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Hasselblad X1D

tcdeveau

Well-known member
I have now read through this thread. So why is the 51MP sensor in a smallish body at US$9K with few lens choices today such a big deal over a 42MP sensor in an even smaller body at US$3K with tons of current lens choices?
It's a big deal for those who choose to use medium format or for those wanting to get into medium format. I use an H4D-40 as my primary landscape camera and am looking to upgrade at some point down the line. The idea that now one such as myself can get almost all the features of an H6d-50c in a camera a fraction of the size, weight, and price of an H6D-50c is pretty phenomenal. Most of my photography is landscape and involves travel to some degree...whether thats by plane or by car. I currently travel with the H4D-40 and an A7R, and the X1D would replace both of those.

The 42mp A7Rii vs 50mp 44x33mm medium format sensor issue (let alone 35mm ie D800E/D810/5DS/5DSR/A7R/A7Rii vs medium format in general) has been beaten to death so I'd suggest lets try to keep the thread focused on the X1D camera itself.

Regarding lens choices for the X1D, I just watched the livestream, and Hasselblad made it pretty clear they see this as the future. Lets give it some time and see what other lenses they announce in the next year before being too critical. As it seems they are paying some degree of attention to the forums and threads (I thought it was funny how they joked about people in forums asking about "selling kidneys" in the livestream), I do think it's important to talk about what lenses we would like to see and maybe we'll see them as a reality at some point.
 

synn

New member
I have now read through this thread. So why is the 51MP sensor in a smallish body at US$9K with few lens choices today such a big deal over a 42MP sensor in an even smaller body at US$3K with tons of current lens choices?
Because some of us like quality, not quantity.

 

Chris Giles

New member
What Synn said ^

The problem I had shooting MF for weddings was buffer amount and clearance speed, camera noise and low light AF ability.

Sort that and I might have a whole new setup in 2017.
 
Fast lenses are inevitably much bigger and heavier than slower lenses, and are not really in keeping with the form factor of X1D. A major design objective with the X1D was small, light and portable. The initial lenses are slower and smallish. I hope Hasselblad sticks with the plan. However, I suppose it may be possible to produce a "normal" f/2 lens that would not overwhelm the body. I have the HC 100 f/2.2 and its not huge.
I mean the 90 looks pretty big. And I haven't seen anyone mention that the H adapter is going to be a pretty long tube to make up for the flange distance. I bet it's similar in size to the 45mm, maybe a bit shorter. I think it's possible to make a fast native prime that doesn't overwhelm the body. I'm not asking for .95 here haha. Just something with some nice character wide open and a rendering that is pleasing for my clients. I think most Hasselblad lenses see the most beautiful people in the world (models), but as I've said before, sharper lenses aren't doing my clients any favors. That's why I love the Contax 80/2, the Nikon 58mm 1.4, the Zeiss 50/1.4 Planar and 50mm 1.5 C Sonnar. MFD needs some of that mojo. There are plenty of ultra sharp options out there, but no options that favor character over absolute resolution.
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
Thank you :)

So the upcoming XCD 30 mm f/3,5 will have superior MTF, so superior that it will outperform the actual HCD 28mm f/4.

Every guys worried about wide landscape superior IQ can sleep very well and start to save money. Not that much money after all it will be around 3K US$.
Sounds good. I'd like a bit wider though, for my square ultra-wide fetish.
The Hasselblad SWC is still the standard by which I measure all the others. :toocool:

G
 

algrove

Well-known member
Thanks all.

I have been a MF person starting 45+ years ago with a Hasselblad 500C. Every time I get out of MF, I regret doing so, thus I not without a MF today.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
I mean the 90 looks pretty big. And I haven't seen anyone mention that the H adapter is going to be a pretty long tube to make up for the flange distance. I bet it's similar in size to the 45mm, maybe a bit shorter. I think it's possible to make one that doesn't overwhelm the body. I'm not asking for .95 here haha. Just something with some nice character wide open and a rendering that is pleasing for my clients. I think most Hasselblad lenses see the most beautiful people in the world (models), but as I've said before, sharper lenses aren't doing my clients any favors. That's why I love the Contax 80/2, the Nikon 58mm 1.4, the Zeiss 50/1.4 Planar and 50mm 1.5 C Sonnar. MFD needs some of that mojo. There are plenty of ultra sharp options out there, but no options that favor character over absolute resolution.
This is a good point about the size of the adaptor. I attached the only pic I've seen of the H-X adaptor on the web so far. It's not small. It may still be in prototype form so the final form may change.

IMG_0567.jpg
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Exposure and color balancing- both could have been done a bit better.

Wouldn't it be better though if the size aspects are kept out of discussions here?

With the Pentax 645Z already in the market, this has been discussed ad nauseum already.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
This is a good point about the size of the adaptor. I attached the only pic I've seen of the H-X adaptor on the web so far. It's not small. It may still be in prototype form so the final form may change.
The adaptor looks to be a good 50-60mm in depth. I too had hoped for something smaller but looks like the HC lenses need that extra depth to maintain flange focal distance. That would probably limit me to only a few HC lenses or maybe only one..... the 100mm.

Victor
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
When I had my A7Rll I found that focus peaking never got me the accuracy that 100% magnification got me. I would be close but to get really in focus I needed magnification. Just me...... if you need peaking I guess its not there.

Victor
My opinion of A7RII focus peaking is similar. I have turned it off and use magnification instead. It works very well. IMO, that is a problem with Sony's implementation, not with focus peaking per se. E.g., focus peaking in Leica Q is very well implemented and is really helpful (it is combined with magnification).
 
V

Vivek

Guest
The adaptor looks to be a good 50-60mm in depth. I too had hoped for something smaller but looks like the HC lenses need that extra depth to maintain flange focal distance. That would probably limit me to only a few HC lenses or maybe only one..... the 100mm.

Victor
It has got to be less than 60mm.

The camera registry of Hasselblad H System = 61.63mm
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Let's stay on the X1D. Folks comparisons can come later when we have some real images in hand. We have seen this sensor and I actually have tested it in a Leaf Credo back which is posted under the review section. Might be a good time to read it again. As far as sensors go this sensor is tops in its class. This X1D is more about function and features which comparing them is fine let's just get to images later
 

epforever

Member
My intent was not to piss on anyone's parade, but provide my own opinion about this new camera. That's allowed on these forums, is it not? My opinions are my opinions, and not those of a paid reviewer, manufacturer, sales rep, or pro photographer operating under an NDA. I'm coming at this from several perspectives:

  1. I'm a medium-format shooter (although I recently sold my Pentax 645Z). I've been shooting medium-format since 2010 when I acquired an H4D-40. Since then, H4D-50, Phase One DF/IQ180, Leica S2, Leica S Type 006, and 645Z. In there somewhere is a Cambo and an Alpa (with the IQ180). I've come to know the strengths and weaknesses of these cameras far too intimately, and have learned considerably from experts on GetDPI.
  2. I also shoot 35mm and spent many years using Nikon DSLRs, up to and including the D810. Once again, over the period starting with the D100, I learned what those DSLRs could and could not do. I took a short foray into Leica territory with the M9 and M Type 240, but that was brief. My main (and only) full-frame 35mm camera now is a Sony a7RII.
  3. I'm an electrical engineer by education and profession and take more than a passing interest in the hardware and software/firmware technology embodied in all of these wonderful instruments. As an electronics gadgeteer, I've experimented with various of these hardware and software/firmware technologies to understand them better and become a more knowledgeable buyer and user.
  4. I'm almost 69 years old and have less patience than I once had for corporations to "eventually" incorporate new tech in their products. My impatience is not limited to cameras. I'm just as impatient with Apple for example.

My comment about IBIS and or VR/OSS/IS had more to do with my own use of, and experience with, using those features. While I once could hold a camera steady in my hands and shoot reliably at 1/30 sec. or slower, I'm unable to do that now on a consistent basis (without IBIS/VR/OSS/IS). And with a 50MP camera, it may be unrealistic to think that anyone can reliably shoot at slow shutter speeds and get sharp results. I have no doubt that the ISO performance of the X1D will be stellar. It uses the same sensor as the 645Z, and my experience with that camera showed almost noiseless results at ISO 6400. Yes, the X1D is spec'ed to ISO 25,600, but I doubt whether any serious travel shooter will push it that far.

My expectations of technology companies like Hasselblad are not "absurdly out into the stratosphere" or "nonsensical". All of the technological goodies I've referred to require no new inventions or breakthroughs. The Leica SL, for example, has a 4.41MP EVF to view a 24MP image. The 645Z has an articulating rear LCD. IBIS/VR/OSS/IS are knowns, not unknowns. Perhaps there were design constraints that prevented Hasselblad from incorporating those technologies into the X1D. Perhaps it was cost-to-manufacture translated to price and margin. Perhaps it was timing. I don't know. I was simply opining on their absence, not bashing the camera.

Having said all that, I'll likely buy one. I'm attracted to new tech and enjoy the learning experience. And for the record, I'm very happy. :D

Joe

P.S. I use my real name in online forums, not a pseudonym. I don't say anything online that I wouldn't say to the person's face. I don't bash or troll.

Joe -- apologies if I offended. I wasn't trying to bash you personally. I was just disappointed and frustrated that Hasselblad comes out with a seemingly great product, and so many people seem to enjoy nit-picking it to death. I don't include you in that camp, especially after your follow-up post; your opinions are absolutely valid, and I hear what you're saying. I simply felt that, with f/3.5 lenses, no mirror slap, and usable images up to, say, ISO 6400, the Hasselblad seems like a terrific travel camera. If it included VR/IS, a larger sensor (as some seem to want), faster lenses, etc., it would be bigger and heavier, and then people would complain about that. I think they chose the right middle ground. VR/IS would indeed be nice if it didn't make the whole setup larger and heavier.

I have nothing to hide. The nickname I chose when I signed up here was based on a long-ago email. My name is Ethan Pines; website is www.ethanpines.com. Until 10 minutes ago I had never filled out any of my user info here on getdpi, as I've been overly busy for about the past decade and have had higher priorities. I, too, try to maintain civil discourse in online forums. Sorry if I got snarky in that last post.
 

DougDolde

Well-known member
I might have missed it but what about auto sensor cleaning ? If it doesn't have some sort of mechanism for that the sensor will be a lot harder to clean than on a detachable back
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
I might have missed it but what about auto sensor cleaning ? If it doesn't have some sort of mechanism for that the sensor will be a lot harder to clean than on a detachable back
In case there is no auto sensor cleaning, consider: the smaller the flange focal distance, the easier is it to clean the sensor. I.e., it is quite easy to blow away dust from the Sony A7rII sensor. I assume it should be easy on other mirrorless cameras as well. IMO, anything that a self cleaning system can fix, can be easily cleaned manually with a blower.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
I really do agree..... it should be easy to clean the sensor since its pretty big and not prohibitively deep.

Victor
 

synn

New member
before making such claims it would help to learn a little bit about white balancing

Before assuming things and generally being a douche, it would help to ask if I had done white balancing.
Yes, I did. On the same spot. Manually.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
I have nothing to hide. The nickname I chose when I signed up here was based on a long-ago email. My name is Ethan Pines; website is www.ethanpines.com. Until 10 minutes ago I had never filled out any of my user info here on getdpi, as I've been overly busy for about the past decade and have had higher priorities. I, too, try to maintain civil discourse in online forums. Sorry if I got snarky in that last post.
Ethan ... I seriously enjoy your hard work !
 

tjv

Active member
Dear Hasselblad?

As the XD lenses are focus by wire and do not have distance / DOF scales on them, will the interface menu on camera have an option to dial in a set focus distance electronically and give indication of DOF at the set aperture? I think this feature is essential for many shooters considering the lack of the above. Hopefully this info would also be discretely displayed also in the EVF.

Thanks!

TJV
 
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