IQ3 vs IQ2 vs mid life crisis

[jdphoto]

No digital camera can last you a lifetime yet. When the 35mm format advances towards 70MP, you can expect the pricing of these 60MP digital backs to fall like what the older backs did when the Canon 5DSR/Nikon D800E was announced. It's electronic devices after all. It's just the same as how an iPhone cannot last for more than a couple of years before getting recycled. This year you cannot even surf the internet freely with an old computer running Windows 98. Be prepared to bear the depreciation in your hand, and also ready your wallet/bank accounts for the future updates. The pace of depreciation of medium format digital is not for everyone - only the wealthy ones can keep themselves in the game.

I so agree with this. I was a patsy to Big camera's planned obsolesce gimmicks of increasingly smaller upgrade cycles, but I think I've finally learned. After getting my third MFD replacement camera from Hasselblad, I quickly sold it and got a pretty good deal before the next model was issued. My biggest prints are around 16x20, and at theses sizes I cannot discern a difference from a Sony A7rII, D800, etc. to a MFD print. I was finding that these upgrade cycles were detrimental to the manufacture too. The Leica S2 series is a good example of depreciation. The Leica M seems the best at holding their value, most likely a result of longer cycles of new products and unique offerings. Sony will announce a 70MP or higher FF sensor very soon and that will change the market segment no doubt. The Fuji GFX should do nicely, although not cheap, the initial investment depreciation won't bite as much. Have you seen their lens pricing? Way to go FUJI! If you want a camera to last, shoot film!

 

[beano_z]

For midlife crisis I strongly suggest a technical camera with the IQ260 :grin: .....yes, the XF is nice and the new Phase One lenses are nice too, but nothing has changed the way I shoot more (for the better) than the tech cam (applicable if you intend on shooting any architecture or landscape).

A tech cam combined with those Rodenstock lenses just give the images that wow-factor which surprisingly can even be recognized by people completely oblivious to photography.

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

For midlife crisis I strongly suggest a technical camera with the IQ260 :grin: .....yes, the XF is nice and the new Phase One lenses are nice too, but nothing has changed the way I shoot more (for the better) than the tech cam (applicable if you intend on shooting any architecture or landscape).

A tech cam combined with those Rodenstock lenses just give the images that wow-factor which surprisingly can even be recognized by people completely oblivious to photography.

That would be the next step maybe, but I would start with the XF body as using a tech cam for portraits seems like a hassle.

 

[algrove]

Erik
Just realized you are into XT2/Pro as I am too. Seems a good change up might be to start thinking about the GFX. Currently, they project an 18mm equivalent will be available and the 120 macro seems for now the best choice for hand held portraiture as it offers OIS. Of course the 110/2.0 could be a stellar lens as f2.0 in MF terms is rare.

Sorry to change any dialogue.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Ultimately, if it's for business then you need to understand what will make you money and what will do the jobs that you get and build a kit around those requirements, if it's just for personal use then get what you like!

Good luck

Life is not a rehearsal. If it's for personal use, go with your gut and if you can afford it I'd go with an IQ260 over any current DSLR again today. I upgraded my IQ160 to IQ260 for the long exposure support - not good > 30 minutes but more than adequate at 4 minutes+, especially if you revisit those images with current versions of C1 (which breathes new life into old images IMHO with each new release).

The IQ260 produces wonderful colour when shot at base ISO and when not under exposed. The ephemeral CCD 'look' comes to mind. Only the 80mp CCD or IQ3100 beats it in my experience.

Wifi on the IQ260 sucked though ...

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

Erik
Just realized you are into XT2/Pro as I am too. Seems a good change up might be to start thinking about the GFX. Currently, they project an 18mm equivalent will be available and the 120 macro seems for now the best choice for hand held portraiture as it offers OIS. Of course the 110/2.0 could be a stellar lens as f2.0 in MF terms is rare.

Sorry to change any dialogue.

The GFX is the most likely option at the moment. Just looking at all other options first.

Just had a hands on experience with a XF+IQ250 and it was HEAVY, but I liked it.

 

[vjbelle]

The GFX is the most likely option at the moment. Just looking at all other options first.

Just had a hands on experience with a XF+IQ250 and it was HEAVY, but I liked it.

I think this ends the conversation..... I'm sure you will be very happy with your new GFX.

Victor

 

[aztwang]

Matt, you need to understand that I know Erik. We have spent two good evenings drinking together and I am quite well informed about a number of factors that helped shape my jokey response. I won't share them here because they are Erik's private business but I concur with whoever it was above who suggested that for his needs a D810 would be very much more useful. He and I also communicate extensively via text message and I will have this conversation with him offline.

Gentlemen, Your advice and opinions are highly appreciated by most here. Concerning the D810 comment. I own a D810 with all the cool glass. I also own P1 XF w/ IQ250. I have been lucky enough to have done a hand full (6+) of shoots, not testing but actual real life client stuff where I have shot the P1 then the D810 then the P1 then the........etc. Lens's were comparable in focal length as were settings and every time, not just once or twice but every time in a blind taste test a fellow pro, my assistant and myself have inspected both groups of files and the P1 wins..Every time! Top 3 winning criteria, detail, skin tone and detail. Yes there is noticeable difference. Do I pick up the D810 at times over the Phase...you betcha....but 90% of the time the Phase1 is my workhorse. I love the detail, love the ability to modify the ambient light with leaf shutters as most of my work is lit with Broncolor strobes I live in high speed sync land quite often.

OP, good luck sir!

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

Looks like the the IQ2 60mp won't have a live view on the XF, which I thought was a shame. Funny how such a massive camera can still feel so good in the hand.

People who do portraits in the studio how long can you work with it before you have to put it down for a break?

 

[tashley]

Looks like the the IQ2 60mp won't have a live view on the XF, which I thought was a shame. Funny how such a massive camera can still feel so good in the hand.

People who do portraits in the studio how long can you work with it before you have to put it down for a break?

Also worth being aware that not all P1 live view is created equal. The CCD sensors' LV is like really bad slow frame rate night vision goggles and is largely useless for focus and composition. The CMOS versions are much better.

 

[mjr]

I have live view on all my cameras and have never used it, if the back is on the XF and you're using it for portraits, I can't see the need for it either, viewfinder is superb and I always shoot tethered anyway, on a tech cam I can see a use but with practice it's not like you can't shoot without LV.

As for holding it, depends what you're used to, there are people who do far more physical work every day without worrying about it, my sister carries 2 young kids around, I'd bet she'd swap for an XF in a heartbeat! Seriously though, I worked full days on corporate portrait shoots with zero issues, I always had a tripod near by to set it on top of whilst I sorted things out/spoke to the clients, it's really not an issue if you're even reasonably fit and healthy. I carried the XF and a Cambo setup for full days on Lofoten and despite it being heavy, results were more than worth the pain, I have never really understood smaller systems for travelling either, if I'm going to see something once or very rarely then I want the absolute best quality I can muster, why leave the best kit for stuff you see every day?!

Anyway, I'd rent a kit for a couple of days, only you can really answer these questions, the biggest motivation for owning equipment for me, assuming I can earn money with it, is that I want it, who cares if it's heavy, impractical or a bit of a pain to use, if you want something and you're not taking food off the table then why the hell not??

Mat

 

[MGrayson]

Mat,

Did you find no practical difference between using the XF and the Leica S? I carry an S with 2 lenses everywhere I go, but I'm not sure I would do the same with the XF and a DB. But if it's just a matter of getting used to a few extra pounds?

Not trying to go :OT:,

Matt

 

[mjr]

I'll add another point, purely from a personal point of view because I have been questioning a lot recently, image quality is not directly related to quality of image, if you know what I mean! Clean shadows, long exposures, massive dynamic range etc. obviously all have a place but they have to fit with how you want to work and the images you want to produce. I am far more in love with my images produced on the 260 and the Leica S ccd sensors than with my Nikons for example, either because I was more inspired to use the kit, took it to better places, knew it inside and out, not sure but I have been back to places I photograph locally and just can't get the same feel to the images, familiarity may be the key, don't know. Maybe it's just because i like shadows, my own personal opinion on modern cmos sensors is people get carried away with all that shadow stuff and the images just lack tone and depth when everything is lifted, I don't know. Luckily there are loads of options and you only have to please yourself.

I recently saw some absolutely beautiful black and white prints from many years ago, sure you can pick up negatives when you look for them but standing back and looking at the actual image and there is no way I can get that feel, not saying film is the solution, just saying if you want emotional connection with the viewer, it needs far more than an extra stop of DR or live view.

Mat

 

[mjr]

Matt

I carried 2 S bodies and 5 lenses everywhere, every day, there is little difference really between that and the XF kit with 6 lenses, all comes under the general heading of f*cking heavy! To be honest carrying 2 Nikon bodies and 5 lenses now feels just as much of a pain. In the hand though, the S is a far far far better camera to hold and use, not even close! I will have another S one day, guaranteed. I bought the 260 for a tech cam and ended up using the XF because I loved the files, for general shooting handheld though, the S is just feels lovely.

Mat

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

I have live view on all my cameras and have never used it, if the back is on the XF and you're using it for portraits, I can't see the need for it either, viewfinder is superb and I always shoot tethered anyway, on a tech cam I can see a use but with practice it's not like you can't shoot without LV.

I only use Live View when my camera is on a tripod. For portraits it is (Electronic) View Finder all the way.

Thanks btw. Your answers have been very helpful.

 

[MGrayson]

Mat,

I certainly understand the appeal of the IQ260. I used a 160 for a week and those are the only files I like better than the S's. (I'm staying away from the IQ3100!). But since I do this mostly for fun, the actual camera handling is a large part of the experience. It's true, the image is getting more important to me as I improve, but I've a ways to go before the S feels limiting.

Best,

Matt

 

[jdphoto]

I'll add another point, purely from a personal point of view because I have been questioning a lot recently, image quality is not directly related to quality of image, if you know what I mean! Clean shadows, long exposures, massive dynamic range etc. obviously all have a place but they have to fit with how you want to work and the images you want to produce. I am far more in love with my images produced on the 260 and the Leica S ccd sensors than with my Nikons for example, either because I was more inspired to use the kit, took it to better places, knew it inside and out, not sure but I have been back to places I photograph locally and just can't get the same feel to the images, familiarity may be the key, don't know. Maybe it's just because i like shadows, my own personal opinion on modern cmos sensors is people get carried away with all that shadow stuff and the images just lack tone and depth when everything is lifted, I don't know. Luckily there are loads of options and you only have to please yourself.

I recently saw some absolutely beautiful black and white prints from many years ago, sure you can pick up negatives when you look for them but standing back and looking at the actual image and there is no way I can get that feel, not saying film is the solution, just saying if you want emotional connection with the viewer, it needs far more than an extra stop of DR or live view.

Mat

I agree with your last paragraph. I have returned to shooting film for certain projects. Everything from 6x7 to a Leica MP is on my radar now. Clients do notice the difference with film, it has a character that no app can replicate. Some wedding photographers are now shooting film because of the demand from discerning clients. The debate over film vs digital is subjective, but imo, film is vastly more satisfying.

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

I ended up buying the GFX and it arrived today. Hours after my dealer calls me saying there is a refurbished IQ2 60mp + FX + 80mm lens with 1 year warranty for £11,000 + VAT.

 

[aztwang]

The GFX is the most likely option at the moment. Just looking at all other options first.

Just had a hands on experience with a XF+IQ250 and it was HEAVY, but I liked it.

Thats my set up with Schneider 35 Blue ring, 55,80,110LS lens's and the new 120 macro Blue ring (my new favorite portrait lens!) I recently had to replace my IQ250, thats another story and it was all my fault! I could have upgraded but stayed with the IQ250 as it's served my purpose perfectly. I shoot 95% of my jobs are portraiture & outdoors and love the ability to kill ambient with leaf shutters. As far as weight goes I shoot 2-300 frames per session handheld and it's no big deal, but I would rather shoot with a rig that has substance than one that is super light...that's just me.

Good luck with your hunt!


Ooops sorry. Not sure how I ended up posting on this older thread...

 

[DougDolde]

This is no joke

"Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante)