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Thread: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Isn't this due out about now?

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Hi
    I don't own it, but I did have two separate opportunities to play with it.
    Recently at a hasselblad open house on the H3D2-50.
    While it's not a substitue for a proper technical camera, it's a god send for people like me, who shoot multiple table tops in a day on the fly, you know things like a simple groupings where your trying your hardest to pull the label of the bottles on the back row in just a bit more... a little tilt and voila.
    I also think it's cleaver, you have one adaptor but several focal lengths can work on it. so no need to multiple shift lenses.
    It also feels very positive and solidly built.
    On the negative side, both times I instantly noticed the dimmer viewfinder.
    Over all I think it's a very welcoming addition for the H shooters bag.
    hope this helps, anything in particular you were wondering about?
    am

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Thanks for the response.

    I'm looking for any first hand experience with image quality and how it integrates with the rest of the system in terms of usability in the field.

    Regards,

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Woody
    I'm looking forward to a more lengthy hands on in about a month from now.
    I will make sure to post about it then.
    best of luck
    am

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Here's a more thoughtful reply: According to the H brochure autofocus isn't linked - how easy is it to coordinate focusing and tilting? Does metering work (typically with TS lenses metering only works accurately when the lens is centered). Are locks secure? Workable with gloves on? It's not clear to me from the brochure whether movements are geared. On image quality does it deliver on the promise in the brochure that the HTS-lens-software combination delivers high definition and freedom from vignetting to the edge of the image circle (this is big if it actually works). Does the lens+HTS combo centered perform as well as the lens alone (there's actually hope on this one given the excellent performance of the 1.7x converter).

    Thanks!

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Hey all,

    in my "Afternoon with DTG" I got to play extensively with the HTS on a H3DII-50. It is an amazing piece of engineering but does have it's quirks. It acts as a 1.5x TC straight on. Metering and such only happens automatically straight on and locks when you T/S.

    The T/S locks are very secure, Woody.

    In certain positions it obstructs a control button on the grip but beyond that, it works as advertised.
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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Hey Woody,

    Its impossible to run AF through the HTS so you will have to rely on your eyes I am afraid - or use Live Video if you are working on Still Life.

    - Locks are very secure

    - The dials have been enlarged so yes, I think you could work with gloves - although I have not tried this! There is also a lip between the nob and the lock so you don't accidentally lock the movement.

    - Movements are geared

    - Freedom from Vignetting. Yes, as the HTS will display what movements are applied on the camera LCD, which are written into the image file and then corrected in Phocus.

    - Optical performance is really very good. I was looking at some sample prints today and you would not be disappointed.

    Best,


    David

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    I have one on order but my understanding is that although officially released -- still not getting to dealers as of yet. I have communicated with a couple of people who have had one to test out and they have been impressed.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hey Woody,

    Its impossible to run AF through the HTS so you will have to rely on your eyes I am afraid - or use Live Video if you are working on Still Life.

    - Locks are very secure

    - The dials have been enlarged so yes, I think you could work with gloves - although I have not tried this! There is also a lip between the nob and the lock so you don't accidentally lock the movement.

    - Movements are geared

    - Freedom from Vignetting. Yes, as the HTS will display what movements are applied on the camera LCD, which are written into the image file and then corrected in Phocus.

    - Optical performance is really very good. I was looking at some sample prints today and you would not be disappointed.

    Best,


    David
    David it is my understanding that the longest lens usable on the hts is 100mm? so if you what to use 120 macro you can't?
    Hope I am wrong about this.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    You are correct, you cannot use the 120mm macro with the HTS 1.5

    Quote Originally Posted by paulmoore View Post
    David it is my understanding that the longest lens usable on the hts is 100mm? so if you what to use 120 macro you can't?
    Hope I am wrong about this.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    You are correct, you cannot use the 120mm macro with the HTS 1.5
    Remember though there is multiplication factor of 1.5 so 100 = 150 etc etc.

    So if you want Macro Capability why not the 80mm + Extension tube(s)?

    David

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Remember though there is multiplication factor of 1.5 so 100 = 150 etc etc.

    So if you want Macro Capability why not the 80mm + Extension tube(s)?

    David
    sure that would work....but why then is there even a need for a 120 macro?
    (cause its better?) I agree that the 120 x1.5 is getting long for a lot of shots, so maybe they need a 90 macro..
    I have not tried the lenses but would always go with a macro lens for still life work over a "normal" lens..could be the macros are not needed anymore with all the software enhancements available now..mtf's created as needed.
    is there any exposure compensation needed with the hts?

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulmoore View Post
    sure that would work....but why then is there even a need for a 120 macro?
    (cause its better?) I agree that the 120 x1.5 is getting long for a lot of shots, so maybe they need a 90 macro..
    I have not tried the lenses but would always go with a macro lens for still life work over a "normal" lens..could be the macros are not needed anymore with all the software enhancements available now..mtf's created as needed.
    is there any exposure compensation needed with the hts?
    Because the HTS only existed very recently so there was always going to be a 120 macro in the lens range.

    We have had extremely good feedback so far regarding its use, so I would assume that users are happy with the image quality.

    Have a look at the datasheet as that has lots of info regarding exp comp, tilt shift, etc...

    http://www.hasselblad.com/media/1332...tasheet_v6.pdf

    David

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    I have used the 50-110, 100, and 150 and 210 with an extension tube(s) and while I find the images to be quite reasonable they still do not match the 120mm macro in the close up range. Also it should be noted that the macro can be combined with the extension tubes to get to a more than 1:1 size. I know there is a chart somewhere on the hasselblad extension tubes and the max ratio.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Because the HTS only existed very recently so there was always going to be a 120 macro in the lens range.

    We have had extremely good feedback so far regarding its use, so I would assume that users are happy with the image quality.

    Have a look at the datasheet as that has lots of info regarding exp comp, tilt shift, etc...

    http://www.hasselblad.com/media/1332...tasheet_v6.pdf

    David

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Yep!

    I will see if we have done anything for the HTS - it would be very useful.

    David

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    This is taken directly from the HTS 1.5 documentation on the Hasselblad site:
    ----
    The HTS 1.5 is not compatible with:
    The H1,7X converter
    The CF lens adapter
    HC 50-110 mm
    HCD 35-90 mm
    HC 120 mm
    Autofocus / focus confirmation (disabled)
    ----
    If the only thing which will not work for the 120 is autofocus/focus confirmation, I don't see a problem. However, David says autofocus doesn't work with any of the lenses. Is that last statement the penalty for the ones it works for? Why would that statement be grouped with the "not compatibles"? I think someone needs to do some work on clarifying the document.

    Could it be that the only penalty is that autofocus does not work at all with the 120 while for the others it works when not tilted?
    Last edited by gss; 18th March 2009 at 12:45. Reason: clarification of a question

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    The 120 lens physically won't fit.

    If you read the document carefully it does note that other lenses will fit but the HTS is not optically optimised for them - so it is at your risk.

    Autofocus is disabled for all lenses regardless of settings, hence being in the not compatible section.

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    Member Paul Claesson Hasselblad's Avatar
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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by gss View Post
    If the only thing which will not work for the 120 is autofocus/focus confirmation, I don't see a problem. However, David says autofocus doesn't work with any of the lenses. Is that last statement the penalty for the ones it works for? Why would that statement be grouped with the "not compatibles"? I think someone needs to do some work on clarifying the document.

    Could it be that the only penalty is that autofocus does not work at all with the 120 while for the others it works when not tilted?
    The 120mm lens barrel is to large and this prevents this lens from attaching to the HTS. If you view the datasheet for the HTS you will see where tilt rail on the left side and rail and sensor housing on the right side prevent the barrel of the lens from connecting to the lens mount on the HTS. I hope this description helps.

    Autofocus will not work with any lens, this includes 28mm to 100mm.

    Paul CLaesson
    Hasselblad USA

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Just to add to this thread the 80mm is an incredibly sharp lens, check out the MTFs (if that's your thing) I think the 80mm with a couple of tubes would be a pretty good substitute for the 120 Macro.
    Nick-T

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Just since you were asking if anyone has seen it, I saw it yesterday -- two German photographers were using it at Jökulsárlón, the iceberg lagoon in the east of Iceland. They said they had rented it, so they did not know yet how good it was. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting place to see one! I think they may have been using it more for its teleconverter possibilities than for its shifting -- there were some seals resting on an ice floe and it did not look like they had a very long lens.

    It was in this place, though this is an old photo...I have not gone through the ones I took there yesterday yet.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Just since you were asking if anyone has seen it, I saw it yesterday -- two German photographers were using it at Jökulsárlón, the iceberg lagoon in the east of Iceland. They said they had rented it, so they did not know yet how good it was. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting place to see one! I think they may have been using it more for its teleconverter possibilities than for its shifting -- there were some seals resting on an ice floe and it did not look like they had a very long lens.

    It was in this place, though this is an old photo...I have not gone through the ones I took there yesterday yet.

    Aaah, sigh, that cool, flat but not flat Icelandic light... me like...

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Here's a link to a thread on another forum where is user is sharing his experience. LL forum

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Another link - this one to a members only forum so it may or may not work:
    http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.co...pic,423.0.html

    It's interesting that the user was dissatisfied (color shifts and it doesn't work well with the 100 - but Hasselblad doesn't claim that it is compatible with the 100!) and returned it to the dealer.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Another link - this one to a members only forum so it may or may not work:
    http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.co...pic,423.0.html

    It's interesting that the user was dissatisfied (color shifts and it doesn't work well with the 100 - but Hasselblad doesn't claim that it is compatible with the 100!) and returned it to the dealer.
    Woody - His other issue is that using the new 50 MP back, he doesn't have live view yet. So focusing was take a shot and see then adjust and see, etc... I wonder if he would have been happy with the corrections and live view on the 39 MP back?

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Well mine is coming next week !

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Well i got the HTS but my camera is in for a repair--- scratched the sensor filter -- so probably another week or two until i can give it a spin.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    So . . . a bit of time has passed here. Is anyone using the HTS 1.5? Reactions? I'm interested mainly in IQ issues (it has to be very, very good to be competitive with digitar glass on an Arca or Horseman).

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Have not tried myself, but heared not so good things about it

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Have not tried myself, but heared not so good things about it

    really from users? or is thsi just more internet 'noise' hmm?

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    So . . . a bit of time has passed here. Is anyone using the HTS 1.5? Reactions? I'm interested mainly in IQ issues (it has to be very, very good to be competitive with digitar glass on an Arca or Horseman).
    I didn't get the impression that it was in competition with tech cameras ... but rather a portable way to use your existing lenses. For one thing you can't go nearly as wide as with a tech camera.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    really from users? or is thsi just more internet 'noise' hmm?
    I am just using my grey cells for this: you put a lens between the lens and the camera to allow for these adjustment you want to achieve. No matter how good this lens is, it first has to amplify what the original lens produces in order to offer its service.

    This cannot be really good quality. Just all my experiences with teleconverters from different brans tell me this.

    Better would be a TS lens. Or tech camera.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Peter, do you really think it is fair to say that you heard bad things about it when you just think that there must be a quality loss?

    For sure there is a quality loss, but I have not heard anyone who can see it. It is not uncommon for good lenses to be able to handle a good 1.4x converter without noticeable loss of quality, and this is a 1.5x converter.

    IMO the biggest problem with the HTS is not quality, but the fact that there are no lenses with which you can stitch to get more coverage than without the HTS. In other words, if you put the 28 on this, it becomes a 42mm. If you then stich up, down, left, right, you get 28mm back. That renders it useless for some purposes. Not for others though.
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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Peter, do you really think it is fair to say that you heard bad things about it when you just think that there must be a quality loss?

    For sure there is a quality loss, but I have not heard anyone who can see it. It is not uncommon for good lenses to be able to handle a good 1.4x converter without noticeable loss of quality, and this is a 1.5x converter.

    IMO the biggest problem with the HTS is not quality, but the fact that there are no lenses with which you can stitch to get more coverage than without the HTS. In other words, if you put the 28 on this, it becomes a 42mm. If you then stich up, down, left, right, you get 28mm back. That renders it useless for some purposes. Not for others though.
    Carsten

    you always can amplify and also in optical! But with any amplification you also increase distortions, which are always there.

    WRT good lenses - I used converters with Leica glass, Nikon and Canon and while you get certain advantages I never liked the real final IQ.

    This is even worse wit MF glass. I am not saying that this solution is useless, what I say is that I doubt it coms close to the IQ of a real TS lens.

    PS: BTW I also heard about these issues from folks who should know, because they deal with it day in day out! So it is not just my humble opinion ....
    Last edited by ptomsu; 3rd May 2009 at 01:01.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Have not tried myself, but heared not so good things about it
    Where did you hear this? Specific links please. Thank you.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I am just using my grey cells for this: you put a lens between the lens and the camera to allow for these adjustment you want to achieve. No matter how good this lens is, it first has to amplify what the original lens produces in order to offer its service.

    This cannot be really good quality. Just all my experiences with teleconverters from different brans tell me this.

    Better would be a TS lens. Or tech camera.
    Which different brands? Please be specific because there are teleconverters like those from Leica and some from Zeiss that are better than those from Canon or Sigma.

    I'd agree on the tech camera being better for all the reasons a tech camera excells at over any MF solution. Can't say about the T/S lens verses this ... depends on the lens.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    I am also possibly interested in the HTS 1.5 for use with my H2 primes. However I tried the H 1.7 teleconverter with one of these top H primes (with 45+ back) and ended up sending the teleconverter back to B&H for return....on critical examination, the TC results just didn't match the resolution of the primes by themselves. Eleanor

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Carsten

    you always can amplify and also in optical! But with any amplification you also increase distortions, which are always there.

    WRT good lenses - I used converters with Leica glass, Nikon and Canon and while you get certain advantages I never liked the real final IQ.

    This is even worse wit MF glass. I am not saying that this solution is useless, what I say is that I doubt it coms close to the IQ of a real TS lens.

    PS: BTW I also heard about these issues from folks who should know, because they deal with it day in day out! So it is not just my humble opinion ....

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Where did you hear this? Specific links please. Thank you.
    Well,

    I do not have this information from the Internet, but I know some folks around who are using this type of equipment and they told me.

    I think in the end of the day you need to make your own judgement if the HTS 1.5 is what you want and need. Restrictions will never go away, the question is if you need more and better quality.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Which different brands? Please be specific because there are teleconverters like those from Leica and some from Zeiss that are better than those from Canon or Sigma.

    I'd agree on the tech camera being better for all the reasons a tech camera excells at over any MF solution. Can't say about the T/S lens verses this ... depends on the lens.
    I mentioned in a previous post that I do not exclude ANY brand. I had Leica with Leica TCs, Nikon with Nikon and Canon with Canon.

    I was especially unpleased with the Leica ones, especially for the money they were asking. And I used the TC with 180 APO glass. So no bad combination, but it simply did not come up to my expectations - even in film days.

    I must say that the new Nikon TCs and Canon TCs if used in combination with the right lenses are better. As long as you use no zooms! But they are still not what I want to see and why I carry such heavy and expensive equipment around.

    So in the end of the day they most tome were staying in my backpack and this is definitely not the place where they belong

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    I liked the Leica 180mm f/2.8 and 2x APO TC. Here are two shots -- no problems with sharpness:





    100% crop with no sharpening...


    I think it is definitely possible to make a TC that is an acceptable compromise of convenience and sharpness. Of course it will not be as good as a dedicated lens, but in most cases it is a very good substitute.
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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Sure, a TC can have its benefits and lower your travel and working weight.

    But finally it is not the quality I like.

    Which does not mean that it cannot be a very valuable a great asset for others.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Sure, a TC can have its benefits and lower your travel and working weight.

    But finally it is not the quality I like.

    Which does not mean that it cannot be a very valuable a great asset for others.
    How do you KNOW all this without actually seeing what the stuff looks like first hand?

    Sure, any T/S solution that's part of the lens design is going to be some sort of a compromise compared to a high spec view camera and the new digital view lenses ... including this solution. Nothing new there.

    It's a brave new world ... and many remarkable things are being accomplished by all the back makers using a combination of mechanical engineering, lens design and software engineering. The past is no indication of what can be ... or even is.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    How do you KNOW all this without actually seeing what the stuff looks like first hand?

    Sure, any T/S solution that's part of the lens design is going to be some sort of a compromise compared to a high spec view camera and the new digital view lenses ... including this solution. Nothing new there.

    It's a brave new world ... and many remarkable things are being accomplished by all the back makers using a combination of mechanical engineering, lens design and software engineering. The past is no indication of what can be ... or even is.
    Just believe what you like to believe!

    I have my own experiences. And these tell me different things.

    As well as people who have already used this wonderful thing.

    What is wrong? Just use a mobile phone and you can get extraordinary pictures - nothing wrong here

    Or buy the HTS 1.5 and be happy! Hasselblad needs such folks like you!

    Nothing more to add, I have to work!
    Last edited by ptomsu; 4th May 2009 at 05:24.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Clearly what we have here is a clash of cultures. -

    on the hand guys who like equipment to make photos - and guys who like to chase the holy grail - the imaginary perfect optical machine!

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Clearly what we have here is a clash of cultures. -

    on the hand guys who like equipment to make photos - and guys who like to chase the holy grail - the imaginary perfect optical machine!
    Verx true

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    I have gotten a chance to try mine but not in a way i really would like. I did some close up shots and overall it is pretty simple to use and the data recorded making it simple to remember what one tried when looking back over the captured images. There is a loss of light in the viewfinder making it a bit more difficult for precise focusing. Clearly better than the canon TSE lenses but not as useful as a technical camera-- but much simpler to use. I am going to try to do some landscapes with it this week. M

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Folks,

    again, the HTS 1.5 can be a really good tool, if this is what you want. Only because I am not a TC and converter guy does not mean these things are bad.

    So I do hope you all like it and use it

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    i hope to buy it if the price is much much lower.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Mark would love to hear your experiences with the HTS doing landscapes. Thanks, Eleanor

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    I have gotten a chance to try mine but not in a way i really would like. I did some close up shots and overall it is pretty simple to use and the data recorded making it simple to remember what one tried when looking back over the captured images. There is a loss of light in the viewfinder making it a bit more difficult for precise focusing. Clearly better than the canon TSE lenses but not as useful as a technical camera-- but much simpler to use. I am going to try to do some landscapes with it this week. M

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by eleanorbrown View Post
    Mark would love to hear your experiences with the HTS doing landscapes. Thanks, Eleanor
    I cannot give you the benfit of extended testing of the HTS, But I did have the opportunity to test it this weekend with my H3D-39 and the HC28mm lens, both untethered and tethered to a Macbook Pro. The bottom line for me is that it is way too difficult to focus accurately without the assistance of 100% image view on the Macbook, and that's just not realistic for me in the field. The HTS I tried out is owned by a highly skilled architectural photographer who is very happy with it and uses it frequently in his work, but he only shoots with it tethered. Perhaps Hasselblad can come up with some sort of tool for magnifying the image in the viewfinder(or another type of viewfinder) so that you can focus accurately with the HTS.
    BTW, when I was done trying the HTS, I put his HC35mm lens on the camera and took two exposures at different focus points and later used Helicon Focus to blend them. I have not had a chance to look real carefully but my initial reaction was that there was excellent sharpness through the whole image, including the corners, which surprised me a bit because the HC35mm lens does not have the best reputation among the HC lenses. For now, I will stick with Helicon Focus. It is an amazing piece of software that is giving me great results in many cases. It can't do everything the HTS can do, but for my work it is the most practical way to get extended DOF.

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    Re: Has anyone seen or tried an HTS 1.5?

    I took it with me to Half Moon Bay a couple of weeks ago when i went shooting with some colleagues. It was raining the whole afternoon so never too it out. I am on my way to Keystone Colorado on Wed and have it packed in my backpack and hope to get a chance to do some shooting during break times at the conference i am attending.
    Eleanor thanks for the tips on shooting areas. I have all the information and planning to go through it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eleanorbrown View Post
    Mark would love to hear your experiences with the HTS doing landscapes. Thanks, Eleanor

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