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Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

Junk Bond

Member
I understand for some clients the extra 4 years of warranty and unlimited actuation's plus loaner will make a big difference. For me personally, I'm not going to be putting that type of mileage on my equipment and looking at the cost difference between just the backs (being an XF user already) it's about $11,000. For that I get power sharing, hdmi, wifi, and some nice software feature upgrades. For me, that is what is frustrating. There is such a premium for features that should be standard.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I understand for some clients the extra 4 years of warranty and unlimited actuation's plus loaner will make a big difference. For me personally, I'm not going to be putting that type of mileage on my equipment and looking at the cost difference between just the backs (being an XF user already) it's about $11,000. For that I get power sharing, hdmi, wifi, and some nice software feature upgrades. For me, that is what is frustrating. There is such a premium for features that should be standard.
Agreed! If the IQ1 100mp had all the features/warranty of the IQ3 100mp, but had the same lower price of the IQ1 100mp that would be a great option to pick. But isn't this just saying that you wish the IQ3 100mp was less expensive? I can definitely understand that. I wish Macallum 18 had the finish of Macallum 25 at the price of Macallum 18.

Actually, I just want any Macallum. I didn't get much sleep last night! :ROTFL:
 

Christopher

Active member
Agreed! If the IQ1 100mp had all the features/warranty of the IQ3 100mp, but had the same lower price of the IQ1 100mp that would be a great option to pick. But isn't this just saying that you wish the IQ3 100mp was less expensive? I can definitely understand that. I wish Macallum 18 had the finish of Macallum 25 at the price of Macallum 18.

Actually, I just want any Macallum. I didn't get much sleep last night! :ROTFL:
True, but there is still Macallum in both and while there might be Phase One in both backs, the IQ1 is really crippled. In addition I find 1 year warranty a bad joke. We don't need 5 years but at least the more (for Europe) normal 2/3 years...
 

Junk Bond

Member
Agreed! If the IQ1 100mp had all the features/warranty of the IQ3 100mp, but had the same lower price of the IQ1 100mp that would be a great option to pick. But isn't this just saying that you wish the IQ3 100mp was less expensive? I can definitely understand that. I wish Macallum 18 had the finish of Macallum 25 at the price of Macallum 18.

Actually, I just want any Macallum. I didn't get much sleep last night! :ROTFL:
I hear you Doug. All I'm saying is instead of sticking the 100 in the older outdated IQ1 body that is physically limited from providing features that really should be included in all new Phase products introduced (power sharing, wifi, hdmi), why not not leave it in the IQ3 and limit it's abilities through software. This would also allow customers to purchase upgrades without obsoleting an entire back.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
I'd not picked up on the warranty thing.

A 1 year warranty on a $33k digital back is a disgrace. Phase One seriously need to reevaluate this.

Is there even an option to "upgrade" the warranty?
 

MrSmith

Member
I'd not picked up on the warranty thing.

A 1 year warranty on a $33k digital back is a disgrace. Phase One seriously need to reevaluate this.

Is there even an option to "upgrade" the warranty?
this 1 year warranty just doesn't make sense to me. it suggests they don't have confidence in their product, and then you look at the price?
It's definitely a piss-take.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I'm in the market/mood to upgrade my 180 to 100mp. I no longer use a tech cam and have been shooting nightscapes with the A7r II and want better coverage. There's many things the IQ3-100 offer that I either no longer need or just not interested in but was willing to pay when it was the only game in town. Now I'm no longer sure the IQ1-100 is available. It appears I'll keep the same tools I've been using with the 180 with the addition of much longer shutter times and a boost in ISO. What I'll need to learn is the upgrade path.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
When I bought my IQ150 and traded away from the IQ260 that I had before, I consciously chose a cheaper option of the 150 vs 250 as things like wifi support simply sucked and TBH none of my MFDBs had warranty issues outside of the first week (or actually on delivery).

With the newer IQ3 series there are some more nice to have features like the clip/exposure map & HDMI that I wouldn't mind having but the rest don't matter much to me for day to day shooting on both XF and tech camera. However, I'm not sure that they are worth $10k+ (to me).

Like Don, I'm thinking that this might hasten my move to the 100mp back. Of course the question is what does it take to change and whether to keep my current IQ150 & buy IQ100 vs a trade.
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
I'm in the market/mood to upgrade my 180 to 100mp. I no longer use a tech cam and have been shooting nightscapes with the A7r II and want better coverage. There's many things the IQ3-100 offer that I either no longer need or just not interested in but was willing to pay when it was the only game in town. Now I'm no longer sure the IQ1-100 is available. It appears I'll keep the same tools I've been using with the 180 with the addition of much longer shutter times and a boost in ISO. What I'll need to learn is the upgrade path.
to me they have removed features which are pretty valuable - obviously the price is pretty steep.

Power sharing ... on several occasions I have seen my back battery drain down to the point of needing to replace it. This of course usually happens as I get towards the end of a shoot and I need 10 to 15 more minutes. Sometimes it is when the light is perfect. I don’t need to pull the battery because the body battery is still usually at 80% or better. Very helpful.

The wifi coupled with Live View and camera controls on an iPhone 6s+ is something I don’t think I can live without. I find myself managing composition and focusing from the iPhone screen most of the time. I have left the world of autofocusing on my XF for most of what I do ... despite how good it is, it is just too quick to zoom in on the phone screen and nail focus perfect every time. despite the issues with the focus stack tool and lack of an effective way to use autofocus to set the near and far points, with Live View on the IQ3 100 and an iPad or iPhone, it’s incredibly easy and very precise to setup and run a focus stack sequence. I also control the camera from the phone most the time, easier than switching to the back controls and for me (vertically challenged) easier than seeing the top of the camera controls.

I have on several occasions used the camera very low or very high, and using the iPhone makes this pleasurable as I’m standing by the camera, not kneeling/crouching, or not need my aluminum 2 step ladder with me.

I wish there was a “focus” mode to live view, where the camera would open up for precise focusing. I’ve found I get the best results when I open up the lens to focus when setting up a focus stack, or when I’m trying to focus precisely on a specific item in the scene.

Also looking at the list of difference, is that list a DT bundle (are they throwing in a few things, like the card reader and tech camera cable?) Seems some of what is there isn’t from Phase ...
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
The list looks about right for someone buying a new XF3-100 camera outfit vs just the back or an upgrade. Most of the goodies listed at the end of the list don't come with upgrades typically.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Chaps -

Are the CMOS 100MP back shift issues only related to the the wide angle tech lenses? I'm considering going for the IQ1 100 - it would make a lot of sense for me I think.

I'm using the APO Digitar 5.6/120 on my CAPCam, more often than not with substantial tilts, swings & shifts, typically in the 500-600mm focal range.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Kind regards,


Gerald.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
The 120mm APO digitar N is pretty much hitting the sensor straight on given the distance of lens elements to the sensor. I wouldn't expect to see any of these artifacts unless you really shifted/tilted to the image circle extremes and even then it's unlikely to be anywhere close to the effects from a much closer wide angle lens.

if you are talking about the macro version or shooting macro on a tech cam then the lens/back distance will be even longer so less extreme angles for the light hitting the sensor.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
The 120mm APO digitar N is pretty much hitting the sensor straight on given the distance of lens elements to the sensor. I wouldn't expect to see any of these artifacts unless you really shifted/tilted to the image circle extremes and even then it's unlikely to be anywhere close to the effects from a much closer wide angle lens.

if you are talking about the macro version or shooting macro on a tech cam then the lens/back distance will be even longer so less extreme angles for the light hitting the sensor.
Thanks Graham for the quick response. Much appreciated.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
BTW, the whole issues with wides on the CMOS, IMO is a bit over stated. See images below.

All taken with 32 Rod, IQ100, 12mm of left shift. before and after LCC.

Images are a bit out of order, but it's easy to tell which is which.

No other image work done here, just a straight LCC conversion applied to the file.

It's quite apparent that before the LCC is applied there is a color shift and loss of saturation. I am using the CF on the 32mm as IMO light fall off is too much other wise.
The LCC does a very good job of bringing back the color and saturation level to be very close to the middle of the shifted image, which is not effected by the shift.
The gains, over CCD, are the fact that noise levels are nominal to neutral which would not be the case with CCD, this is ISO 200 for the test, and CCD would not being to have as much color and details left on a shift this far past base ISO, (from my experience) and CCD at 200 would not very nominal shadow gain over noise on the shifted image.

Best case is rent and test with your environment but the quality of the shifted images is quite good in most situations.

Paul C
 

Attachments

The gains, over CCD, are the fact that noise levels are nominal to neutral which would not be the case with CCD, this is ISO 200 for the test, and CCD would not being to have as much color and details left on a shift this far past base ISO, (from my experience) and CCD at 200 would not very nominal shadow gain over noise on the shifted image.
Upgrading towards a CMOS sensor is definitely a wise move. CCD is "obsolete" in many ways (for me).
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
The list looks about right for someone buying a new XF3-100 camera outfit vs just the back or an upgrade. Most of the goodies listed at the end of the list don't come with upgrades typically.
Correct. This is for new purchases. Upgrades have a different set of accessories (along, obviously, with a different price), which has always made sense to me; there isn't much incremental value in the third Phase One Rolling Case someone ends up with.
 

f8orbust

Active member
Is there any IQ180 --> IQ1 100 upgrade pricing yet?
P1 haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in the past when it comes to upgrades, but I'd be really surprised if there was no path. Don't think they'll use the MP count as a % discount mind you.

That said, they could argue the IQ1 chassis is 'old tech' and so, rather than an upgrade, IQ1 -> IQ1 is a crossgrade (i.e. the price that they quote you makes you cross). Naturally, this would cost you more than an upgrade.

Would be surprised if they allowed an upgrade (downgrade ?) from an IQ2XX body to the IQ1-100, but kudos to P1 if they do.

Since P1 are now in the business of sticking newer sensors in older bodies, how about a P-100 ? Might be able to afford that version.
 

Paul David

Member
I wonder how much R&D effort went into crippling the IQ3 100? To go back to the car analogy, it's like shipping a fully equipped car and then having the dealer remove pieces to sell it for a lower price. Extra work to artificially lower price, rather than offering a better value on the original product does not produce value.

There are new entries into MF at MUCH lower prices than P1, but the cropped frames compared to the IQ3 100 (and my IQ 180) are deal breakers for me. But it is only a matter of time before we see 40 x 54mm mirrorless bodies.

I can't tell you how disappointed I am that PhaseOne has chosen to waste its R&D to cripple a great product instead of delivering a 100MP mirrorless body at a fair price.

Paul


I'm obviously biased, but I also think this is hard to view as anything but positive for the consumer.

For eight months there was only one shipping 100mp option. As of recently (AFAIK) Hassy is shipping theirs so there are two. Now there are three. Each with different price points, features, software, lens sets etc. If you consider that the two Phase One options can also be purchased in an H mount then there are five options.

More choices for the consumer I'd view as a positive.

But... haters gonna hate :).
 
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