An Icelandic Saga (learning from my mistakes!)

[carstenw]

I was using a Gitzo aluminium GT2330 with Manfortto 322RC2 ball head - a combo I chose for weight, apparent sturdiness, and the fact that it packs into my suitcase. The strange thing was that nearly all shots at between 1/25th and 1/80th were lost, regardless of wind conditions, whereas some at 1/4 second survived. I did lose one rubber foot somewhere so the footing maybe wasn't so great, and the base was often snow or fine volcanic sand so maybe those were issues - but I have a sneaky feeling that there's some kind of oscillation in the rig, even with MUP and release, that comes purely from the shutter...

This reminds me of something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs

Like Stuart, I suspect your ballhead, but a little wind can do freaky things. Changing the weight or height of the tripod setup could change the harmonic frequency, and thus potentially avoid problems. The trick is to detect the problem. I guess a laptop is the way to go, since the image banks don't understand Phase files.

Interestingly, two aspects of the S2 design may have avoided this problem. First of all, the screen is much higher res than the other MF screens, coming close to a D3x, and secondly, the file format is DNG, so it is possible that image banks could view the photos, giving you a closer look at the results on a larger screen, without carrying around a laptop. Food for thought.

Care to post a sample image which was ruined by vibration?

 

[carstenw]

Just a thought: how long did you wait after mirror lockup before releasing? Michael Reichmann discusses this in his P65+ article, and found that he had to increase the delay from 3s to 6s.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I have done quite a bit on it. I have not noticed any problems with it. I think if you are going to use the BH-55, you should get a heavy enough tripod (3000 series or more for gitzo) in order for the tripod not to be too top heavy. On a light tripod, the BH-40 will hold it as solid as the legs can hold....I think the weak point is more often the legs than the head.

Anyway, your experience may be different, but for me, I have never noticed that the BH-40 was not up to the task. The biggest and heaviest lens/camera combo I have is the Rollei 6008 with 180/2.8 and 1.4x TC. It worked for that.

 

[carstenw]

I suppose it also depends on the tripod, as you say. The Gitzo carbon tripods have a great reputation for strength and light weight, but they are rather expensive, and don't score nearly as well in vibration tests as something like a Berlebach. Does anyone have any experience with travelling with a Berlebach, perhaps something like this one:

http://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=8

 

[Paratom]

Tashley,
thanks for thispost which is fun to read.
On my last winter location I brought both the Hy6 system and the D3x and I have to agree with you. I even sometimes carried both systems with me (I can do this because I can put one big bag on the "Kinderwagen"
There were some situations where the D3x just allowed me to reliable take images where the Hy6 was just not doing it.
Example: we visited a glacier where you could go into the ice - pretty crowded, dim light, people would come and go and it was very tight. No place where you want to build up a tripod.
With the D3x just go to ISO 1600 and shoot at f2.8 and you are fine.
Sometimes it is nice to slow down using the MF system.
But sometimes its also good to be fast, have AF, higher usable ISO, a little bit more DOF at comparable f-stops, and maybe even a zoom lens.
Specially if it is cold, or if the light changes quickly, or if the subject is moving.

 

[Jack]

Hi Tim:

Re number 3: Which camera base profile did you use and then which base curve in C1?

(PS: This choice can and often does make a significant difference in how C1 renders the final )

Cheers,

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Got to run to a all day job. Real simple on the AFDIII body . Mirror lockup set self -timer to 3 seconds or more . Hit the shutter the self-timer goes and you got a shot. Now I get excellent results with all my lenses with this technique. The only time was high winds in Sedona with my 300mm the wind was gusting around 25 miles and hour and very low light. My 150mm I have gone minutes with no issues. No cable releases needed when using the self timer and that goes all the way to 30 seconds with camera after that and longer times I go to the electronic release. This has been with a 2 series Gitzo. I did order a 3 series just waiting for it to come. But my issues have been very rare and BTW the Phase back screen you can tell on the LCD if your sharp or not. You DON"T need a 3 inch LCD to check this or a laptop. I do this everyday with a Phase one back. Also the S2 is not higher res LCD than anything else in MF from my understanding just bigger. Need to check the specs but I think a Nikon has a bigger pixel count.

 

[John Black]

Carsten - image banks do not support the M8's DNG's, so I would not assume a S2's files would be supported (ie - viewable) either. With both the M8 and ZD I shoot RAW+their basic JPEG and use an Epson P5000 afterwards. Reviewing images at the end of day won't change what was already shot. But it does help me adjust (if needed) for the next day.

 

[carstenw]

Guy, the S2 has a 460.000 dot screen, which compares to the Nikon's 920.000 dots. This makes it higher res than anything except the latest Nikons and Canons.

John, I wasn't thinking of a product called Image Bank, in case there is something like that, but rather, about the general product. For example, the Hyperdrive Colorspace UDMA apparently even has support for some medium-format file types, like Leaf MOS:

http://www.hyperdrive.com/HyperDrive-COLORSPACE-UDMA-s/64.htm

Maybe it even supports Phase One files? This device is getting rave reviews and I am considering picking one up.

 

[Jack]

Carsten: Ability to resolve detail is about the size of the dots, not the total amount of dots; IOW a smaller screen may not have as many dots as a larger screen, but the smaller screen could have smaller dots and thus render absolute detail more finely.

Cheers,

 

[carstenw]

I think all the screens are 3" now, aren't they, except MF which are 2", 2.2" and maybe a few 2.5"? The S2 has the same resolution as the iPhone, so there is a quick way to get an idea. I'll have to do some calculations to see what the dpi is of the Phase screens compared to the S2. Hmm. Anyway, if the size of the dots is too large, can't you just move your head back? I still think that the screen size is important to judge focus, simply because you need enough context to judge it.

 

[tashley]

This reminds me of something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs

Like Stuart, I suspect your ballhead, but a little wind can do freaky things. Changing the weight or height of the tripod setup could change the harmonic frequency, and thus potentially avoid problems. The trick is to detect the problem. I guess a laptop is the way to go, since the image banks don't understand Phase files.

Interestingly, two aspects of the S2 design may have avoided this problem. First of all, the screen is much higher res than the other MF screens, coming close to a D3x, and secondly, the file format is DNG, so it is possible that image banks could view the photos, giving you a closer look at the results on a larger screen, without carrying around a laptop. Food for thought.

Care to post a sample image which was ruined by vibration?

You might be right but i have used that ballhead (which is built like an tank and has a really stiff grip) on my frotto tripod with much longer lenses (450 equiv) with no issues and in more wind but on 35mm sensors.

Here's a 100% crop from one of the shots I've posted on my Zenfolio - it looks OK at small sizes only for obvious reasons!
View attachment 13426

 

[Dale Allyn]

Tim, you had lots of "home work" this a.m. with all those replies. Thanks for replying to my post.

Like others have suggested (and you surmised) it sounds like you were a bit under-gunned for support. I'll know not to chicken-out and go too light now, thanks.

Also, not sure how much tripod stuff you do, but I have found that some rigs (maybe most rigs) have a "weak spot" at which certain shutter speeds challenge the setup more than others vis-a'-vis vibration. It's often in the 1/15 to 1/30 second range, but dead weight on the rig usually fixes it. My Mamiya, even with mirror up, has quite a "whack" upon shutter release so I try to weight the rig when shooting at slower speeds. That's part of why I like a robust head and heavier leg-set.

I appreciate you sharing your experiences. It's a good reminder for me not to go too light, or take shortcuts (not that you were doing that), which I can tend to do if I'm impatient.

Thanks.

 

[carstenw]

Tim, that crop is interesting. It doesn't look like general softness, but rather like a two-position blur. The "one large whack" theory seems to gain some credence here. Can you repeat it now? Does it fix it if you set the release to go off after 6 seconds?

 

[Stuart Richardson]

That photo definitely looks like it could be mirror or shutter vibration -- it appear to be exactly in the vertical direction, rather than from some sort of stability issue, which will generally be less perfectly up and down. I am sure every bit of stability helps, but this may be a camera/lens thing. It would be worth exploring with that camera/lens/tripod/head combination again in the studio or at home to see if you still get the same vibration in a controlled environment. If so, you have probably found your culprit.

 

[Dale Allyn]

In studio I have seen similar vibration (with close-up and macro), but I now hang sandbags from the center, beneath the camera/head, and on all three legs. This has stopped this "chop" looking vibration. In fact, with one combo I used to place a sandbag right on top of the camera because it was stubborn.

We see this in photomicroscopy much more, and weighting over a super-stable floor is mandatory. We often resort to steel plates and weights all around the setup.

 

[tashley]

Tim -- I used to use one of those grip ballheads, and did not find it to be very stable. I switched to Really Right Stuff and never looked back. The BH-40 is tiny, but very very steady.

Thanks Stuart, I'll take a look at it: in the meantime I'm going to try my Frotto 405 pro geared head with the tripod. I think it's the tripod.

Best

t

 

[tashley]

Just a thought: how long did you wait after mirror lockup before releasing? Michael Reichmann discusses this in his P65+ article, and found that he had to increase the delay from 3s to 6s.

That was my other plan on reflection... I think the mirror slap doesn't damp quickly on an aluminium tripod rig so longer is better.

 

[tashley]

Tashley,
thanks for thispost which is fun to read.
On my last winter location I brought both the Hy6 system and the D3x and I have to agree with you. I even sometimes carried both systems with me (I can do this because I can put one big bag on the "Kinderwagen"
There were some situations where the D3x just allowed me to reliable take images where the Hy6 was just not doing it.
Example: we visited a glacier where you could go into the ice - pretty crowded, dim light, people would come and go and it was very tight. No place where you want to build up a tripod.
With the D3x just go to ISO 1600 and shoot at f2.8 and you are fine.
Sometimes it is nice to slow down using the MF system.
But sometimes its also good to be fast, have AF, higher usable ISO, a little bit more DOF at comparable f-stops, and maybe even a zoom lens.
Specially if it is cold, or if the light changes quickly, or if the subject is moving.

I can sense the inevitability of a D£x... ;-)

 

[tashley]

Hi Tim:

Re number 3: Which camera base profile did you use and then which base curve in C1?

(PS: This choice can and often does make a significant difference in how C1 renders the final )

Cheers,

Hi Jack,

Tried flash and daylight and all the curves - the red channel is just blown but it's OK because it exports into LR as a tiff and can be cleaned up adequately there. It's the extreme reflectivity in bright sunlight of Icelandic fishermen's high vis jackets and trousers that does it!