    That for sure.

    You will disappear as fast as not converted film shooters.
    There are still people shooting film and, as stephengilbert noted, people drawing and painting.

    Visual support for brands, individuals or industry is changing. The work about visual imagery is changing EXTREMELY fast. If you are young I can only council you to learn code, shaders and modelling. The last Lytro camera is kind of revolutionary, more than you can imagine.
    Don't assume me or other people in this thread cannot imagine things...

  7. #57
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post

    ... imagine things...
    That is the point of VR Not here for conflict, only to point something more important, a kind of danger somehow for commercial shooters out there. That's all.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  8. #58
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    That is the point of VR Not here for conflict, only to point something more important, a kind of danger somehow for commercial shooters out there. That's all.
    Indeed: between video and VR, the days of commercial photoshooters are numbered. We agree on that.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    Indeed: between video and VR, the days of commercial photoshooters are numbered. We agree on that.

    The days of everything are numbered.

    True, some things sooner than later.

    But commercial photography as we know it has changed and morphed always, and the future will be more dramatic and more rapid in that respect, that much is obvious, like so many other industries.

    Commercial industries are more susceptible to those changes as other related segments drive the technology and production. Non-commercial 8x10 film shooters maybe not so much.



    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  10. #60
    Senior Member Dave Gallagher's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Good morning everyone,

    I would have responded earlier but my wife and I are on a much needed vacation celebrating our 10th anniversary this weekend. She tries to get me away once a year from the stress of owning a business, but alas, it keeps pulling you back in regardless of how you try to get away.

    I am disturbed by this thread. And it’s not about the MF digital vs. DSLR commentary as those discussions have been going on for almost 20 years now. And I am certain that they will be going on for years and years to come. I am disturbed by how misleading and inaccurate the post is.

    Since Mr. Vinberg felt the need to “share (his) experience and opinions based on those experience”, I feel that it is only fair that I am able to share mine as well.

    * Regarding The Carmel “Anti-Workshop”

    https://captureintegration.com/ken-d...workshop-2016/

    Lets discuss the event. This is not a workshop, as the title perfectly states. Click on the link and read the description. This is a few days where good friends and clients get together to play with the latest photographic gear. We go to beautiful locations, share some drinks and food, share our experiences with one another, and just enjoy the time away from the stresses of our normal lives. The ridiculously small fee, $349, doesn’t even come close to covering the expenses of the event. It is just a placeholder to assure that the spots that are filled are not wasted by attendees not showing up.

    The first day of the event is an equipment day. All of the equipment is set up in a location where attendees can come and play and learn about the gear. Tech cameras, MF bodies, and view cameras are on tripods waiting to be touched and tested. You can come learn how to use the gear and sign it out, at no cost to you besides the small attendance fee. This time is set aside to get familiar with the gear that you will shoot on location with very knowledgable people were ready to answer any questions that you may have.

    During this day, and for the remainder of the trip, 4 Phase One Certified Technicians are there to answer any questions that you may have. Yes, 2 professionals from Phase One and 2 from Capture Integration are at your disposal for 4 days. Beyond this, the attendees and the hosts, Don Libby and Ken Doo, are some of the most gracious people that I have ever met in my life. The amount of “sharing” of both information and experience that goes on at these events is incredible. I will go beyond that and say that it is actually heart warming to see and it makes you want to come back year after year due to the giving and talented people that you meet for these 4 days.








    * Regarding Digital Capture Equipment

    I am a photographer. I have a BS degree in Imaging Technology from RIT. To pick up any camera that is new and start learning its nuances is not logical even to someone with a strong background. Buttons are in strange places. Menus have to be read and reread to understand them. Time needs to be spent understanding this new piece of electronic equipment…. even if you are a semi-intelligent individual. : )

    If some of you didn’t know, I also distribute Leica and love the products. I always bring an M with me even when shooting medium format. I picked up our new Leica SL two months ago and did not like it. It was hard to get comfortable with the video feed focusing rather than my beloved rangefinder. The menus were longer and I got stuck on a few features that did not work “like I thought they should.”

    Why am I stating this? Because I didn’t blame the camera. I didn’t go online to a public forum and call it names. I wasn’t condescending by making exaggerated misleading remarks implying that it couldn’t have been my fault and instead that ALL Leica’s must be “crap”. My reaction instead? Take it with me on my “vacation” and give it another try. And just spending 4 hours with it yesterday, I see all sorts of features that I now really like (along with a 90-280mm zoom that is pretty damn sweet). There are some amazing minds at Leica and I by no means think that they make inferior products because I didn’t feel comfortable with the product the first time I picked it up.



    * Regarding Lars Vinberg

    I was called out by name personally. My company, the treatment of my clients, and our ethics were disparaged. I apologize to anyone for the drama here. It’s not something that I like to be a part of whatsoever. However, it’s not fair to have the mud slung and not stand up for yourself. So here is my rebuttal

    1) There was a day of training on the gear before the workshop started. There were incredibly talented people to help with any questions that he might have had. Computer workstations were set up so we could download documents and Capture One to jump drives and hand them out to anyone who needed them. Unfortunately, this great opportunity was missed.

    2) Mr. Vinberg neglected to point out that he was using the Phase One on a Technical camera for the first time. Who would pick up an 8x10 view camera and think that they can learn it in an hour? Using a digital back on a view camera or tech camera is not like “spraying” with a Nikon. This is not recommend by us or anyone in the industry. With this said, Mr. Vinberg also neglected to point out that our technician, Cam Williams, helped him set up the tech camera system and was right by his side to answer any questions from the beginning. In fact, here is a picture of the first actual shooting location on the first day where Cam is setting the equipment up for Lars while Lars is NOT paying attention. Another opportunity missed and proof that his statements were misleading at best.






    3) "Yeah CCDs do that sometimes when overloaded with light, just power it off for a few minutes.". This statement is false and outright nonsensical. But let’s chalk this one up to an English translation and someone not understanding what is being said. I want to believe this at least. Listening to the problems as stated by Mr. Vinberg, my analysis was that the Phase One IQ3 60mp was left in the direct sun and the back overheated. Leaving any black metal electronics in the direct sun to bake is a bad idea. Anyone lose an iPhone this way? My daughter did and she was not happy about it. : ) I can actually see where this can be misconstrued. But if you are confused, then don't post a direct quote that is not correct.

    4) Laughing at a customer. My wife and my employees often ask me why I have so much patience when it comes to clients as compared to them. And admittedly, it’s not even close. I truly need to do better by both my wife and my employees, but I am working on it. I work very hard to have the utmost respect and patience for both potential and current clients. If I had known that Mr. Vinberg was so “sh#% scared” to talk to me that he was thinking about “quitting his job and moving to a foreign country” I would not have laughed at his stressful situation. Secondly, the reason why I laughed is that Lars thought he had damaged the camera by taking the protective rear cap off the sensor and exposing it to daylight. I found this funny and yes I laughed. I want to state that Lars laughed along with me at this moment and I didn’t see any sign of an issue. But importantly, I am not above reproach. I make mistakes. And if I would have known that this would have caused any form of distress then I would have quickly apologized. Furthermore, Mr. Vinberg and I have shared multiple e-mails since the event and this was never brought up. This makes no sense to me.

    If I have done anything in any manner to upset someone, I implore them to speak to me directly so they can personally understand the man that I am and the company that I run. You will then have a strong perspective change at judging me and my character. However, not telling me personally how you feel when given multiple chances, then going online to a forum, and disparaging me publicly makes me question everything that you share about any subject and this post. Trust is lost.

    Sorry, but this is me “sharing my experiences and opinions”.

    Dave Gallagher
    CEO
    Capture Integration
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  11. #61
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Dave,

    Thanks for making this clear! I always had the highest regard for Capture Integration.

    On the other hand Lars obviously had a negative experience. I have some experience with a Minolta Dimage 7i overheating in sunny Budapest back in 2004, so I have seen that problem.

    I can fully understand that this was not a commercial workshop, perhaps it could be seen as a marketing exercise. It seems that Lars get away from that workshop with a negative experience, a great pity for all involved.

    I have a P45+ I bought privately and downloaded the manuals from the net. The back works fine and delivers great images. It performs essentially according to specifications.

    I don't see any MFD magic with the P45+, but I have never been a believer in any magic. The P45+ delivers according to spec, not less but also not more.

    The experience I have with the P45+ is that it is a bit tuned to protect highlights by not exposing fully ETTR when the histogram indicates near clipping, but well exposed images have decent shadow details. I would think that Lars was quite a bit from fully ETTR exposure, if so, lifting shadow detail may be a negative experience.

    We need to know our imaging systems if we want to achieve optimal quality and that takes some learning.

    The image below was my first real image with the P45+, it is one of my all times favourites. It was a great surprise I got it because thought I had a sync cable issue. I saw that sailboat coming and put up tripod, packed up camera from the bag and got a shot. Before that shoot I just had some testing done…


    The info I have seen from CI has always been good. Good info without the hype, I always appreciated it… So Lars writing left me with some disturbance of mind, thanks for sharing your view on the issue.

    Kind regards
    Erik




    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post
    Good morning everyone,

    I would have responded earlier but my wife and I are on a much needed vacation celebrating our 10th anniversary this weekend. She tries to get me away once a year from the stress of owning a business, but alas, it keeps pulling you back in regardless of how you try to get away.

    I am disturbed by this thread. And it’s not about the MF digital vs. DSLR commentary as those discussions have been going on for almost 20 years now. And I am certain that they will be going on for years and years to come. I am disturbed by how misleading and inaccurate the post is.

    Since Mr. Vinberg felt the need to “share (his) experience and opinions based on those experience”, I feel that it is only fair that I am able to share mine as well.

    * Regarding The Carmel “Anti-Workshop”

    ...
    Dave Gallagher
    CEO
    Capture Integration
    Last edited by ErikKaffehr; 16th April 2016 at 12:11.

  12. #62
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    Re: MF direction

    For christ sake erik, you don't need to overload your already typically long winded responses by quoting a post in it's entirety
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  13. #63
    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Maybe not central to the topic, but in Death Valley I yanked a tripod leg sending Dave's Cambo/IQ160/SK43 face down into the dirt AT HIS FEET and he did not kill me. I remain grateful to this day. Thank you, Dave.

    Best,

    Matt
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  14. #64
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    Re: MF direction

    I've found the comment by Mr Lars very disturbing and misleading. In the past, this comment would be warned or banned by the moderators as it is not a fair comment and causes damages to people. I am not surprised as GetDPI nowadays has changed. It's not as friendly/informative as before. It's getting closer and closer to LUL, better or worse. Just only an opinion from a long-time and royal member.
    He was very biased. I used 4x5 before DSLR and MFD. If I have to start using the 4x5 again, it will take me a long time to get used to it, certainly it's not in few weeks. It also took me a long times (months) until I started to feel comfortable with the tech camera +CCD back. You have to master before you can appreciate it.
    I've been a customer of CI since the IQ180 back first came out and cannot think any higher of this company.
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  15. #65
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Thanks! Corrected.
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    For christ sake erik, you don't need to overload your already typically long winded responses by quoting a post in it's entirety

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    Re: MF direction

    Thanks for the "rest of the story," Dave. Your "anti-workshop" sounds like the very best sort of fun. Wish I was closer!

  17. #67
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    I've found the comment by Mr Lars very disturbing and misleading. In the past, this comment would be warned or banned by the moderators as it is not a fair comment and causes damages to people.
    Even if I complained that Lars post was the fourth anti-MF rant this month, I would not call it "disturbing and misleading". MF cameras are, generally speaking, noticeably more quirky than cameras built in much, much larger series and debugging is obviously not as good. Also: from personal experience, the marketing in some equipment fairs is a bit heavy on the "we all belong to the same exclusive club" stance, so I can also understand that part of the post.

    Therefore, in my opinion, there would be no basis for a moderator to act. I find it perfectly sufficient that Dave Gallagher posts a rebuttal and everybody is free to form their own opinion.

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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    Even if I complained that Lars post was the fourth anti-MF rant this month, I would not call it "disturbing and misleading". MF cameras are, generally speaking, noticeably more quirky than cameras built in much, much larger series and debugging is obviously not as good. Also: from personal experience, the marketing in some equipment fairs is a bit heavy on the "we all belong to the same exclusive club" stance, so I can also understand that part of the post.

    Therefore, in my opinion, there would be no basis for a moderator to act. I find it perfectly sufficient that Dave Gallagher posts a rebuttal and everybody is free to form their own opinion.
    I just expressed my opinion. Although some people enjoy the thread like this, some people like me (I'm sure I'm not the only one) don't like it and feel it to be "disturbing and misleading" and wasting of time. You will read the same people "who belong to the same exclusive club" who keep commenting the same opinions in different threads in different websites (GetDPI and LUS). I respect all photographers who make good works no matter what the tools they use. That's why almost all my posts were photos, not comments. Never a single time, I've said bad words about people who use different types or brands of cameras, digital or films. I think it's stupid to do so.

    I just said I don't like the current GetDPI as much as I did before. There is no question it's still the best forum for people who are interested in MFD. I know nothing lasts forever but I feel a little sad about it. It's used to be a forum where you came to get relaxed with a cup of coffee with friends, share photos, and learn a lot about MFD.
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 16th April 2016 at 13:50.
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  19. #69
    Member AreBee's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Landscapelover,

    I just expressed my opinion.
    As did Lars - if you re-read the original post you will find that the content is almost entirely subjective.
    Last edited by AreBee; 16th April 2016 at 14:39.

  20. #70
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Landscapelover: I agree. The current Trumpian climate isn't the way things were. A lot more negativity and polarization of opinion here and not for the better recently.

    Getdpi is headed the way of lula and hopefully not those other sites like dpreview but the absence of the mods in the MF section is noticeable. I put it down to shift in focus of Guy, Bob & Jack from MF but the site is poorer for it. I actually pay a little to support this place but I'm starting to wonder why.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Landscapelover: I agree. The current Trumpian climate isn't the way things were. A lot more negativity and polarization of opinion here and not for the better recently.

    Getdpi is headed the way of lula and hopefully not those other sites like dpreview but the absence of the mods in the MF section is noticeable. I put it down to shift in focus of Guy, Bob & Jack from MF but the site is poorer for it. I actually pay a little to support this place but I'm starting to wonder why.
    I am glad I'm not the only one who feel this way. It's sad to see GetDPI heading this way.
    It's getting harder and harder to find interesting threads for MFD at GetDPI.
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  22. #72
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    Re: MF direction

    i don't thinks it's so dark. outside of a few, (actually more recent) contributors (and usually about techie issues), i find a lot here to applaud and have found my own point of view getting expanded, maverick though i may be.

  23. #73
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post
    1) There was a day of training on the gear before the workshop started. There were incredibly talented people to help with any questions that he might have had. Computer workstations were set up so we could download documents and Capture One to jump drives and hand them out to anyone who needed them. Unfortunately, this great opportunity was missed.
    Dave, when I picked up the loaner gear you specifically said there was no manual. At no point when I picked up the gear did you or anyone else even hint to what you wrote above. So while there might have been a great opportunity missed, it was an opportunity that you missed, not I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post
    2) Mr. Vinberg neglected to point out that he was using the Phase One on a Technical camera for the first time. Who would pick up an 8x10 view camera and think that they can learn it in an hour? Using a digital back on a view camera or tech camera is not like “spraying” with a Nikon. This is not recommend by us or anyone in the industry. With this said, Mr. Vinberg also neglected to point out that our technician, Cam Williams, helped him set up the tech camera system and was right by his side to answer any questions from the beginning. In fact, here is a picture of the first actual shooting location on the first day where Cam is setting the equipment up for Lars while Lars is NOT paying attention. Another opportunity missed and proof that his statements were misleading at best.
    After picking up the gear in S.F. at 2PM I was told that the workshop would rejoin at Land's End after 3PM. I went there and waited in the parking lot for almost two hours for someone to show up. Eventually - after falling asleep in my car from the long wait - I made contact. Walking the trail down to the water around 6PM I happened upon Cam. This was not planned but a coincidence, as there were multiple trails leading down. Cam was not "right there from the beginning". The communication between me and Cam was limited. After setting up the camera I asked him why the back complained about not firing a second exposure, Cam explained about the Alpa sync adapter and corresponding menu setting. Cam was kind enough to verify the camera setup, although he did not explain what, if anything, he changed. I took the opportunity to document the occasion. The fact that you snapped a few shot of me looking away does not mean I was not paying attention. Dave, you weren't there except for a few moments, so you are in no position to make these false claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post
    3) "Yeah CCDs do that sometimes when overloaded with light, just power it off for a few minutes.". This statement is false and outright nonsensical. But let’s chalk this one up to an English translation and someone not understanding what is being said. I want to believe this at least. Listening to the problems as stated by Mr. Vinberg, my analysis was that the Phase One IQ3 60mp was left in the direct sun and the back overheated. Leaving any black metal electronics in the direct sun to bake is a bad idea. Anyone lose an iPhone this way? My daughter did and she was not happy about it. : ) I can actually see where this can be misconstrued. But if you are confused, then don't post a direct quote that is not correct.
    The quote in the paragraph above might not be 100% correct word by word but that is indeed what I was told. CCDs can be overwhelmed by light, and they need a few minutes powered off to recover or reset. There was of course no English translation involved, as the entire conversation was in English. I do no think there was any understanding issues as you seemed to perfectly understand the issue, and it seemed that the fix was very obvious to you - which indicates that its not an uncommon problem.

    Your "analysis" is completely off. Time of day was between 5:30PM to 6PM according the exposures that came out of the camera while I tried to get the live view working. Conditions were almost completely overcast, and slightly on the windy and chilly side, feet from the cold Pacific waters. A better analysis would have guessed that when I enabled live view the aperture of the lens was wide open which overwhelmed the CCD. As I understand it from our discussion that evening, that's likely what triggered the problem. To show the conditions, here is a capture made at the time when the CCD malfunctioned. Obviously this is not conditions where overheating from sunlight would be an issue. you were there in Carmel that afternoon so when we discussed this in the evening you would have been fully aware that heat issues from sunlight would have been unlikely, so it's a bit odd that you are making that claim now.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post
    4) Laughing at a customer. My wife and my employees often ask me why I have so much patience when it comes to clients as compared to them. And admittedly, it’s not even close. I truly need to do better by both my wife and my employees, but I am working on it. I work very hard to have the utmost respect and patience for both potential and current clients. If I had known that Mr. Vinberg was so “sh#% scared” to talk to me that he was thinking about “quitting his job and moving to a foreign country” I would not have laughed at his stressful situation. Secondly, the reason why I laughed is that Lars thought he had damaged the camera by taking the protective rear cap off the sensor and exposing it to daylight. I found this funny and yes I laughed. I want to state that Lars laughed along with me at this moment and I didn’t see any sign of an issue. But importantly, I am not above reproach. I make mistakes. And if I would have known that this would have caused any form of distress then I would have quickly apologized. Furthermore, Mr. Vinberg and I have shared multiple e-mails since the event and this was never brought up. This makes no sense to me.

    If I have done anything in any manner to upset someone, I implore them to speak to me directly so they can personally understand the man that I am and the company that I run. You will then have a strong perspective change at judging me and my character. However, not telling me personally how you feel when given multiple chances, then going online to a forum, and disparaging me publicly makes me question everything that you share about any subject and this post. Trust is lost.

    Sorry, but this is me “sharing my experiences and opinions”.

    Dave Gallagher
    CEO
    Capture Integration
    I wrote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post
    Laughing at a possible customer, well, that's a separate discussion between me and Dave - I'm sure he meant no harm, but considering the circumstances it will be a while before I forget.
    Dave,

    I repeat - I'm sure you meant no harm. To you, this was as obvious as inserting a battery. Had I known what questions to ask Cam when he was nearby on that first evening then perhaps this episode could have been avoided. The problem then, obviously, is knowing what questions to ask before you know what issues might arise.

    However, you are clearly attempting to shift the blame for the malfunctioning back on me. You insinuate that I am not asking the right questions, that I do not understand plain English, that I am not paying attention. Each of these criticisms are incorrect and unfounded. Summarized, they add up to something a far more personal than me mentioning that you laughed at me for missing what might be obvious to you. You could have simply responded that it was an unfortunate event and left it at that.

    -Lars
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Lars, you too "could have simply responded that it was an unfortunate event and left it at that."

    I've occasionally had problems with photo equipment that wasn't functioning as it should. I didn't find it necessary to trash the manufacturer (Leica, Sony, and even Phase) on a website. I contacted the dealer and got the problem resolved. I concluded that the issue I had needed to be fixed, but not that the manufacturer or dealer was a failure.

    Of course, these were items that I paid for, not loaners provided to me gratis.

  25. #75
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Lars,

    After reading your subsequent posts, I'm really surprised and actually quite taken aback by your comments now.

    First of all, CI in Carmel (aka "Pigs" and sometimes "Pigs in a Blanket" --which makes Dave *wince*) is a pseudo-workshop if you will, with an emphasis on like-minded photographers getting together to shoot, share, enjoy, learn---and have fun. Its not a "normal workshop" by any means. In fact, Don Libby and I often warn people if you don't have a sense of humor, you're best staying at home. (search these forums on past Pigs events and you get the idea). The most formal aspect is the C1 Pro class. Over the years, we've been fortunate to have CI sponsor the event providing attendees with the opportunity to try some of the latest and greatest in medium format equipment. Our out of pocket costs always exceed the CI in Carmel (or other location) fee that is collected. Don and I, the CI crew, and the Phase crew have a lot of fun at this event, and really work hard to make sure everyone has a good time. That camaraderie is what its really all about.

    Although Dave delivered my new IQ3 100MP digital back at this year's CI in Carmel, I did not set up my rig a single time during the weekend. I spent the entire weekend with Don and the CI and Phase One support crew jumping around checking on people. What I'm getting at here is that Dave Gallagher isn't the only funny looking guy helping out. If you had any difficulties whatsoever, I should have hoped you felt comfortable approaching me or anyone else with questions or anything. But you didn't. There is an incredible number of very talented photographers that attend this event every year. No egos. All are friendly, approachable, and a wealth of knowledge. Some, like Graham Welland, have enough equipment to open their own camera stores. But it also doesn't seem like you approached anyone and kept your frustrations to yourself. Until now.

    What puzzles me more is that a day or so after the CI in Carmel event, you felt comfortable enough to call me and then visit me in Carmel. Yet, you still never mentioned having any difficulties with the equipment, other than losing a small Alpa cable piece (*ouch* for sure being that it is Alpa). No offense taken, but I hope the opportunity provided you with some smiles and at least an affirmation of what works for you.

    You're a good photographer that is adept with an 8x10 camera, and you seem to really enjoy that process, tedious as it may be to others. Quite frankly, you're the odd bird out, and that's perfectly okay. (Let's be honest here. How many others have developed their own digital imaging software?). Given that, I don't think that any MFDBs have much of a chance to make you grin and giggle. It didn't work for you. Simply shoot what you like and leave it at that. And really that's the way it should be for anyone: Buy what you want. Shoot what you like. And respect other's decisions as to what gear makes them giggle like a school girl. (yeah, I too tire of the MFDB dribble, particularly from those at LL that don't shoot MFDBs anyway).

    Ken
    www.houseoflandscapes.com
    www.kendoophotography.com
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  26. #76
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Ken,

    I did approach Dave (and I think Cam) about the live view issue with the CCD back, a few hours after it happened.
    The next morning they insisted that I swap the CCD back for a CMOS back. I thought I did mention the CCD issue to you but perhaps it was someone else.

    My original intent with this thread was to have a discussion around the increasingly competitive market.
    Obviously that didn't work.
    I have asked the moderator to remove the entire thread.

    Anyways, thanks for hosting the non-workshop, it was fun.
    -Lars
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    I forgot to mention the famous world-class (in my mind) BBQ smoked baby back ribs----you liked the ribs, right?

    ken

  28. #78
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    im just not sure how to respond about the GetDPI. I'm no longer shooting MF so my focus is not here and I have been basically been ignored from outside the folks here since I left. Not a call , not are you dead or alive. Jack and Bob are not here as well but your all adults and should know how to handle yourselfs. Plus if you feel GetDPI is slipping why have none of you sent us a PM and expressed your feelings. This is on you folks too. I'm a working PRo I need to pay attention on that level as well. All mods have jobs or businesses as well and Hobbes for some turn to other things, this is natural changes for folks. I was asked to delete this but I feel I should not. We all have opinions and they should be respected for those opinions even if they run opposite of your beliefs. Final statement I left MF because I had too , I have had a wife with 3 different cancers over the last 6 years. This was not by choice to sell it all but I feel extremely dropped out from the folks that shared my passion for it. Like I said are you dead or alive Guy and one reason I did not go to this particular venue. This is not about the members here but the industry which I totally supported .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MF direction

    The theme of this thread has been sad from the start for grown men, saying the files from the new 100mp phase are crap is obviously a load of bs, people need to be held accountable when bad naming a person and their business on the internet, sounds like OP has hurt feelings and needs to move on, I agree that this forum has changed but there are still many good threads with people who know their stuff, there are a heap of pros using phase ones in the field and all I've heard are great things and the prints look incredible that I've seen in galleries.
    www.williamophuis.com

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    Re: MF direction

    That someone who handled a certain system for the first time feels entitled to draw bold conclusions about this system and to think about its position and future in the market is an embarrassment that can hardly be outdone and shows an all through amateurish attitude. What a pain to read through all this BS ...
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Ophuis View Post
    The theme of this thread has been sad from the start for grown men, saying the files from the new 100mp phase are crap is obviously a load of bs, people need to be held accountable when bad naming a person and their business on the internet, sounds like OP has hurt feelings and needs to move on, I agree that this forum has changed but there are still many good threads with people who know their stuff, there are a heap of pros using phase ones in the field and all I've heard are great things and the prints look incredible that I've seen in galleries.
    the sad thing is that some mf dealers use forums like this as extended storeroom for their business but its seems they can not handle negative comments in an appropriate way.
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  32. #82
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    the sad thing is that some mf dealers use forums like this as extended storeroom for their business but its seems they can not handle negative comments in an appropriate way.
    How many dealers do you know would get on a plane with twenty digital backs and a ton of Alpa gear to let you play for four days in a beautiful scenic spot?

    There is a photo of me online with my tripod and an IQ300 surrounded by a rising tide. Do you think that was my digital back?

    When was the last time anyone from B&H has offered to do anything for you but offer free shipping?

    Think about it.

    In hindsight it's easy to offer conjecture about these things. If you weren't at the event. Then perhaps it's a bit difficult to see what exactly happened.

    I mean this with all due respect to everyone.
    Last edited by Jeffery Salter; 17th April 2016 at 15:28. Reason: spelling correction
    Jeffery Salter
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  33. #83
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    Re: MF direction

    This all thread is getting ridiculous beyond reason.

    We have had a member posting, basically, that the MF back he tried in a workshop/photographers gathering was not very ergonomic to use and had bugs. So far, so good. MF backs on technical cams are indeed not that intuitive to use for everyone and MF backs are known to have bugs. It is a reasonable thing to complain about, even if it would be better for the forum if these regular complains were somewhat grouped together in their own thread.

    Then we had the criticism of the reseller present in that photographers gathering. Personally, I could not care less: I have never used their services and am unlikely to ever need them, because I live in another continent. And, frankly, I do not see where the problem was: Lars was not satisfied by the service and said so in a reasonably polite manner. Dave answered in an equally reasoned and polite post. I would suggest we consider the case closed and move on.
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    Re: MF direction

    Lots of good info here.

    Out of curiosity...Lars, what are you expectations from these MFD cameras?
    Leica M240, P25+, P30+
    www.danlandoni.com

  35. #85
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by athimbleofdan View Post
    Out of curiosity...Lars, what are you expectations from these MFD cameras?
    Good question.

    Obviously the overwhelmed CCD was not in line with my expectations.
    Neither was dealer's response that it was normal and user error.
    This in turn illuminated the need for documentation, whereas I was told by dealer when I picked up the gear that there was no manual, and that I should ask questions instead.

    I also expected raw files correctly exposed at base ISO from CCD to look far cleaner pre-denoise.

    -Lars
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  36. #86
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Ophuis View Post
    The theme of this thread has been sad from the start for grown men, saying the files from the new 100mp phase are crap is obviously a load of bs, people need to be held accountable when bad naming a person and their business on the internet, sounds like OP has hurt feelings and needs to move on, I agree that this forum has changed but there are still many good threads with people who know their stuff, there are a heap of pros using phase ones in the field and all I've heard are great things and the prints look incredible that I've seen in galleries.
    Correction of your post: I criticized the files from the 60MP CCD back, not the 100MP CMOS back.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  37. #87
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    That someone who handled a certain system for the first time feels entitled to draw bold conclusions about this system and to think about its position and future in the market is an embarrassment that can hardly be outdone and shows an all through amateurish attitude. What a pain to read through all this BS ...
    Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote... You state that for me to even think about a product and its market is an embarrassment.

    This is pretty much contrary to the openness that is behind this and all other public forums that are not censored.
    If you want that heavy level of moderation then you need to find another forum.
    I even asked the moderator to remove this thread, for the benefit of everyone involved. He declined. So uncensored it is.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    This is pretty much contrary to the openness that is behind this and all other public forums that are not censored.
    there are two sides to everything. The openness in forums like this allows knowledge exchange as well as nonsense exchange by every idiot.

  39. #89
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    there are two sides to everything. The openness in forums like this allows knowledge exchange as well as nonsense exchange by every idiot.
    So... did your post contribute to knowledge exchange or did it fall into the other category you mention?
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  40. #90
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    I think there's a clear relationship between emotion (and name-calling), and the quality and usefulness of internet threads. The more of the former, the less of the latter.

    Sometimes it's hard to let someone you think is insulting have the last word, but if you don't, these things go on forever.
    Last edited by stephengilbert; 17th April 2016 at 09:47.
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  41. #91
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    Correction of your post: I criticized the files from the 60MP CCD back, not the 100MP CMOS back.
    I thought I would not give any more comment but I'd like to correct your massage.

    You might be too upset to remember what you wrote.

    "In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free - it completely ruins my creative process, I would hate every second of the experience, and the upside in imaging results is debatable. Had I used my 8x10 at the Carmel workshop, I would have had a handful of truly amazing exposures, as opposed to dozens of crappy, noisy, bulky files. Sure, it would take a bit of time and effort in post including development and drum scanning, but there would be a real contribution to my portfolio, whereas what I got from the P1 backs (60 MP CCD and 100 MP CMOS) was frankly utter crap".
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  42. #92
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Getdpi is headed the way of lula and hopefully not those other sites like dpreview but the absence of the mods in the MF section is noticeable. I put it down to shift in focus of Guy, Bob & Jack from MF but the site is poorer for it. I actually pay a little to support this place but I'm starting to wonder why.
    I wasn't aware that Guy, Jack and Bob had all moved out of MF. In a large part due to their enthusiasm, GetDPI had carved out a particular niche with medium format digital, so that news is a real shame.

    MR over at LuLa was always a champion for MF (perhaps too much at times), but even that began to wane .. and now, under new management, MF seems to have taken a back seat too (even though Kevin Raber still dusts it off once in a while).

    There seems to be an almost silent drift away from MFD in arenas such as this - I wonder what can be done to reverse the tide ?

    Jim

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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    ...what I got from the P1 backs (60 MP CCD and 100 MP CMOS) was frankly utter crap...
    Hmm, now let me think ...


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    Re: MF direction

    Hej Lars!

    There's always a positive to every seemingly terrible situation, now you can strike MFD from your list of options and concentrate on something else, and all it cost you was a few hundred bucks and a weekend with some decent people, maybe you should be thanking them for saving you from spending many thousands and then finding out it's crap!

    All the best with what you end up using, as long as it gives you pleasure then that's all that matters.

    Mat
    http://matrichardson.com/
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  45. #95
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Before this thread I was disappointed that I've never attended a Pigs. Now I'm down right pissed at myself.

    Then it occurred to me that this thread is nothing but a marketing ploy by Dave, Lars, Ken and Don. In six months Lars will be posting another thread saying his new IQ3100 blows away his 8x10 captures. In exchange for these posts Dave is giving Lars a free back.

    Well played guys, all the way down to the, "In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free" comment. But I'm on to you all. I'm making my reservation the day next year's invitation goes live.

    Gotta get up pret-ty early in the morning to fool me.


    Dave
    Last edited by dchew; 17th April 2016 at 08:50.
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  46. #96
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    Re: MF direction

    I find this experience odd. Odd that in the 8-years Ken and I have hosted Pigs that this is the first to my knowledge where someone was so dissatisfied that he felt the need to publicly pronounce his displeasure. I also have never heard of someone contacting either Ken, Dave or myself personally to express displeasure.

    Regarding deleting a post after it goes sideways – you (meaning anyone) who begins a conversation (any conversation) should be adult enough to withstand the ups and downs of the conversation. I’ve been following this particular conversation since it began and only this morning decided to comment on it. I’d recommend to anyone that before you post either a new conversation or part of one, think of what you’re doing. It’s easy to write things in a manner that one wouldn’t normally do if that person was face to face. I for one am pleased that Guy didn’t delete.

    Clearly there isn’t going to be any clear winners in this conversation and we should just allow it to die.

    Just my 2-cents worth

    Don
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  47. #97
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    I thought I would not give any more comment but I'd like to correct your massage.

    You might be too upset to remember what you wrote.

    "In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free - it completely ruins my creative process, I would hate every second of the experience, and the upside in imaging results is debatable. Had I used my 8x10 at the Carmel workshop, I would have had a handful of truly amazing exposures, as opposed to dozens of crappy, noisy, bulky files. Sure, it would take a bit of time and effort in post including development and drum scanning, but there would be a real contribution to my portfolio, whereas what I got from the P1 backs (60 MP CCD and 100 MP CMOS) was frankly utter crap".
    You're right - and this is a model example of how to hold a contributor accountable.
    I was in my mind referring to the 60MP CCD back only. The 100MP CMOS back has a different file format so I have been yet been unable to evaluate the raw files.
    I will correct my OP. (EDIT: the OP is no longer editable.)
    My mistake,
    -Lars
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

  48. #98
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Before this thread I was disappointed that I've never attended a Pigs. Now I'm down right pissed at myself.

    Then it occurred to me that this thread is nothing but a marketing ploy by Dave, Lars, Ken and Don. In six months Lars will be posting another thread saying his new IQ3100 blows away his 8x10 captures. In exchange for these posts Dave is giving Lars a free back.

    Well played guys, all the way down to the, "In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free" comment. But I'm on to you all. I"m making my reservation the day next year's invitation goes live.

    Gotta get up pret-ty early in the morning to fool me.


    Dave
    Actually, we did succeed in fooling you, Dave. It is a ploy alright, but it's actually all about distributing my world class BBQ baby back ribs smoked on the Traeger to combat Vegan superpowers and crimes against humanity. See, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFCAcQxmYDI We almost got Jeanine Henebry (vegetarian) to partake in the ribs, but she opted for a vegetarian sandwich, which I spiked with a slice of bacon. Of course, we document all incidents using medium format digital. Next years CI/Pigs event goes on location (Don has the details already!). I probably won't take my Traeger on the road, but you can still count on some pretty good BBQ and great company.

    See you next year! ken

  49. #99
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Sometimes its hard to let someone you think is insulting have the last word, but if you don't, these things go on forever.
    No they don't
    (sorry I couldn't resist)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  50. #100
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF direction

    Just FYI lets keep it respectful of others and please no name calling. The GetDPI golden rule applies. Thanks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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