stephengilbert
Active member
LL review of P65+: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/p65-plus-field.shtml
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Read at Your Own Risk
- Thread starter stephengilbert
- Start date
Graham Mitchell
New member
Michael has no place writing the following (it amounts to libel), and I told him as much already:
"Many of the grand names of the medium format camera industry have gone by the wayside during recent years, including Bronica, Contax, and most recently Rolleiflex / Hy6."
He is well known for his pro Phase One bias, but he has also attacked the Hy6 a few times. His behaviour undermines the value of the review of this back which is probably very good.
"Many of the grand names of the medium format camera industry have gone by the wayside during recent years, including Bronica, Contax, and most recently Rolleiflex / Hy6."
He is well known for his pro Phase One bias, but he has also attacked the Hy6 a few times. His behaviour undermines the value of the review of this back which is probably very good.
H
Howard Cubell
Guest
Truth is a defense to a libel action. Perhaps Michael knows quite a bit more than is on the public record. I don't know, but he is NOT an irresponsible or reckless guy.
stephengilbert
Active member
It was just a link to a review. I suspect as well that Reichmann's statement, while it might upset some, is not the sort of false statement of fact that would support a libel claim. After all, what does "gone by the wayside" mean?
Of course, I could be wrong; I'm not a photographer.
Of course, I could be wrong; I'm not a photographer.
Graham Mitchell
New member
He can't know anything because the insolvency/debt restructuring process has a while to go yet. Besides, Leaf already stated they will ensure that production of the Hy6/AFi will continue. So to imply that the Hy6/AFi is already dead IS a plain lie, and amounts to libel. I already communicated with someone at Leaf who agreed it was libel and told me he would ask Michael to remove it.
Michael also once reported that Sinar was out of the digital back business, and was forced to remove the statement later. I think that was around Photokina time last year.
So actually he IS irresponsible and reckless and clearly has an agenda. I've lost any respect that I had...
Funny folks mention this. I had read the "review" earlier today, and also had one of those "WTF" moments when I came across that line. Seems like he wants to bury it while still alive. This is quite irresponsible, as it does not help anybody thinking about MF alternatives and maybe not informed of all the strange and sometimes incestuous dealings behind the scenes. Besides that, nothing much in that "review" that has not been discussed with much greater depth and examples elsewhere. I was going to wait to read his next installment about the Sensor+ stuff, but honestly, I was hoping somebody on this forum gets the drop and does a more useful job. Sorry, Michael, your stuff ain't as interesting and useful as it maybe once was.
LJ
LJ
stephengilbert
Active member
So if he removes the libel, can we read the review, or not?
tashley
Subscriber Member
I generally think he's high grade but his lens review seemed not to chime with my perception of my batch of the facts... like I really don't see the 28D as having edge sharpness. And there are other reports here in particular of the Mammy/Phase 45 (I don't have one) that are less spectacular than his.
Sample variation, probably. I don't for one second think he takes the King's Shilling. But I do think that like the rest of us he gets excited.
t
D
DougDolde
Guest
Graham, I can't stand Reichmann either.
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
I have yet to see a 28mm (non Digitar-type) lens that I would say has "edge sharpness", and that includes all the usual suspects.
What I would say is that they have acceptable sharpness, given their limitations.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
Even in Canada, it would still be the "Queen's Shilling" at this point
(Just injecting some added humor, so nobody needs to get twisted off on this one, O.K.?)I have read his stuff for years. I respect his candor on lots of things. I understand the changes in how he is doing things lately. No problem with excitement. That still does not get past some of the things that he so emphatically states while other folks have shared very contrary opinions....AND shown clear examples. The 28D lens I think falls squarely in that area.
Not looking to pick on MR. Like the rest of us, he takes his pants off one leg at a time also. But he knows his exposure carries a lot of weight with lots of readers, so it just seems like he does have the added responsibility to make sure things said are not incorrect, nor muddying waters. If he knows for a fact that Hy6 is dead, lay out the proof. It is NOT, and therefore saying it is falls into the irresponsible category in my book. That starts to tarnish other things, in my mind, and makes me wonder if I really can believe what I am reading at times. Not all of us have the luxury of being able to afford to buy new stuff like he and some others can. Great for them. However, if he, and others, then turns around and says things that may be surprising to folks, especially to those that may know what things are about, he should get called out on it, and it helps the rest of us keep things on a more credible and informative path. I still enjoy a lot of what he presents on his site, but his reviews of late, and some of the off-hand comments and proclamations seem a bit of stretch at times. There. I said it. So now folks can flame me over my opinion of his opinions and questionable "facts".
LJ
H
Howard Cubell
Guest
Where did you see a statement from Leaf that it will "ensure" that Hy6/AFI production will continue? The only published report I have seen from Leaf is in the online version of BJP. Unless Leaf has the legal and financial wherewithal to take over production, two big question marks, I do not see how it is possible for Leaf to guaranty anything.
Enough said by me about this unfortunate turn of events. I have no dog in this hunt.
As for the LL review of the P65+, I also found it wanting. However, I just think it reflects the rather marginal improvements in IQ that the P65+ appears to provide compared to his P45+. Remeber the piece he did about a blind comparison between Canon G10 prints and P45 prints, and the difficulty of telling them apart in print? What does that say about comparing P45 with P65 prints? I would like to think that, after 4 years of additional R&D, Phase would have been able to achieve more. I look forward to Hasselblad's effort with a new 60mp chip so I can look for myself. Perhaps I will be seriously surprised. If so, it will be a VERY costly exercise.
Graham Mitchell
New member
It was reported indirectly here:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32568&view=findpost&p=265339
"I was informed today by Steve Goldsmith of Calumet that they just received a memo from Leaf stating that Leaf USA is going to pick up production of AFi bodies."
My wording was a little different but the basic idea is the same.
H
Howard Cubell
Guest
Where did you see a statement from Leaf that it will "ensure" that Hy6/AFI production will continue? The only published report I have seen from Leaf is in the online version of BJP. Unless Leaf has the legal and financial wherewithal to take over production, two big question marks, I do not see how it is possible for Leaf to guaranty anything.
Enough said by me about this unfortunate turn of events. I have no dog in this hunt.
As for the LL review of the P65+, I also found it wanting. However, I just think it reflects the rather marginal improvements in IQ that the P65+ appears to provide compared to his P45+. Remeber the piece he did about a blind comparison between Canon G10 prints and P45 prints, and the difficulty of telling them apart in print? What does that say about comparing P45 with P65 prints? I would like to think that, after 4 years of additional R&D, Phase would have been able to achieve more. I look forward to Hasselblad's effort with a new 60mp chip so I can look for myself. Perhaps I will be seriously surprised. If so, it will be a VERY costly exercise.
I highly doubt he that he knows a bit more. I would rather say he writes a bit more than he knows (regarding the Hy6).
I dont think it is good for the industry to spread negative speculations. In the end I personally believe that speculations like this has been a determing factor of the economic crysis.
As soon as the financial system got a problem the TV and newspapers etc. talked things worse than they were, mostly spreaded only the worst case scenarios, which made people and busines even more carefull and only made the situation worse than it allready was. Just my opinion.
The guy is entitled to his opinion ... and if some one gullibly reads any of it as absolute fact, without far deeper research, or getting some first hand knowledge under his/her belt, then that person deserves whatever happens as a result. I'm sure Hy6 readers are bristling at his implications. But obviously, it's his take on it all ... which, without documented proof, is just conjecture based on existing sparce information.
Actually, the only phrase that REALLY caught my eye was "$45,000." ... so whatever else he had to say was irrelevant. Fun to read maybe, but no bearing on me or my life what-so-ever ... including all the wordy justification stuff about "cost verses value". Even if I had upwards of $50K earmarked for digital upgrades, I just couldn't hack it with other nearly as good solutions coming in at 1/2 that amount. IMO it's the D3x syndrome, again.
Just my opinion.
Actually, the only phrase that REALLY caught my eye was "$45,000." ... so whatever else he had to say was irrelevant. Fun to read maybe, but no bearing on me or my life what-so-ever ... including all the wordy justification stuff about "cost verses value". Even if I had upwards of $50K earmarked for digital upgrades, I just couldn't hack it with other nearly as good solutions coming in at 1/2 that amount. IMO it's the D3x syndrome, again.
Just my opinion.
I agree that everbody is entitled to his opinion,
I just feel that an opinion should not sound like it was facts.
IMO if somebody spreads information and opinion in public, no matter if it is through a newspaper, TV, or a website - this means a certain responsibility IMO. Talking about something like it was dead, specially if a company is in a difficult situation, doesnt help at all.
I am not saying this because I am a Hy6 owner, but because I feel this behaviour is one of the reasons that the economic crisis came so fast and strong. We do not need to talk things worse than they allready are.
I had no problem if he had said that F&H is going through insolvency, or if he said that it is not yet clear how the future of the Hy6 will look like or even if he said it is not clear if the Hy6-system has a future.
I just feel that an opinion should not sound like it was facts.
IMO if somebody spreads information and opinion in public, no matter if it is through a newspaper, TV, or a website - this means a certain responsibility IMO. Talking about something like it was dead, specially if a company is in a difficult situation, doesnt help at all.
I am not saying this because I am a Hy6 owner, but because I feel this behaviour is one of the reasons that the economic crisis came so fast and strong. We do not need to talk things worse than they allready are.
I had no problem if he had said that F&H is going through insolvency, or if he said that it is not yet clear how the future of the Hy6 will look like or even if he said it is not clear if the Hy6-system has a future.
carstenw
Active member
I don't know... I normally enjoy Michael Reichmann's reviews, and simply take them for what they are, one guy's opinion, and not terribly deep, but something about this one doesn't sit right with me. Apart from the jab at F&H which I felt was a really needless and gruesome move, there are all kinds of little glitches, misunderstandings, typos, wrong word usage, and other errors in this article, and his usual stab at humour was somehow absent in this one. He really appears to have two sets of glasses, the rose-coloured ones and the sh*t-coloured ones, and he praises or smears as he sees fit, while attempting to make it all sound somewhat unbiased...
I don't know exactly what went wrong this time, but this was not his finest hour, quite the opposite.
I also think that he comes out sounding too positive about the back, given how little is improved and the massive price differential. 24% more linear resolution, 1/2 stop more DR, a couple of minor annoyances fixed compared to the older backs, no more 1-hour exposures, this does not add up to a $40.000 purchase order, IMO. For wealthy individual like Reichmann, or pros who print large, the balance might make for a cautious 'yes', but the kind of flowers that he bestows on the back seem a little out of proportion.
I don't know exactly what went wrong this time, but this was not his finest hour, quite the opposite.
I also think that he comes out sounding too positive about the back, given how little is improved and the massive price differential. 24% more linear resolution, 1/2 stop more DR, a couple of minor annoyances fixed compared to the older backs, no more 1-hour exposures, this does not add up to a $40.000 purchase order, IMO. For wealthy individual like Reichmann, or pros who print large, the balance might make for a cautious 'yes', but the kind of flowers that he bestows on the back seem a little out of proportion.
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tashley
Subscriber Member
I absolutely agree, 100% - but the reason people read reviews is either camera porn or because they are thinking of buying.
Anyone who reads this LL review and does not know what we all here know as commonplace (i.e. the inherent limitations of these MF systems) might make the reasonable assumption that since their best 35mm SLR glass is sharp corner to corner, then the best MF glass will compete. If they then read the following, they would have no reason to expect anything other than great corner performance on the 28D:
"Image quality, as with all of these new lenses, is very high. I had been concerned that a retrofocus lens design this wide would lead to fall-off, vignetting and soft corners, but that it not the case.'
Lord knows what the corners on a 28D really look like on the P65+ with its 'full frame' MF sensor but I would bet a fair amount that there are soft corners by most people's definitions, since we are all agreed that there are on the smaller P45+. The review also implies that the software corrections are partly responsible for these high performance levels however we all know that there are no corner sharpness corrections for the 28D in C1, short of Guy's method.
Of the 45mm he says ' the lens is both fast and amazingly sharp'. Now I don't have this one, partly because of Jack's opinion here:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4477&page=3
So all I feel (and here I'm agreeing strongly with Carsten) is that this LL review is significantly more glowing than both my own experiences and those of others here...
I'm sure his overall conclusion is correct: that short of a scanning back there's no finer IQ to be had. But some of the details seem rather rosily conveyed....
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Graham Mitchell
New member
The victim is going to be Sinar and Leaf, not a 'gullible reader', and no-one is entitled to report false information as fact. There are laws against it.