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Thread: An Afternoon with DTG

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    An Afternoon with DTG

    Local (to Florida) Hassy dealer DTG invited me to their suite at the Graphics of the Americas Expo in Miami Beach, FL where I got about two hours of "hands on" time with the Hasselblad H-System. I have posted my findings from this brief encounter on my blog. Enjoy!

    Link
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Carlos,
    Sorry I missed you over there. I stopped the show on Thursday.
    I enjoyed reading your review. The format and content was excellent.
    Keep up the good work.

    Lance
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Local (to Florida) Hassy dealer DTG invited me to their suite at the Graphics of the Americas Expo in Miami Beach, FL where I got about two hours of "hands on" time with the Hasselblad H-System. I have posted my findings from this brief encounter on my blog. Enjoy!

    Link
    Carlos

    Just a clarification. Except for the lens corrections in DAC in Phocus, Aperture processes the 3fff files just fine

    Woody

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    I cannot import the images into Aperture. I get errors when I try. The camera saved them as 3FR files. Same story with Lightroom 2.3. I can only open the files with Phocus.
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I cannot import the images into Aperture. I get errors when I try. The camera saved them as 3FR files. Same story with Lightroom 2.3. I can only open the files with Phocus.
    Apple did just release a new Camera Raw plug in so that may well fix your issue. Others have reported it has.

    David

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    One more clarification...

    The max shutter speed is 1/800s not 1/500s as stated.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    I have the latest Aperture Raw update (2.5) and Hasselblad 39 & 50 are not on the list. The 31 is. I have corrected the error about shutter speeds. I don't know how that happened, I was looking at the tech specs to confirm what I was writing and I could have sworn I hit the "8" and not the "5". Oh well, all fixed up now.
    Last edited by etrigan63; 9th March 2009 at 08:02.
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    One more clarification...

    The max shutter speed is 1/800s not 1/500s as stated.
    David, any comment on Farkas' assertion that the true speed when stopped down is closer to 1/650th if not stopped down?

    http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/ (search for "clocked" on the page to jump to the relevant remark).

    I'm not saying it's a big deal either way, but I'm curious.

    As my token correction the P65+ (and any future backs) do not require a wake-up cable when used on a tech camera, and for the other P+ backs which do require a wake-up signal you can purchase an optional cable release which both wakes up the camera and triggers the shutter with a single button push. IMO, that is a much much smaller issue than having to carry an external battery/hard-drive. After all that Alpa TC with large format lens and a digital back is a really great (if exotic) compact system; having to attach a large databank (about the same size as the alpa+back itself) really kills the small-and-portable advantage of that system.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    The point I was making there Doug was that the H3D is not as tightly locked as everyone thinks it is. What I do think is that someone should whip up a belt mounted battery using a FireWire cable to power the system for use on technical backs as opposed to buying the data storage unit.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Doug:

    All leaf shutters change effective speed as they are stopped down; it is a physical limitation of their design. Also one of the reasons that most leaf-shutter lenses are optically slower than their non-shuttered counterparts -- need to keep the overall delta change on aperture diameter small so as not to negatively impact net exposure
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    The point I was making there Doug was that the H3D is not as tightly locked as everyone thinks it is. What I do think is that someone should whip up a belt mounted battery using a FireWire cable to power the system for use on technical backs as opposed to buying the data storage unit.
    Belt mounted power supply for powerful hand-held device used to shoot visually stunning subjects?

    Who ya gonna call?



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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    David, any comment on Farkas' assertion that the true speed when stopped down is closer to 1/650th if not stopped down?

    http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/ (search for "clocked" on the page to jump to the relevant remark).

    I'm not saying it's a big deal either way, but I'm curious.

    As my token correction the P65+ (and any future backs) do not require a wake-up cable when used on a tech camera, and for the other P+ backs which do require a wake-up signal you can purchase an optional cable release which both wakes up the camera and triggers the shutter with a single button push. IMO, that is a much much smaller issue than having to carry an external battery/hard-drive. After all that Alpa TC with large format lens and a digital back is a really great (if exotic) compact system; having to attach a large databank (about the same size as the alpa+back itself) really kills the small-and-portable advantage of that system.

    Doug Peterson
    I don't the ins and out of their test so hard to comment. But Jack also makes a correct and valid point.

    Also the comment of 'Leaf shutters don't work in a vacuum' in the same article is nonsense. Why? Hasselblad Apollo missions. I think the moon is pretty vacuum-esque!

    Also there are already a couple of firewire battery solutions which I have seen people use to success.

    Now if you want to talk about limitations of focal plane shutters.....

    Best,



    David

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Doug:

    All leaf shutters change effective speed as they are stopped down; it is a physical limitation of their design. Also one of the reasons that most leaf-shutter lenses are optically slower than their non-shuttered counterparts -- need to keep the overall delta change on aperture diameter small so as not to negatively impact net exposure
    Now you see that is why I love this job.

    I learn something new every day.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Now if you want to talk about limitations of focal plane shutters.....
    David
    touche'

    Though, maybe at some point we'll have the last laugh if Mamiya is successful in releasing a line of leaf shutter lenses so that our platform would have the benefits of both leaf and focal plane shutters.

    I love ya David, I hope we never stop bickering :-).

    Doug

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    I don't the ins and out of their test so hard to comment. But Jack also makes a correct and valid point.

    Also the comment of 'Leaf shutters don't work in a vacuum' in the same article is nonsense. Why? Hasselblad Apollo missions.
    Dave:

    They probably were thinking of really old view lens leaf shutters that used air bladders or pistons to regulate speed!

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Also the comment of 'Leaf shutters don't work in a vacuum' in the same article is nonsense. Why? Hasselblad Apollo missions. I think the moon is pretty vacuum-esque!
    Umm... this was a figure of speech, not a technical limitation.

    "Leaf shutters do not work in a vacuum. Their speed is dictated by the aperture setting as well."


    In other words, the leaf shutter is not independent of other factors. So, it does not "function" in a vacuum. Sorry for the confusion.

    According to Leica, they will take the aperture effect into account and regulate the shutter so that if you have it set to 1/500th, it will fire at 1/500th regardless of aperture setting. I would be very curious as to the technical details of how the H system works and what the specs are.

    David
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Though, maybe at some point we'll have the last laugh if Mamiya is successful in releasing a line of leaf shutter lenses so that our platform would have the benefits of both leaf and focal plane shutters.
    Leaf and focal plane in the same camera.... why does that sound so familiar?
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Seriously, no one is going to give me props on the Ghost Busters joke?

    I thought that was the funniest thing I've said in ages.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Seriously, no one is going to give me props on the Ghost Busters joke?

    I thought that was the funniest thing I've said in ages.
    I feel you. But, Ghostbusters 2?! C'mon, man. Go for the original.
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Umm... this was a figure of speech, not a technical limitation.

    "Leaf shutters do not work in a vacuum. Their speed is dictated by the aperture setting as well."


    In other words, the leaf shutter is not independent of other factors. So, it does not "function" in a vacuum. Sorry for the confusion.

    According to Leica, they will take the aperture effect into account and regulate the shutter so that if you have it set to 1/500th, it will fire at 1/500th regardless of aperture setting. I would be very curious as to the technical details of how the H system works and what the specs are.

    David
    Ahah! Understood.

    I have a very interesting document regarding the exposure system on the H series. So interesting in fact, I can't locate it right now. So Ill get hold of it in the morning and post it up.

    Best,


    David

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    touche'

    Though, maybe at some point we'll have the last laugh if Mamiya is successful in releasing a line of leaf shutter lenses so that our platform would have the benefits of both leaf and focal plane shutters.
    I won't hold my breath...

    Right back at ya!

    David

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I have the latest Aperture Raw update (2.5) and Hasselblad 39 & 50 are not on the list. The 31 is. I have corrected the error about shutter speeds. I don't know how that happened, I was looking at the tech specs to confirm what I was writing and I could have sworn I hit the "8" and not the "5". Oh well, all fixed up now.
    Carlos

    I have the H3DII-39 and import with no problems into Aperture

    Woody

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    I'm waiting for this new model any guesses when
    Hasmayeica
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    I tried importing the 3FR files into Aperture and all I got were errors.
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    The point I was making there Doug was that the H3D is not as tightly locked as everyone thinks it is. What I do think is that someone should whip up a belt mounted battery using a FireWire cable to power the system for use on technical backs as opposed to buying the data storage unit.

    Carlos,

    You are correct...for the past 9 months I have used a belt mounted 12V universal battery and firewire adapter to do exactly what you describe on an Alpa TC.

    Please refer to the following:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...ght=image+bank

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Universal.html

    Works great with a long life...storage is to CF card of the H3D II 39 back.


    Bob

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Carlos

    I have the H3DII-39 and import with no problems into Aperture

    Woody
    Me too.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I tried importing the 3FR files into Aperture and all I got were errors.
    Is it version 2.1.2? That's the one I'm using, and it opens files from my H3D-II/31 and 39.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    David, any comment on Farkas' assertion that the true speed when stopped down is closer to 1/650th if not stopped down?

    http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/ (search for "clocked" on the page to jump to the relevant remark).

    I'm not saying it's a big deal either way, but I'm curious.

    As my token correction the P65+ (and any future backs) do not require a wake-up cable when used on a tech camera, and for the other P+ backs which do require a wake-up signal you can purchase an optional cable release which both wakes up the camera and triggers the shutter with a single button push. IMO, that is a much much smaller issue than having to carry an external battery/hard-drive. After all that Alpa TC with large format lens and a digital back is a really great (if exotic) compact system; having to attach a large databank (about the same size as the alpa+back itself) really kills the small-and-portable advantage of that system.

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    Doug, are you thinking of the original Image Bank from the Imacon days? That one was a pretty big. The Hasselblad Image Bank-II is much smaller. I just clip it on my belt. In cold weather I put it in an inside pocket and run the FW/800 cord down my sleve ... it keeps the battery warm in cold weather shooting. What I like is capturing up to 1000 shots with unlimited burst depth, you can shoot as fast as the camera or lights will allow.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Is it version 2.1.2? That's the one I'm using, and it opens files from my H3D-II/31 and 39.
    Yep, version 2.1.2 with all of the RAW Updates. What gets me is that the RAW Updates are system-wide so the Finder should be able to display a thumbnail. but all I get are blank icons.
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Carlos,

    I had problems with the 3FR files in Aperture until this last 2.5 update which fixed everything. I was able to import FFF files for the previous two RAW updates, but that is no longer needed. I'm shooting the H3DII39.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    I have reinstalled the 2.5 update and no soap. Can someone send me a link to H3DII/39 3FR file so I can test and see if it is the H3DII/50 files that are causing me grief?

    [UPDATE: Apparently the H3DII/50 is NOT supported yet. I downloaded a sample FFF file from DTG (thanks Jordan!) and I could see a thumbnail from Finder. This bodes well for being able to open the file in Aperture (and iPhoto for that matter.)]

    [UPDATE 2: Files from the H3DII/31 & 39 import perfectly. The files from the /50 are still a mystery to the Mac.]
    Last edited by etrigan63; 9th March 2009 at 20:22.
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Thanks for the link to an alternative power source Bob. I am happy with the Image bank 11 most of the time - but for $100 or so this represents a much cheaper alternative to the Image Bank.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Carlos,

    You are correct...for the past 9 months I have used a belt mounted 12V universal battery and firewire adapter to do exactly what you describe on an Alpa TC.

    Please refer to the following:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...ght=image+bank

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Universal.html

    Works great with a long life...storage is to CF card of the H3D II 39 back.


    Bob
    Thanks Bob, That was one I wasn't aware of.

    David

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post

    According to Leica, they will take the aperture effect into account and regulate the shutter so that if you have it set to 1/500th, it will fire at 1/500th regardless of aperture setting. I would be very curious as to the technical details of how the H system works and what the specs are.

    David
    Sounds like they are doing something similar to our True Exposure which we started in 2002, so they are only 7 years behind. (Joke!)

    Attached is a description of the functionality.

    David

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Sounds like they are doing something similar to our True Exposure which we started in 2002, so they are only 7 years behind. (Joke!)

    Attached is a description of the functionality.

    David
    Thanks for that David. Good info.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Doug, are you thinking of the original Image Bank from the Imacon days? That one was a pretty big. The Hasselblad Image Bank-II is much smaller. I just clip it on my belt. In cold weather I put it in an inside pocket and run the FW/800 cord down my sleve ... it keeps the battery warm in cold weather shooting. What I like is capturing up to 1000 shots with unlimited burst depth, you can shoot as fast as the camera or lights will allow.


    With permission from DocMoore to use his AlpaTC+H3D snapshot.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Personally I would prefer to have a fully autonomous unit, especially when using something mini like an Alpa TC. In my style of shooting I can't fill an 8gb CF card in a day, let alone one continuous shoot, nor would I want all of my images in one basket. But like any other design choice in MFD I'm sure there are several strong positives to go along with the negatives. The extended battery life is really cool for instance.

    And actually when I was in college I use a Valeo 17wi which shot to a Leaf equivalent of the Image Bank and loved it. In the case of the Valeo 17 you could buy a (ridiculously priced) bracket to fit underneath the camera body which held the hard-drive/batteries. Can you do that with the Hassy (honestly asking, I have no idea)? I'm not sure I would still be as in love with it since CF card prices/sizes have improved so much since then, but I did like it when I was using it.

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Yeah Doug, the Image Bank-II is a whopper! NOT! LOL!

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yeah Doug, the Image Bank-II is a whopper! NOT! LOL!
    Marc,

    I agree that the size of the IB is better...after missing your sale last year I finally found one this week at a decent price. I look forward to the ability to carry multiple Sony InfoLithium batteries whenout for an extended time.

    Bob

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post


    With permission from DocMoore to use his AlpaTC+H3D snapshot.
    Nice to know that Phase and Mamiya sales are so low you have time for such things.

    David

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Nice to know that Phase and Mamiya sales are so low you have time for such things.

    David
    And for you to read them .

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Heh. ;-)

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Heh. ;-)
    Guys,

    I hope I did not facilitate anything here...I am sure that it is slow across the board. Strange times.

    Bob

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Not at all - all in good jest!

    D

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Whew!
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG


    I love when all the fun stuff these folks throw at each other and just proofs all nice folks in the business with a sense of humor. If we can' have a good laugh than there is something wrong.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Sounds like they are doing something similar to our True Exposure which we started in 2002, so they are only 7 years behind. (Joke!)

    Attached is a description of the functionality.

    David
    Thank you for finding this. Hasselblad certainly has no shortage of tech documentation.

    From my understanding of this document, the True Exposure feature is actually tweaking the aperture to compensate for the slowdown in shutter speed. The idea that you would have to disable custom setting #13 when using studio strobes at high sync speed seems a bit crazy to me. Isn't the whole point of having a fast leaf shutter so that you can sync with studio strobes? And if the photographer wants to shoot at a specific aperture for desired effect, why should the camera override this?

    Leica's approach, on the other hand, is to underrate the shutter speed so that they can achieve the listed speed at all aperture settings.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Thank you for finding this. Hasselblad certainly has no shortage of tech documentation.
    Yes, absolute props for Hassy documenting this. Their collection of white papers is a real asset to their company. At least for big nerds like me :-).
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    Re: An Afternoon with DTG

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    I love when all the fun stuff these folks throw at each other and just proofs all nice folks in the business with a sense of humor. If we can' have a good laugh than there is something wrong.
    Besides, it gives me something to shoot while sitting on my backside waiting the car parts I have to shoot for real.

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