Iq3 100

[tashley]

I'm rapidly going off the idea of the X1D and am thinking for trading my IQ180 for an IQ3 100 with XF body. It's a huge financial commitment!

I have been using the IQ180 on an Alpa STC with Rodie 40HR on and off, but eventually started to find the need to make accurate LCC shots very tedious. My use of the system took a nose dive when in one upgrade cycle of Capture One, it lost all the links between my images and their associated LCC shots.

So I have a simple question: the 100mp IQ3 is CMOS sensor not a CCD and I wonder whether LCC shots would still be needed on that sensor when using a lens/body combo such as the Alpa and the Rodie 40HR? If not, great. If so, are there any there lenses of about that focal length for use on the Alpa that could be deployed without LCC?

Additionally, if anyone who has the IQ3 100 and the new XF body would care to comment on how much of an improvement the system is over an IQ180 and DF body, I'd be really interested to hear about it....

 

[Jamgolf]

I wonder whether LCC shots would still be needed on that sensor when using a lens/body combo such as the Alpa and the Rodie 40HR? If not, great. If so, are there any there lenses of about that focal length for use on the Alpa that could be deployed without LCC?

LCC shots are still very much needed, so there is no escaping that. I doubt there is any wide lens that does not require LCC.
Lenses on the long end do not need LCC, for instance 90HRSW does not require it even when shifted 20mm.

 

[gagemanning]

I'm rapidly going off the idea of the X1D and am thinking for trading my IQ180 for an IQ3 100 with XF body. It's a huge financial commitment!

I have been using the IQ180 on an Alpa STC with Rodie 40HR on and off, but eventually started to find the need to make accurate LCC shots very tedious. My use of the system took a nose dive when in one upgrade cycle of Capture One, it lost all the links between my images and their associated LCC shots.

So I have a simple question: the 100mp IQ3 is CMOS sensor not a CCD and I wonder whether LCC shots would still be needed on that sensor when using a lens/body combo such as the Alpa and the Rodie 40HR? If not, great. If so, are there any there lenses of about that focal length for use on the Alpa that could be deployed without LCC?

Additionally, if anyone who has the IQ3 100 and the new XF body would care to comment on how much of an improvement the system is over an IQ180 and DF body, I'd be really interested to hear about it....

As jamgolf stated. Absolutely no way of getting by without LCC's for wide angle on technical camera with IQ3-100 (both of us own it). Didn't know that you didn't need them for telephoto type lenses thus jamgolf taught me something.

gage

 

[vjbelle]

For sure LCC files are necessary. But.... I make generic ones that work very, very well and that eliminates the need to make many in the field. It is necessary to keep track of which lens is used for which images (wish the 3100 allowed for lens focal length input). I don't shoot with the XF - way too big for me and I want movements. You will find the 3100 a huge improvement over the 180 with 'REAL' live view and the ES as standouts. I have never regretted the upgrade from the 180.

Victor

EDIT: I think you should make certain that you need 100MP. 50MP will make a very nice single shot 40 inch print and a two shot shift left and right (10mm) can make a very, very nice 48 inch print. For lots less money you could have the GFX and a Cambo and have the best of all worlds (if you can work with 50MP). I had the Leaf 50MP CMOS back and the 180 at the same time and after about a week I put the 180 on a shelf. I also shoot to print and everything I've said here comes from practical experience.....

Good luck......

 

[Paul2660]

Hi Tim,

You will find that the wides on the IQ100 still need the LCC, I am in full agreement with previous posts. The CMOS when shifted will still have color cast just like the CCD does as the wide lenses are so close to the sensor. The Rodie 40 is a great lens on the IQ100 but even at 5mm of shift will show some color cast, and of course past 5mm, you will start to see light fall off. The other issue is the CMOS backs have a similar issue to microlens ripple. However unlike microlens ripple, the banding is much more irregular and a bit more faint. However on a solid back ground it will show up on shifts. The latest LCC from P1 will get the vast majority of it. I will add, there has been a lot of negative press on the IQ100 and 50MP backs mainly in the area of color cast, in that it's vastly worse than the CCD backs. I agree that with a massive shift say 15mm to 18mm you will start to see quite a bit of color cast, Magenta, and most times it's worse than a CCD back shifted to the same amount, however C1 will correct it amazingly well. It pulls back true color and saturation which when you view the image on the back's LCD, you will think is not possible. Yes there are crosstalk issues, however in my photography I never see them.

XF IQ100 is a match made in heaven, and I do so wish it had been here 5 years sooner. The XF is vast improvement over the DF of Df+, however it's still having issues, as the 90 prism latch is both easy to hit and in some cameras loose so there is slight movement. Also the battery door on many of the XF's shipped last year turned out to be defective. My XF has both issues, I waited months for P1 to come out with the latch fix which is now supposedly shipping on new bodies, but gave up waiting (4 months?) and went ahead for the battery door fix as it was starting to create a real problem for me.

The main features I really like on the XF IQ100 combo are:

ES, a real plus with this back as I never found the seismic delay that effect for longer glass.
On a tech camera you can shoot longer exposures without having a Dark frame as long as you don't change shutter speeds, can't do this
on the XF for some strange reason unless you use the intervalometer setting.
True Live View which really make a difference for fine focus tuning
Focus bracketing, which works great as long as your subject is not moving due to wind
Power share between back and XF (IQ3 only) this saved me in my last 3 shots as my battery door totally failed on my XF and I was able
to limp along with the back battery powering both camera and back. Normally when the XF battery door works, you gain quite a bit
of life since the XF has a much lower battery consumption than the back and many times I can go all day or 3/4 of day on just 3
batteries.
Waist level finder option is great if you are used to that. I found it just too hard to adjust to everything being reversed when trying to to panos. But the size and weight difference is impressive.
I like the feel of the XF, a bit harder on the edges than the DF series of cameras but still works well in the hand.
ES is unique to P1's implementation of the 100MP (so far)

Downsides:

Massive weight of everything. Would not bother me if I was still 45, but those days are gone. I pretty much have to use a tripod all the time with the XF/100 combo. I can use the 55LS and 80LS hand held at times but 75mm and out I just need a tripod and ES to get the best results. ES needs a tripod all the time. The two main zooms, 80-40 and 75-150 are both massive in size and heavy but optically excellent.

One focus point, as always, still would like to see at least 10 like DSLR's but from talking to my dealer it seems this will not happen. I had hoped that with all the P1 hype around the new AF system, something else was coming but I guess not.

Still quite a bit of mirror slap just like the DF, in fact I would be surprised if the shutter/mirror are not just moved straight from the DF+. The ES option does fix this problem however.

Lastly, if you have shot the X1D and held it it's going to be a bit of shock when comparing the two. The X1D is truly a beautiful design and if Hasselblad had just added a few more design features it would have been harder to hold off from purchase.

Paul Caldwell

 

[voidshatter]

You would still need LCC for wide angle lenses.

The IQ3 100MP is definitely a huge upgrade over the IQ180. You get real live view, much better dynamic range especially for slow shutter speeds, and you also get rid of the tiling issues of CCD. It's a no-brainer choice! The only drawback is the not so good long exposure over 5min when compared against the 50MP 44x33 mini-format. I know quite a few people who switched from the fullframe CCD (80MP and 60MP) to the crop CMOS (50MP). Some of them were unhappy about the crop factor, and this IQ3 100MP has done it right.

 

[dchew]

Hi Tim,
I just sent some files to Peter shot with IQ3100, STC, 40hr. If you would like the link PM me and I will send it to you. They are still up on Hightail.

Various shifts w/ LCC's and one on center if I remember right.

Depending on the subject, you might get away with a straight on capture without an LCC, but as others have said in general you need one. But as Victor pointed out pretty simple to have a few in your library at various f/stops and maybe 2 or three focus points.

Dave

 

[dougpeterson]

The IQ3 100mp does a *phenomenal* job with long exposures. With the most recent firmware it does a better job than any other camera I have ever used.

Voidshatter had a very specific way he shoots (forcing the dark frame off, shooting into the sun, lifting shadows very strongly) which is not relevant for 99% of my customers. However if your use case is the same as his then his knowledge will exceed mine and be more relevant.

 

[tashley]

Thanks guys, for all that extremely useful information. Much much appreciated.

I have spent the afternoon getting quotes for an upgrade but I have also done two things that have really really reminded me why I got so p***ed off with Phase One originally, and why I have used the system so little.

Firstly, I fired up C1 to look through my library of old images shot with the IQ180 and STC/Roddie 40HR and guess what? Endless error messages saying that the LCC files couldn't be found. And though I was able to see plenty of them in the library, some were taken years ago and my notes as to which LCC shots are associated with which subject shots are long gone. Of course, now that the latest version of C1 has yet again (and maybe in some way this is my fault but it shouldn't happen anyway IMHO) lost so many of the LCC links I painfully set up at the time of the original shoot and process, I am stuck. Luckily the ones that really matter are in TIFF export format, but I now don't have the option of going back to source. Immensely frustrating and in my memory very typical.

Secondly I thought I'd update my back to the latest FW. This seems impossible. Phase One's site lists the latest as 8.02 but the site nagviagtion is terrible and I can only find 7.01.1

Every time I click on the link to FW update, I get marketing crap for the XF system and puff for Feature Update 3.

This has been a crash course down memory lane and I don't like what I've re-discovered. Rant over.

 

[Jamgolf]

Tim

I can relate to what you are saying regarding LCCs. Personally I find it difficult to keep track of which LCC goes with which image, and after a month I have no clue.

My process to deal with this is to copy/save the following info as soon as I identify an image as a keeper:

• original unprocessed RAW file
• corresponding unprocessed LCC file
• processed EIPs (with C1 adjustements etc.)
• exported TIFFs, JPEGs etc.
• any notes about the image as a text file e.g. location, conditions, settings etc.

into a separate folder (outside of C1 catalogue) on my hard drive and also on the backup disk(s).

This way, if I come back to an image a few months (or years) later, I know where to find everything.

This works for me because volume of my "keepers" is rather low.
Someone else who might have a lot of keepers might not find this approach practical.

Cheers!

 

[Pemihan]

The files Dave sent me were really helpful, you should take advantage of his offer.. Thanks again Dave!

Regarding LCC's I always shoot the actual image(s) first and then the LCC's in the same order, so I never have any issues with choosing the right LCC.

Peter

 

[stngoldberg]

Maybe it's just me, but an LCC takes just a few seconds..becomes part of the workflow and it is so easy to apply in Capture One.
I don't understand why everyone considers it such a PITA!
Stanley

 

[tashley]

Maybe it's just me, but an LCC takes just a few seconds..becomes part of the workflow and it is so easy to apply in Capture One.
I don't understand why everyone considers it such a PITA!
Stanley

It's easy enough at the time, that's for sure. It's a nightmare three years later when C1 has finished scattering files all over your hard drive and then upgraded itself into amnesia about which LCC went with which file. I always Create LCC and Apply LCC at import time but if C1 breaks that connection later, as it now has done with me on two separate upgrade cycles, then I'm left with a either a screw-up or a memory game I'm going to lose....

 

[tashley]

So guys, anyone with an IQ180 can tell me what the current FW version should be - and maybe where to find it?

 

[lance_schad]

So guys, anyone with an IQ180 can tell me what the current FW version should be - and maybe where to find it?

Here on our website.

 

[tashley]

For sure LCC files are necessary. But.... I make generic ones that work very, very well and that eliminates the need to make many in the field. It is necessary to keep track of which lens is used for which images (wish the 3100 allowed for lens focal length input). I don't shoot with the XF - way too big for me and I want movements. You will find the 3100 a huge improvement over the 180 with 'REAL' live view and the ES as standouts. I have never regretted the upgrade from the 180.

Victor

EDIT: I think you should make certain that you need 100MP. 50MP will make a very nice single shot 40 inch print and a two shot shift left and right (10mm) can make a very, very nice 48 inch print. For lots less money you could have the GFX and a Cambo and have the best of all worlds (if you can work with 50MP). I had the Leaf 50MP CMOS back and the 180 at the same time and after about a week I put the 180 on a shelf. I also shoot to print and everything I've said here comes from practical experience.....

Good luck......

I didn't realise that the GFX can be used with a Cambo - that's one loop I'm well and truly out of. Where should I find out more?

 

[vjbelle]

I didn't realise that the GFX can be used with a Cambo - that's one loop I'm well and truly out of. Where should I find out more?

From everything I have heard and read the GFX is going to interface with the Cambo Actus. Do your own due diligence but I have a great deal of confidence regarding this. This makes so much sense to me that I would not hesitate to go the route I have suggested. 50MP is lots of MP's....

Victor

 

[GrahamWelland]

Not much to add to the comparison of I3100 vs predecessors. Similarly the massive XF and new lenses are a world away from their predecessors too. It was an expensive upgrade for me but well well worth it. The difference in image quality and ease of processing raws to base images is significant in my experience - way less work required with the IQ3100 back compared to any of my other MFDBs or camera systems.

On the LCC issue, I find it best to shoot the LCCs for every shot sequence and apply in C1. After I've applied the LCCs I'll select the LCC frames again and turn off the apply light fall off / colour cast so that I can easily see which frames are shifted left / right / up / down and the degree of cast. This makes it easy to go back to an original shot that might have lost it's LCC because those shifts and drop offs with wide angle lenses become pretty obvious if you can match them with unprocessed LCC files.

40HR need LCC? Mostly. Ideally always but I don't always bother unless I've shifted.

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

From everything I have heard and read the GFX is going to interface with the Cambo Actus. Do your own due diligence but I have a great deal of confidence regarding this. This makes so much sense to me that I would not hesitate to go the route I have suggested. 50MP is lots of MP's....

Victor

Is this something which would allow for a Tilt/Shift solution?

 

[Paul2660]

Yes, it should. If the Cambo adaptaer allows for use of Rodenstock/Schneider lenses, or Canon TS lenses, then either one would allow for tilt shift.

However, it's IMO moot as there is not a good solution for color cast LCC correction. C1 will not support the camera and LR's solution is less than adequate, actually worse than adequate.

If you shift a Canon TS lens, you may be far enough away from the sensor to avoid the worst of the color cast issues, but you will still have light fall off. The Rodenstock/Schneider glass, will have massive color cast issues just like on the IQ150/250/350, with shifts past 3 to 4mm. The entire far side will be red due to color cast. The C1 fix for the IQ series of cameras is very good here. But per all the info from the "powers that know" have clearly stated C1 will not support the GFX.

You can see the exact same issue with the small A7r, RII, etc. If you shift on that camera with the Rodenstock/Schneider glass, you will have a lot of similar red color cast, which C1 can handle quite well.

Paul Caldwell

Paul Caldwell