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New Cambo Actus dedicated for the Fuji GFX.

Tmuussoni

New member
The Hasselblad 24mm f4.8 and the Pentax 25mm f4 (perhaps to a lesser extend) should provide quality that would compete with the best of UWA lenses from Rodenstock or Schneider and then there are lenses like the Nikkor 19mm. All these and more from the same or other makers are "strong" retrofocus designs that should require no LCC corrections.

Lens choices then multiply with the focal length increase.

I believe that we are in the cross-roads where the "traditional" lens choice for use with technical cameras will change significantly from the past towards sharing common lenses with the platform one uses and then, the technical camera market (for modern designs) will expand significantly following a parallel path to the MF market expansion.
Forgive me, a silly question but you will be able to change aperture electronically with GFX + Cambo Actus combo? And How would Hassy HCD 4/28mm compare to 24/4.8?
 

CAMBOUSA

Member
Forgive me, a silly question but you will be able to change aperture electronically with GFX + Cambo Actus combo?
The Actus-GFX has no electronic controls, so at this current moment only manually controlled aperture lenses are supported fully.
 

Iktinos

Not Available
Forgive me, a silly question but you will be able to change aperture electronically with GFX + Cambo Actus combo? And How would Hassy HCD 4/28mm compare to 24/4.8?
Actually, its quite easy to Control aperture and shutter with the GFX and a Hasselblad H lens. You only need to purchase the GFX to H lens adapter with the camera and then use extension chords (with the adapter in between) for connecting the lens mount to camera mount!

One can even do the same with the Hasselblad X1D used for image area and the Hasselblad H lenses... You can even then use the Hasselblad H to V adapter on the lens board and have the leaf shutter of the V lenses operative!

To the other part of your question, I don't think that there is any MF lens that is of questionable quality if closed down to f8 and further (which is what people are using their lenses from Rodenstock or Schneider on a tech camera anyway).
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Most people seem really excited about the new Cambo Actus for the GFX, but I have seen a few people saying there won't be a lot of lenses to cover the sensor nor software to correct the various colour casts which happens when you tilt/shift etc.

Someone who knows their stuff care to help me out here or should I call my Cambo dealer to order one straight away? :)
Hi Erik

I would assume that the 50MP Sony sensor in the GFX will act very similar to the current 50MP versions in both Hasselblad and P1. I have personally used the 50MP in both the IQ250 and IQ150 with a tech camera. As long as the sensor is centered the image quality is excellent, however as the image is shifted past 5mm, the shifted part of the image will take on a very harsh red cast, and as you approach 10mm or more you will start to see considerable saturation fall off. This problem was carried on to the larger 100MP chip, however it manifests it a bit differently. There also is some crosstalk going on, but it take quite a bit of study to see it most of the time.

Wide lenses, I have used were the 28mm, 32mm, and 40mm Rodie and the 35 and 60mm Schneiders. The wider the glass, the closer the rear element of the of lens comes to the sensor, thus the issue is made worse. With the 50MP Chip, with a shift of 12mm or 15mm, the left 1/4 of the image is basically red. You can also see the exact same effect with the 36mm and 42mm Sony's in the 35mm size. Modification of 35mm lenses designed around a mirror box, should work better in regards to color cast, but it's possible some might still be there.

There is talk that since Fuji has had Sony create a special non x-trans filter array, with special micro lenses, that this issue may not be as bad. Personally I have not had the camera in hand, but I don't believe that a filter array can totally remove it. And the red cast is considerable worse than what is seen with the older CCD chips.

The 50MP also exhibits a wavy irregular banding problem that I noticed 2 years ago when testing a IQ150. P1 agreed it was there, but did not make a correction in C1. They did make a correction for the same effect on the 100MP chip with C1 ver 10. This issue is like micro lens ripple, but not as strong or regular and thus harder to correct so I complement P1 for working on a fix for the 100MP.

To fix the color cast and saturation fall off, you need a good LCC process. C1 by later versions of 9.x had a very good correction for the 50MP P1 backs. Phase gives back almost 100% of the loss in saturation and removes all the red cast. As we all know now, C1 will not support the Fuji GFX, so that leaves LR/ACR. Adobe spent a bit of time working on a similar solution to the Phase One LCC, however it's nowhere as solid a solution (at least 1 year ago and Adobe tends to never re-visit a tool in my experience). So without C1, movements with this chip on with a tech wide lenses, I feel will be very limited and really defeats the whole point of having the Cambo setup.

Paul Caldwell
 

Iktinos

Not Available
Actually, its quite easy to Control aperture and shutter with the GFX and a Hasselblad H lens. You only need to purchase the GFX to H lens adapter with the camera and then use extension chords (with the adapter in between) for connecting the lens mount to camera mount!

One can even do the same with the Hasselblad X1D used for image area and the Hasselblad H lenses... You can even then use the Hasselblad H to V adapter on the lens board and have the leaf shutter of the V lenses operative!

To the other part of your question, I don't think that there is any MF lens that is of questionable quality if closed down to f8 and further (which is what people are using their lenses from Rodenstock or Schneider on a tech camera anyway).
After Fringer's announcement for a Contax 645 lens to Fuji GFX adapter coming, one may now add the C645 line of lenses used with above described method on a view camera with the GFX used for image area. Certainly no LCC correction will be required with either the Hasselblad H, or the Contax 645 lenses.

I guess we next have to wait for more adapters that will enable lenses for Rollei 6008/HY-6 and even Bronica ETRSi & SQAi (many of them out of the PE & PS series are superb) to come out for the GFX and then the range of lenses one can use on a view camera with the GFX, will be the wider ever. Great times!
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
It should be noted that LCC files are needed only for the wides. That means probably 50mm and wider. My 60mm may/could use one but it would depend on how much shift and the scene. Once beyond those focal lengths shifting should be without issues. Its rare for me to shift with anything wider than 60mm and 95% of the time I'm at 72mm and longer. So, the GFX and Cambo combination would make sense for me.

Victor
 

Iktinos

Not Available
It should be noted that LCC files are needed only for the wides. That means probably 50mm and wider. My 60mm may/could use one but it would depend on how much shift and the scene. Once beyond those focal lengths shifting should be without issues. Its rare for me to shift with anything wider than 60mm and 95% of the time I'm at 72mm and longer. So, the GFX and Cambo combination would make sense for me.

Victor
It should also be noted though, that the vast majority of (WA or not) lenses that need LCC corrections are NOT compatible (mechanically) as to work with the GFX on a tech camera, while the WA lenses that ARE compatible with the GFX on a tech camera DOT NOT need LCC at all.

It should also be noted that ANY software correction (not only LCC) applied, is NOT without some penalty that affects image quality (to whatever extend) and should be avoided if this is possible.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
It should also be noted though, that the vast majority of (WA or not) lenses that need LCC corrections are NOT compatible (mechanically) as to work with the GFX on a tech camera, while the WA lenses that ARE compatible with the GFX on a tech camera DOT NOT need LCC at all.

It should also be noted that ANY software correction (not only LCC) applied, is NOT without some penalty that affects image quality (to whatever extend) and should be avoided if this is possible.
Sorry, you totally lost me here?

What WA (I assume wide angle?) lenses ARE compatible on the GFX on a tech camera that you are referring to? Are these Tech lenses like Rodenstock and Schneider or Canon/Nikon lenses?

The Wide angle lenses I have used on the 50MP Sony are 28mm, Rod, 32mm Rod, 35mm Sch, 40mm Rod and 60mm Sch. IMO ALL of these require an LCC. Take any of these lenses past 5mm of shift on any tech camera or Aptus and the shifted part of the image is basically all red due to color cast. Not to mention 55 to 75% loss of saturation in greens and blues. I have thousands of files where I shifted the IQ150 and IQ250 on the tech lenses I have mentioned, and all reacted the same. The color cast is probably more extreme than on the 100MP Sony. There is no way you could correct this without a good LCC algorightim and only C1 has this.

The 35mm lenses adapted to the GFX should have better results I agree as they are all designed around a mirror box, thus will sit further away from the sensor.

The Sony 35mm chips in the AR7 and A7RII both have the exact same issues, as I have tested the same tech lenses on them via the Acra DSLR2. Color cast on extreme shifts (5mm and beyond is very harsh and will not be easy to correct without an LCC).

Don't get me wrong, not trying to rain on the parade. But all this talk on movements with the GFX, are not taking into account the massive amounts of color cast the 50MP Sony sensor has when shifted with a Wide. I feel that even the 60mm Schneider has too much to use without correction of an LCC (at least on the 50MP IQ150). Sure Fuji has made a marketing claim (just like they did about C1 support 2 weeks ago) that they have placed a Magic new array in front of the Sony 50MP with a different design for the micro lenses. I sure hope it takes all the color cast out, since Phase One has made it quite clear they are not willing to work on a partnership with Fuji.

Shift the 50MP past 5mm with 28mm, 32mm, 35mm, or 40mm and your image is basically red in the parts of the image shifted. Much more so than a CCD back shifted the same amount. This is fact, and it's been that way since the 50MP chip was first released. Which is more than likely why P1 never pushed this chip, 50MP Sony on tech cameras only on the XF.

Here is a simple screen grab from an IQ150 15mm of shift on 40mm Rodenstock. Without C1 or a similar program to fix this massive color cast, the shifted file is basically not useable. The LCC does not show the amount of loss in saturation on the same amount of shift with the Sony 50MP chip.



Paul CaldwellView attachment 125265View attachment 125265
 

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Iktinos

Not Available
Sorry, you totally lost me here?

What WA (I assume wide angle?) lenses ARE compatible on the GFX on a tech camera that you are referring to? Are these Tech lenses like Rodenstock and Schneider or Canon/Nikon lenses?

The Wide angle lenses I have used on the 50MP Sony are 28mm, Rod, 32mm Rod, 35mm Sch, 40mm Rod and 60mm Sch. IMO ALL of these require an LCC. Take any of these lenses past 5mm of shift on any tech camera or Aptus and the shifted part of the image is basically all red due to color cast. Not to mention 55 to 75% loss of saturation in greens and blues. I have thousands of files where I shifted the IQ150 and IQ250 on the tech lenses I have mentioned, and all reacted the same. The color cast is probably more extreme than on the 100MP Sony. There is no way you could correct this without a good LCC algorightim and only C1 has this.

The 35mm lenses adapted to the GFX should have better results I agree as they are all designed around a mirror box, thus will sit further away from the sensor.

The Sony 35mm chips in the AR7 and A7RII both have the exact same issues, as I have tested the same tech lenses on them via the Acra DSLR2. Color cast on extreme shifts (5mm and beyond is very harsh and will not be easy to correct without an LCC).

Don't get me wrong, not trying to rain on the parade. But all this talk on movements with the GFX, are not taking into account the massive amounts of color cast the 50MP Sony sensor has when shifted with a Wide. I feel that even the 60mm Schneider has too much to use without correction of an LCC (at least on the 50MP IQ150). Sure Fuji has made a marketing claim (just like they did about C1 support 2 weeks ago) that they have placed a Magic new array in front of the Sony 50MP with a different design for the micro lenses. I sure hope it takes all the color cast out, since Phase One has made it quite clear they are not willing to work on a partnership with Fuji.

Shift the 50MP past 5mm with 28mm, 32mm, 35mm, or 40mm and your image is basically red in the parts of the image shifted. Much more so than a CCD back shifted the same amount. This is fact, and it's been that way since the 50MP chip was first released. Which is more than likely why P1 never pushed this chip, 50MP Sony on tech cameras only on the XF.

Paul Caldwell
Hasselblad 24mm f4.8 (and all Hasselblad), Pentax 25/4 (and all Pentax), Contax Zeiss 35mm/3.5 (and all Contax Zeiss) need no LCC, Canon or Nikon too (or Zeiss/Schneider for Canon or Nikon). Nikkor 19mm/3.5 in particular, may prove to be a stand out lens out of its other FF DSLR rivals for use with MF sensors.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Hasselblad 24mm f4.8 (and all Hasselblad), Pentax 25/4 (and all Pentax), Contax Zeiss 35mm/3.5 (and all Contax Zeiss) need no LCC, Canon or Nikon too (or Zeiss/Schneider for Canon or Nikon). Nikkor 19mm/3.5 in particular, may prove to be a stand out lens out of its other FF DSLR rivals for use with MF sensors.

None of these are tech WA as far as I can tell. I have already stated, any lens built around a mirror box should be much better since the lens by design will be pushed further away from the sensor. Personally I don't see the TS-E or Nikon 19mm working until someone figured out a way like Arca and Cambo did to electronically control the aperture. Currently, you would need to have a Nikon body, set the aperture, then while holding the DOF preview button attempt to pull off the lens and fix the aperture. Personally I am not a big fan of this, period as you run the risk of damaging the lens.

Paul Caldwell
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
One last example. This is the corresponding real image to that LCC I previously posted.

The shift is 15mm right. You can clearly see the loss in color saturation towards the right edge. NOTE, the WB is typical capture WB from a P1 back, which tends to be a bit warm to my liking, and can also be seen in the LCC plate capture I provided.

Most of this can be removed in C1 with a LCC application.

Paul Caldwell

IQ150 raw  before correction 40mm Rod 15mm shift IQ150.jpg

And same file after a LCC has been applied. No other work done. Recovery of both light falloff, saturation loss and red cast is very good IMO. Good enough

IQ150 raw  after  correction 40mm Rod 15mm shift IQ150.jpg
 

marc aurel

Active member
None of these are tech WA as far as I can tell. I have already stated, any lens built around a mirror box should be much better since the lens by design will be pushed further away from the sensor. Personally I don't see the TS-E or Nikon 19mm working until someone figured out a way like Arca and Cambo did to electronically control the aperture. Currently, you would need to have a Nikon body, set the aperture, then while holding the DOF preview button attempt to pull off the lens and fix the aperture. Personally I am not a big fan of this, period as you run the risk of damaging the lens.
Paul Caldwell
I think both you and Iktinos are right. Basically you say the same in a different way. That is why I expect adapters or view cam solutions with electronic aperture control to appear soon. There is just so much potential in this. Alpa recognized that and made shift adapters for Contax 645, Hasselblad H and Rollei lenses. But they only work with their Alpa FPS and a digital back. Now with the Fuji all these possibilities are so much more in reach (financially, for a fraction of the price of the Alpa solution). Personally I would prefer a Canon EF fixed adapter first (my 24mm would be a 20mm on the Fuji, the 17mm would be a 14mm), followed by the Contax 645. I tried the Contax 645 35mm f3.5 on the Alpa FPS with the IQ 250 once. With extremly good results (until an image circle of 70mm it's very good, until 75mm it is very usable). I also have a Contax-Zeiss PC-Distagon 35mm that has an excellent image circle of 63mm, usable until 67mm. That is a good start to use with fixed adapters (does not even need aperture control because aperture is completely manual on that lens). But the 645 version with its larger image circle would be a killer.
 

Iktinos

Not Available
None of these are tech WA as far as I can tell. I have already stated, any lens built around a mirror box should be much better since the lens by design will be pushed further away from the sensor. Personally I don't see the TS-E or Nikon 19mm working until someone figured out a way like Arca and Cambo did to electronically control the aperture. Currently, you would need to have a Nikon body, set the aperture, then while holding the DOF preview button attempt to pull off the lens and fix the aperture. Personally I am not a big fan of this, period as you run the risk of damaging the lens.

Paul Caldwell
I don't believe on the term "tech lenses" Paul... These MF lenses have proved to be superb on ALPA tests and be sure that their performance is beyond critism if closed down to f8-f11 as they should on a view camera.

There is no risk to damage a lens if it is removed with camera's power turned off... The process should be: Turn camera on> set aperture value> press stop down button> turn power off> then remove the lens.

I have not tried the Nikkor 19mm either (yet), but the reports are too enthusiastic to ignore and agree between them (which is a very good sign), they claim extremely wide image circle (full shifts without significant vignetting presence), sharpness across the frame (beyond what DSLR lenses are known for) after full shifts are applied and low distortion (less than 1,5%). If true, it will prove a life savior for tech camera solutions.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
It should also be noted though, that the vast majority of (WA or not) lenses that need LCC corrections are NOT compatible (mechanically) as to work with the GFX on a tech camera, while the WA lenses that ARE compatible with the GFX on a tech camera DOT NOT need LCC at all.

It should also be noted that ANY software correction (not only LCC) applied, is NOT without some penalty that affects image quality (to whatever extend) and should be avoided if this is possible.
I have no intentions of bantering with you, Theo. I can't, for the life of me, fathom what the hell you are saying in your first paragraph. Your second paragraph is without merit.

Victor
 
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marc aurel

Active member
The GFX mount has a flange distance of 26,7mm. If I checked the numbers correctly that means that the rear elements of all rodenstocks between 23 and 40mm would be inside the GFX mount. They have a diameter that is not much smaller than the inside of the GFX mount. So close to zero movements would be possible. When I look at the product photo of the actus (attached) I see that the rear standard mount is not thin. Difficult to estimate, but around 15mm I guess? So the rear elements of even some of the longer tech camera lenses would be inside the Actus rear standard mount with practically no movements. So no tech camera wides with shift are compatible with the Actus GFX (I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like that to me)

Best regards -
Marc
 

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Iktinos

Not Available
The GFX mount has a flange distance of 26,7mm. If I checked the numbers correctly that means that the rear elements of all rodenstocks between 23 and 40mm would be inside the GFX mount. They have a diameter that is not much smaller than the inside of the GFX mount. So close to zero movements would be possible. When I look at the product photo of the actus (attached) I see that the rear standard mount is not thin. Difficult to estimate, but around 15mm I guess? So the rear elements of even some of the longer tech camera lenses would be inside the Actus rear standard mount with practically no movements. So no tech camera wides with shift are compatible with the Actus GFX (I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like that to me)

Best regards -
Marc
Exactly right! However one must note that the thickness of the rear mount can (to much extend) be eliminated if the camera mount of the technical camera, is designed in a way that the GFX mount protrudes into it... The GFX camera body design allows for this to happen. It would save valuable space for 35mm lenses to be usable with the camera.

The consequence would then be that the grip of the GFX would then be "by the side" of the lens mount, which would then limit side shifts to the left (in other than macro), but there is a way around this if the view camera has shifts on both standards.
 

CAMBOUSA

Member
The GFX mount has a flange distance of 26,7mm. If I checked the numbers correctly that means that the rear elements of all rodenstocks between 23 and 40mm would be inside the GFX mount. They have a diameter that is not much smaller than the inside of the GFX mount[...]So no tech camera wides with shift are compatible with the Actus GFX.
From the Cambo NL facebook page:

The shortest useable Schneider or Rodenstock large format lens is 60mm. With retrofocus designs a lot shorter focal lengths become available. Like the Actar-24, Pentax-645 25 and 35mm lenses, Hasselblad-V 40mm and the like
So yes, the wide large format lenses aren't the best of options unfortunately.
 

craigosh

Member
I understand the Canon EF mount won't give infinity on this version!?

I'm wondering what this might be like with the Pentax 645 28-45mm, will there be any movement available ?? I'm hoping that I'll be able to look at a setup like this at The Photography Show in a few weeks.
 
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