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Hasselblad X1D
- Thread starter cerett
- Start date
erick.boileau
Member
The X1D is a mix of 2 world : MF quality and portability
I'd like to see 2 kind of photos , portrait / fashion (let's say wide open) and street photography with difficult lights
thanks for the link
A few random thoughts both serious and frivolous, regarding this new camera and some of the responses on this thread … most of which comes from my having been a long time Hasselblad user, and my experiences with Hasselblad over decades of involvement. I say this only because many here have questions that probably stem from limited or no use of Hasselblad H products.
I can see a scenario that goes something like this, especially after their misguided missteps in the recent past:
Hasselblad's new boss: "Gee guys, can't we do something fashionista? Maybe a fancy new shoulder bag, or what about using a good looking spokesperson from the ephemeral fashion end of things since we have always done well with fashion shooters?" Engineers and designers: "Sure boss, as long as you don't fuk with our camera."
So, no final dusting the body with Peacock feathers, and no Narwhale grip
Traditionally, Hasselblad has been innovative and fast to announce those innovations, then frustratingly slow to implement. Despite being a AAA type personality, over the years I found this to be a preferable since when it was finally ready, it was usually worth the wait and worked better than expected. Before critics pounce, there are exceptions to anything, and some have had horrible experiences just like with any make system.
Over a decade, from the H2D-22 to a H4D/60 and 8 different HCD/HC lenses, I never had to become back slapping, cigar smoking, whiskey drinking good friends with Hasselblad reps or service people because I rarely needed them. I had one lens failure … a HC100/2.2 that I bought with my first H camera and used almost daily for over a decade. The AF motor got slowish/noisy and they replaced it quickly and inexpensively. I never had to check each lens when I bought it, never had to examine each one for sample variation. Never had to send a new lens back.
Subjectively, I've always liked Hasselblad's "True Color" solution … and even Ming's initial and hurried samples show a similar organic look and feel with natural looking color rendition. While many companies may use this sensor, it is up to each of us to evaluate which "secret sauce" implementation of that sensor we prefer. IMO, Ming's pics bode well for the final iteration of the X1D camera, because in the end the only reason to get this camera is IQ you "subjectively" prefer … in a much easier to carry form.
While I've not had the pleasure of holding this new camera, I have faith that the UI and ergonomics will be splendid. The H has always been a well respected MFD body, so there is no reason to suspect they will dump all that intelligent industrial design experience with this camera. In a very short time, I came to "play the H like a musical instrument" and never had to dumpster dive into a complex menu designed by a dyslexic gamer.
Some details of this camera will mean more to some than to others.
For me dual cards is one such feature, particularly if the cards are SDs. Anyone that shoots stuff that a client could sue you for not delivering understands why
That Hasselblad chose to use Nikon flash protocols is genius. Wish Leica had done the same with the S. Lighting innovations that first hit the market are always Canon and Nikon. My S probably will never be compatible with Profoto's TTL and HSS features on my B1 and B2 lights, the X1D looks like it will be compatible out of the box (TBD for sure).
Auto Focus: for me the priority is accuracy. Yes, it has to reasonably fast with-in reasonable expectations of a larger sensor camera. However, accuracy is a direct component of IQ … which, again, is the reason to have such a camera.
After semi-retiring, but still shooting for money and barter, I left Hasselblad for lack of pressing need for such a big gun (H4D/60), and more consideration for ease of transport as I age. This camera makes me reconsider that move.
- Marc
I can see a scenario that goes something like this, especially after their misguided missteps in the recent past:
Hasselblad's new boss: "Gee guys, can't we do something fashionista? Maybe a fancy new shoulder bag, or what about using a good looking spokesperson from the ephemeral fashion end of things since we have always done well with fashion shooters?" Engineers and designers: "Sure boss, as long as you don't fuk with our camera."
So, no final dusting the body with Peacock feathers, and no Narwhale grip
Traditionally, Hasselblad has been innovative and fast to announce those innovations, then frustratingly slow to implement. Despite being a AAA type personality, over the years I found this to be a preferable since when it was finally ready, it was usually worth the wait and worked better than expected. Before critics pounce, there are exceptions to anything, and some have had horrible experiences just like with any make system.
Over a decade, from the H2D-22 to a H4D/60 and 8 different HCD/HC lenses, I never had to become back slapping, cigar smoking, whiskey drinking good friends with Hasselblad reps or service people because I rarely needed them. I had one lens failure … a HC100/2.2 that I bought with my first H camera and used almost daily for over a decade. The AF motor got slowish/noisy and they replaced it quickly and inexpensively. I never had to check each lens when I bought it, never had to examine each one for sample variation. Never had to send a new lens back.
Subjectively, I've always liked Hasselblad's "True Color" solution … and even Ming's initial and hurried samples show a similar organic look and feel with natural looking color rendition. While many companies may use this sensor, it is up to each of us to evaluate which "secret sauce" implementation of that sensor we prefer. IMO, Ming's pics bode well for the final iteration of the X1D camera, because in the end the only reason to get this camera is IQ you "subjectively" prefer … in a much easier to carry form.
While I've not had the pleasure of holding this new camera, I have faith that the UI and ergonomics will be splendid. The H has always been a well respected MFD body, so there is no reason to suspect they will dump all that intelligent industrial design experience with this camera. In a very short time, I came to "play the H like a musical instrument" and never had to dumpster dive into a complex menu designed by a dyslexic gamer.
Some details of this camera will mean more to some than to others.
For me dual cards is one such feature, particularly if the cards are SDs. Anyone that shoots stuff that a client could sue you for not delivering understands why
That Hasselblad chose to use Nikon flash protocols is genius. Wish Leica had done the same with the S. Lighting innovations that first hit the market are always Canon and Nikon. My S probably will never be compatible with Profoto's TTL and HSS features on my B1 and B2 lights, the X1D looks like it will be compatible out of the box (TBD for sure).
Auto Focus: for me the priority is accuracy. Yes, it has to reasonably fast with-in reasonable expectations of a larger sensor camera. However, accuracy is a direct component of IQ … which, again, is the reason to have such a camera.
After semi-retiring, but still shooting for money and barter, I left Hasselblad for lack of pressing need for such a big gun (H4D/60), and more consideration for ease of transport as I age. This camera makes me reconsider that move.
- Marc
erick.boileau
Member
No not exactly or not only, if it is a camera to shoot in studio portrait or fashion there is no needs for portability, the target of this camera seems to be the quality of MF for another kind of photos , street , events , weddings, traveling ...
With respect to Ming Thein, I always have a problem when somebody is paid by a company to review their product. There is an inherent bias that is inevitable. Sadly, there are very few reviewers that are free of the yoke of sponsorship. Amazon now has an army of such reviewers who profess impartiality with the disclaimer 'I was provided with a free sample for an unbiased review'. No way such reviews are totally independent of the influence of the manufacturer. You know that to be the case because NONE of these actually trash the product. A well known pro photographer told me that if he is given a product to review and he does not like it, he writes to the company and they never publish his review, which means that the ONLY reviews he then publishes are positive and product friendly.
Having said that, I do like what I read in MT's review. The only thing I have a little trouble digesting is his comparison with the Sony "I certainly think it’s no slower or less responsive than say a Sony A7RII in use – the bits that are slow we can live with". I don't know what he means by that. The A7RII has AF that is as fast as my Canon 7D2, shoots at 5 fps and exhibits virtually no shutter lag.
Still, I think these are good times for MF in general. In all probability the X1D will appeal to many and will be very popular, although I would still wait till Photokina before I order one for myself. By then we would know everything there is to know about it and possibly the competition.
" … because in the end the only reason to get this camera is IQ you "subjectively" prefer … in a much easier to carry form".
Doesn't "easier to CARRY form" suggest the applications you outline?
I will disagree with the studio application you rigidly imply as not needing to be smaller or lighter. Smaller/lighter has more advantages than just "portability". It helps with endurance. I shoot 80% of my in-studio people/fashion/sports work hand-held tethered to a computer and using lighting where flash duration is more important than shutter speed. I do so to spontaniously explore different perspectives, to move with the subject, to quickly move closer to further away, etc. 8 hours of that with a traditional MFD system is back breaking, hard work … as evidenced by my latest MRI:facesmack:
If I got this camera it'd be for that reason first, closely followed by easy to transport/use on location jobs, the obvious bonus would be serious travel photography … I'd use it for weddings/events only because I had it, not because I bought it for that purpose. Not many wedding businesses can responsibily support the expense of MFD on their own. Street is a possibility, but if that was my primary objective, I'm not sure a leaf-shutter camera with slowish lenses would be at the top of my shopping list.
- Marc
erick.boileau
Member
Sunny street photography
PeterA
Well-known member
Try it and see - it is a free download. IMO - you have to use it because it delivers the best file from Hassleblad's raw- as well as provides the best lens adjustments for Hasselblads HC lens line as well as V series - not to mention tethering.
It is a different offer to C1 and LR - which try and replace PS functionality as well as provide decent DAM capability. Phocus doesn't try and do everything - what it does it does very well.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Treat it as the raw converter vs 75% of the image processor and phocus works well. I have to use it with my cfv16 and it works well creating tiffs for Photoshop. Capture one goes further but other than the inconvenience of having to use another converter it works well.
bab
Active member
Joey
It's testimonial advertising this is what 90% of Hasselblad's ads have been, there website is full of the same thing just different photographers with loud music holding the cameras.
This authenticates the product from a person so it's more believable than coming from the manufacture.
The newest iteration of Phocus, 3.0, is significantly improved in terms of the UI and its basic functionality. As noted by others, it is NOT trying to be a replacement for PS, like LR and C1. It is a pretty basic raw converter. While its feature set is more limited than LR and C1, Phocus is still a very well designed and functional piece of software. This is NOT at all like the typical raw converters from Japanese camera manufacturers like Canon, Sony, Fuji, Sigma, etc. It's very easy to learn. It is also in my experience quite stable. The biggest shortcoming is the lack of effective highlight and shadow recovery tools. It has the tools, but they are just not effective compared to LR and C1. The color editor in Phocus is also not nearly as powerful as the one in C1. 3.0 does have adjustment layers with limited tools, but I am sure these will increase over time.
LR also works quite well with Hasselblad files. At the margins, Phocus does do a better job with color and tonality with SOME images, but with others the differences are VERY subtle and LR does allow you make certain adjustments with the raw file that you can't do in Phocus. I have a number of Hasselblad files where I much prefer the LR version to the Phocus version.
DougDolde
Well-known member
I took a look at Phocus and all I can say is UGH. Maybe Phase One will come out with a mirrorless camera. I'd rather lug my heavy XF kit than use Phocus.
Lightroom would be an option if I could avoid the cataloging function and work in sessions. I guess that leaves working in ACR as the only option I'd want to use.
I still make my own catalog like I did when shooting film. I use Bridge to create a folder with just one image and a subfolder for the raw files. Guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Lightroom would be an option if I could avoid the cataloging function and work in sessions. I guess that leaves working in ACR as the only option I'd want to use.
I still make my own catalog like I did when shooting film. I use Bridge to create a folder with just one image and a subfolder for the raw files. Guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
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ErikKaffehr
Well-known member
Hi,
The data base based idea of Lightroom is it's raison de étre. If you don't want to use that, you would not use LR. LR is simple ACR with a data base interface, and possibly a better GUI.
Best regards
Erik
The data base based idea of Lightroom is it's raison de étre. If you don't want to use that, you would not use LR. LR is simple ACR with a data base interface, and possibly a better GUI.
Best regards
Erik
ErikKaffehr
Well-known member
Hi,
Ming Thein writes about the X1D supporting EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) in the X1D. It seems that he missed that the X1D is a leaf shutter camera.
Now, it may be possible to combine the EFSC implementation of a sensor in combination with a leaf shutter to shorten response time, but Ming Thein's writing actually indicates that the X1D actually has a mechanical second curtain, which I think it clearly lacks.
Let's put it this way, I am not that impressed by Ming Thein's posting. Sorry for that…
Best regards
Erik
Ming Thein writes about the X1D supporting EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) in the X1D. It seems that he missed that the X1D is a leaf shutter camera.
Now, it may be possible to combine the EFSC implementation of a sensor in combination with a leaf shutter to shorten response time, but Ming Thein's writing actually indicates that the X1D actually has a mechanical second curtain, which I think it clearly lacks.
Let's put it this way, I am not that impressed by Ming Thein's posting. Sorry for that…
Best regards
Erik
Arjuna
Active member
Very simple: with a leaf shutter, normally the shutter closes before the exposure begins, but this would not be required for EFCS. Then the shutter opens up - equivalent to the first curtain of a focal plane shutter. After the exposure time is complete, roughly, the (leaf) shutter closes - equivalent to the second curtain of a focal plane shutter. So implementing EFCS with a leaf shutter should not be a problem.
siddhaarta
Member
Didn't understand his comment on EFSC either.
I downloaded the FullRes photos at his site and must say that I am a bit disappointed about the high noise level at base ISO (all photos are 100 ISO). Maybe its because of ARC or Flickr sharpenig algorithms. One has to wait for appropiate Raw conversions.
etrigan63
Active member
The promotional videos i have seen seem to support the idea that the X1D uses a combination of electronic shutter and leaf shutter. There is a lack of terminology here that is confusing some people. The use of the word "curtain" is incorrect. Based solely on my observation of promotional videos only, it seems to me that the X1D starts the exposure electronically and then uses the leaf shutter to end the exposure. If it did not, the routine would be
- Press the shutter release.
- Leaf shutter closes.
- Leaf shutter opens.
- Exposure begins.
- Leaf shutter closes.
- Exposure ends.
- Leaf shutter opens again.
Using the electronic shutter, the sequence goes something like this:
- Press the shutter release.
- Exposure begins.
- Leaf shutter closes.
- Exposure ends.
- Leaf shutter opens.
The first method would have two blackouts while the second only has one.