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Thread: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

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    Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    With all the exictement about the new 33x44 50mp systems options, it made me questioning myself as what the real gain to expect vs the sony 24x36 42mp for architecture shot.

    Probably a bit more DR, a bit more sharpness ... but my question is how much more?

    I know lenses is a part of the key, so let,s try with a similar system on both:
    Can anyone could share, a real life architecture shot comparing for exemple:
    - Sony A7RII + canon 17TSE /// VS /// 33x44 50mp(any of them)+24 tse

    Thanks

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    I had a comparison between 5DSR + 17TSE vs 44x33 50MP + 23HR: link

    Gerald did a comparison between 24TSE and 23HR there: link

    Lens is the most important factor here regarding corner sharpness. The Rodenstock wide angles are definitely sharper in the corner, but would require LCC correction to remove color casts in the corner.

    Regarding your question, I believe the A7R2 + 17TSE combo is good enough for almost any kind of work (unless you don't want to get yourself caught with a small camera when you are shooting multi-million dollar estates for your clients).

    Also, the A7R2 + 17TSE via Metabones adaptor solution does not allow back shift stitching so you'll need to work around parallax sometimes. With a technical camera you have the ability to shift the digital back instead of the front element of the lens to do seamless stitching without parallax.

    I personally advise against the digital back + 17TSE via Alpa 12 FPS solution because it's complicated, heavy, bulky, requiring extra batteries and still doesn't support back shift capability. You can't shift the Rodenstock wide angles with the Alpa 12 FPS either, which means you'll need to take double the equipment if you need to use both systems.

    A Chinese knock-off company has successfully converted the 17TSE and 24TSE lenses into Alpa mount ready for technical cameras which perfectly enables back shift capability without parallax issues, and that means you no longer need the Alpa 12 FPS: link
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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post

    I believe the A7R2 + 17TSE combo is good enough for almost any kind of work (unless you don't want to get yourself caught with a small camera when you are shooting multi-million dollar estates for your clients).

    get a cambo actus - it is the perfect solution for this problem and as a benefit you get the ability to stich by moving the camera.....

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Thanks voidshatter for all those links ...
    But choosing the 17tse on the A7RII vs the 24tse on the 33x44 (same field of view), then we could talk about what the sensor size bring to the party and not the lens.

    Anyone own all this camera/lenses ?

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Nothing beats in convenience, speed and price a Canon TSE lens / FF body combo, nothing. Image quality wise, a body with a 433 sensor will win by a small margin for sure. As usual, it's up to your pocket and very personal desires.
    BTW, the 17TSE looks has mermerized more than one client of mine.
    Eduardo



    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    Thanks voidshatter for all those links ...
    But choosing the 17tse on the A7RII vs the 24tse on the 33x44 (same field of view), then we could talk about what the sensor size bring to the party and not the lens.

    Anyone own all this camera/lenses ?
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    OP
    Ming Thein has an article on his site discussing your 2 formats with his opinions. Watch out he's now a Hasselblad Ambassador.

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    "A7R2 + 17TSE" vs "44x33 + 24TSE": they both share the same angle of view for single exposure but if you stitch with both then "A7R2 + 17TSE" provides 11mm angle of view in 35mm format while "44x33 + 24TSE" provides 15mm angle of view in 35mm format. I'm afraid I don't know such a comparison so far.

    "5DSR + 17TSE" vs "44x33+ 23HR": they both share the same angle of view if you only count for single exposure.

    To compare 17TSE vs 24TSE (both on the A7R) see this thread: link

    24TSE is generally sharper in the corner than 17TSE; however Canon's quality control is below the standard of Rodenstock, hence you could expect a poor copy of the 24TSE to perform on par with the 17TSE just like shown in the link above.

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Nothing beats in convenience, speed and price a Canon TSE lens with a FF body combo, nothing. Image quality wise, the GFX will win by a small margin for sure. As usual, it's up to your pocket and very personal desires.
    BTW, the 17TSE looks has mermerized more than one client of mine.
    Eduardo
    Well that was true ... but now with the new fuji...you'll be able to do the same with a 33x44 sensor.
    And so my question, is what do i gain in reality.

    Anyone who own a 17+24 a Sony a7rII and a 33x44 50mp to do a test ?

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    Well that was true ... but now with the new fuji...you'll be able to do the same with a 33x44 sensor.
    And so my question, is what do i gain in reality.

    Anyone who own a 17+24 a Sony a7rII and a 33x44 50mp to do a test ?
    Ming changes from the 810 to Hassy and he explains why. He also used the A7Rii and 645Z among others.

    https://blog.mingthein.com/2016/02/22/the-switch/

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Most likely in this forum, I'm among the less qualified to answer your question, but I'll give it a shot.
    I do believe you'll gain in image quality. Not a lot but I'm sure it would be mensurable. The 433 sensor will stress the whole lot of the image edges plus you won't have as much mils to shift or tilt. I'm sure the TSE lenses will pass with flying colors when shifted very moderately. In my experience with FF and any of both a shift of 5 mils is usually enough to frame correctly in interior shots. The 433 will probably need 2 or 3 mils more. We're talking 8 mils of shift out of 12. In my opinion, probably it still be a "safe" shift (f11 of course).
    I still use a trusted and amazing 6D. But waiting for the "right" Sony when Hasselblad and then Fuji salute the world photographers with these awesome cameras. For me, DMF starts at 48X36, so these new cameras are not my dream cameras.
    What am I going to do? The Fuji GFX especially is immensely seductive. If the price is over $6K usd (most likely), without doubt and without second thoughts, next year I will get the latest, meanest Sony A7 camera. A9?
    Over 35 year experience as a pro, gives me the confidence to follow this hunch.
    Hope this helps.
    Eduardo



    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    Well that was true ... but now with the new fuji...you'll be able to do the same with a 33x44 sensor.
    And so my question, is what do i gain in reality.

    Anyone who own a 17+24 a Sony a7rII and a 33x44 50mp to do a test ?
    Last edited by Uaiomex; 22nd September 2016 at 14:03.

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Maybe a mix of using both cameras side by side can be helpful too. I love to use my 5DsR and the TS-Es (17, 24, 90) plus the Contax PC-Distagon 35 for architecture. But sometimes I wish for smaller gaps between the available focal lengths. And when I want to go wider than 17mm I have to stitch and cope with parallax errors. Using the same lenses on the Fuji GFX and 5DsR will result in a perfect lineup of focal lengths (in 35mm-equivalents, calculated for cropping the Fuji to 3:2):

    14mm, 17mm, 20mm, 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, 74mm, 90mm. All at 50 MP. The only gap is around 50mm.

    I don't know how practical it will be to switch cameras. But I like the idea. Of course when shift adapters for the Fuji GFX for other MF-Lenses would start to ship, it would not be necessary to do this any more.

    Marc
    Last edited by marc aurel; 23rd September 2016 at 01:30.

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Beyond megapixels, I think that an important factor is also the image aspect ratio and the usable resolution from each system in the final print.

    I shoot both of these systems but for different reasons. The Sony is more 'portable' when I travel but whenever I can I much prefer shooting with my Phase One back as 4:3 is more harmonious for my view of the world than 2:3 typically is.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    Probably a bit more DR, a bit more sharpness ... but my question is how much more?
    Probably not. Sharpness and DR are likely to be the same. The gains are to be found somewhere else.

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    Re: Need help: 33x44 50mp vs 24x36 42mp

    Hi,

    Personally I sort of switched from MFD to A7rII but I have never been an MFD freak. For shifts I use a Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII and HCam Master TS II with the Canon 16-35/4L. The Canon 11-24/4L is also said to have a very large image circle.

    For tilts I additionally use two Yashica/Contax zooms, the 28-85/3.3-4 or the 35-135/3.3-4.5. These two lenses give just a few mm of shift but work very well with tilts.

    What I have seen is that the MFD stuff I used, Hasselblad V-series, and the Sony A7rII are pretty close in image quality, with the Sony having an advantage with on the wide angle side and also in dynamic range.

    The main advantage of the Sony stuff is flexibilty and weight. I like shooting with the Hasselblad P45+ combo, but it would be hard to come up with an advantage.

    Well, one advantage of the Hasselblad 555/ELD is viewfinder brightness when shooting outdoor, but the A7rII works better in the dark.

    Personally, I wouldn't go with MFD, but you really need to find out what works for you.

    Personally, I see the camera as an imaging device. I nowdays often shoot while flying and can fit the complete A7rII kit within 10 kg carry on limit, with some tricks. I could do that also with MFD, but with MFD I also carry a 24x36 kit, for ultravide, macro, telephoto work and also for rapid shooting.

    Best regards
    Erik

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