Yes, please.
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Yes, please.
you didn't expose to the rightSorry, mine shows quite the opposite.
I did, I just held my camera upside down.you didn't expose to the right
I believe that more accurately you will have basically a new 1959 car :salute:Maybe I like outdated. I've got a 1959 car.
Well said Jeffery. In regards to dealers using the forum....I just had a conversation with Brad from CI this afternoon about the dealers role in MFD. When you buy MF you NEED a dealer...Unlike 35mm which you reach out to someone in India to field a technical call for an issue you may have, your MF dealer provides updated information, technical issues that certain MF components may be experiencing, extensive testing of MF equipment, liaison to the manufacturer and sales info..NEW GEAR!!!LOL.... This just does not happen in the 35mm world. SO WHY would someone pick on a dealer for their presence, replying to a post, offering up comments or maybe announcing a sale they're having on a forum.....Why?How many dealers do you know would get on a plane with twenty digital backs and a ton of Alpa gear to let you play for four days in a beautiful scenic spot?
There is a photo of me online with my tripod and an IQ300 surrounded by a rising tide. Do you think that was my digital back?
When was the last time anyone from B&H has offered to do anything for you but offer free shipping?
Think about it.
In hindsight it's easy to offer conjecture about these things. If you weren't at the event. Then perhaps it's a bit difficult to see what exactly happened.
I mean this with all due respect to everyone.
I have not needed a dealer in the five years I used MF cameras, expect to have my first MF repaired. But then, I also need to go through a dealer to have any camera repaired (including 35mm), so I see no difference.When you buy MF you NEED a dealer...
But does it already have a steering wheel ? ? ? :grin:But it's still outdated: no computer, no LCD screen.
I have not needed a dealer in the five years I used MF cameras, expect to have my first MF repaired. But then, I also need to go through a dealer to have any camera repaired (including 35mm), so I see no difference.
I also rarely participate in group events and marketing fairs. As I already said, from personal experience, the marketing in equipment fairs is a bit too heavy on the "we all belong to the same exclusive club" stance for my taste.
(Note that I never picked on dealers in this forum. As long as they clearly identify themselves as dealers, I have no problem with them participating in the discussion.)
I just said that I have not needed the extra services of a dealer in the last five years. That is a simple statement of fact, not a criticism.You've been fortunate, Jerome. And not to imply that you are an extremely rare bird, most users carry along perfectly fine without a hitch. But many do encounter - something. The majority of our supportive time and efforts as a dealer are spent troubleshooting, diagnosing, testing, inspecting, confirming, etc. This goes for software, as well as hardware. All these elements come into play not just when one of our clients contacts us with a problem, but also, at least the testing/inspecting tasks, occur before you even receive your equipment from us. And also before you receive your repaired equipment. Are you getting a good lens? Are you getting a good sensor? Has the repair really resolved the issue? Yes, we've seen a repair come back and right out of the box, the same exact thing it went in for is still occurring. We've seen issues with both new out of the box and gear coming back from repair. Rare, but we've seen it, and common enough that we don't want a client to encounter that, hence the degree of hands-on we perform.
This idea that all a dealer does is send a piece of equipment to the manufacturer so the manufacturer can fix it is - in our case, anyway - extremely inaccurate. It relegates the dealer to the level of the postal service. I don't have a strong relationship with anyone at the post office, they just deliver my mail. But i do have a number of strong and trusting relationships with various other vendors that I personally do business with. I trust these individuals on a professional and even personal level. And I might not need them beyond what I have paid them to do, but I have chosen them because in the event I do have to trust, I want to be able to trust them. It feels like an advantage to me. And it means something to me to know that I have a good feeling about this person or company that I am giving my money to. I feel better about giving it to them, and I don't (potentially) feel like a fool for having given it to someone else.
But I'm fully human. Sometimes a box will show up at our office for me from Amazon. And the team gives me a hard time about it, and I'll say "I know, I try not to. I'm not proud about it.", and they laugh.
Since when does not needing something mean that it isn't good to have? My wife Rachel doesn't need a new lawnmower, but yes, she surely would take one. You might not ever need a dealer. Then again, you never know. It's natural to feel like a product should just do what it is supposed to, and if it doesn't, it gets fixed. But it doesn't always work out that way. As a consumer, I don't need a dealer, but if something happens, I want one, and I want the best one.
I just said that I have not needed the extra services of a dealer in the last five years. That is a simple statement of fact, not a criticism.
As an answer, I have what? The thinly veiled suggestion that I am, to say the least, foolishly underestimating the risks. I also get two full paragraphs on the ethics of buying cameras, complete with a suggestion that I should not be proud about my behaviour.
As I already said: I shall probably never need your services, for the obvious reason that I live on another continent. Therefore, I have no knowledge of your business and I'll refrain from commenting on it. But there is one thing I shall say: would I live in the USA, self praise and thinly veiled insults would not convince me to enter in a "relationship" (as you call it) with your business.
Funny, how many posters feel the urge to defend the(ir) dealers. Isn't that the essence of a dealer: to be a nice, knowledgeable, customer oriented guy? I am sure the dealers who post here are the best in their fields, but that isn't really the point …
The point is that the MFD cameras are very expensive and that rises the questions and doubts of the OP. Why are they so expensive: high RD and general overhead cost in relation to productions numbers, higher costs of labour in Europe (here a small advantage of Pentax) and different marketing and customer service models. Whereas the first points are difficult to overcome (but for Sony), the last one is variable and handled quite differently by PhaseOne, Hasselblad, Leica and Pentax, being PhaseOne the most luxurious. If a dealer states that these "few days where good friends and clients get together to play with the latest photographic gear" where the "ridiculously small fee of $349 doesn’t even come close to covering the expenses of the event", what he says is that there is a heavy subsidy employed which is payed either by the dealer or by PhaseOne/Alpa .... This means that it has to be covered in another way: the price of the product. I would be really curious to know which are the differences between Hasselbald, Leica and PhaseOne as regards dealer margins, maybe CI can give us a hint as they deal with all 3 brands.
If you like this kind of events and also like a tailor-made customer service, this business model is fine, and it should be as you have already payed for it, if you use it or not. I personally don't like to pay for services I may or (probably) may not use.
If I had a problem with my Leica S, I would contact directly the customer service at the Leica headquarters in Wetzlar, no need at all to deal with my dealer.
And if I needed the extra customer service, I would buy the "Leica Protection Plan" (24 hours exchange), which - by the way - is nearly 20% of the equipment cost.
Sounds to me like everyone needs to turn off their computers, take their favorite camera(s) and go shoot. Goodness!
My point here was, that even an extended warranty scheme, including exchange of defective parts within 24 hours, costs already 20% of the equipment price (and only for 3 years in case of Leica). Imagine the extra cost of additional expert services which you provide every day "for free", so to say.Also - keep in mind, the only thing the Protection Plan does is provide extended warranty service for a defective component. Believe me, if that was all that our tech team needed to take care of, we'd shave 65% off our service/tech workload.
I posted a reply to:I'm sorry you took offense Jerome. You posted a reply to someone who recommended having a dealer, and went into some detail about why he felt this. And you responded that you had not needed a dealer in 5 years seemingly as a sort of rebuttal. I guess if you didn't mean it as a rebuttal, you would have said something along the lines of "And I've had the benefit of equipment that hasn't brought me any trouble" or something along those lines.
which I explicitly cited. I also said that I had no problem with dealers participating in the forum.When you buy MF you NEED a dealer...
You certainly have as much legitimacy at expressing your opinions as I do, but maybe I should explain my opinion a bit better because apparently it was not fully understood.But you didn't, your point seemed to be aimed at diminishing the importance of a dealer because you had not needed one in 5 years, and I don't think you can call foul when you make a statement like that ... to make some point, seemingly, and then have an issue with me providing context on what a good dealer (sorry if you think I'm self praising) does beyond handle the administrative processing of a repair. I espoused the benefits of having a good dealer, or of having trusted and valued relationships with any vendor, and I believe that professionally and I believe that personally. I have as much legitimacy at expressing that opinion as you do yours.
Then I simply suggest that we consider the incident closed and leave the discussion at that.My reference about pride was meant humorously and ironically (and to actually point fun at me), which seemed to escape your notice. It certainly wasn't pointed at you or anyone else, and I didn't mean for it to be taken that way.
I posted a reply to:
which I explicitly cited. I also said that I had no problem with dealers participating in the forum.
You certainly have as much legitimacy at expressing your opinions as I do, but maybe I should explain my opinion a bit better because apparently it was not fully understood.
Some photographers need the services a dealer can provide, some don't. Conversely, some dealers provide good services, some provide service that rather systematically pushes their customers in the direction of maximum profit for them. And I am free to say that in a discussion with you, because I never use your services, so you should not construct that sentence as a criticism of your business, because I simply do not know anything about you and your business. So I cannot be talking about you.
In the context of the cited discussion, I felt it was important to remind the readers that not everybody may need the services a dealer can provide. For example, one can simply buy a used camera from another user and be happy about that. That's what I did. And no, I did not buy my camera from Amazon: Amazon does not sell MF cameras in Germany.
Of course, when one does not bring his or her business to a dealer, one should not expect to (ab)use their services: I don't pester my local dealers with requests for firmware, demo camera or lenses, courses, etc... Conversely, some people may prefer to get this kind of service and then choose to buy their camera from a dealer. It's one or the other and I have no problem either way. But in the context of the discussion above, and taking into account that getdpi is an international forum and that not all members have access to the services typically provided by dealers, I felt it was necessary to express that alternatives exist.
Then I simply suggest that we consider the incident closed and leave the discussion at that.