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How to process GFX files with C1.

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I tested this sensor in the Credo 50 which was several years ago, Steve correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was the first 50 CMOS back. Anyway that's not the real point the point is this is a old sensor that can't take PDAF from I understand it. Fuji and Hassy are both taking advantage of end of cycle pricing on these sensors. Honestly there is no magic here when it comes to the sensor, it's really the same basic design. Now some additional micro lenses may have been added for some OEMs but watch the marketing spin here. Now don't get me wrong this is a great sensor and nothing to stick your nose at . But new it is not.

I honestly think this is the A7r sensor cut to MF size
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I tested this sensor in the Credo 50 which was several years ago, Steve correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was the first 50 CMOS back. Anyway that's not the real point the point is this is a old sensor that can't take PDAF from I understand it. Fuji and Hassy are both taking advantage of end of cycle pricing on these sensors. Honestly there is no magic here when it comes to the sensor, it's really the same basic design. Now some additional micro lenses may have been added for some OEMs but watch the marketing spin here. Now don't get me wrong this is a great sensor and nothing to stick your nose at . But new it is not.

I honestly think this is the A7r sensor cut to MF size
Guy I believe the Phase One IQ250 was technically released before the Credo 50 (followed by the IQ350 and IQ150) but they were released relatively close to one another.

This is a scaled up A7R sensor and Sony has stated that in the past. Adding EFCS is a great thing to add but I believe Nikon did the same with the D810 to reduce "shutter shock" effects exhibited in some cases with the A7R so in that realm the GFX is not the first. They are the first to add ES ability to this generation of sensors which is the result of higher spec'ed processors (X-Pro Processor) from the original ones that Sony used (which is another customization). This is based on information I've read and videos that I've watched from Fuji. As far as their trustworthiness - Fuji started off saying that this wasn't a Sony produced sensor at all in the beginning and eventually Bily Luong admitted it was a customized version of the Sony sensor so I understand why people take their word with a grain of salt. No one is doubting that it has microlenses (the A7R had microlenses too) and the improved high ISO performance is likely due to better heat management and improved software processing. I don't know how much is relevant to actual photography in the sense you have to be at 100% to notice the marginal improvements at a pixel level sharpness of the GFX over the other applications of this sensor in similar cameras.

I know that PDAF can't be added easily without a redesign which drives up the cost and that's sort of the point. If this were a truly customized and unique sensor then that would be one of the first upgrades added. It's a customized version for Fuji G-mount designed lenses and I'm not so sure there's a plan to put the FF MF 100mp sensor into this body just because they said they design the lenses to resolve 100mp. If we all remember Zeiss said the same thing about the Otus lenses when the highest resolving sensor was the D800 at the time. Today the highest resolving sensor is the 50mp Canon which doesn't provide THAT much more resolution in reality. For some reason that rumor has spun out of control to assume that the next 44x33 sensor will be a 100mp model when the reality is that it's much more likely to be in the 50-75mp range at best so that it doesn't cannibalize the FF sales... beside 50mp is enough for most and many would sooner take substantial improvements to camera performance, 4k-8k video ability, and increased sensor read-out speed than raising the mp count.
 

2WK

Member
I just think if they had their own division or company it would greatly improve its revenue stream with some ideas I suggested or some other ways to get more folks to use it. It is the best tethering I ever used. For folks that make a living at this I really don't think we mind paying a couple hundred dollars for a full package. Or buy modules for the system you own idea.
Agreed! Plus, and I think this would be a big plus for Phase One; Allowing me to purchase the software to use with my Pentax or Fuji etc would make me think highly of Phase. They have this attitude that they are the best, and maybe they are...but locking out other manufactures raw files comes across (to me) as fear/weakness. Why be afraid of the little guys if you are indeed the BEST? If you let me use your software with my current camera, that would give me incentive to want to step up and upgrade to your superior camera system. Right now it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the brand...even though I love Capture One.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
That is not a fact.

I received mine in Nov 2016.

I was not the first one to receive one, I do know that for a fact.

I can accept that dkyle. I only based that on the general consensus from when I began seeing reports of deliveries. Regardless whether they began shipping in December, or November, or even October, Phase One had nearly a year (or at least 9-10 months) of 100mp shipments before Hasselblad began. It doesn't change the fact that Phase One dominated 100mp units delivered in 2016.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

rjp85

Member
I converted the GFX files to DNG in ACR, and they open right up in C1 9.3. No need to modify anything else.

Select the "Phase One IQ280 Portrait" profile for color that is identical to the ACR "Provia/Standard" profile. Also, select the "Film Standard" curve. The other profiles will provide more or less color saturation.

In ACR, I wasn't all that impressed with the files, and thought that my A7rII files in C1 were sharper. As soon as I did my normal settings/workflow in C1 with the Fuji files, I am now very impressed with the image quality, and I think the results can potentially be astonishing. However, for my money, I refuse to supplement 35mm with anything less than 40x54mm with 100MP or more.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I tested this sensor in the Credo 50 which was several years ago, Steve correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was the first 50 CMOS back. Anyway that's not the real point the point is this is a old sensor that can't take PDAF from I understand it. Fuji and Hassy are both taking advantage of end of cycle pricing on these sensors. Honestly there is no magic here when it comes to the sensor, it's really the same basic design. Now some additional micro lenses may have been added for some OEMs but watch the marketing spin here. Now don't get me wrong this is a great sensor and nothing to stick your nose at . But new it is not.

I honestly think this is the A7r sensor cut to MF size

Guy (and Trey) I think you're correct, I show January 2014 as the intro of the IQ250, and the IQ150 came out later in the year, along with the Credo 50. But to your point, these sensors have been around for a while, and it is likely that in addition to their volume purchase, Hasselblad and (especially) Fuji took advantage of toward end of life pricing on the 50mp sensor. I'm only speculating, but there certainly would seem to be potential for a new 44 x 33 sensor from Sony at some point in the near future (later this year, early next year?).


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Oh I think we will see a new sensor no doubt. My guess is Sony is waiting on a certain amount of sales with the Hassy and Fuji than end the life of this current sensor. Would not surprise me at all if they used the newer A7rII sensor now with PDAF and such. Most likely will be in the 70 range or whatever the main seems to be. My other guess Phase maybe the first to get it with there contracts maybe in place. I don't know this at all and truly just a guess but thy got the first ones so this makes sense. But I know nothing
 
V

Vivek

Guest
It is incorrect to say that the sensor is "old".

Also factor in the lost 8 months or so due to the earth quake damaging the Sony sensor plant.

X1D and GFX are truly shaking up the medium format scene.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
It is incorrect to say that the sensor is "old".

Also factor in the lost 8 months or so due to the earth quake damaging the Sony sensor plant.

X1D and GFX are truly shaking up the medium format scene.
I don't even consider the sensor in the P65+ to be "old". It's an awesome sensor. But anyone discussing the age of this sensor is certainly alluding to time frame and likelihood of a new product in that form factor. And the fact that 7 different medium format products were already using this sensor before the launch of the X1D/GFX, going back to 2014, is a reflection of the life cycle (and likely purchase price) of the product currently.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
It is incorrect to say that the sensor is "old".

Also factor in the lost 8 months or so due to the earth quake damaging the Sony sensor plant.

X1D and GFX are truly shaking up the medium format scene.
I don't think most are denying that the X1D and GFX are both revolutionary in the medium format world to bring user performance much closer to 35mm based systems. This is factual and true as they are the first truly unique mirrorless medium format systems built from the ground up with Leica S being the first MF system built from the ground up. As for the sensor tech the foundation is likely to be based on an "old" sensor with new modifications but that's just based on what I've read.

This is not meant to disparage either camera and I'm still evaluating the benefits of and deciding on buying into the Fuji system as I find it to be a bit more versatile FOR ME compared to the X1D. I'm leaning towards staying put on my Sony's and seeing what's right around the corner. At the root of it I'm happy with the Sony FE system but I'd like to see them implement the multiple aspect ratios in camera that Fuji GFX has (and yes I know I can do it in PP but I rather not if possible). I also expect to see some big announcements an more competition in MF in general with mirrorless making a much larger step forward (similar to how the A7RII feels leaps and bounds ahead of the A7R despite only 18 months in separation of release) in the next generation of cameras. I feel like that will truly be the time to "jump into" MF mirrorless.
 

Iktinos

Not Available
Oh I think we will see a new sensor no doubt. My guess is Sony is waiting on a certain amount of sales with the Hassy and Fuji than end the life of this current sensor. Would not surprise me at all if they used the newer A7rII sensor now with PDAF and such. Most likely will be in the 70 range or whatever the main seems to be. My other guess Phase maybe the first to get it with there contracts maybe in place. I don't know this at all and truly just a guess but thy got the first ones so this makes sense. But I know nothing
To what it worth (which is nearly zero). The first MF camera with Sony Cmos sensor was the Hasselblad H5C-50c beating the rest by ...half a year!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Developed in January released in March 2014.

Was the Hassy this Sony sensor. I can't remember.

That word old should be replaced by maybe end of cycle. It's not really old with a negative asterisk next to it by any means. These new Hassy and Fuji are really neat for the market. I would not know which one to buy so I'm very neutral here. I think they are both great. They are just using end of cycle sensors. 3 years for Sony is a long time. Earthquake certainly upset the basket. And who knows these cameras could of had the new gen sensors in it but had to resort to the current one in existence because of the earthquake. We may never know the impact of that but certainly there was a stoppage.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
To what it worth (which is nearly zero). The first MF camera with Sony Cmos sensor was the Hasselblad H5C-50c beating the rest by ...half a year!
Really!?! Seems like Hasselblad announced the H5D-50c on 22 January 2014 and Phase One announced the IQ250 on 24 January 2014... Just going by press release dates... Seems like the Hasselblad shipped in March with the WiFi enabled version coming 6 months later. The IQ250 began to shipped in January/February of 2014 (which is in line with Phase One historically not making announcements in general before products are ready to begin to ship) so while you seem to be technically correct on who announced first you are not correct on who was shipping first or the 6 moth window of time it took for availability.

The problem (or blessing depending on who's asking) with the internet is that it only takes a search or two to debunk proven alternative facts.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Developed in January released in March 2014.

Was the Hassy this Sony sensor. I can't remember.

That word old should be replaced by maybe end of cycle. It's not really old with a negative asterisk next to it by any means. These new Hassy and Fuji are really neat for the market. I would not know which one to buy so I'm very neutral here. I think they are both great. They are just using end of cycle sensors. 3 years for Sony is a long time. Earthquake certainly upset the basket. And who knows these cameras could of had the new gen sensors in it but had to resort to the current one in existence because of the earthquake. We may never know the impact of that but certainly there was a stoppage.
Guy no doubt the earthquake had negative effects on sensor and camera development as we can see from Sony's own cameras. The A7II is over 2 years old and the A7RII is approaching that same mark in late June/early July. The Nikon D810 hasn't been updated in some time (even if it's still a great camera) and the Hasselblad H6D-100 delays were 100% a result of the earthquake in which Hasselblad did right by prospective owners by offering H6D-50's to hold them over until final delivery without trade-in penalty.
 

Iktinos

Not Available
Really!?! Seems like Hasselblad announced the H5D-50c on 22 January 2014 and Phase One announced the IQ250 on 24 January 2014... Just going by press release dates... Seems like the Hasselblad shipped in March with the WiFi enabled version coming 6 months later. The IQ250 began to shipped in January/February of 2014 (which is in line with Phase One historically not making announcements in general before products are ready to begin to ship) so while you seem to be technically correct on who announced first you are not correct on who was shipping first or the 6 moth window of time it took for availability.

The problem (or blessing depending on who's asking) with the internet is that it only takes a search or two to debunk proven alternative facts.
There was no IQ-250 (the first P1 cmos) delivered before (end of) summer 2014. Hasselblad started delivering H5D-50 on February 2014.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
There was no IQ-250 (the first P1 cmos) delivered before (end of) summer 2014. Hasselblad started delivering H5D-50 on February 2014.

Factually incorrect Theo (by a wide margin).

I have tracking numbers to IQ250 customers in my email sent folders beginning February 18, 2014.

Come on, Theo, that's too easy.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
To what it worth (which is nearly zero). The first MF camera with Sony Cmos sensor was the Hasselblad H5C-50c beating the rest by ...half a year!
There was no IQ-250 (the first P1 cmos) delivered before (end of) summer 2014. Hasselblad started delivering H5D-50 on February 2014.
This is not correct. Phase One was first to ship a CMOS back*. As it was the first to ship 60mp, 80mp, and 100mp.

2014-Jan---- - Early in January, Phase One invites its dealers to a conference to be held on Jan 22 in Hong Kong
2014-Jan-22 - Hasselblad catches wind; issues a (ahem) minimalist press release; says to expect pricing/details in March
2014-Jan-24 - Phase One launches the IQ250 with full specs, sample files, pricing, and videos.
2014-Jan-27 - IQ250 Units start shipping to dealers
2014-Feb-14 - IQ250 Units start shipping to end-users.
2014-Mar-03 - Hasselblad announces pricing and availability of the H5D-50C (no wifi, live view only while tethered)
2014-Sep-16 - Hasselblad announces an improved H5D-50C model will ship in November with WiFi and live view on the LCD
2015-Feb-12 - After a delay, Hasselblad ships first H5D-50C with wifi and live view on back

*For those being pedantic Leaf had a back called CMOST that used a CMOS sensor in 2002! But it was a commercial flop and didn't share much in common with a modern CMOS back.

---

Jan 22 Hasselblad Press Release

Hasselblad is set to launch the world's first 50MP medium format camera using CMOS sensor technology. The groundbreaking H5D-50c will go on sale in March.

Ove Bengtson, Hasselblad Product Manager said: "This pioneering 50 megapixel CMOS sensor camera is based on our H5D-50 model but will offer a faster capture rate; longer shutter speed capability and much greater ISO performance. It will provide greatly improved Live Video in Phocus and will also be available with Multi-Shot functionality." He added: "We believe this will provide a highly compelling option for professional photographers who prefer a more versatile camera that enables them to immediately embrace a wider range of photo-disciplines but still encapsulating the exceptionally high-end image quality associated with Hasselblad."

Hasselblad's new CEO Ian Rawcliffe said: "We are extremely excited about this highly adaptable new camera which will offer an even broader palette of shooting options for our high-end customers."This is a world-first and underpins Hasselblad's status at the forefront of camera technology. It will be the first of a number of medium format capture innovations we have planned for the coming months."

Further information and prices for the new H5D-50c models will be announced in March.
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
There was no IQ-250 (the first P1 cmos) delivered before (end of) summer 2014. Hasselblad started delivering H5D-50 on February 2014.
I don't own a Phase One camera though I seriously considered an IQ140 about 3 years ago or so but that money ended up going to my wife's engagement ring.

I don't know what your huge beef is with Phase One cameras but you seem to take every moment to flame them and say they lie about their sales numbers (both here and over Facebook) while praising their software. So one that would be considered fraud so I doubt they lie about their sales numbers and two them being the MF market leader doesn't make Hasselblad, Fuji, Leica, or Pentax any less of the amazing cameras that they are.

It's weird IMO and life is too short to hold grudges but to each their own.
 
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