Alpa Telephoto options ~300mm

[dchew]

I would like to figure out how to connect a longer lens to the STC. It appears I have a few options:

1. Schneider 210: Just find a discontinued sk apo-digitar 210 f/6.8. I'm not thrilled about this option because the barrel is so long. I'd much prefer a custom "double-short barrel" that required (2) 34mm adapters. Also 210 isn't really long enough; I already have a 150. I'd prefer something at least 250mm.

2. Adapt to a Zeiss 350 SA: I like what Jamgolf did by getting the cambo to HB adapter. Not sure if something could be done to go from HB to Alpa, but maybe Grimes could help. Still, this lens seems quite big.

3. Get the Novoflex bellows: This adapter goes from the camera to the Novoflex bellows: Alpa bellows adapter. Then add the bellows and rails: Novoflex_BALPRO_1_BALPRO_1_Universal_Bellows. And last, find an sk or rodi ~300mm with at least a 90-100mm image circle. Has anyone done something like this before? I'm not sure it would save any space / weight over option 2, but the lens itself would be much lighter and I could pack it easier (not one long skinny space).

Curious if anyone has experimented with Alpa and longer lenses? I don't want to go the FPS route because of cost and weight, and with the new ES feature I don't need a shutter. Also, any recommendations on LF lenses in the > 250mm range? I don't need large image circles. Even 70mm would work if I had to. the camera body will vignette anyway if I try to shift too far.

Dave

 

[gerald.d]

Hi -

Silex + electronic lens adapter + Mamiya adapter + Mamiya 300/2.8 would do it, no?



Kind regards,


Gerald.

 

[gerald.d]

Actually, you've got me scratching my head now.

Do you even need the Silex and lens control for this? Is there not a combination of adapters that would allow you to mount the Mamiya to the STC without needing the electronic stuff?

 

[voidshatter]

A while ago I also looked into such matter but eventually gave up.

Since you are mentioning Alpa, I am making the assumption that the telephoto lens is used for landscape purposes. For my preference, Alpa (and other technical cameras) may be the best solution for wide angle with shift, however it is not the case for telephoto.

There is a difference between wide angle and telephoto: for wide angle I always wanted to shoot as close as possible to maximize the perspective distortion effect for visual impact - I either shoot close enough, or my lens is not wide enough; while for telephoto the correct focal length is more important because re-locating is usually less practical for framing the shot.

Thus for me a prime lens is desired for wide angle, while a zoom lens is more convenient for telephoto.

Something like a Nikon 80-400mm or Nikon 200-500mm or Canon 200-400mm with built-in 1.4x extender is a lot more practical and is what I would prefer over the Alpa telephoto lenses.

 

[dchew]

Actually, you've got me scratching my head now.

Do you even need the Silex and lens control for this? Is there not a combination of adapters that would allow you to mount the Mamiya to the STC without needing the electronic stuff?

Thanks Gerald, I just need a lens with an f-stop diaphragm I can control. I don't think I need anything else so yes just the Mamiya lens would work. But did I mention weight and space?


Dave

 

[dchew]

A while ago I also looked into such matter but eventually gave up.

Since you are mentioning Alpa, I am making the assumption that the telephoto lens is used for landscape purposes. For my preference, Alpa (and other technical cameras) may be the best solution for wide angle with shift, however it is not the case for telephoto.

There is a difference between wide angle and telephoto: for wide angle I always wanted to shoot as close as possible to maximize the perspective distortion effect for visual impact - I either shoot close enough, or my lens is not wide enough; while for telephoto the correct focal length is more important because re-locating is usually less practical for framing the shot.

Thus for me a prime lens is desired for wide angle, while a zoom lens is more convenient for telephoto.

Something like a Nikon 80-400mm or Nikon 200-500mm or Canon 200-400mm with built-in 1.4x extender is a lot more practical and is what I would prefer over the Alpa telephoto lenses.

Yunli,
While I agree, I'm carrying around the whole 40/60/90/150 kit. I'd prefer not to switch camera systems just to frame a longer focal length. I currently have the A7RII and a Leica 180 R apo. I put that in the top of the bag and currently do what you suggest. Maybe that will continue to be the best solution...

Dave

 

[gerald.d]

Ok brain in gear now.

You don't need the Silex at all of course.

To get the Mamiya 300 on the FPS you use the Mamiya adapter and the 11mm FPS adapter.

To get it on the FPS/STC combination, you just use the Mamiya adapter.

To get it on the STC, you would use the Mamiya adapter and whichever standard adapter is the same depth as the lens mount to back mount of the FPS. I'm not sure which one this would be, but I'm sure Alpa or CI could answer in a heartbeat.

Kind regards,


Gerald.

 

[gerald.d]

Thanks Gerald, I just need a lens with an f-stop diaphragm I can control. I don't think I need anything else so yes just the Mamiya lens would work. But did I mention weight and space?


Dave

Repeat after me.

F/2.8
F/2.8
F/2.8

Also - comes with a complete set of drop-in rear filters.

And no, you can't buy mine :ROTFL:

(and of course with the 2x converter, you also have a 600/5.6 option!)

 

[Geoff]

Ok brain in gear now.

You don't need the Silex at all of course.

To get the Mamiya 300 on the FPS you use the Mamiya adapter and the 11mm FPS adapter.

To get it on the FPS/STC combination, you just use the Mamiya adapter.

To get it on the STC, you would use the Mamiya adapter and whichever standard adapter is the same depth as the lens mount to back mount of the FPS. I'm not sure which one this would be, but I'm sure Alpa or CI could answer in a heartbeat.

Kind regards,
Gerald.

For use on the STC, don't you need a means to control a shutter?

 

[dchew]

For use on the STC, don't you need a means to control a shutter?

I'm ok with using the ES on the IQ3 100.

 

[voidshatter]

Yunli,
While I agree, I'm carrying around the whole 40/60/90/150 kit. I'd prefer not to switch camera systems just to frame a longer focal length. I currently have the A7RII and a Leica 180 R apo. I put that in the top of the bag and currently do what you suggest. Maybe that will continue to be the best solution...

Dave

Here are some numbers:

Nikon 300mm f/4E PF ED VR: 755 g
Nikon 80-400mm AF-S VR: 1570 g
Sony A7R-II: 582 g
Metabones or whatever adapter: perhaps < 200 g?

Schneider Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/250mm, SB34: 1230 g
Schneider Apo-Digitar 6.8/210 mm T, SB34: 890 g
Rodenstock HR Digaron-S 5.6/180 mm, SB34: 950 g
Schneider Apo-Digitar 5.6/150 mm N, SB34: 700 g
Schneider / ALPA Apo-Helvetar 5.6/120 mm aspheric, SB34: 530 g
ALPA HR Alpagon 5.6/90 mm, SB34: 880 g
ALPA tilt/swing adapter 0° - 5°, 34 mm: 210 g

The problem here with the Alpa telephoto lenses is that the total weight accumulates ridiculously high because the lens barrel part is redundant among multiple lenses. One single zoom lens like the Nikon 80-400mm covers a decent range of focal lengths and only weighs 1.5kg alone.

Sure, the Alpa lenses are optically better, but at the cost of significant weight, which looks less practical to me.

 

[dchew]

Here are some numbers:
The problem here with the Alpa telephoto lenses is that the total weight accumulates ridiculously high because the lens barrel part is redundant among multiple lenses. One single zoom lens like the Nikon 80-400mm covers a decent range of focal lengths and only weighs 1.5kg alone.

Sure, the Alpa lenses are optically better, but at the cost of significant weight, which looks less practical to me.

Thanks for the weights. I agree about the Alpa lens barrel. That's why I was thinking of the Novoflex bellows with a lens in the 210-350mm, but board-mounted onto the end of the Novoflex. The Leica 180 + A7RII + R to FE adapter is 1,662 gm, not counting a lens collar.

Dave

 

[Shashin]

Could you use the Alpa Novoflex bellows adapter and Novoflex bellows to mount a 4x5 300mm lens--brand of your choice. I assume you could get a lens board. It should pack down quite a bit and so save space. Maybe a bit of weight. You would then get movements. Never mind...

Just saw your post--the bellows idea could be really flexible as you could potentially put many focal lengths on it.

 

[dchew]

Could you use the Alpa Novoflex bellows adapter and Novoflex bellows to mount a 4x5 300mm lens--brand of your choice. I assume you could get a lens board. It should pack down quite a bit and so save space. Maybe a bit of weight. You would then get movements. Never mind...

Just saw your post--the bellows idea could be really flexible as you could potentially put many focal lengths on it.

That's exactly where my head is. To me space is just as important as weight if not more so. Now I just have to find a good 300mm 4x5 lens...

I like Gerald's point about the Mamiya, but at 6+ pounds it just won't go with me very often.

Dave

 

[voidshatter]

That's exactly where my head is. To me space is just as important as weight if not more so. Now I just have to find a good 300mm 4x5 lens...

I like Gerald's point about the Mamiya, but at 6+ pounds it just won't go with me very often.

Dave

I'd surely be keen to see whether you could find a light-weighted and small-sized solution! The bellow idea looks great (but not so good-looking or fool-proof as the Alpa).

If Alpa is ever looking into this thread - please make an official bellow solution (or "double-short barrel" solution) so to revive those longer Schneider lenses!

While I do not support knock-off/plagiarism, I believe the Chinese workshop who managed to convert the Canon 17mm TS-E to Alpa-mount might be able to come up with some novel ideas for this.

 

[vjbelle]

Since you are looking into the Novoflex you may also want to consider the Actus. Cambo can supply a copal 3 lens plate which would allow you to use any of the longer large format lenses. It would also eliminate the extra weight of the STC and probably comes in lighter than the STC and Novoflex and Alpa Adaptor and maybe even less money..... and you wouldn't give up using any of your Alpa mounted lenses. As I'm sure you've already considered when using longer lenses nothing, absolutely nothing can move. My longest lens is 180mm and even at that shorter focal length I take great efforts to make sure that nothing moves. You will also find that any bellows camera will be more susceptible to wind than a stand alone STC. That's the only reason I keep my STC. My next major trip is to Lofoten and I'm considering traveling only with the STC and my 60, 100 and 150mm as I expect it to be very windy.

Good luck in your venture......

Victor

 

[GrahamWelland]

Victor beat me to it ... The Actus DB with Alpa adapter can work with your existing Alpa mounted lenses. With a Copal 1 adapter and long focus rail & long bellows you can mount pretty much any long LF lens you want. In fact this is what I'm doing now although the longest so far I've used is 210mm. I'm keen to try next the Nikon T*ED tele lenses which only require 2/3 the focus rail length.

When John Milich built the first Actus Alpa adapter we tested it with the standard lens rail and Alpa mounted lenses from 23HR all the way through to the 210 APO-Digitar (although tbh I wouldn't recommend it due to the barrel overhang from the front tilt swing assembly).

With the advent of the CMOS MF backs the Actus has really changed things with usable live view. With the IQ3100 and ES it's even better as you lose all the cables.

 

[dchew]

I've been wondering about the Actus. I suppose my biggest issue with that is the mental block of using the STC for 6 years now and loving every minute of it. It just fits what I need so darn well, except for this long lens stumbling block.

Actually, Andre has apparently been lurking in the shadows and emailed me with an interesting option: The HB Zeiss 250 superachromat, which weighs in at 1010 gms. I would also need the Alpa / HB adapter and, since I already carry 34mm adapter, an additional 11mm adapter. If I wanted to crop that image once in a while to zoom in it wouldn't be the worst thing.

Probably also some way to stabilize the whole thing, but I would put all the 45mm of adapters behind the STC anyway. Yeah Victor I agree with you; I did some tests a few months ago with my sk 150 and the IQ3 100 before the whole ES firmware upgrade. I had to be very careful in how I used the release cord. The slightest tug ruined the image.

So if anyone has a Zeiss 250 SA sitting around bored in a closet somewhere, let me know!
:watch:

Dave

 

[vjbelle]

Yeah Victor I agree with you; I did some tests a few months ago with my sk 150 and the IQ3 100 before the whole ES firmware upgrade. I had to be very careful in how I used the release cord. The slightest tug ruined the image.

Dave

Dave... been there done that so many times.... I even went to cloth release cords thinking that would make a difference but it didn't. The ES did!!! Don't make any rash moves...

Best.....

Victor

 

[GrahamWelland]

I've been wondering about the Actus. I suppose my biggest issue with that is the mental block of using the STC for 6 years now and loving every minute of it. It just fits what I need so darn well, except for this long lens stumbling block.

One of the advantages of the Alpa STC vs something like the Actus is the rigidity of the whole assembly and lack of concern about bellows (or should I say sails if you're sticking a 300mm out there). I absolutely agree about putting the spacers on the back side of the body as it balances things out. The good news of course with even multiple spacers or tilt assemblies is that in my experience there is no play in them even with a couple together.