Copal shutters

[TimG]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know what the current state of affairs is with copal shutters? I know that they're basically discontinued, however I just placed an order for a Cambo-Rodenstock 32mm WTS and they're saying they're now at low stock levels, the guy I'm dealing with thinks this might be due to the availability of the shutters, either way - it seems obvious that Copals won't be around for that much longer. - I know Rodenstock are doing quite well as a company since Schneider pulled out, so I don't imagine the lenses will disappear - I'm more curious as to what the future holds.

Anyone any idea what any of the tech camera manufacturers/Rodenstock are planning with this? will they be using an alternative? or moving to expensive e-shutters?

 

[dchew]

Hi Guys,
...

Anyone any idea what any of the tech camera manufacturers/Rodenstock are planning with this? will they be using an alternative? or moving to expensive e-shutters?

My guess: With the new electronic shutter feature on the IQ3100, it hints at a future with no lens shutter. It is more accurate, has more choices (1/3 or 1/2 stops), no shutter cost, even less vibration. The only problem is the situation where a rolling shutter causes distortion, but that problem should be solved relatively soon.

Given the above, I think it would be hard to come up with a market model that says, "if you build them, they will come." At least beyond the one-off repairs or custom manufacture.

Obviously we need a diaphragm, but that's a simpler design. Don't know what plans there are for that.

Dave

 

[Paul2660]

I agree if you have a IQ100 back, the ES can be an excellent solution, (I don't remember is the IQ1 100MP has the ES or only the IQ3 100MP).

But that is only the tip of the mountain, and the vast majority of users are still not in that product set. Hasselblad is/is not shipping their 100MP back (I have not heard anything on it in a while) and I don't remember it having an ES option.

The 50MP CMOS from Phase One so far doesn't have an ES, and odds are it won't until a new model is announced in 2017? Fuji seems to have an ES listed as possibility on their version of the 50MP chip however so it might be possible to retro fit for Phase One via firmware on the IQ350.

For the rest of the market, there is only the Copal or ES on lens option. Everyone knows the state of Copals, they have not made one now in over a year and the shutters that Rodenstock still has have been on the shelf for a while and possibly need to be totally worked over by a company like Precision Camera. The ES options from Arca, Rodenstock to me are not a great alternative right now. Massive shutter and a USB connection needing a tethered environment to work with? Arca's looks more portable, but still as far as I know has never shipped, and it may have been dropped, and it's limited to a a max shutter speed of 1/250th. The current Rodenstock ES on a 32 HR-W could possibly be too much for the lens, as there already is an existing issue with the 32 HR-W and the copal since so much of the mass of the lens is in front of the copal, you have to be careful when using and carrying that combination, as you can cause the shutter to shift and put the lens out of calibration. Rodenstock makes a point of mentioning this on their site. The ES will be even more massive (at least the ones I have seen).

The market is ripe for a ES shutter for all the existing tech lenses, one that is simple, light weight, and is easy to control. But so far that product has not been announced as far as I can tell.

Paul Caldwell

 

[TimG]

My best guess, is that there might be a bit of a "drought" of technical lenses for a while, until Rodenstock or Arca engineer a more workable solution. I had a chat with Paula from Linhof a few months ago - and everything is apparently going well with Rodenstock's technical lens business, so I don't expect them to stop making the lenses - I guess it's just a case of wait and see, regarding the shutters..

 

[Wayne Fox]

My guess: With the new electronic shutter feature on the IQ3100, it hints at a future with no lens shutter. It is more accurate, has more choices (1/3 or 1/2 stops), no shutter cost, even less vibration. The only problem is the situation where a rolling shutter causes distortion, but that problem should be solved relatively soon.

I guess it depends on what you mean by “relative”. I get the feeling it’s still a few years out, at least for MF sensor sizes.

 

[dchew]

I guess it depends on what you mean by “relative”. I get the feeling it’s still a few years out, at least for MF sensor sizes.

Yeah I agree with a few years. But in the context of someone thinking about producing shutters for lenses, there is a very questionable long-term future. If it were me, I'd be more interested in designing and manufacturing a new diaphragm-only replacement to fit in the existing space on the lens; retrofit-able, if that's a word.

Dave

 

[TimG]

I got an official response back from Cambo earlier - apparently there's currently plenty of supply with Rodenstock and Copal - so no problems at the moment, you can choose any of their lenses in either Copal, or the e-shutter.

I suspect companies like Cambo/Alpa/Arca will probably look at making a more compact e-shutter when they start running out of Copals, as my understanding of the current e-shutter, is that it's not the sort of thing you can use on location (batteries, controller, USB etc)

 

[gerald.d]

My guess: With the new electronic shutter feature on the IQ3100, it hints at a future with no lens shutter. It is more accurate, has more choices (1/3 or 1/2 stops), no shutter cost, even less vibration. The only problem is the situation where a rolling shutter causes distortion, but that problem should be solved relatively soon.

Given the above, I think it would be hard to come up with a market model that says, "if you build them, they will come." At least beyond the one-off repairs or custom manufacture.

Obviously we need a diaphragm, but that's a simpler design. Don't know what plans there are for that.

Dave

Hi Dave -

There are two problems actually - the IQ3 100 rolling shutter distortion issue won't be solved, ever. And it will be some time before there are CMOS 100MP MF backs with a global shutter.

The second problem related to the rolling shutter is that you can't realistically use strobes, and so are limited to available natural lighting or continuous artificial.

Kind regards,


Gerald.