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CFV50C and 903 SWC?

Jan

Member
SWC/M with P21.






As I mentioned below, new lenses designed for digital produce (obvious) better results, but deeper pockets are required. When Hasselblad mentioned 'not suitable for critical work' it is not defined what is meant 'critical'.​
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
SWC/M with P21.
...
As I mentioned below, new lenses designed for digital produce (obvious) better results, but deeper pockets are required. When Hasselblad mentioned 'not suitable for critical work' it is not defined what is meant 'critical'.
Those do look pretty good, at this size anyway.

It's an ongoing debate for me. I have a pretty complete Hasselblad V system (500CM, 50, 80, 120 Macro, 150, and SWC) but don't use it much anymore because I'm using digital capture most of the time and getting what I want with the Leica SL and M. Out of the H system, it's the SWC that I truly love because its images are unique. This is partly due to the large, square format and that wonderful lens. The cost of a CFV-50c is pretty close to that of an X1D + 1 lens, plus or minus depending on what I can find. Getting the CFV would let me use the whole Hassy kit for digital capture, but with a reduced format. Getting the X1D and the recently 'announced' 22mm lens would give me the "digital SWC" I want directly. So I keep debating about it.

No rush. :D

G
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
Like the photos Jan!

So:
By pure chance, I happened to buy a SWC 903 now. There is of course no connection between this thread and the purchase..
(And 2 weeks return policy)

Now I have the 500 CM, the Flexbody and now the SWC 903.
So all bases are covered!

I am really not interested in the X1D.
For the price of the that camera I now have the CFV50C, tree bodies mentioned above and the 50, 80, 120, and 150 lenses.

And the Flexbody gives me tilt. I am a sucker for tilt.
I "rented" the Hartblei 45mm tilt/shift lens from Graham W for a couple of years to use together with my Mamiya AFD 645 and P1 back.
And it was the best solution for tilt/shift I ever used. It become quickly an inutativ process to use this lens.
Just looking and placing the plane of focus where you wanted it with a few twists on the lens.
With the Flexbody I am only hoping for tilt. It will be a slower process compared to the Hartblei. But I am in no hurry!

If I feel I am in an hurry I use my X-Pro2 kit. I will not hesitate to print 1 meter on the short side with this camera.

So the Hasselblad system system is very much about the process.
And that is really why I do this!

So the SWC 903 is for pure fun!
But of course based on healthy economical analysis...

Ray
 

Jan

Member
Which makes me think you already have the CFV-50c? I thought you had the 903 and considered the digital back :eek:
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
Nope, I was looking for a 903 to complete my wee Hasselblad collection.
The CFV50C was already in my hands.
So the 903 was thought as a easy portable film camera, with the nice option to also use my digi back on.

It is a highly developed skill, to be slightly unclear when communicating.
I have trained on this skill for many years, and now I begin to really master it :grin:

Ray
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
...
By pure chance, I happened to buy a SWC 903 now. There is of course no connection between this thread and the purchase..
(And 2 weeks return policy)

Now I have the 500 CM, the Flexbody and now the SWC 903.
So all bases are covered!

I am really not interested in the X1D.
For the price of the that camera I now have the CFV50C, tree bodies mentioned above and the 50, 80, 120, and 150 lenses.

And the Flexbody gives me tilt. I am a sucker for tilt.
...
So the SWC 903 is for pure fun!
But of course based on healthy economical analysis...
It is a highly developed skill, to be slightly unclear when communicating.
I have trained on this skill for many years, and now I begin to really master it
You're in deep, Ray. :ROTFL:

Enjoy the 903SWC! It's a wonderful camera. I should never have sold mine.

G
 

PSon

Active member
Why do Hasselblad users want to try the Hasselblad 903SWC on digital back? First, the looks of this lens is special and gravitating to those who appreciate its rendering especially on full square format film. Second, it is the most beautiful and compact medium camera with a legendary optics from its time. Thus it is naturally fitting to see people like Ray to want to try this combination on a digital back of choice.

Current Data:
Hasselblad 903SWC + CFV-50c = unknown

Reason for the unknown data: The older battery L bracket for the CFV-16, 16 II, 39 and 50 digital backs cannot be used on the latest CFV-50c. You must get a new battery L-bracket from Hasselblad or modify your 903SWC. I had a hard time to modify such a beautiful camera. The Phase One digital back is the best digital back to use on the 903SWC due to the battery is internal and has no interference with the tripod plate of the 903SWC. I wish Hasselblad would redesign the CFV digital back to have internal battery insert similar to the Phase One digital back.
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
Well, this cat has so far not been killed by it´s curiosity, it just become more and more curious :cool:

The new batteri 90 degree adapter is already ordered at Hasselblad!
I also have in the mail a "foot" for the camera that has an Arca compatibility.
So I also have the possibility to carefully remove the original and modify the new foot to my hearts desire, to work with the battery.

First I was also complaining about the battery, but I have no problem with this solution today.
I have had a number of P45 and + backs...
It is a special feeling when you stand in a stream and fiddling with your camera with the eye in the viewfinder, pressing the wrong spot on the back.
And the sound of your batteri dropping down in to the water and carried away by the stream. Combined withe the knowledge that it was the last battery with any remaining charge :cry:
Then it is time to go home!

So next week, I will know how it will work with the 903!

Ray
 

PSon

Active member
Well, this cat has so far not been killed by it´s curiosity, it just become more and more curious :cool:

The new batteri 90 degree adapter is already ordered at Hasselblad!
I also have in the mail a "foot" for the camera that has an Arca compatibility.
So I also have the possibility to carefully remove the original and modify the new foot to my hearts desire, to work with the battery.

First I was also complaining about the battery, but I have no problem with this solution today.
I have had a number of P45 and + backs...
It is a special feeling when you stand in a stream and fiddling with your camera with the eye in the viewfinder, pressing the wrong spot on the back.
And the sound of your batteri dropping down in to the water and carried away by the stream. Combined withe the knowledge that it was the last battery with any remaining charge :cry:
Then it is time to go home!

So next week, I will know how it will work with the 903!

Ray
I cannot wait to see Ray!
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Cover glass induced astigmatism...

Hi,

Digital backs have a cover glass that is about two mm thick. Biogon type designs have very large beam angles and that induces astigmatism in the image. So the lens would be very sharp in the center but loose a lot of sharpness towrads the corners.

Wide angles designed for SLRs are always Distagon types, a design that moves the outlet pupil long from the sensor. So Distagons have no problems with digital sensors.

To some extent it is possible to correct for the cover glass in the optical design, but the SWC was calculated for film.

The best 40 mm for Hasselblad is the Distagon 40/4 IF, but it is rar and expensive.

Best regards
Erik


So, any experience?

The 38 lens to wide for the back?
Any color shift or other problem?

:talk028: No, of course I don't NEED it

But what has "need" to do with anything here at GetDPI?

Ray
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Cover glass induced astigmatism...

Hi,

Digital backs have a cover glass that is about two mm thick. Biogon type designs have very large beam angles and that induces astigmatism in the image. So the lens would be very sharp in the center but loose a lot of sharpness towrads the corners.

Wide angles designed for SLRs are always Distagon types, a design that moves the outlet pupil long from the sensor. So Distagons have no problems with digital sensors.

To some extent it is possible to correct for the cover glass in the optical design, but the SWC was calculated for film.

There are some other issues with large beam angle designs, vignetting and cross talk. Some sensors are better in this respects and some less good. Larger pixel sizes are generally less sensitive.

The best 40 mm for Hasselblad is the Distagon 40/4 IF, but it is rar and expensive.

Best regards
Erik


So, any experience?

The 38 lens to wide for the back?
Any color shift or other problem?

:talk028: No, of course I don't NEED it

But what has "need" to do with anything here at GetDPI?

Ray
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
[RANT]
For me, this is all about the process, as I have written before.
That means that I am to a degree "vision driven" in my photographic activity.

I have speent a pathological amount of time and money to strive for some kind of technological perfection.
The irritating result of this quest has for me been that it all has been (almost) for nothing.

What I really strive for is things like this:



This was taken with my old RZ Proll, P45+ and a lens that I do not remember now.

Those component was a part of my process in constructing this image.
The "Look" of the CCD P45 back, the rendering of the lens, and the way the RZ forced me to work.

I care very little for the technical specifications of my equipment, it is all about what they deliver

One of my all time favourite lenses was the old Mamiya Z250 lens for the RZ system.
Sublim rendering, especially for portraits.
Then the shutter broke down and I bought the newer APO 250. What a disappointment.
That lens had the personality of a brick wall..

So after seeing the photos earlier in this tread I am not worried about the combination of the 903 and my CFV50C.
I am rather confident that for MY work, it will work really good.
It seams that all reviewers agree that the 903 is one of the best MF wide angle cameras for analog film.
That is not a bad verdict to me. As I also plan to use the 903 as an film camera to.

And in the end, the best tool is the one you you forget that you are using, and only being concentrated on the process.
So far has my 500 CM + lenses combined with the CFV50C been surprisingly transparent to use.
I just point the camera and suddenly there is a photo available.
And any deficiencies in the photo is because of me, and not my equipment.
That is very liberating because I can the fully concentrate on the main obstacle: My self!

So I am rather confident that I will put the 903 to good use.
[/RANT]

Ray
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
You're singing my song, Ray. :cool:

What I'd seen of the SWC output with digital backs was not quite up to what I wanted, but my needs/desires and yours probably differ to some degree ... I hope it works beautifully for your vision.

On 6x6 film, that Biogon 38mm T* is magic; its imaging qualities just thrill the heck out of me. So the SWC stays regardless of what else I do with the rest of my Hasselblad kit...

G
 

richardman

Well-known member
I am telling myself that I will wait for the 1x full frame (even at 645) digital back.

Of course the truth is that I do not have enough kidneys.
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
So, the SWC has finally arrived!

First impression:

"It is just a scale model of a SWC 903 they sent me?"

That how small I felt it was in my hand :shocked:
Here you can see a quick and dirty snapshot of the three cameras from Hasselblad that I now have:
SWC 903, Flexbody, 500 C/M



So I now begin to understand more from a practical point of view other peoples praise of this as a camera for hand holding and "walk about" film camera.
I think I will not replace my stolen Mamiya 6 cameras now in any near future.
This beauty is small and sexy, ehhh I mean 6X6!

And I had of course to test it with my CFV50C!!!

The 90 degree battery adapter has not yet arrived, so I removed the tripod foot from the camera.
Then I visited my brick wall on my house and made some pictures.
Everything worked flawless with the digiback on the camera.
At least after I switched the camera model in the settings in the back...

And I was once again impressed, better than I expected even if it was a quick and dirty test.
I hand held the camera against my tripod.
About 1.3 meters distans, ISO1600, F11, 1/60 of a second.
The photo was under exposed about half a stop or so.

And I will not put any photos here of my brick wall, it is just meaningless for any real analyse of sharpness and such parameters!
So you have to drag down the file your self if you want to see the result!

http://www.ecognia.com/resources/SWC-903_0003.fff

Fileformat is .fff and size about 100 MB, just so you are warned!

The wall was unevenly lit, the left lower corner is darkest in the image.

So far so good!!!

More will come when I have more time to spend with this equipment. My customers are screaming for my attention now so no more test for a week or so.
But if the positive result continues I might have to ask the mods here to change the question mark in the title of this tread to an exclamation pointl

Ray
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
Will, so you think there is a gap in my collection? ;)

But not really interested now.
And that is because I want to use the CFV with my cameras.
If I get an Arc body, then I will, like the other owners of technical cameras, complain all the time about my problems with wide angel lenses and my digital back..
Just for shooting film it might be fun but not for digital I think

For digital I will use my Flex body.

Hmm, don´t give me ideas, I have enough of those all ready :chug:

Ray
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
I have had some question about how I mount the CFV50C on the 903SWC without any battery adapter.

Because I have still not recieved the 90 degree adapter I ordered close to two months ago now. And when the back is discontinued, who knows?
I get no information from HB, my dealer knows as much as I do..

So I decided to take my destiny in my own hands..

First I did remove the original foot and saved all components.
You need good tools for this!
Make sure that that your screw drivers has a perfect fit.
It is to easy to destroy the head of the screws!!!

Then I made a plate in stainless steel.
I was planing to drill a center hole and tread it so I could mount any foot I wanted.
But the I thought: Why?

I only need one Arca-Swizz compatible fot permanently fixed!
So did some digging in my heaps of stuff and found one that was almost perfect.
Not sure about the strength of is, so I did use the stainless steel plate I made to reinforce the constructions. drilled 3 holes and mounted it with 3 standard 2.5 M-tread screws.
I was also concerned about the mounting of the camera, if there was enough free space for the foot to easily be mounted on the head on the tripod.
But it was ample space!

This solution gives me about 0.5 mm free space between the battery and the foot.
Works like a dream!





But I think the stainless steel plate is just overkill!
The foot should be strong enough on its own.
I left the rubber on the foot, it gave a bit of soft mounting to protect the treads in the camera.
You do not want to destroy those!!!

When next I have some spare time I will try without the steel plate.
I just have to fix a little shorter screws first so I dont destroy stuf inside the camera..

So the total cost for this was like two beers.
HB wants about 300 USD for the adapter, that is if they ever will ship it..

Ray
 
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Thorkil

Well-known member
:thumbs: Ray!
I remember the original compared at around a 21mm on the 24x36mm format, horisontalwise, but actually perhaps more like a 24-25mm, as it is 72 degree horisontal.
As the cropfactor is 1,45, where do you then end?, like a 28mm or more in the horisontalview in 35 format?
thorkil
 
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