Phase IQ 160-260 or Fuji GFX for portraits

[BTT]

Hey guys, I have enjoyed reading your posts for some time but this is my first post. Been wanting to get into medium format for some time. I miss the look I would get from my Pentax 67 back in the film days but love digital for all the conveniences it offers. I have been looking at some of the older full frame Phase backs for some time but know the limitations with the single point autofocus and iso. I like to shoot mostly with natural light and use strobes occasionally. The reason for wanting medium format is not as much about resolution but more about the look, color, and tonality from medium format. For the price I am very excited about the fuji as well as some of the more dslr like qualities compared to older ccd systems. My concern is if I will see much of a difference from full frame (Nikon d810) to the cropped medium format of the Fuji. I have tested the Phase IQ160 before and can see the difference. I have not tested a cropped medium format so I am wanting opinions on those that have used them for portraits. The Fuji really is exciting as well as the X1d but want to know if the smaller sensor will give me much of a different look vs. my current setup (d810) or do I really need to go with one of the older full frame sensors. The 100 mp CMOS would be amazing but definitely not in my budget.
Thanks!
Brad

 

[voidshatter]

I like to shoot mostly with natural light and use strobes occasionally.

If you shoot with strobes, then you can enjoy the sync speed advantage by the leaf shutters from Hasselblad and Phase One's DSLRs, and in that case the 60MP CCDs can be useful for the resolution.

If you shoot in low light (hand held) without strobes, then forget about medium format but instead get yourself a Sony A7R-II (with f/1.4 lenses and IBIS). Not even the IQ3 100MP can get you better results than this.

Do you shoot against the sun (backlight) at all? If yes, then get yourself a Sony CMOS (100MP, 50MP, D810, A7R-II etc) for the dynamic range. This is regardless of whether using strobes or not, because it would be extremely difficult to illuminate the far background with strobes.

For what you can do with the dynamic range of the 50MP 44x33 sensor see the review by @Chris Giles: Pentax 645z review Pt2 – Image quality. I'm sure you have already enjoyed this with your D810. It would be a significant downgrade of dynamic range if you switch to a CCD digital back (e.g. IQ160). This will downgrade the dynamic range to old Canon level.



As for difference between the D810 and the 50MP 44x33 sensor, my personal opinion is that the difference would be marginal and does not justify the cost. See my comparison between IQ250+40HR vs D800E+S35Art. Given that the 50MP 44x33 sensor is already 3 years old, I would wait for a refresh of D810 or A7R-II.

 

[BTT]

If you shoot with strobes, then you can enjoy the sync speed advantage by the leaf shutters from Hasselblad and Phase One's DSLRs, and in that case the 60MP CCDs can be useful for the resolution.

If you shoot in low light (hand held) without strobes, then forget about medium format but instead get yourself a Sony A7R-II (with f/1.4 lenses and IBIS). Not even the IQ3 100MP can get you better results than this.

Do you shoot against the sun (backlight) at all? If yes, then get yourself a Sony CMOS (100MP, 50MP, D810, A7R-II etc) for the dynamic range. This is regardless of whether using strobes or not, because it would be extremely difficult to illuminate the far background with strobes.

For what you can do with the dynamic range of the 50MP 44x33 sensor see the review by @Chris Giles: Pentax 645z review Pt2 – Image quality. I'm sure you have already enjoyed this with your D810. It would be a significant downgrade of dynamic range if you switch to a CCD digital back (e.g. IQ160). This will downgrade the dynamic range to old Canon level.

View attachment 125269

As for difference between the D810 and the 50MP 44x33 sensor, my personal opinion is that the difference would be marginal and does not justify the cost. See my comparison between IQ250+40HR vs D800E+S35Art. Given that the 50MP 44x33 sensor is already 3 years old, I would wait for a refresh of D810 or A7R-II.

Thanks! I enjoyed the comparison and review of the Pentax. I plan to keep my DSLR setup along with whatever direction I go in. May need to include the Pentax in my research. One thing I did not mention was the skin tones that seemed so much better from the IQ160 when I rented. May have been Capture One but the tones just looked better than what I get out of the camera from my D810. Not sure if Sony has similar tones and I have not had the opportunity to test the Fuji out. I know color can be changed but I like to shoot more than spending time editing. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[DSemick]

Disclaimer….I’m a dealer….

...as someone who deals with all the major brands of digital cameras, and the guy at Dodd’s who specializes in medium format, I recommend trying the Fuji for yourself to see if it suits your needs.

The dynamic range and depth out of a large sensor, CCD or CMOS, is stunning. I’ve always felt DB’s had a much more pleasing aspect ratio than DSLR’s providing a better use of the available resolution. Having worked with the Hasselblad’s X1D, I can say that the files do “feel” different than your typical DSLR file.

The ergonomics and GUI of a DSLR is much different than that of the X1D. The Fuji is definitely pulling from the DSLR experience.

This is one of those occasions where it would certainly benefit you to take advantage of a dealers rental/purchase program.

Denny

 

[JoshMerwin]

Lets try this again. Tried posting from my other computer twice and it crashed it... Lol. My opinion is that there is a large benefit in rendering for portraits with a medium format vs 35mm digital. I have not used the D810, but have used the D800E extensively. In terms of color accuracy, skin tones, light to dark transition, focus falloff, there is a difference a there is also an added depth to the images. I find this with the cropped backs like the 40/50mpx as well as the full frame ones like the 60/80/100. The great thing now is that you have so many options to choose from and they are so much more "affordable." I think you need to really try all of them at a good dealer and hopefully get a loaner for a day or two after checking them out. You also need to make a decision as to what your most important features are and how you will shoot it most. If you are shooting mostly available light with some strobe, I would strongly suggest trying both the X1D and the GFX. Because they are the most affordable options with cmos sensors. Hasselblad also has some great deals on the H6D-50C which is another step up price wise, but a huge advantage is that it comes with true focus, which is amazing. I have a H4X with an IQ140 that I use mostly in the studio and have been using it outside as well, but it's big and not that mobile and not good much above base ISO. I just got an X1D and it will be great for location work and I can use it in the studio as well. But I will most likely keep the other setup as well. I think the GFX will be great quality and feel more like a DSLR in terms of how it functions. But I think after testing them, you will see a difference. And if you don't see a difference, then obviously you will have an answer and save a bunch of money! :ROTFL:

 

[voidshatter]

May need to include the Pentax in my research. One thing I did not mention was the skin tones that seemed so much better from the IQ160 when I rented. May have been Capture One but the tones just looked better than what I get out of the camera from my D810.

I wouldn't prefer the Pentax 645Z as it's a bit too heavy and bulky for me, and the lenses are slow.

Yes, definitely arrange another demo before you make any purchase decision and do a side-by-side comparison against your D810. Use the same workflow in Capture One and compare the skin tone between cameras.

To be honest I'm a bit surprised as how you can manage to always shoot under ideal conditions to fully unleash the potential of CCD digital backs at base ISO hand-held without strobes.

The dynamic range of a large sensor, CCD or CMOS, is stunning.

Stunning is a subjective word. When making comparisons against the OP's existing D810, I wouldn't call the dynamic range of any CCD "stunning". It's definitely a downgrade of dynamic range from a D810 to any CCD digital back. Only the CMOS digital backs can hold up.

 

[BTT]

Thank you guys for your responses. I am leaning towards one of the new CMOS mirrorless cameras. Have a great weekend!

 

[hcubell]

This is one of those occasions where it would certainly benefit you to take advantage of a dealers rental/purchase program.

Denny

He is a dealer, but this is excellent advice. I would assume you could try both the Fuji and the X1D and they would let you credit the rental fee against the purchase price. Alternatively, lensrentals.com and borrowlenses.com rent them.

 

[DSemick]

He is a dealer, but this is excellent advice. I would assume you could try both the Fuji and the X1D and they would let you credit the rental fee against the purchase price. Alternatively, lensrentals.com and borrowlenses.com rent them.

Yes, with our program I credit the rental on the purchase.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on our demo GFX and doing some side by side comparisons myself!

Denny

 

[algrove]

I wouldn't prefer the Pentax 645Z as it's a bit too heavy and bulky for me, and the lenses are slow.

I owned the 645Z until recently and I can tell you the new lenses like the 55, 28-45 and 90 were not slow by any means. Those new LM lenses came into focus extremely fast.

 

[D&A]

I owned the 645Z until recently and I can tell you the new lenses like the 55, 28-45 and 90 were not slow by any means. Those new LM lenses came into focus extremely fast.

+1. Absoloutely! There is no reason Pentax shouldn't be in the mix. Very competitive and can compete with any of the current 50mp MFD cameras.

Each has pluses and minuses as is the case in any comparison when compaing cameras in a particular catagory, but output from the Pentax gets accolades from whomever takes the time to use it. Its not sexy and not delicate in nature or handling so its easy to minimize its place.

I very much admire the new crop of mirrorless MFD systems as well as the group of well established OVF cameras. As always, the choice is very subjective due to a myriad of criteria one judges a system by. Again these are strictly my personal thoughts.

Dave (D&A)

 

[JohnBrew]

I can vouch for the superiority of the cropped frame MF over D810 as I have both.

I can also vouch for Denny as he is a top-notch dealer and goes the extra mile to make sure you are getting a fair opportunity to trial a potential purchase.

 

[Shashin]

As someone that uses/used a D800E and 645D, I would take the 645D over the D800E (and the 645D is a CCD). The 645Z is supposed to be even better than the D. I would handhold any of those cameras in available light with not much of an issue.

Is the difference between a 44x33 and a 36x24 sensor "much" different? I think so, but others do not. But I am not sure we are looking for the same thing in terms of image quality either.

The Fuji looks like a nice camera. But I would try before you buy. Personally, I have not been impressed by EVFs--I like an optical finder. If you are used to 3:2 frame aspect ratios, you may find a 4:3 sensor different enough where it does not work for you.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Disclaimer….I’m a dealer….

...as someone who deals with all the major brands of digital cameras, and the guy at Dodd’s who specializes in medium format, I recommend trying the Fuji for yourself to see if it suits your needs.

The dynamic range and depth out of a large sensor, CCD or CMOS, is stunning. I’ve always felt DB’s had a much more pleasing aspect ratio than DSLR’s providing a better use of the available resolution. Having worked with the Hasselblad’s X1D, I can say that the files do “feel” different than your typical DSLR file.

The ergonomics and GUI of a DSLR is much different than that of the X1D. The Fuji is definitely pulling from the DSLR experience.



This is one of those occasions where it would certainly benefit you to take advantage of a dealers rental/purchase program.

Denny

Denny glad to see you here on GetDPI and also being one of our new sponsors of the site with your ad. I was hoping you folks would join in and glad you did and a warm welcome from the GetDPI team.

Guy

Best advice given rent them first. I would love to test the Hassy and Fuji myself. I had 5 Phase backs so nice to see these two come to market with some exciting products.

 

[algrove]

I can vouch for the superiority of the cropped frame MF over D810 as I have both.

I can also vouch for Denny as he is a top-notch dealer and goes the extra mile to make sure you are getting a fair opportunity to trial a potential purchase.

+1 to Denny. Keep it up and good to have you here.

 

[algrove]

As someone that uses/used a D800E and 645D, I would take the 645D over the D800E (and the 645D is a CCD). The 645Z is supposed to be even better than the D. I would handhold any of those cameras in available light with not much of an issue.

Is the difference between a 44x33 and a 36x24 sensor "much" different? I think so, but others do not. But I am not sure we are looking for the same thing in terms of image quality either.

The Fuji looks like a nice camera. But I would try before you buy. Personally, I have not been impressed by EVFs--I like an optical finder. If you are used to 3:2 frame aspect ratios, you may find a 4:3 sensor different enough where it does not work for you.

Agree with your 44x33 versus 36x24 comments.

As for Fuji GFX keep in mind one can change it to 3:2 with image reduced down to 45MP or just crop RAW's down to whatever shirts you.

 

[dchew]

I'm pissed that Denny is posting here now. He's my dealer and I don't want to share.


Welcome Denny!

Dave

Denny glad to see you here on GetDPI and also being one of our new sponsors of the site with your ad. I was hoping you folks would join in and glad you did and a warm welcome from the GetDPI team.

Guy

Best advice given rent them first. I would love to test the Hassy and Fuji myself. I had 5 Phase backs so nice to see these two come to market with some exciting products.