Having second thoughts about the X1D...

[peterm1]

As exciting as the X1D sounds, the rational side of my brain is wondering if I should cancel my pre-order. I know everyone's needs are different, and I thought the X1D would fulfill my needs (and let's face it, wants...), but as I go through a pro/con list for me, I am not so sure anymore it makes sense to keep my pre-order open.

I currently use the Sony A7RII and the Leica Q, both of which have their strengths and weaknesses, of course. The Leica Q is just plain fun to use and inspires me to go out and shoot, while the A7RII produces really nice files with the resolution I need for prints that I sell, and is very versatile, but it is not much fun for me to use and requires a fair amount of post-processing for me to really get the look I like. The X1D seems to combine the pleasurable ergonomics and simplicity of the Q with a file quality that in many cases surpasses the A7RII, but there are some real trade-offs for me...

Most important pros of the X1D for me:

Resolution (I sometimes crop and often have to print big, around 40" x 60" or so and sometimes bigger).
Dynamic Range
Color Fidelity
Ergonomics - compact size/weight of the system, simple menu system, comfortable to hold and carry
Lens quality reported to be good based on some early scattered reports

Most important cons for me:

Cost (although I have saved enough money for it from my sale of my 645Z if I also sell my Q or A7RII)
Unproven quality and reliability
Limited lens selection and lenses are relatively slow (this should improve in 2017 though)
Somewhat slow in operation (assume it will improve with firmware but is unlikely to ever be very fast)
No image stabilization plus handheld shooting with slow lenses in lower light means resolution takes a hit (I shoot handheld often)
No tilt screen (not huge but I do find this helpful sometimes on my Sony A7RII)
ISO range is somewhat limited compared to, say, the 645z I used to have, although it will probably be good enough for me most of the time.

I shoot a wide range of subject matter, mostly outdoors, never in a studio (see Peter Mendelson Photography for examples of my type of work). Much of my subject matter doesn't move, so super fast focusing and high frame rates are not key for me. The leaf shutter vs. fp shutter is also not a big issue for me one way or the other.

Overall, the X1D is a bit more of a "want" than an absolute "need," so I am starting to have second thoughts about maybe waiting until next year to see some full reviews, see how the Fuji medium format camera looks, and also maybe by then Sony will announce something interesting that can use my current lenses. On the other hand, it looks like it could be an incredible tool that is a blast to use and can help inspire me to create new work.

Sorry for rambling, but any thoughts or other perspectives are appreciated...

Thanks

 

[BANKER1]

As exciting as the X1D sounds, the rational side of my brain is wondering if I should cancel my pre-order. I know everyone's needs are different, and I thought the X1D would fulfill my needs (and let's face it, wants...), but as I go through a pro/con list for me, I am not so sure anymore it makes sense to keep my pre-order open.

I currently use the Sony A7RII and the Leica Q, both of which have their strengths and weaknesses, of course. The Leica Q is just plain fun to use and inspires me to go out and shoot, while the A7RII produces really nice files with the resolution I need for prints that I sell, and is very versatile, but it is not much fun for me to use and requires a fair amount of post-processing for me to really get the look I like. The X1D seems to combine the pleasurable ergonomics and simplicity of the Q with a file quality that in many cases surpasses the A7RII, but there are some real trade-offs for me...

Most important pros of the X1D for me:

Resolution (I sometimes crop and often have to print big, around 40" x 60" or so and sometimes bigger).
Dynamic Range
Color Fidelity
Ergonomics - compact size/weight of the system, simple menu system, comfortable to hold and carry
Lens quality reported to be good based on some early scattered reports

Most important cons for me:

Cost (although I have saved enough money for it from my sale of my 645Z if I also sell my Q or A7RII)
Unproven quality and reliability
Limited lens selection and lenses are relatively slow (this should improve in 2017 though)
Somewhat slow in operation (assume it will improve with firmware but is unlikely to ever be very fast)
No image stabilization plus handheld shooting with slow lenses in lower light means resolution takes a hit (I shoot handheld often)
No tilt screen (not huge but I do find this helpful sometimes on my Sony A7RII)
ISO range is somewhat limited compared to, say, the 645z I used to have, although it will probably be good enough for me most of the time.

I shoot a wide range of subject matter, mostly outdoors, never in a studio (see Peter Mendelson Photography for examples of my type of work). Much of my subject matter doesn't move, so super fast focusing and high frame rates are not key for me. The leaf shutter vs. fp shutter is also not a big issue for me one way or the other.

Overall, the X1D is a bit more of a "want" than an absolute "need," so I am starting to have second thoughts about maybe waiting until next year to see some full reviews, see how the Fuji medium format camera looks, and also maybe by then Sony will announce something interesting that can use my current lenses. On the other hand, it looks like it could be an incredible tool that is a blast to use and can help inspire me to create new work.

Sorry for rambling, but any thoughts or other perspectives are appreciated...

Thanks

I'm with you. You will probably not be the only one to have second thoughts about this camera. A lot of excitement has been generated with this breakthrough camera, and a lot of expectations have been created. After the camera finally starts to ship, there will probably be some disappointment since it cannot fulfill all the expectations and needs/wants of every photographer. But then, even if there are a number of cancellations of the camera, it will still have record sales. I am going to wait to order one to see how it fares with experienced photographers who will weigh in on its benefits and limitations, once they have a chance to evaluate it fully. And, I would like to sell a Leica M240 kit to fund the purchase of the X1D.

Don't worry, there will be plenty of lenses for this camera in the near future. Medium format lenses are always slow in comparison to smaller format lenses, and there are plenty of explanations here as to why that is the case. And, the real benefit of this camera is its relatively small size. If they were to offer faster lenses, they will have to be big and bulky, thus negating the camera's main benefits of light weight and compact size (for MFD). I'd say that "want" is the operating word for 95% of us. I can't ever imagine the Fuji offering would hold any interest for me, and you may have to wait a while to expect anything from Sony.

Greg

 

[drevil]

To me the X1D wasn't the game changer as it has been announced forehand, mainly as it is not able to adapt a wide range of third party lenses.
This gap will very likely be filled by the Fuji GFX, it has a FPS and will most likely be able to adapt many legacy and current lenses.
Cant wait to use my Contax 645 lenses with it. If am am getting the GFX, IF.

The Fuji is the true game changer, yes it is more bulky and probably heavier but it seems much more versatile.

As already mentioned, Sony is also rumored to have MF in the Pipeline, MF is definetely not dead and kicking strong, the future is bright.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Trust me having second thoughts in any gear is normal, it's really part of the buying process and at these costs mistakes are really expensive. This is that homework process I always bring up. There is no sin here in questioning your needs and wants if you did not than that would not be normal.

 

[kscott]

FWIW, I cancelled my pre-order due to similar sorts of doubts (and more than a little irritation with how Hasselblad has managed communications around their delays). Like you, the X1D was a want more than a need for me. Given zero urgency other than a desire to be one of the first with the cool new toy, a handful of questions that can't be answered until there are shipping cameras, the price tag, etc., the rational part of my brain started telling me to wait until the X1D was shipping, let Hasselblad work the kinks out, let folks critically evaluate the system, and then make a buying decision based on data, not lust. So I cancelled my pre-order, and I'll patiently wait to see whether the camera lives up to the hype. I hope that it does.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The Pentax 645Z and the Hasselblad use the same sensor, so Penatx high ISO capability is in all probability mostly a combo of "brag factor" and cheating. Don't know about the Pentax 645Z but the Sony A7rII seems to apply median filtering on raw files above 25000 ISO. It could be done better in the raw processor but with less "brag factor". I am pretty sure the high ISO capability of the Pentax and the Blad is the same, in an apples to apples comparison.

The X1D is supposed to be a compact and affordable camera, so they build compact and affordable lenses. Large apertures don't fit that description. The MTF data Hasselblad published for those lenses is very good.

MTF doesn't tell the whole story about a lens, though. But it tells a lot.

Best regards
Erik

Most important cons for me:


No image stabilization plus handheld shooting with slow lenses in lower light means resolution takes a hit (I shoot handheld often)
No tilt screen (not huge but I do find this helpful sometimes on my Sony A7RII)
ISO range is somewhat limited compared to, say, the 645z I used to have, although it will probably be good enough for me most of the time.


Thanks

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Some interesting things with Fuji

• They make the GFX instead of full frame, they wanted to make a big step up from APS-C
• So, they don't see the GFX as their MFD offering but as their large sensor camera
• Indeed, they talk about the GFX format
• They also clearly say that the lenses are designed for at least 100MP in the 44x33 mm format
• It is very probably that Sony releases new 44x33 mm sensors

Regarding Sony entering MFD, it is possible but I din't think anytime soon. But, I may be wrong. A GFX type camera needs a few features that I feel are essentials.

• Phase detect AF on the sensor
• First electronic shutter curtain

Sony certainly has a rodmap for their 44x33 mm sensor which in all probability is well known to their customers. That rodmap may have been affected by the earthquake.

Best regards
Erik

To me the X1D wasn't the game changer as it has been announced forehand, mainly as it is not able to adapt a wide range of third party lenses.
This gap will very likely be filled by the Fuji GFX, it has a FPS and will most likely be able to adapt many legacy and current lenses.
Cant wait to use my Contax 645 lenses with it. If am am getting the GFX, IF.

The Fuji is the true game changer, yes it is more bulky and probably heavier but it seems much more versatile.

As already mentioned, Sony is also rumored to have MF in the Pipeline, MF is definetely not dead and kicking strong, the future is bright.

 

[tashley]

I've been having some of the same thoughts. Key for me is the 'need versus want' question - especially given that I don't believe the camera will ship in the currently indicated timeframe.

If it is later than currently expected then it runs perilously close to the downtime and darkness of year end and by that time the Sony A73 series will be on the horizon as will the Fuji. So I think it quite likely that if it is indeed delayed again I will indeed think again.

About stabilisation though: the sensor has larger pixels than ff 35mm cameras in the 40+ MP range and it has a leaf shutter. That means that at any given actual (rather than equivalent) focal length it should be easier to shoot hand held. It might even be that this factor is worth a stop or more. Someone smarter than me can do the math.

 

[fotografz]

The notion of "Wants verses Needs" is always difficult to determine on a personal level.

In reality, if "Needs" were the true measure, a lot of camera companies would be doing worse than they are now. Capable hands and minds don't really need all this stuff to make good images ... what we want is more ease, diversity and versatility.

IMO, the two most important innovations of the recent past have been the size reduction due to mirrorless, and better sensors ... both of which have now come to Medium Format.

I think we can question any new offering and rationalize waiting for the next best thing, then do it again, and again ... until we never get anything for fear it will be outdated, which it most certainly will be in short order.:facesmack:

In this case, the rationalization is schizoid ... wanting or needing to print large or cropping with high resolution and fidelity, and hand holding the camera ... wants that usually stem from trying to consolidate all one's needs into one system, which never seems to work out without some form of compromise.

Or take the $18,000 this kit will end up costing to take a world cruise ... which you'll remember long after you forgot you ever owned a XiD:ROTFL:

- Marc

 

[ddanois]

Seems that Hasselblad's delay has provided the time for us to sober up to make a more rational decision.

I suppose life could be worse!

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

Seems that Hasselblad's delay has provided the time for us to sober up to make a more rational decision.

I suppose life could be worse!

Self doubt is a human trait, but it is not rational

 

[msstudio]

Not that i wants to sway your rational, but as you said the Sony A7xx needs "usually" a bit of attention in post. Most of my MFD images are pretty great out of the gate and i feel i get a better image, let alone lens quality/compression and the RAW files inherent color robustness and depth.
As much as i wasn't impressed buy the X1D at it's first introduction, i just saw the current firmware and mounted the 35-90 HC via lens adapter and have to say, having that option (with AF btw), along with all their fixed focus length HC/HCD lenses, does make for a very compelling kit addition.

All that's is obviously a very general observation and might not apply to all. If the contrast range is manageable by your current setup, the lens performance is up to your expectation, rendering of 35mm lenses on a 35mm chip meets your vision and the leaf shutter is something you can be without, then would probably side with your second round of thoughts about this camera.

 

[JeRuFo]

I think it makes sense to wait for the system to mature a little and see what the final product is like before choosing it as your main camera system.
The potential for cameras like these is enormous and many would welcome the beautiful files this sensor can produce, but at this stage you can't rely on it yet.

 

[Paratom]

As exciting as the X1D sounds, the rational side of my brain is wondering if I should cancel my pre-order. I know everyone's needs are different, and I thought the X1D would fulfill my needs (and let's face it, wants...), but as I go through a pro/con list for me, I am not so sure anymore it makes sense to keep my pre-order open.

I currently use the Sony A7RII and the Leica Q, both of which have their strengths and weaknesses, of course. The Leica Q is just plain fun to use and inspires me to go out and shoot, while the A7RII produces really nice files with the resolution I need for prints that I sell, and is very versatile, but it is not much fun for me to use and requires a fair amount of post-processing for me to really get the look I like. The X1D seems to combine the pleasurable ergonomics and simplicity of the Q with a file quality that in many cases surpasses the A7RII, but there are some real trade-offs for me...

Most important pros of the X1D for me:

Resolution (I sometimes crop and often have to print big, around 40" x 60" or so and sometimes bigger).
Dynamic Range
Color Fidelity
Ergonomics - compact size/weight of the system, simple menu system, comfortable to hold and carry
Lens quality reported to be good based on some early scattered reports

Most important cons for me:

Cost (although I have saved enough money for it from my sale of my 645Z if I also sell my Q or A7RII)
Unproven quality and reliability
Limited lens selection and lenses are relatively slow (this should improve in 2017 though)
Somewhat slow in operation (assume it will improve with firmware but is unlikely to ever be very fast)
No image stabilization plus handheld shooting with slow lenses in lower light means resolution takes a hit (I shoot handheld often)
No tilt screen (not huge but I do find this helpful sometimes on my Sony A7RII)
ISO range is somewhat limited compared to, say, the 645z I used to have, although it will probably be good enough for me most of the time.

I shoot a wide range of subject matter, mostly outdoors, never in a studio (see Peter Mendelson Photography for examples of my type of work). Much of my subject matter doesn't move, so super fast focusing and high frame rates are not key for me. The leaf shutter vs. fp shutter is also not a big issue for me one way or the other.

Overall, the X1D is a bit more of a "want" than an absolute "need," so I am starting to have second thoughts about maybe waiting until next year to see some full reviews, see how the Fuji medium format camera looks, and also maybe by then Sony will announce something interesting that can use my current lenses. On the other hand, it looks like it could be an incredible tool that is a blast to use and can help inspire me to create new work.

Sorry for rambling, but any thoughts or other perspectives are appreciated...

Thanks

I would probably wait and see how full production camera and lenses turn out before jumping on such a system and then also try to demo a full production unit.

 

[Godfrey]

The X1D is all about want for me too, I have no illusions about that.

For my planned, paying photography work, the Leica SL is the best choice; I know that already. A larger format sensor and an ultra wide lens are a particular personal interest to me, so I look forward to seeing the X1D lens line expand and will buy one when the lens I want and the money I need to afford it collide.

I'm also not interested in Fuji and Sony MF alternatives. I've tried to become comfortable with both makes' digital cameras, unsuccessfully. So I'm not heading in that direction. The higher end technical cameras I don't really want to afford.

The only competition to the X1D, for me, is the CFV-50c back for my existing Hasselblad kit. It's a totally different way of shooting with rather different lens options and I'm sorely tempted. But recent expenditures in other things stop me from putting out the cash for that right now, and by the time I'm ready to take such a leap, the X1D should be shipping. I'll defer the decision until then.

And I may indeed buy neither. :toocool:

G

 

[peterm1]

Thanks for all the replies - good food for thought.

Joe, I actually bought one of your 645z lenses from you, and as I approach 50 I also feel a sense of "if not now, when?"

I will probably not be in the first group to get the X1D since I ordered this summer, so I am thinking I will likely keep the order open for now and see what the first users think.

Since the A7RII is more versatile, I can keep that as a second system and (reluctantly) sell my Leica Q to take the sting out of the purchase.

Of course, my mind can change tomorrow but for now I think my heart is winning out over my head....

Thanks everyone!

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

Shame on you for letting the purchase of a car interfere with the purchase of a camera. Where are your priorities man?!! Letting gas get in the way of GAS is inexcusable. :ROTFL:

Joe

Ha! You beat me to it Joe

 

[D&A]

Joe, when you say "if not now, then when"...heck, I've been using that line since 17 years old when I bugged my parents for that Mustang GT..LOL!

We all know early adopters to equipment often have to put up with products that range from barely out of the beta stage in development, to highly tested and conceived products that simply work for the most part. If bad press and early feedback accompanies a high end product shortly after being released for sale, especially when its the lynch pin to a new product line, it can quickly religate it to failure andit eventually be discontinued.

I don't believe the X1D falls into that catagory but early handling of display units weren't particulary encouraging in a number of key areas. My gut feeling is Hasselblad was well aware of Fuji's imminent announcement of their MF mirrorless entry and they wanted to beat them to the punch so to speak....and thus were forced to show their hand prematurely, even risking some early complaints about the X1D.

There is no real answer until production units are out in the field and put through their paces. Niggling issues are to be expected, as long as they are managable or addressed satisfactorily.

Potential purchasers vary greatly as does their expectations of what they want and require of such a camera. As Guy often says, no one camera can be expected to do or cover it all...hence multiple systems. We often though like to think a new entry like the XD1 will tick most of the required boxed.

Heck, if Joe no longer needs to pump iron or hire a Serpa, that already goes a long way in answering Joes requirements. I can already hear the falling of stock prices for over the counter ibuprofen. .

Dave (D&A)

 

[KeithL]

There are those here who can indulge their whims at will. Unfortunately I've never had a proper job, been an image maker for my entire working life. Cameras have always had to pay their way, reliability and performance have been key. I've never had to run more than one system and now I'm 'retired' I still don't/can't. I've run a total of 3 systems over the last 40 years.

It focuses the mind!

 

[PedroL]

I had a good fortune to have a X1D on my workshop in Smokies last week. There was not a single glitch, or problem - the camera working to perfection. And weather it is need or want... we are all different.
Everyone in doubt should try this great camera and the need or want become irrelevant.
I have this unit in my Hasselblad store and you are welcome to come in and try it.