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Thread: New depth of field calculator app

  1. #1
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    New depth of field calculator app

    With my Linhof Techno I've been using my own custom tables with hyperfocal, hinge distances and wedge spans for all my lenses and various apertures, and I still use them. However nowadays with always a smartphone in the pocket I've thought about having an app at least as a complement for some time. I've used a simple viewfinder app for quite some time to help in composition before I mount the camera, but I haven't really found a DoF app that I've liked more than simply using my printed tables.

    I've had some ideas on how to make an app in a better way, at least as I see it :-). I started to work with it more than a year ago but it was put on ice due to other efforts, but finally I've been able to finalize it and release "Lumariver Depth of Field Calculator", available for both Android and iOS.

    I've made a lot of free software in my days, but this one is not one of them so I guess you could call this a commercial, but I honestly do think it has a major relevance for tech users (and well any high resolution camera for landscape and architecture) and of course I designed it to use it myself. And if Phase One dealers can post, I hope I can :-).

    It's probably a little bit too advanced for Average Joe, like most stuff I do it's niche. As that it's a bit more expensive too ($9), but I don't think anyone has put this much effort into a DoF calculator before...

    Here's direct link to the store fronts:
    iOS:
    https://itunes.apple.com/se/app/luma...0226?l=en&mt=8

    Android:
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...o.lumariverdof

    ...but the home page entry is more fun, where you find a demo video, instruction video and a user manual:
    Lumariver Depth of Field Calculator homepage

    What I often lack in other DoF apps is configurability, for example concerning circle of confusion, everyone seems to have their own preference of what it should be. I also prefer to have my own lenses setup rather than a drop-down to enter my focal length. I also think many apps have been lacking in efficient GUI layout, and I've addressed all those aspects.

    When it comes to tilt calculators there haven't been much to choose from at all, there are one or two, but I haven't found one that even shows wedge span in actual height which I think is so much more useful for live view and ground glass users than just a degree value.

    Oh, there's a focus-stacking mode there too to make the app "complete" as focus-stacking has become increasingly popular even in landscape applications. How useful that mode is will depend on what type of gear you have though, and like the tilt function it can be disabled if you don't need it so it won't clutter the user interface unnecessarily. I'm not a big fan of focus stacking myself but I've really tried to get into it and make it as useful as it could be.

    I've attached a couple of screenshots. The design is oriented around a set of inter-connected scrollers and locks, and an animated diagram on top. We like metric units here in Sweden as seen in the screenshot but you can configure it to decimal feet too. I hope someone more than myself likes it :-), I've calculated that I would need to sell about 5000 copies to make break-even compared to the ordinary paid software development work I do, but if I manage to get 50 out of this niche app I'm happy, which I guess is about 50% of the total tech cam population these days so it's still a tough goal .
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Got it Anders! Looks interesting. I'll report back after a few days.

    Ciao,
    Dave

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Looks like a great app for those that already know what they are doing and just want a fast and accurate way to do the appropriate math.

    Kudos!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Just purchased it myself.
    Will provide feedback after a few days of use.
    Thanks for putting in the effort.
    Cheers!
    IQ3 100 H Cambo 1600 Rodenstock 23,32,50,90 Zeiss 180,350SA
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quick question:
    May be I am not noticing something obvious but is there a way to set values in feet and not meters?
    IQ3 100 H Cambo 1600 Rodenstock 23,32,50,90 Zeiss 180,350SA
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    Quick question:
    May be I am not noticing something obvious but is there a way to set values in feet and not meters?
    Gear icon -distance scale - units
    davechewphotography.com
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Yes it's there under the settings, thanks Dave for replying while I was sleeping . Currently I only support meters and decimal feet. I'm not sure if that's enough or if there's some other unit I should support too. If you find something obvious missing please let me know so I can add in a future release.

    As seen on the screenshots the GUI is quite compact, it's designed to fit on an iPhone 5 / SE (screenshot shows a Nexus 5). On larger phones (and tablets) the interface adapts and the diagram gets larger but the buttons and information stays the same.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Thanks torger. Got it.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    If you find something obvious missing please let me know so I can add in a future release.
    Perhaps not missing, but you may wish to consider the following suggestions for improvement:

    1. I consider it a mistake to include the lenses section in the camera system section. Many lenses can be used on multiple bodies, especially these days with mirrorless cameras. Therefore, a lens section should be independent of a body section. More importantly, at present if a new body (as part of a camera system) is created, new lenses for it must also be created, even if lenses defined for another body (camera system) can be mounted to it.

    For example, if you create a Nikon D800 camera system and accompanying lenses, then create a Nikon D100 camera system, on the main screen you can't select lenses defined for the D800, even though in reality they can be mounted to a D100.

    2. When using the app for non-tilt (I have not yet considered tilt ) depth of field, my order of operation would be to scroll (or, more likely fix, in order to limit diffraction) f-stop, then scroll values of focus and consider the near and far column values until I was satisfied with the depth of field returned.

    At present the focus column is on the far right, whereas it seems logical to me for the column order to be: f-stop, focus, near, far. From an ergonomic point of view this would make it easier to adjust the f-stop and focus columns with one finger (in my case my left hand thumb). It would also mean that my finger does not obscure the near and far column values when making adjustments.

    3. After selecting a camera system or lens in the main screen header there is no way for the user to cancel. They can simply reselect the camera or lens already selected, but in principle should there be an ok button, as per the set focal length screen?

    4. Given that the camera system shortname is displayed in the main screen header, what is the purpose of the (non-shortened) camera system name? The person that created the custom camera system will have no difficulty recognising the former...because they created it. Is the latter superfluous?

    Apart from that it's pretty good.
    Rob
    www.robbuckle.co.uk
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    I was expecting to downselect from a menu my cameras and lenses.
    Is there a version running on a Mac computer?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Thanks for the feedback;

    1. Ok, I consider it to be a mistake . I see your point. However you can always enter the lens again on the other system. It's a bit messy to reorder the configuration structure for upgrades, but I guess a middle way would be to be able to when you add a new lens to pick from a list of lenses you've already entered for any system so it's easy to duplicate them. In my case I wouldn't want all my lenses to be available on all systems as I don't use any Digitars on my Canon and no Canons on my Linhof. The idea is to present only the lenses you have at hand when in the main screens working to keep it clean.

    2. I actually have considered that order. The reason the order is the way it is is a tradeoff between several design goals, one being to match order with the tilt screen where the focus distance is the rightmost column. It's not possible to make an order that suits everyone, however it would be easy to make the column order configurable so it would suit different workflows and left-handed and right-handed people. Good idea, I will definitely consider that.

    3. This is the part of the new tradition of user interface design, it's actually not me that has chosen that way, it's the framework. User interfaces today try to get rid of as many ok and cancel buttons as possible to reduce the number of clicks/taps required, and one result of that is that a selection dropbox don't have any ok button if not needed. The scroller for focal length needs it as the app doesn't know if the user is ready picking. On Android phones there's the hardware back button, and on tablets the modal doesn't cover the full screen so you push on the side. While I do see you have a point, I'm probably not changing this part as it's the way list selection works these days.

    4. The non-shortened name is used in the camera system selection list. It's a matter of preference if one cares to make a beautiful long name or not. In my case my shortname is "Techno" and the longname is "Linhof Techno / H4D-50 Hasselblad", and "5Dmk2" and "Canon EOS 5D Mark II". The same is for lenses, I've entered "Schneider-Kreuznach Apo-Digitar XL 47mm/5.6" for longname and "SK47XL" for shortname. It doesn't fulfill any function as such to have the full name, I just think it looks nice when selecting lens / camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Anders,



    Perhaps not missing, but you may wish to consider the following suggestions for improvement:

    1. I consider it a mistake to include the lenses section in the camera system section. Many lenses can be used on multiple bodies, especially these days with mirrorless cameras. Therefore, a lens section should be independent of a body section. More importantly, at present if a new body (as part of a camera system) is created, new lenses for it must also be created, even if lenses defined for another body (camera system) can be mounted to it.

    For example, if you create a Nikon D800 camera system and accompanying lenses, then create a Nikon D100 camera system, on the main screen you can't select lenses defined for the D800, even though in reality they can be mounted to a D100.

    2. When using the app for non-tilt (I have not yet considered tilt ) depth of field, my order of operation would be to scroll (or, more likely fix, in order to limit diffraction) f-stop, then scroll values of focus and consider the near and far column values until I was satisfied with the depth of field returned.

    At present the focus column is on the far right, whereas it seems logical to me for the column order to be: f-stop, focus, near, far. From an ergonomic point of view this would make it easier to adjust the f-stop and focus columns with one finger (in my case my left hand thumb). It would also mean that my finger does not obscure the near and far column values when making adjustments.

    3. After selecting a camera system or lens in the main screen header there is no way for the user to cancel. They can simply reselect the camera or lens already selected, but in principle should there be an ok button, as per the set focal length screen?

    4. Given that the camera system shortname is displayed in the main screen header, what is the purpose of the (non-shortened) camera system name? The person that created the custom camera system will have no difficulty recognising the former...because they created it. Is the latter superfluous?

    Apart from that it's pretty good.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    I was expecting to downselect from a menu my cameras and lenses.
    Is there a version running on a Mac computer?
    No, there's no mac version, so I'm afraid you have to enter the lenses in the app. There's a zillion camera systems and lenses out there so to make dropdowns for them all was just too much work. If you think it's too tedious to enter them manually (you do it only once), a shortcut is to just adjust the sensor size of the generic system and keep the "generic zoom lens" and just adjust its range to include all focal lengths you have.

    I'm aware that people are going to dislike this configuration step as it's not exactly fun, and I'm thinking of making some way to import from a computer so you can enter the info with a real keyboard. It's not too bad if you just do it though, the auto-completition feature on the smartphone keyboard helps a lot for repetitive names.

    I have myself a preference for apps that are a bit more tedious to configure but in the end feels customized for my needs. Thus I like Rob's idea of being able to change the order of the scrollers.

    Anyway, in addition to make lenses easy to copy I could consider to make dropdowns for at least common lenses, and then the rest you would enter manually. That is the add button would open a modal to show a choice to copy one a previously entered lens, or choose from a dropdown of common lenses, or create a new generic lens to edit (like today). The app doesn't require any internet permissions today, it's just a self-contained calculator. If enabling that I could consider making a cloud service for storing configuration but I'm not sure it's worth it... I'll think about it.
    Last edited by torger; 22nd April 2016 at 05:09.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    I've been playing around with this since last night - like it a lot, particularly the sharp/soft edges to depth of field - something I hadn't come across before. Still getting to grips with the tilt screen.

    Having a lens database for multiple bodies sounds neat, but in practice it takes just a couple of minutes to enter the lenses for each body. Unless you have dozens of bodies, it's a non-issue.

    The scroll bars can be accessed easily enough with either hand (unless you have short thumbs and a huge smartphone), so their arrangement doesn't bother me either.

    Thanks Anders !

    Jim

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Thanks. Right bow I have your app on an iPad, that's easier on my eyes.
    Once I have entered data, is it easy then to transfer them to my iPhone?
    Thanks again. (I have about 10 cameras and many, many lenses. )
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    ...you can always enter the lens again on the other system.
    I don't like inneficient.

    ...a middle way would be to be able to when you add a new lens to pick from a list of lenses you've already entered for any system so it's easy to duplicate them.
    Yes, a tick-list would be good.

    ...it would be easy to make the column order configurable...
    This would be good.

    Separately, toggling the Show sharp/soft CoC buttons seems to not do anything. Am I missing something?

    Also, I appreciate I'm nitpicking, but given that depth of field is not solely a function of aperture, I consider that the selected aperture value should not be stated in the hyperfocal distance text in the main screen footer.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks. Right bow I have your app on an iPad, that's easier on my eyes.
    Once I have entered data, is it easy then to transfer them to my iPhone?
    Thanks again. (I have about 10 cameras and many, many lenses. )
    Uh-oh, you're going to hate me now, it's not easy to transfer them to the iPhone as far as I know, I didn't implement any such feature at least. I didn't make it an "it's all in the cloud app", but for users with that many cameras I guess I should have... now it's just a self-contained calculator which doesn't even require access to the internet.

    On iOS all apps automatically have access to internet, while on Android you have to ask for permissions, and many of us Android users have come to really dislike that every little app is wanting to access all sorts of resources so I made it a minimal permission app, the only permission it asks for is to vibrate the phone, which it does when it registers an angle measurement in the tilt screen.

    I'll think about making it easier to enter lots of systems for those that have lots of them but unfortunately it's not a small feature but a rather big one so it will stay the way it is for a while.

    If I were you I would focus on the high resolution gear you use to shoot landscapes which is where the app is most useful so maybe you don't need to enter all 10 cameras. You could always have one "generic" system too like the default, the possibility to enter your own systems is to make the app to feel more customized and cosy, but it's not strictly necessary. If you base your circle of confusion on airy disk, like the default is, you don't need to have the correct sensor size or pixel pitch either.
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    If you base your circle of confusion on airy disk, like the default is, you don't need to have the correct sensor size or pixel pitch either.
    If you enter the actual sensor pixel pitch, are calculated depth of field values more accurate?

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Separately, toggling the Show sharp/soft CoC buttons seems to not do anything. Am I missing something?
    What should happen is that the pair of buttons on the main screen that are green and says "sharp" should disappear from the main screen, and you will always run in "sharp" mode. It works for me(tm). The idea is that if you don't use the feature you don't need to clutter the user interface with the buttons.

    If you have then enabled the buttons are shown and then if you tap a green sharp one it turns into a red soft one. What happens is that you switch circle of confusion to the secondary "soft" one. You need to configure those to your liking. (You could configure them backwards such that the softer is actually sharper I have no such check, but it wouldn't make sense of course).

    The purpose of this feature is to use it in cases when you really can't have enough DoF and you don't feel like stopping down further, but rather make the edges a bit softer without resorting to plain guesswork. A special aspect of it is that you can choose to only compromise one end, like the near edge if you only have big not-as-detailed structures close, or the far edge which may be a bit fuzzy due to atmospheric anyway.

    For my sharp mode I have entered so small CoC that the edges are almost indistinguishable from the plane of focus even at pixel peep, while my soft mode is closer to a traditional larger CoC.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    If you enter the actual sensor pixel pitch, are calculated depth of field values more accurate?
    The pixel pitch is only used if you configure the CoC to be related to pixel pitch. There's a discussion about this in the manual here: http://www.lumariver.com/lrdof-manual/#toc18

    I've made some experiments and the setting I prefer is to indeed enter the pixel pitch and use the Max(Airy, Pixel) model, where the pixel pitch is used as a limiter on the lower end, 2.5x the pixel pitch, and the Airy disc is a limiter for the really small apertures at 0.5x Airy disc.

    What the circle of confusion should be and be based on is really a matter of taste (and therefore often resulting in lengthy forum debates), so I've made the app really flexible in configuration in this case. "Accuracy" in this context is not meaningful as you have decided what the CoC should be, and the app then calculates the result.

    There is an accuracy aspect though, and that is how well the thin lens model matches the actual lens construction. For ideal accuracy you should know the exact lens construction and have a precise model for that. It's 100 times overkill though for any reasonable distances. However in closeup it becomes more important, but this app is not intended for macro photography.

    Note that the app adds the lens distance (roughly the focal length), that is measures all distances from the film plane (just like real lens distance scales), not the lens nodal point. The standard DoF formulas provide values from the nodal point, so you may see a difference there from some other calculators that provide distances from the nodal. As focal length usually is very short compared to the focus distance in this case it's rarely noticed though.
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    It works for me(tm).
    Yes, I have it now - I'm using an iPhone 4S and the small screen means that the buttons are off the bottom. Scrolling the screen upward reveals them, thanks.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Still getting to grips with the tilt screen.
    One can start softly with the tilt screen. If you have live view / ground glass and shoot wide angles the workflow is really simple:

    1) estimate distance to the ground and set hinge distance to that
    2) look at live view and see how tall the tallest feature in the scene is, say it covers 50% of the height, adjust the span until it covers that amount, and you get an f-stop. If the scene doesn't have much height at all (say a seascape or something) you can even skip this and just use the app as a hinge distance table and shoot at the ideal aperture directly.
    3) set the tilt, focus on live view / ground glass at the middle of the tallest feature, set the f-stop and shoot.

    You don't need to use the focus distance / incline setting there as you focus manually. If you have say an ALPA with a HPF ring but no live view it can be nice to calculate the focus distance too though.

    Then you can add the remaining features to this workflow as needed. Setting a separate ground distance is useful for longer lenses where you'd want to put the hinge line a fair bit below ground level to avoid having to apply large amounts of tilt that makes the wedge span really narrow. In my Linhof system it becomes useful for say the 72mm and up (~50mm 135 equivalent)

    Then there's the camera tilt button which is there to compensate if tilting the whole camera. I almost never use that myself as I prefer to have a level camera and shift instead, and I think most tilt-shift users will do that.

    There's also a sharp/soft button here merged into one button for space reasons. The typical tradeoff would be to let tree tops be a bit blurrier if the scene is tight, that is choose a soft edge on the near/upper limit.

    The measurement modes are used if you want to measure angles instead of looking at the span directly on live view. This is typically useful for a bit closer distances where angles become a bit larger. For small angles it's hard to measure accurately, and much easier to see/measure on live view. The "span" measurement is the most useful, while "incline" and "hinge" is there for completeness but I don't expect them to be as much used.

    There are some issues around hinge parallax when measuring and looking at wedge span, which is discussed in the manual how you handle it. It's generally a smaller problem than one may think though.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    A great feature would be if users could share camera and less data they bothered to type in.
    And download the data already typed in by others, avoiding unnecessary duplication of effort.
    Then it would become a community tool, befitting the age of the Internet.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders

    Great app - nice work.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    My first reactions:
    - Wonderful. I finally have an app that calculates DOF in a way that I trust and makes sense! The Max setting is brilliant.

    - The hyperfocal info always on the bottom is a very nice touch

    - I think I understand what you are saying about the workflow using span and live view, but what about us poor souls with an IQ1XX who don't like fussing with LV? It might be good to have an area you could enter an "object distance" and the app would report back the height of the wedge at that distance. The Disto has the capability to read out height and distance in one reading, so it would be relatively easy to see if the tree fits in the wedge...

    Very nice implementation! I have to play around more with the Tilt area to get more familiar with its capabilities but it seems well thought out. Many thanks for the effort.

    Dave
    davechewphotography.com
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Thanks for the kind words. About the wedge height, do you really need it with the Disto, or could you just get away with the wedge span in degrees? That is you measure the span in degrees over that tree from the camera position and then you see that it fits? To get a correct incline and associated focus distance you need to take the hinge line parallax into account, meaning that if the hinge line is 2 meters below where you hold your instrument (you could measure directly with the phone too, but it's a bit awkward to aim compared to a disto of course) you need to aim 2 meters above the target for the upper and lower angles.

    I think the idea of wedge height is nice, but as the screen is out of button space I need to make sure that it's really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    My first reactions:
    - Wonderful. I finally have an app that calculates DOF in a way that I trust and makes sense! The Max setting is brilliant.

    - The hyperfocal info always on the bottom is a very nice touch

    - I think I understand what you are saying about the workflow using span and live view, but what about us poor souls with an IQ1XX who don't like fussing with LV? It might be good to have an area you could enter an "object distance" and the app would report back the height of the wedge at that distance. The Disto has the capability to read out height and distance in one reading, so it would be relatively easy to see if the tree fits in the wedge...

    Very nice implementation! I have to play around more with the Tilt area to get more familiar with its capabilities but it seems well thought out. Many thanks for the effort.

    Dave

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    Member AreBee's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    Some additional observations:

    1. The Show focus stack toggle works on my iPhone but not on my iPad mini - on the latter, the Stack button is always visible on the main screen.

    2. On the Tilt screen, the incline column values can be scrolled even when the column has been locked. This is true for my iPhone and iPad mini.

    3. Is it by design that the App does not auto-rotate between landscape and portrait aspect?

    4. "User interfaces today try to get rid of as many ok and cancel buttons as possible to reduce the number of clicks/taps required..."

    At present a user has to press the 'back' button in order to return to the main screen - four times in the case of creating a new lens entry. A 'close' button for nested levels greater than one would require fewer button presses. Just sayin'.

  27. #27
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Good point about using degrees on the disto. That (or the phone directly) would probably work fine. I need some field time!

    I figured you would have real estate issues adding an object height. Probably the way to do it would be a choice between incline or object height. Not easy!

    Dave
    Last edited by dchew; 23rd April 2016 at 01:37.

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Anders,

    Some additional observations:

    1. The Show focus stack toggle works on my iPhone but not on my iPad mini - on the latter, the Stack button is always visible on the main screen.

    2. On the Tilt screen, the incline column values can be scrolled even when the column has been locked. This is true for my iPhone and iPad mini.
    Hey Rob,
    I have a mini also, and the stack button appears. Might you have to option turned off in settings?

    The lock at the bottom of Incline fixes the wedge point either at the top (near) middle (PoF) or bottom (far) as you make other changes. It doesn't lock the incline column. I think that is by design.

    Sorry to respond for Anders but my guess is he is getting many questions right now!

    Dave

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Dave,

    I have a mini also, and the stack button appears.
    Toggle it off in the settings. Is the button still visible?

    The lock at the bottom of Incline fixes the wedge point either at the top (near) middle (PoF) or bottom (far) as you make other changes. It doesn't lock the incline column. I think that is by design.
    Ah, okay, I didn't appreciate that. Thanks.

  30. #30
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Dave,



    Toggle it off in the settings. Is the button still visible?



    Ah, okay, I didn't appreciate that. Thanks.
    Oops. I read your post backwards! Nope always there no matter what.
    davechewphotography.com
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Same issue here on an iPad Air running iOS 9.3.1 / Firmware 6.02.00

    i.e. Settings > Show focus stack button

    has no effect, the button is always displayed.

    Works fine on the iPhone.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Same issue here on an iPad Air running iOS 9.3.1 / Firmware 6.02.00

    i.e. Settings > Show focus stack button

    has no effect, the button is always displayed.

    Works fine on the iPhone.
    Issue confirmed, that's a bug. I'll fix it in the next update. Thanks for reporting.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    1) that's a bug, I'll fix it in the next update, thanks for reporting.

    2) This is by design. The reason is that the incline is disconnected from the other columns so locking it would make no difference so it would be a meaningless function. Instead I made a special lock button which is always on the near/far/PoF lock you can cycle which causes the incline to auto-adapt to keep near/far still. Overall the locks are less needed in the tilt screen, the hinge will only move if you change span *a lot*, in the typical workflow you can set all your tilt settings without locking. I still chose to keep locks to make the tilt screen similar to the main screen and I also think that it's a good learning tool to lock one parameter and see how the others change, for example if f-stop is locked span can still be changed, but not without changing hinge distance etc.

    3) Yes that is by design. For smartphones I think it makes sense, but for the tablets I probably should make it turnable at some point. The tablet support was added pretty late, hence the bug in 1). In the field I'm thinking most will be using a smartphone so I don't see it as a high priority feature at this point. However I noted that when adding tablet support I found myself playing around with the app more on my tablet than on my phone, so for playing around and learning the tool I guess tablet use may become pretty common. It is some work to implement the feature as the current dynamic layout requires that the screen is higher than wide to make good layout decisions, and that would have to be generalized.

    4) Yes that's a good point. Most my design effort has been put into the use of the Dof/tilt screens and which configurations you can set, while actually making the setting of configuration as effective as possible has not been a key priority. In that case I've just used the standard design patterns in the framework of how screens are interconnected and then it ended up that way. Breaking a framework design pattern is usually quite a big effort as the framework makes it easy to make things work the way the framework designers intended and as a side effect (intentional or not) hard to make it in any other way. As configuration is something you do seldom I won't put too much effort into making it as smooth as possible. As I see it the most important thing is that you can configure certain settings, then it's secondary that it can be made as efficient as possible.

    On the dof/tilt screens however it's a top priority that you can do things efficiently as that is what you are supposed to see of the app 99% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Anders,

    Some additional observations:

    1. The Show focus stack toggle works on my iPhone but not on my iPad mini - on the latter, the Stack button is always visible on the main screen.

    2. On the Tilt screen, the incline column values can be scrolled even when the column has been locked. This is true for my iPhone and iPad mini.

    3. Is it by design that the App does not auto-rotate between landscape and portrait aspect?

    4. "User interfaces today try to get rid of as many ok and cancel buttons as possible to reduce the number of clicks/taps required..."

    At present a user has to press the 'back' button in order to return to the main screen - four times in the case of creating a new lens entry. A 'close' button for nested levels greater than one would require fewer button presses. Just sayin'.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Thanks, very nice app (especially for the CoC flexibility). Just bought it.

    The Leica S has the DoF calculator integrated in the camera. Their CoC-Formula (which is not adjustable) apparently comes quite near to the one recommended by you. Funny thing is that the DoF tables, provided by Leica in their technical spec sheets for every S lens, are quite different. Apparently even Leica has not decided yet which formula they prefer
    Last edited by siddhaarta; 23rd April 2016 at 16:26.

  35. #35
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    Been thinking about the Tilt Span/Incline options:
    mm on sensor
    mm on LV
    % sensor H
    % sensor W

    Those last two might be useful, except as you switch orientation from portrait to landscape you would have to go into settings and change it every time. It would be nice to add the ability to quickly swap from % sensor H to % Sensor W. Perhaps if a 3-second press of the "span" button cycled through %H / %W when someone has chosen one of the two "%" options. Another possibility is a 3-second press that brings up a different pop-up to select one of the four options.

    Dave

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Thanks for the idea. I'll consider that for a future update! As I'm a ground glass user I've been used to working with the mm scale and then digital back orientation doesn't matter, but indeed with %w/%h swapping easily would certainly be useful.

    I've just submitted a version 1.0.3 with some minor bug fixes and the ability to import/export configuration via the clipboard, plus rearranging the scroller order for those that prefer a different order. I didn't implement a "cloud service" for configuration sharing/upload, it's quite much work, but with the import/export via the clipboard you can copy configuration between devices and even manually edit the configuration on a computer if you're daring.

    The update is already out for Android as Google Play has automated reviews for app updates, but Apple's App Store have manual reviews also for them meaning that it can take everything from a few hours to a few days until the update appears in the Store.

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Anders,

    Been thinking about the Tilt Span/Incline options:
    mm on sensor
    mm on LV
    % sensor H
    % sensor W

    Those last two might be useful, except as you switch orientation from portrait to landscape you would have to go into settings and change it every time. It would be nice to add the ability to quickly swap from % sensor H to % Sensor W. Perhaps if a 3-second press of the "span" button cycled through %H / %W when someone has chosen one of the two "%" options. Another possibility is a 3-second press that brings up a different pop-up to select one of the four options.

    Dave

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    By the way, it would be most helpful if some of you could rate the app in the app store. The reason I ask is that the stores uses the in-store ratings as one important factor to make the app visible or not when searching/browsing, and an app with no ratings stays relatively invisible. Actually, it seems like in terms of visibility it's better to have a bunch of bad ratings than none at all :-)

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    Nice app! But is the Leica S sensor size too weird to have in the list? 30x45mm, 6 pixels. Yes, it wasn't hard to add as custom.

    Do you incorporate diffraction? I'm usually less bothered by it than other calculators suggest, so I'm just as happy if it is ignored.

    --Matt

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The update is already out for Android as Google Play has automated reviews for app updates, but Apple's App Store have manual reviews also for them meaning that it can take everything from a few hours to a few days until the update appears in the Store.
    FYI, I got the update this afternoon from Apple App store.

    Dave
    davechewphotography.com
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Anders,

    Nice app! But is the Leica S sensor size too weird to have in the list? 30x45mm, 6 pixels. Yes, it wasn't hard to add as custom.

    Do you incorporate diffraction? I'm usually less bothered by it than other calculators suggest, so I'm just as happy if it is ignored.

    --Matt
    Ok, I'll add the 30x45mm size to the next update :-)

    As there's many different views on how circle of confusion should be set, for example to incorporate diffraction or not, I've left this up to the user to configure. You can choose to have a traditional CoC size only related to the sensor diagonal, or one related to pixel size, or indeed one related to airy disk (diffraction), or my personal favourite a max(airy,pixel). All with scale factors. This is explained in more detail in this section of the manual:
    http://www.lumariver.com/lrdof-manual/#toc18

    The default setting is setting CoC = airy disk diameter, which has the advantage that it's unrelated to sensor size and pixel pitch so it doesn't matter what camera properties you have. However if you do know your sensor size and pixel pitch you may gain from using a more advanced setting, as discussed in the manual.
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    I've added Dave's span unit swap feature plus the 45x30mm Leica S size in the pre-defined list in my development version. I'll sit tight for a few days before releasing an update to the stores though to see if it drops in any more stuff I need to fix/add.
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The default setting is setting CoC = airy disk diameter, which has the advantage that it's unrelated to sensor size and pixel pitch so it doesn't matter what camera properties you have. However if you do know your sensor size and pixel pitch you may gain from using a more advanced setting, as discussed in the manual.
    Read the manual? Oh dear

    When I was entering a custom camera, the pixel pitch in grey said 6, but the CoC calculator used 1 until I went back and entered 6 by hand. I like Max(pixel, airy), but can see plenty of arguments about what pixel multiplier to use. This calls for some experiments!

    Best,

    Matt

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Read the manual? Oh dear

    When I was entering a custom camera, the pixel pitch in grey said 6, but the CoC calculator used 1 until I went back and entered 6 by hand. I like Max(pixel, airy), but can see plenty of arguments about what pixel multiplier to use. This calls for some experiments!

    Best,

    Matt
    You pointed out a user friendliness mistake, the gray value is "placeholder example" and doesn't really mean anything just an example of what you could type in there. I should change that so it says 1um which is the actual value that is active if no value has been entered. Something for the next update.

    There's indeed many ideas on ideal pixel multiplier. I've settled for 2.5x, but 2x is also very common. In the end you want something workable, if you get just too much pixel peep perfectionism and set like 1x then the depth of fields will be so shallow it becomes hard to work with. On the other hand one could choose to have a super-perfectionist "sharp CoC" and a bit more relaxed "soft CoC" as they easily can be switched between at will in the main screen, so it depends on how you want to work it.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    BTW, I love having the two levels of sharpness selectable. A wonderful feature!


    Using my DoF laboratory, I agree that one can go crazy examining at high magnification and concluding that DoF is always almost zero. Backing off to a reasonable (1-1 or less) view gives numbers quite like yours. Oh, the target here is at 11 feet, more or less.



    --Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 26th April 2016 at 05:27.
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    . Oh, the target here is at 11 feet, more or less.

    --Matt
    I trust you have another on deck; that bottle is getting dangerously low.

    Dave
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    I trust you have another on deck; that bottle is getting dangerously low.

    Dave
    Hmm. Excellent point. Not to worry, though, it has many friends. But when I want a focus target, somehow I always reach for the Maker's Mark.

    Thank you for your concern ,

    --Matt
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  47. #47
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Anders,

    I'm going to go in a completely different direction: Here is an app where I have the following data captured for a shot:
    Lens
    Back
    f-stop
    lens focus distance

    Can you guess where I'm going? Just two more pieces of info, image number and x/y mm shift, and we've got everything we need to know for tagging and/or applying an LCC. What do you think about also using this app as a way to record image data in the field?

    Just one more button configured with a 3-second press that brings up a window for image number, x shift and y shift.

    Oh that and a way to record and export the information, but that's easy right??


    Dave

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    +1 for Dave's suggestion. I was on the point of starting a thread to ask how people take notes on shoots. It's something I am conscious I haven't got the hang of using a techincal camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Anders,

    I'm going to go in a completely different direction: Here is an app where I have the following data captured for a shot:
    Lens
    Back
    f-stop
    lens focus distance

    Can you guess where I'm going? Just two more pieces of info, image number and x/y mm shift, and we've got everything we need to know for tagging and/or applying an LCC. What do you think about also using this app as a way to record image data in the field?

    Just one more button configured with a 3-second press that brings up a window for image number, x shift and y shift.

    Oh that and a way to record and export the information, but that's easy right??


    Dave

  49. #49
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Yeah it was actually colorspace's thread about this that made me think:movements-captureone

    After several years of using this stuff I didn't have a good answer. Then I thought, "But maybe Torger does!"

    Quote Originally Posted by MILESF View Post
    +1 for Dave's suggestion. I was on the point of starting a thread to ask how people take notes on shoots. It's something I am conscious I haven't got the hang of using a techincal camera.

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    Re: New depth of field calculator app

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Yeah it was actually colorspace's thread about this that made me think:movements-captureone

    After several years of using this stuff I didn't have a good answer. Then I thought, "But maybe Torger does!"
    I still don't get why we can't get it as part of the backs firmware!!

    Peter
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