S2 and my impressions.

[peterv]

Now, a birdy told me something really big is coming from Hasselblad ... totally up there in the stratosphere, and is something no one is expecting in their wildest dreams.

I'm trying to confirm, but that damned company is like Fort Knox when it come to info. If it's even close to true, the H3D-39 will become a semi-pro camera priced as an entry level kit.

Holy-moly ... stay tuned.

If you never hear from me again, black opps from Sweden took me out :ROTFL:

Ahh, rumours...

Maybe black opps from Sweden told the birdy to tell you about this Super Secret Mother of all Cameras. Maybe the Scandinavians/Japanese are just panicking because of the stellar IQ the S2 is going to deliver. Just speculating here, just like you and your trusted birdy

 

[robmac]

Hum, I thought I heard some guys in black Nomex whispering in Swedish by some black-out C130 at the local airbase the other day. Looked like they were passing thru -- headed East.

Now if your little birdy wasn't smokin' the good stuff, all I can say to the various significant others out there is hide the credit cards, call the bank manager and kill the paypal accounts. My fingers are starting to twitch just envisioning what will happen in the used sub-39 MP market if said event should come to pass.

Now, a birdy told me something really big is coming from Hasselblad ... totally up there in the stratosphere, and is something no one is expecting in their wildest dreams.

I'm trying to confirm, but that damned company is like Fort Knox when it come to info. If it's even close to true, the H3D-39 will become a semi-pro camera priced as an entry level kit.

Holy-moly ... stay tuned.

If you never hear from me again, black opps from Sweden took me out :ROTFL:

 

[LJL]

I'd have to totally agree that the 35mm DSLR segment is overwhelmingly larger than MFD, and it has grown/is growing exponentially, mostly to the general public that shoot below 800, never test the buffer and use kit lenses. However, I seriously doubt "Mom" is going to spring for a Leica S2 in place of her $800. digital Rebel to shoot the kiddies ... unless her cookie jar bank is the size of Mt. Everest. Wedding shooters using the big meg 35mm DSLRs are a tiny, tiny minority, and even fewer use MFD. The $2,700. Canon 5D/5DII is GOD in weddingville ... and remember, wedding shooters need two of everything. Pros that use a 35mm DSLR do so for specific reasons that the S2 doesn't deliver. If the S2 goes after the R8/9 folks, who's going to buy the R10?

Marc,
I was not suggesting "mom" was going to be the target market at all. What I have seen happening, is that as more folks get and use DSLRs, even then entry level stuff, there is a growing pressure on the working pros to start looking for ways to differentiate what they are doing and shooting from what "everybody" thinks they have and can do. We already talk about the reasons for the higher MP counts, bigger files, etc. A lot of 35mm shooters have to be thinking about what they will do to separate themselves, in order to promote their business more. This is why the 5DMkII, and the A900 are drawing a lot of shooters. As soon as "mom" starts shooting a 5DMkII or A900, what is going to be the leverage for the wedding guy? (I know it is NOT that simple and obvious, but really, in places it is. I have already started to see wedding guys advertising that they shoot MF as part of their packages in order to promote a better portrait, or whatever.)

That was really what I was getting at, and the growing ownership of more and better DSLRs will create that upper movement you mention. I have shot a number of events where folks are showing up with Canon 1-series, or Nikon D3 cameras, and these are just the "spectators" in the crowd. One guy was even bragging to me about "his is bigger than mine" on the MP side of things. That does NOT bother me, and I tried to politely dismiss his jabs by saying that I just use the right tool for the job, and a 25MP DSLR does not matter when you need 8-10fps for action in poor light. That sentiment on his part will not stop him and others from looking at the S2, or moreso having a lot of other pros look at the S2 to differentiate themselves and their products. That IS sort of what we are talking about at the heart of things in many ways. I just see the growing DSLR market creating more pressure to push some folks upward toward MF....it is with me in part, and the other part is that I do want the better IQ if I can get it for what I want to do. The S2 ain't gonna be seen shooting polo by me, but I would use it for the product shots....provided they can find any sponsors anymore in this economy

On the rest of things, I think we are agreeing. And with respect to Hassy maybe dropping their prices on things like the H3DII-39 to fend off the S2.....not hard for me to take that path either

LJ

 

[ptomsu]

Now, a birdy told me something really big is coming from Hasselblad ... totally up there in the stratosphere, and is something no one is expecting in their wildest dreams.

I'm trying to confirm, but that damned company is like Fort Knox when it come to info. If it's even close to true, the H3D-39 will become a semi-pro camera priced as an entry level kit.

Holy-moly ... stay tuned.

If you never hear from me again, black opps from Sweden took me out :ROTFL:

Looking forward to this

Maybe it is a FF 6x6 Back and H like 6x6 body, just to redefin the square again. Given the current MP counts this sensor would then have approx. 80MP or so

Anyway this would be a nice thing, but I could not afford it

But it would make the H Series and their backs much cheaper :clap:

 

[carstenw]

Maybe it is a FF 6x6 Back and H like 6x6 body, just to redefin the square again. Given the current MP counts this sensor would then have approx. 80MP or so

Hasselblad would have to re-release all their HC lenses with larger image circles to get this working, since the current ones cover 645 (and two don't even, the 28 and the latest zoom), so I consider this extremely unlikely. It would effectively mean an entirely new system.

I consider it more likely that there will be a special on some particular camera/back combination, or a new high-end back, with price drops down the line.

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Now, a birdy told me something really big is coming from Hasselblad ... totally up there in the stratosphere, and is something no one is expecting in their wildest dreams.

I'm trying to confirm, but that damned company is like Fort Knox when it come to info. If it's even close to true, the H3D-39 will become a semi-pro camera priced as an entry level kit.

Holy-moly ... stay tuned.

If you never hear from me again, black opps from Sweden took me out :ROTFL:

Great idea - during the worst banking crisis and economic downturn in a century, launch a super high-end product in to an already small MF market segment and watch while your company crashes and burns :thumbdown: Still, if you price it high enough, perhaps you only have to sell the prototype to make some money...

MF digital is a hothouse plant where the doors to cold reality have already been thrown open by high-end "35mm" dslrs. Perhaps if a new uber camera was priced the same as the current top end, with trickle down price cuts for the rest of the range, it might work; otherwise it makes no sense in this market.

Quentin

 

[carstenw]

Now, a birdy told me something really big is coming from Hasselblad ... totally up there in the stratosphere, and is something no one is expecting in their wildest dreams.

What, an attractive H3DIII, maybe all-black?

 

[JohnH]

Guys, guys,

Six solid pages of [mainly] theoretical marketing and possible [and actual] technical issues/features. And only three images.

Gear junkies, all of you.

Um - and so am I - altho not in this direction. Waiting to get my feet wet - so to speak - in MFDB - but not S2. However, the cycling and re-cycling in the S2 threads is very entertaining.

And there are some very interesting grains amongst the chaff - and chaffing.

Enjoying this all - somewhat bemusedly.

[We need a smiley eating dollar signs, I suggest, just to remind Guy when he gets too close to opening up his wallet to buy more gear].

:grin:

John

 

[Guy Mancuso]

LOL Leica hopefully is not counting me. Unless business picks up not many Pro's will be jumping on it.

 

[robmac]

I 2nd the smiley chomping $$.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Need to find one of those. Be nice to have around here

 

[robmac]

Or how about a more complex derivative of Marc's idea - a smiley in plane (evil grin in place) dropping a napalm canister on a pile of money? Could be a flash banner across the top of the MF forum screen...

Whenever a manufacturer comes out with new uber-kit, you could add that firm's logo to the side of the plane.

 

[LJL]

Guys, guys,

Six solid pages of [mainly] theoretical marketing and possible [and actual] technical issues/features. And only three images.

Gear junkies, all of you.


:grin:

John

John,
So true, but there is also the "problem" that there are no images to be sharing from this new kit beyond what has already been published. It sure would be great discussing and comparing the output with other things, but nothing there. In that absence, we are left with creative speculation, and a heavy side-order of wishful desire, followed by a dessert of business bitters.

One thing for sure, there is a lot of interest, both positive and skeptical over this new offering, and that is good for folks trying to think about direction, kit choices, etc. The more scenarios tossed out there from a good variety of folks, the less surprises many of us may see later.

LJ

 

[Guy Mancuso]

LOL but we are having fun and that is what counts. What is interesting and the part I like is the diverse opinions and thoughts. We all sit in different places in the world and i get great enjoyment with "just hanging out with the guys" ( famous phrase). ladies welcome of course . Just a old school phrase

 

[cmb_]

Guy - did you get a chance to use the S2 lenses with manual focus, if so how was the feel?

 

[arashm]

I have to Agree with Guy
I really enjoy reading this forum.
115 intelligent, mature, well written posts.
Thank you all for the great conversation.
am

 

[TRSmith]

I always learn from the vast experience of those who post in threads like this one. I appreciate the naysayers and doom predictors as much as the starry-eyed fanboys. Both sides shade in some details that combine to give a "whole" picture.

Unfortunately, as far as the system itself goes, I haven't been able to glean much more than what I already knew from Photokina. No sample images, no word on price. My enthusiasm is beginning to wane. Due in part to the dismal economy. I think Leica made a very timely decision to develop this camera when the decision was originally made. Alas, very bad luck for them for it now to be introduced during a depression.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy - did you get a chance to use the S2 lenses with manual focus, if so how was the feel?

Great question . The manual focus is very nice and when using AF it gets you there and you can take over. Now the part I am still unsure of because the demo did not lend itself fully to what i wanted to do
Was I wanted to turn off the AF and i did not see anything externally for that like a AF/M switch. Now maybe I missed something with that but I want that kind of control. I'm afraid but not sure it is a menu option and we need a better answer on this. I will see if I can figure that out but the throw was leica smooth and you can have different screens also. Maybe David can answer the manual focus only control or if someone remembers this part. Maybe the new function button could do this part.

 

[iiiNelson]

115 intelligent, mature, well written posts.
Thank you all for the great conversation.
am

I completely agree with this post and while I have absolute no real interest in buying the S2 it does interest me from a technical standpoint. From a business standpoint I still think the R10 makes so much more sense provided you already have an established base of R system owners. Like many others I see the S2 more as a 35mm --> MF "bridge camera." I really don't see a reason they couldn't have positioned the R series into that "upmarket" role given the already higher market prices for Leica over competing Canons, Nikons, and other FF competitors. Just all my opinion though. Seems to be in the minds of some pros though as well to some extent who are at the very least concerned about changing systems to something that already has some obvious shortcomings - namely cost, no tethered options, and established service infrastructure. Those seem to be the recurring themes.

I have learned more about it here then on the L forum. People tend to be more mature and more readily accept criticism (or at least concerns) of Leica products here. I found myself just closing the browser tab on the discussion over there. Anyway the product sounds interesting but barring a mega millions win... probably not in my personal future.

 

[georgl]

I'm even more curious about the 30-90 vario instead of the 24mm. It offers most focal lengthes but it's quite fast and tiny in comparison to the 35-90 from Fuji. I've handled it minutes after I visited the Leica booth at Photokina - it's huge, it doesn't cover 645, it doesn't work without digital correction, it's slow, it's heavy and costs 7k$...

But maybe that's also the answer to the 24mm-distortion... Huge lenses with normal focal length a f5,6-f16 - you don't seriously expect major differences between a 6k$-Leica/Zeiss or 2k$-Mamiya/Fuji/Whatever... But more demanding situations (open aperture, corners of 645, extreme focal lengthes, varios) demand more sophisticated lens-designs/manufacturing-technologies. Or these lenses really will cost 10k$...

Guy, I remember the DMR-bible - I'm sure Leica does that, too. You alone propably sold them >50 DMRs - they should give you a golden S2! Seriously Mr. Kaufmann, do you listen?

P.S.
Was nothing said about the resolution of the display? Guy, you mentioned S-lenses with 72mm filter diameter, which lenses are those, I didn't notice at photokina!?