Neat video showing behind the scenes at Phase One

[GrahamWelland]

Ok, definitely one for us Phase One fan boys but here's SilverFleet Capital's video about Phase One:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5N-Eaj6VqWM

 

[f8orbust]

That must be the first corporate video I've watched from beginning to end. Oddly enjoyable.

A couple of takeaways i) Loved the spin trying to explain why the business had been sold - would have been far simpler to simply say 'we were running out of cash', and, ii) At least we now know what's happened to Leaf, they're henceforth to be known as Phase One's 'Industrial Division'. Such a shame - wish they had gone to a VC when they ran into financial difficulties - might have avoided being subsumed, and subsequently consumed, by P1. RIP Leaf !

Jim

 

[MILESF]

Loved the spin trying to explain why the business had been sold - would have been far simpler to simply say 'we were running out of cash'

It's quite common for Private Equity firms to provide 'growth capital' to owner managers/founders to enable them to expand and grow the business faster and further than they might be able to do on their own. Perhaps taking full control of Mamiya. It also enables owners to take some money out of the business whilst continuing to be involved and to benefit from the further growth made possible by new capital. It often happens that owner/managers 'roll' their gains and re-invest some or all of the proceeds in the business. That said I've no idea about what happened with Silverfleet and the Phase shareholders/owners.

There are firms that invest in distressed businesses that are running out of cash but that's generally accompanied by management changes (eg new CEO), closing sites, cutting costs and radical restructuring.

 

[f8orbust]

No doubt, but in P1's case they were literally running out of cash - i.e. house rich but cash poor - as their (public) financial records show(ed).

 

[algrove]

Keep in mind Leica took an infusion also.

 

[dougpeterson]

No doubt, but in P1's case they were literally running out of cash - i.e. house rich but cash poor - as their (public) financial records show(ed).

Their public finances show increasing revenue and increasing and healthy profit for many years in a row now (back to around the financial crises of 2008). For companies with strong and growing revenue, strong and growing profit there are many solutions for short term cashflow other than outside investment. Phase One was not forced into this deal; it went in very willingly.

 

[Mgreer316]

Thanks for that link Graham. I have a love/hate relationship with Phase One. I love the image quality I get when...

1)...my camera back doesn't freeze
2)...what I want in focus actually is in focus
3)...the system is ready to capture another image
4)...the image is properly exposed from my TTL connected Profoto B1

Maybe it's just me, but I would think that with all those resources going into R&D, to claim to be the best photography company in the world, and to charge as more than anybody else in the world for your products, your products should work better and be more reliable than a $200 point and shoot. But that's just me. However, I'm seriously considering picking up a Canon 5DS R to carry with me because I never know if my Phase system is actually going to perform that day. And if it does, I'm not confident that it will keep performing throughout the shoot without some gremlin popping up that I've never seen before. More than once I've had to ditch the Phase body (when I shot the 645DF, I now shoot the XF) because it stopped functioning and complete the shoot with my Canon 5D MKIII (which never fails even though it's been used and abused for years).

The the behind the scenes stuff is very interesting. But as I watched it actually got me a little angry because with it reveal these problem with their system should NOT exist. You're extremely high priced and low volume. That should be a recipe for outstanding quality control and reliability. I have no issue with the quality control. Products are well built and solid. However, reliability? What exactly are they doing R&D? They release TTL flash capability in the XF for Profoto and it sucks! Capture to capture reveals varying exposure levels in a controlled studio where everything is locked down. Camera on camera stand photographing a mannequin (which obviously doesn't move). Camera is triggered from a tethered PC. Yet, the power levels from the Profoto go up, down, back to where it started, etc. Did ANYBODY test this thing before they released it? Done. Rant off.

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled forum participation activities.

 

[GrahamWelland]

I've owned a couple of Ferraris and all I can say is were they the best cars in the world? At the time I'd have argued pretty much yes. Were they 100% reliable? Definitely not. 99% of the time they were great, but that 1%, which many owners never experienced, were awful.

I HATED my 645 DF/DF+ and P+/IQ backs because there was a fundamental issue with back/body communication. I've wanted to throw the body, although not back, over the cliff when they locked up. On a tech cam the backs have been perfect (for me).

As regards the XF, I've had no issues but I'm not a commercial shooter nor using flash so my life is possibly charmed. I'm not an apologist for Phase One either. If there are problems with the Profoto integration then I'm sure that since they are partners that Phase One will fix it eventually.

 

[Paul2660]

After having used the XF now on both a 260 and IQ100, even at the latest firmware there are quite often issues that occur that disrupt the photography. To name a few:

1. lock up when zooming to 100%, requires a power off/on cycle
2. lock up when attempting to move around a file viewed at 100%, (I have pretty much given up on moving around a image at 100%, just double tap in and out on areas I want to check)
3. Strange issues during tethering, where a file is stuck on the camera and will not transfer over to the PC (have checked both cable and tried different PC's) still get this issue
4. Inconsistent ES shutter behavior on XF. Sometimes after changing shutter speed the XF fires the Focal other times it doesn't
5. Problem where at power off the mirror doesn't appear to go all the way down as you see a greyed looking view in the viewfinder
6. Still have intermittent lock up issues, which require a power off/on cycle

other issues that occur, but don't cause as much of a problem

10 to 12 sec's each time you turn on the camera before you can actually shoot (IMO should have been fixed by now has always been an issue)
As a card gets over 50% full, images take considerably longer to go from blur to view able on the LCD of back. They stay in a strange semi blurred state
With a card over 50% full attempting to go back to the very first file can take a long time due the problem mentioned above

The files are great, image wise but the combination to me is still not a smooth process as I feel it should be by now in the development cycle.

Paul C

 

[DrakeJ]

Thanks for that link Graham. I have a love/hate relationship with Phase One. I love the image quality I get when...

1)...my camera back doesn't freeze
2)...what I want in focus actually is in focus
3)...the system is ready to capture another image
4)...the image is properly exposed from my TTL connected Profoto B1

Maybe it's just me, but I would think that with all those resources going into R&D, to claim to be the best photography company in the world, and to charge as more than anybody else in the world for your products, your products should work better and be more reliable than a $200 point and shoot. But that's just me. However, I'm seriously considering picking up a Canon 5DS R to carry with me because I never know if my Phase system is actually going to perform that day. And if it does, I'm not confident that it will keep performing throughout the shoot without some gremlin popping up that I've never seen before. More than once I've had to ditch the Phase body (when I shot the 645DF, I now shoot the XF) because it stopped functioning and complete the shoot with my Canon 5D MKIII (which never fails even though it's been used and abused for years).

The the behind the scenes stuff is very interesting. But as I watched it actually got me a little angry because with it reveal these problem with their system should NOT exist. You're extremely high priced and low volume. That should be a recipe for outstanding quality control and reliability. I have no issue with the quality control. Products are well built and solid. However, reliability? What exactly are they doing R&D? They release TTL flash capability in the XF for Profoto and it sucks! Capture to capture reveals varying exposure levels in a controlled studio where everything is locked down. Camera on camera stand photographing a mannequin (which obviously doesn't move). Camera is triggered from a tethered PC. Yet, the power levels from the Profoto go up, down, back to where it started, etc. Did ANYBODY test this thing before they released it? Done. Rant off.

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled forum participation activities.

I now have about 3k clicks on the XF, there are the occasional freezes and with the new firmware I also got a capture error once which needed a restart. However, a reboot fixes all of the above. Hasn't gone haywire... yet. Right now I'm rather confident I am able to bring only the XF to a shoot without a backup, but I still bring a Nikon just in case. Murphy's law and all that.

The profoto remote is excellent I must say, haven't yet been in a situation where I actually need TTL, I imagine in those situations that I would still need a Nikon for quick autofocus for moving subjects I can't direct which would require TTL.

But I still agree, these kinds of gremlins really should not be present in such an expensive product.

I wrote about the autofocus a couple of weeks ago or so, feel free to share your experience. I've noticed some behaviours which can be anticipated and adjusted accordingly. My hit rate is pretty good even with shallow DoF close up. If you are in semi-low-contrast situations double tapping could help for instance.

 

[Chipcarterdc]

No problems here with the XF-100 with the profoto flash, either in manual or TTL.

I did - for the first time - have some strange lockups while shooting. It happened perhaps 2-3 times over the course of 4-5 hours. Turning it on and off resolved it each time, but still: shouldn't happen at all.

The startup time is something I've been ranting about for a while. 10-12 secs is totally unacceptable.

 

[Transposure]

I guess I will chime in here too...
But, before I do, it is interesting that the townhall XF gripe session has landed on the "Neat Video.." Thread....LOL

Anyway...

I am a commercial shooter and my setup is the XF with a Credo 60 back. I use Profoto strobes 100% of the time that I use the XF. I use the XF Kit about 10-20% of the time I shoot, with a Canon 1Dx handling the other 80-90%.

Lockups:
I have had the camera lockup in the middle of shooting many times. Just shooting along at a good pace and bam, lockup. Pressing the shutter button does nothing. Turn camera off and back on and it usually fixes the problem...after waiting for the startup time. I may have had to detach the back A few times as well. I can honestly say that lockups have happened every other time I have used the camera, approaching every time. Quite a nuisance. And more importantly, this should not happen at this price point...period.

Start-Up time:
I agree that the startup time is too long. But, it gets worse than that. I use a 125GB card so that I don't have to change it as often with the file sizes that are more than twice as big as the 1Dx (in which I use a 64GB card). I have found that after the camera is ready to shoot at the typically experienced long startup time, there is an additional period I have to wait while the card is read (flashing red indicator on the XF top screen). This time is much less with smaller cards. Also a nuisance.

In contrast, with 200,000+ releases on the Canon 1Dx, not a single lockup or problem, and nearly instant startup time. I realize it's apples and oranges to some degree, but at least the lockups shouldn't exist on the XF in my opinion. It is very annoying to tell a client, "hold on, my camera is playing games".

 

[kscott]

After having used the XF now on both a 260 and IQ100, even at the latest firmware there are quite often issues that occur that disrupt the photography. To name a few:

1. lock up when zooming to 100%, requires a power off/on cycle
2. lock up when attempting to move around a file viewed at 100%, (I have pretty much given up on moving around a image at 100%, just double tap in and out on areas I want to check)
3. Strange issues during tethering, where a file is stuck on the camera and will not transfer over to the PC (have checked both cable and tried different PC's) still get this issue
4. Inconsistent ES shutter behavior on XF. Sometimes after changing shutter speed the XF fires the Focal other times it doesn't
5. Problem where at power off the mirror doesn't appear to go all the way down as you see a greyed looking view in the viewfinder
6. Still have intermittent lock up issues, which require a power off/on cycle

other issues that occur, but don't cause as much of a problem

10 to 12 sec's each time you turn on the camera before you can actually shoot (IMO should have been fixed by now has always been an issue)
As a card gets over 50% full, images take considerably longer to go from blur to view able on the LCD of back. They stay in a strange semi blurred state
With a card over 50% full attempting to go back to the very first file can take a long time due the problem mentioned above

The files are great, image wise but the combination to me is still not a smooth process as I feel it should be by now in the development cycle.

Paul C

I frequently do shoots where I fire 1000 shots over a 7-8 hour period of time, and fortunately haven't had a single lock-up with the XF and IQ3 100. That said, my 645DF+ and IQ280 seized up frequently.

I hadn't yet tried the AirTTL functionality in update 3, so upgraded last night and set up a test to see if I experienced what you did. Unfortunately, I did. I shot a sequence varying aperture from f/2.8 to f/16 at ISO 100, 1/125th allowing AirTTL to to adjust flash to get the right exposure. Most of the shots were overexposed, and were increasingly overexposed as aperture and flash power increased. I then shot the same sequence on a 5DSr with Canon AirTTL trigger and while there was the usual small exposure variations from shot to shot, everything more or less worked correctly. I even updated the firmware on the B1 to make sure that everything wasn't an issue on the Profoto side of things. I would never actually use AirTTL for the type of work I shoot with the Phase One, so not a real issue for me. But it is disappointing that the feature didn't work as expected, especially when I've never had an issue with this on Canon, a platform that's an order of magnitude cheaper.

 

[Wayne Fox]

My XF hasn't locked up once, although admittedly being a landscape only shooter I my number of captures isn't that high. I've only used the XF with an IQ3 80 and IQ3 100.

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

I have been using the XF since August 2015, first with the IQ3-80 and then in February with the IQ3-100. I have about 4,000 exposures with the latter combo.

I haven't had any lock-up issues on the XF since last January when a firmware upgrade fixed the problem for me. So far the XF/100 combo has functioned very well, but like others who have commented, I'm a nature/landscape guy, fairly low volume, and rarely use flash. I do need to double-tap the autofocus in poor light or low contrast situations. And yes, positive though I am about the gear, the start-up time is too long.

As I'm now on my way to shoot polar bears in Churchill, Manitoba, the XF will get a good work out in very cold and damp weather. I will have my Sony as back-up (I never go somewhere expensive without back-up) but I'm reasonably confident it won't be needed. If I'm right, look for big white fluffy pix on this forum. If I'm wrong, look to the Sony forum!

 

[hcubell]

I have been using the XF since August 2015, first with the IQ3-80 and then in February with the IQ3-100. I have about 4,000 exposures with the latter combo.

I haven't had any lock-up issues on the XF since last January when a firmware upgrade fixed the problem for me. So far the XF/100 combo has functioned very well, but like others who have commented, I'm a nature/landscape guy, fairly low volume, and rarely use flash. I do need to double-tap the autofocus in poor light or low contrast situations. And yes, positive though I am about the gear, the start-up time is too long.

As I'm now on my way to shoot polar bears in Churchill, Manitoba, the XF will get a good work out in very cold and damp weather. I will have my Sony as back-up (I never go somewhere expensive without back-up) but I'm reasonably confident it won't be needed. If I'm right, look for big white fluffy pix on this forum. If I'm wrong, look to the Sony forum!

I would expect that you would be fine shooting in cold, relatively damp weather with an XF. however, if you were to shoot in windy, rainy conditions, I think there is a high probability that either the camera body, the back or the lenses would fail. Just my experience.

 

[Bryan Stephens]

I HATED my 645 DF/DF+ and P+/IQ backs because there was a fundamental issue with back/body communication. I've wanted to throw the body, although not back, over the cliff when they locked up. On a tech cam the backs have been perfect (for me)..

Well if I remember correctly, there were a couple of instances on the Maine workshop where you almost lost your back of a cliff and into the Atlantic.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Well if I remember correctly, there were a couple of instances on the Maine workshop where you almost lost your back of a cliff and into the Atlantic.

I believe that I can attest to the fact that I have fast twitch muscles when it comes to my ability to catch a plummeting MFDB

 

[Bryan Stephens]

I believe that I can attest to the fact that I have fast twitch muscles when it comes to my ability to catch a plummeting MFDB

That and the fact that your capture cord for your Alpa had some magical powers