Leica 007 - A Warning To Potential Buyers

[jdphoto]

Clearly a terrible camera. After an hour in the snow today it completely failed to stop working.






The OP has made his point, gotten sympathy, advice, and no disbelief. But that isn't enough. This piling on is silly. If we're going to declare a product to be garbage by a few anecdotes, then positive experiences are just as important.

--Matt

That's what the "Fun with Leica" thread is for.

P.S. I'd cover that hot shoe if you like the electronics.

 

[justalexander]

And I use Leica, Sony, and Canon, and the Sony has had more problems than the other two combined. Oddly enough, I do not hang out in Sony forums trashing their brand.

--Matt

Really?

If you relied on your Sony to make a living, you'd paid more than $85,000 for your Sony, you had to return home during a shoot to collect your Canon costing 1/10th the price, you had reported over 20 problems to Sony in the past 12 months, your camera had gone back to Sony Japan for repairs twice only to have more problems appear...

Then you're a better man that I am. Please let us know how you go when your car breaks down on a motorway, or your house crumbles around you, or your computer has so many problems that you can't go a single week without having problems and down time.

 

[justalexander]

Hi Justin,
with the M8 thats what I did: I bought enough filters for all my lenses. The Money spent was much less than the Discount they gave on a lens as appolegy.
And then I just enjoyed the camera for a couple of years.

As Long as there are Solutions I can live with it. Much better than the Sony user Interface/menue-structure. It does work but really ist not great at all and will probably never Change.

In regards of the filters ... whats the big deal, a product is not on stock. so what. buy a B&W, they cost half and are just as good. (Thats what I believe and did at least, even though the Leica UV filter was available in store I was not willing to pay the double Price)

The problem is that they're marketing a product which they can't even produce. It's not a case of not being in stock but advertising a product which doesn't even exist.

As far as I'm concerned it points to a general attitude by Leica to promise something and then not deliver.

 

[justalexander]

Clearly a terrible camera. After an hour in the snow today it completely failed to stop working.






The OP has made his point, gotten sympathy, advice, and no disbelief. But that isn't enough. This piling on is silly. If we're going to declare a product to be garbage by a few anecdotes, then positive experiences are just as important.

--Matt

I get it... you're joking!!!

I thought you were being serious by saying that I shouldn't be upset just because YOU haven't had a problem with YOUR Leica. Even though it cost me $85,000 and it started showing faults within 2 weeks of purchase! And it continues to have faults and now being out of warranty will begin costing even more!

And you're not saying that we should all just forget our warranties? That companies should be able to sell faulty product or even market products that don't even exist.

For a moment I thought you were saying that everyone should just keep their Galaxy Note's and that you would be perfectly comfortable boarding a 15hr international flight with 1/3 of passengers using their Galaxy Note's inflight.

Phew!!!

 

[Paratom]

in the original thread there was included the following: "I've read many other horror stories so would be keen to hear from other S system users about their own experiences."

With all respect for your Anger and your Problems, you asked about other users experiences. Now People answer with their experience and you bash them.

If you only wish to hear confirmation of your own experience/opinion, than you might tell us in the first step.

Now since you say Hassy Service is a joke, Phase doesnt offer the lens quality you want, and your bad experience with Leica makes you step out of the S System, what will be your choice for the future?

Honestly I believe no brand/system is perfect. The question of service depends a lot on the local people you have to deal with.

Leica is like a Diva, they sometimes need longer to respond. If I had the same experience like you I would also say bye bye to Leica, except they gave me a new replacement Body for free. I am on the third S (S2, S006, S007) and my experience is different.
I still believe that even if Leica is optically excellent and built like tanks, the products are still not perfect. I doubt any medium Format camera to be as reliable like a Nikon D5, and even a Nikon D5 can fail.
Now we can Focus on all the bad of each brand, or we can Focus to find Solutions. For you Leica might not be the solution any more, for others it might be. I wish you luck and success that your next System works better and more reliable for you.

 

[Paratom]

The problem is that they are marketing a product which they can't even produce. It's not a case of not being in stock but advertising a product which isn't even available.

It points to a general attitude by Leica so far to promise something and then not deliver.

Hey, ist just a filter and there are enough others who offer good filters.
I am more upset they dont manage to supply me a 50/1.4SL lens:thumbdown:

 

[justalexander]

in the original thread there was included the following: "I've read many other horror stories so would be keen to hear from other S system users about their own experiences."

With all respect for your Anger and your Problems, you asked about other users experiences. Now People answer with their experience and you bash them.

If you only wish to hear confirmation of your own experience/opinion, than you might tell us in the first step.

Now since you say Hassy Service is a joke, Phase doesnt offer the lens quality you want, and your bad experience with Leica makes you step out of the S System, what will be your choice for the future?

Honestly I believe no brand/system is perfect. The question of service depends a lot on the local people you have to deal with.

Leica is like a Diva, they sometimes need longer to respond. If I had the same experience like you I would also say bye bye to Leica, except they gave me a new replacement Body for free. I am on the third S (S2, S006, S007) and my experience is different.
I still believe that even if Leica is optically excellent and built like tanks, the products are still not perfect. I doubt any medium Format camera to be as reliable like a Nikon D5, and even a Nikon D5 can fail.
Now we can Focus on all the bad of each brand, or we can Focus to find Solutions. For you Leica might not be the solution any more, for others it might be. I wish you luck and success that your next System works better and more reliable for you.

I'm not talking about perfect... I'm talking about a camera that doesn't work! What part of that don't you understand?

Did you see my previous post which showed colour artefacts on the files? Are you saying I should just accept that? Should I just spend an extra couple of hours after every job removing these artefacts from my files before giving them to clients rather than spending that time with my family?

How does this sound to you... You send me $85,000 and I'll send you the equipment. Does that sound fair to you? Not interested in spending $85,000 on equipment that doesn't work properly? Then how about I send you all the files that have colour artefacts and you can retouch them for free?

 

[justalexander]

Hey, ist just a filter and there are enough others who offer good filters.
I am more upset they dont manage to supply me a 50/1.4SL lens:thumbdown:

Try buying an entire camera system that doesn't work properly! And if you're foolish enough to accept this kind of treatment repeatedly from a company and continue going back for more then you probably deserve to be upset.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

 

[erlingmm]

Please try to be constructive or silent.
thanks
-bob

 

[justalexander]

Yeah, we got it now: You're not happy. Get a life.

Just as soon as you send me the money!!!

Actually, it surprises me that people like you get so upset about others sharing their experiences. Usually people get upset if they have a vested interest or are just plain ignorant. I haven't posted in the Leica fanboy thread how awful the Leica S is so how about you pay me and other people who have had problems the same courtesy and stay out of this thread.

 

[erlingmm]

Just as soon as you send me the money!!!

Actually, it surprises me that people like you get so upset about others sharing their experiences. Usually people get upset if they have a vested interest or are just plain ignorant. I haven't posted in the Leica fanboy thread how awful the Leica S is so how about you pay me and other people who have had problems the same courtesy and stay out of this thread.

Not upset at all, just happy with my S007. I live in Norway and take it out in snow and cold weather all the time, so I don't really know what you are talking about.
As for the artefacts - yes if you blow a picture up enough, and it contains parallel high frequency lines, you will get artefacts. Congratulations !! I can do that, too !

(Self-portrait in slush taken with the S007 attached)

 

[justalexander]

not constructive

 

[erlingmm]

How do you know I don' beat my wife?
THIS is not "True Confessions" - bob

 

[Paratom]

I'm not talking about perfect... I'm talking about a camera that doesn't work! What part of that don't you understand?

Did you see my previous post which showed colour artefacts on the files? Are you saying I should just accept that? Should I just spend an extra couple of hours after every job removing these artefacts from my files before giving them to clients rather than spending that time with my family?

How does this sound to you... You send me $85,000 and I'll send you the equipment. Does that sound fair to you? Not interested in spending $85,000 on equipment that doesn't work properly? Then how about I send you all the files that have colour artefacts and you can retouch them for free?

sounds to me like you have a faulty camera.

If you read my answer you can see that I would request a replacement body or say good buy to Leica if I was in your place. But obviously you only seem to read the parts of answers which dont agree with you and then shoot back.


why on earth should I send you even a penny? you obviously dont look for recommandations how to solve the problem but for people who share your complains.

why didnt you call your thread title "Looking for guys I can shout at because I am angry about Leica"? People who have different experience please dont answer

If you have the same way of communication with Hasselblad and Leica I am not surprised you dont receive the help you would like to receive.

 

[jdphoto]

Yeah, we got it now: You're not happy. Get a life.

Very productive input. This apathetic attitude tends to breed fanboys. No compassion for a professional photographer who's invested considerably more than most of us and has nothing to show for it other than a highly devalued, demoralizing pile of junk! I take some of these comments a little personally because when I had similar issues with Hasselblad MFD, I was excoriated by the more well known members here from everything from economics to lack of detailed research on my part. But not one of them faulted the company for making a steaming pile of crap! I'm assuming this was because they too, were invested in the same brands and didn't want to admit that sometimes their high end cameras are anything but that. Most high end pro's who are fortunate enough to invest in these MFD camera systems should expect nothing but the best. Lack of confidence in that photo gear or no recourse from the manufacturer renders them useless with no resale value to compensate. So, have a little compassion. These tendentious remarks do not bode well for this or any forum.

To the OP, Leica should refund or replace your camera and the dealer should be leading this effort. The dealer represents their product and should serves as the conduit for communications. If you can get a new replacement, immediately return it for a full refund and move on to another camera. There are quite a few better cameras with newer technology, more reliability and much less to invest. It is a good time to be a digital photographer.

 

[jdphoto]

Not upset at all, just happy with my S007. I live in Norway and take it out in snow and cold weather all the time, so I don't really know what you are talking about.
As for the artefacts - yes if you blow a picture up enough, and it contains parallel high frequency lines, you will get artefacts. Congratulations !! I can do that, too !

(Self-portrait in slush taken with the S007 attached)

Why don't people read the title of the thread before posting or understand the meaning of a forum. You also get parallel artifacts across your screen and you're okay with that for what you paid? I've never owned a camera like that...thankfully.

 

[rsmphoto]

Whew! I'm not sure this will be welcome here, and after all, it is just one person's experience...

...but I'm going to risk my own anecdotal reply. Like everything in life, I think my experience might boil down to individual relationships and people, but who knows, maybe Leica isn't as indifferent as some might want others to believe. And I'm certainly not making excuses for design flaws.

So, I'm a pro - have been for over 35 years. I currently make my living with an S system. I shoot over 100 location days a year, traveling. I've used the S for the last 6 years. Before that, Hasselblad. Recently, I had my S system completely crash on a shoot - first one lens, then another, then the body seemed to get involved (auto focus instigated). I was well aware of the auto focus issue, seemingly caused by the recent firmware upgrade. As I always do anyway, I had brought along my backup system (Leica SL) that took over nicely, working tethered, and I completed the shoot. Happy client.

I immediately called my dealer in what one might describe as a bit of a panic (but not angry mind you, just very concerned - after all these years of shoots I've learned to be a bit zen-like when the sh*t hits the fan), since I desperately needed my medium format system up and running for all the other shoots in the pipeline, and I knew what the failure meant - a likely long term repair in Germany for everything. Within three days I was shipped a complete replacement loaner S system mirroring mine, and mine was shipped off to Germany for a vaca.

The gear came back after 3 months, and again, the swap was effortless on the return.

Everything now works as it should.

Go figure. They treated me fairly, very professionally, and with great courtesy.

Not sure I could have asked for more as a working pro.

But hey, I'm just the one guy.

 

[justalexander]

sounds to me like you have a faulty camera.

If you read my answer you can see that I would request a replacement body or say good buy to Leica if I was in your place. But obviously you only seem to read the parts of answers which dont agree with you and then shoot back.


why on earth should I send you even a penny? you obviously dont look for recommandations how to solve the problem but for people who share your complains.

why didnt you call your thread title "Looking for guys I can shout at because I am angry about Leica"? People who have different experience please dont answer

If you have the same way of communication with Hasselblad and Leica I am not surprised you dont receive the help you would like to receive.

Again, someone opening their mouth without knowledge of the facts!

I worked with Leica on the problems from the second week of ownership. There have been repairs to the camera and lenses and replacements of accessories yet they continue to fail. Even the loan camera had some of the same problems.

Leica won't give me a replacement and I can't say goodbye while they have my money and I have their faulty equipment.

As for how I deal with Leica, what do you know? I provided them with constant feedback, good and bad. I gave the Leica rep a list of photographers that I thought he might be able to sell the S system to... but after a couple of months of failures I asked him not to contact anyone on the list until my problems had been resolved. I didn't want my reputation being damaged by a lemon camera system.

Even Leica have admitted there are problems. Why else would they offer a lifetime replacement on AF motors? But I guess you don't see that as an admission of problems, just a kind gesture of a company that has your best interests at heart.

And a further example of how people like you really shouldn't open their mouths without knowledge of the facts, I downloaded a firmware update which crippled my camera while on a shoot. I contacted the local Leica rep who said there wasn't a problem. I then contacted the head engineer for the S system in Germany (yes, I have his personal details because the Leica thought I was very professional and very helpful and gave them to me) and he confirmed there was a problem. Had I just listened to the local rep I would have thought it was all in my head. Thank god I didn't listen to him just as I shouldn't listen to you!

So before make stupid and unfounded claims about the way I relate to Leica please let everyone know whether they trust you enough to give you the direct contact details of the head S engineer (who I must say has been very polite and helpful).

And I do value other peoples opinions, but I can't believe I have to spell this out so simply... JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVN'T HAD PROBLEMS DOESN'T MEAN THAT NO ONE HAS HAD PROBLEMS.

If I was that naive I would argue that anyone who claims to have had AF motor problems is making it up simply because I haven't had AF motor problems. I'm just not that stupid or naive!

 

[jdphoto]

Whew! I'm not sure this will be welcome here, and after all, it is just one person's experience...

...but I'm going to risk my own anecdotal reply. Like everything in life, I think my experience might boil down to individual relationships and people, but who knows, maybe Leica isn't as indifferent as some might want others to believe. And I'm certainly not making excuses for design flaws.

So, I'm a pro - have been for over 35 years. I currently make my living with an S system. I shoot over 100 location days a year, traveling. I've used the S for the last 6 years. Before that, Hasselblad. Recently, I had my S system completely crash on a shoot - first one lens, then another, then the body seemed to get involved (auto focus instigated). I was well aware of the auto focus issue, seemingly caused by the recent firmware upgrade. As I always do anyway, I had brought along my backup system (Leica SL) that took over nicely, working tethered, and I completed the shoot. Happy client.

I immediately called my dealer in what one might describe as a bit of a panic (but not angry mind you, just very concerned - after all these years of shoots I've learned to be a bit zen-like when the sh*t hits the fan), since I desperately needed my medium format system up and running for all the other shoots in the pipeline, and I knew what the failure meant - a likely long term repair in Germany for everything. Within three days I was shipped a complete replacement loaner S system mirroring mine, and mine was shipped off to Germany for a vaca.

The gear came back after 3 months, and again, the swap was effortless on the return.

Everything now works as it should.

Go figure. They treated me fairly, very professionally, and with great courtesy.

Not sure I could have asked for more as a working pro.

But hey, I'm just the one guy.

That is refreshing and appreciate the comment. I agree that relationships play an important aspect of resolution. Tone and intention are often lost in email communications and assessing some responses can also be lost in translation. Perhaps that's what's happened in this thread. Work through the dealer who sold you the camera as it's their reputation along with Leica. There's a reason Leica has good reputation, but somehow this fell through the cracks. Keep us updated, but remember honey and the threat of a class action lawsuit attracts more flies.

 

[justalexander]

Whew! I'm not sure this will be welcome here, and after all, it is just one person's experience...

...but I'm going to risk my own anecdotal reply. Like everything in life, I think my experience might boil down to individual relationships and people, but who knows, maybe Leica isn't as indifferent as some might want others to believe. And I'm certainly not making excuses for design flaws.

So, I'm a pro - have been for over 35 years. I currently make my living with an S system. I shoot over 100 location days a year, traveling. I've used the S for the last 6 years. Before that, Hasselblad. Recently, I had my S system completely crash on a shoot - first one lens, then another, then the body seemed to get involved (auto focus instigated). I was well aware of the auto focus issue, seemingly caused by the recent firmware upgrade. As I always do anyway, I had brought along my backup system (Leica SL) that took over nicely, working tethered, and I completed the shoot. Happy client.

I immediately called my dealer in what one might describe as a bit of a panic (but not angry mind you, just very concerned - after all these years of shoots I've learned to be a bit zen-like when the sh*t hits the fan), since I desperately needed my medium format system up and running for all the other shoots in the pipeline, and I knew what the failure meant - a likely long term repair in Germany for everything. Within three days I was shipped a complete replacement loaner S system mirroring mine, and mine was shipped off to Germany for a vaca.

The gear came back after 3 months, and again, the swap was effortless on the return.

Everything now works as it should.

Go figure. They treated me fairly, very professionally, and with great courtesy.

Not sure I could have asked for more as a working pro.

But hey, I'm just the one guy.

I fully appreciate and agree with what you've said. As you correctly acknowledge it comes down to each persons personal experience. I can't argue that your camera didn't fail. But what would your opinion have been if it failed continuously for 12 months and they failed to provide you with any form of compensation?

The camera I purchased appears to have been a lemon. Rather than replace my faulty equipment from the beginning they chose to repair it... more than once. Had they replaced it with equipment that worked I wouldn't have a problem. I had a faulty Sony A7R which Sony replaced with an A7RII and I was happy. They accepted the fault was with their equipment and they resolved it in a way that made me happy with their service. I'm not claiming that every other brand is fault free. I acknowledge that I have had problems with all my equipment. What matters is how the company responsible deal with the problem. In my case I can't go for a single week without having problems. On the first dozen occasions I gave Leica the benefit of the doubt. I hoped they would resolve the problems and find a solution... but as the months dragged on and my work was interrupted time and time again with problems I told them that I'd had enough. I don't know how any reasonable person could argue with my approach.

As I mentioned in the previous post they even gave me the direct contact details for the chief engineer on the S system. They told me they don't do this but as my situation was unusual and as I had conducted myself politely they didn't feel it was a problem.

So, after 12 months of ongoing problems I told Leica I'd had enough and wanted a refund. I did this within my 12 month warranty period but they have refused to do this and refused to offer a replacement.

There's nothing else I can do other than threaten legal action. I have equipment that doesn't work and they have my money. What would you do?