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CAMBO WRS 1600 or Alpa STC or any other suggestions?

A

algrove

Well-known member
I am not into technical cameras as yet, but just wanted input as to what current technical camera enthusiasts have to say about the pluses and minuses of each system for landscape use. I would use my IQ3100MP DB on whatever system I decide upon.

The plan is to eventually get 3 lenses, but want smaller ones like the 40HR (although I have never held one) and something of a medium telephoto, perhaps 100-120. It just seems the 32HR looks huge. Image circle is also a concern for tilting and then there is the stitching issue to consider in addition to getting lenses which work well with the 100MP from your experiences.

I want smaller and lighter options as I've seen individuals packing into a backpack. I use the f-stop Loka backpack right now, but it approaches 40 lbs with 6 lenses and there's the big RRS tripod and cube in addition. Love the XF, but I must shed some weight before my back gives out. TIA.
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
I can't imagine you seriously not looking into the Cambo Actus. The entire system is light and allows extreme flexibility. Lenses in Copal 0 vs. lenses in either proprietary Alpa or Cambo mounts are much less expensive. LOTS less expensive. You get it all.... why would you ever want to spend more money for the same results?

I have an Alpa STC and love the look, engineering but not the extra, extra, extra, cost of the same lenses that can be purchased in a Copal 0 mount.

Do yourself a favor and look into the Actus.

Victor
 
Jamgolf

Jamgolf

Member
Alps STC and Cambo 1600 are both excellent with high owner satisfaction rates. Cambo does have the ability for simultaneous 20mm shift+rise/fall [+tilt +swing]. Also, 1600 has a very convenient way of switching from landscape to portrait orientation. You may or may not find these options to be attractive.

If light weight is your priority, then Schneider lenses are clearly smaller and lighter when compared to Rodenstock. However, SK can only be bought pre-owned and some of the best SK lenses such as SK60 and SK120ASPH are hard to find in the pre-owned market.

40HR, SK60, 90HRSW and SK120ASPH have generous & usable (read sharp) image circles and most suited for stitching.
SK72 and SK150 are also very very good lenses and have large image circles.

Good luck !
 
V

voidshatter

Member
Why not consider the Arca Factum? It should also support tilting of 23HR if I'm correct?

I have no experience with longer lenses for technical cameras but I think something like the Cambo Actus is perhaps the right way to go (to save the weight and space of long barrels).

I focus on the wide angle side (because this is the strength of techcams) as well as mobility, so my favourite are the 23HR, 40HR and 75XL (72XL).

40HR is a tad sharper in the corner than 32HR. 40HR is also filter friendly and light-weighted. 32HR may get decentered when the tripod is moved without care (especially when it's wearing the heavy and bulky 150mm filter system).

I've been using the Alpa 12 STC ever since I got these lenses and never changed because I like the look best, but I would also consider the Arca Factum if I'm given a second chance.
 
dchew

dchew

Well-known member
It really depends on your priorities and how many lenses you plan to carry. Since you have live view the focusing problem is solved, so no real focus advantage from brand to brand.

At 590 grams the STC is the smallest and lightest body:
STC 590gms
Factum 640gms
WRS-1600 920gms
Actus 1200 gms

As Victor points out, the Actus gets comparatively lighter as you add lenses. Where it falls weight-wise as a total kit compared to the others depends on which lenses. Of course the Actus has the huge benefit of more movements.

Factum vs STC is an interesting comparison. Factum has tilt in the body but only shifts 15mm. STC shifts 18mm, but tilt with the STC and wide angles is limited to the Rodi's. 60mm and up works with everything, but below 60 it is Rodenstock only. STC can also do back tilt. The biggest difference between the two is the design and how each works in the field, which is personal preference. If you are ok with the limited movements these two offer they are hard to beat for size and weight, especially as a 1-2 lens kit.

Sitting in the middle is the WRS, but it can shift and rise/fall at the same time, which the STC/Factum can't do. They can do one or the other but not at the same time.

So you need to prioritize what is important. :thumbup:

Dave
 
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Jamgolf

Jamgolf

Member
You might also want to consider that Cambo WRS does have adapters such as this one, allowing usage of various Canon EF mount lenses with Cambo WRS.
WRE-CA-front_DB.jpg

And an adapter such as this one, allowing usuage of Hasselblad V lenses with Cambo WRS.


These adapters do open up some additional lens choices and possibilities.
 
tashley

tashley

Subscriber Member
I have the STC and love it, though it makes you work slowly. I've never used the Actus and know nothing about it but have always thought that it looks kinda flobbely, like it's all slack, and that it might be hard to zero effectively. That can't be true because people seem to rate it so highly but I have found it a bit off-putting!
 
D

daf

Member
As people already said, the actus is a very good system, very convenient to use, and allow much more movement than what you'll get with an alpa/arca/cambo, and you can mount almost any lens on it, and you can bring a sony as a backup... lens plate are a lot cheaper, but not sure that should be a consideration when you have a 100mpx back and consider Rod lenses, at the end when you'll do the grand total it will not make a big difference.

For me the big difference is that the Actus is much more convenient but «tripod only» work....when the cambo and arca can be used handhelded.
This is very important factor for me because i like to shoot also handheld, so after going through a wds, then a wrs, an actus for my sony, i end up with a wrc400+digitar(35+72+120) and an hcam for my sony...but not sure digitar plays well with 100mp;(
 
I

Iktinos

Not Available
IMO, using a technical camera or a DSLR with T/S lens attached without a tripod, is out of the question. I much prefer cameras with rails and different standards for the image area and lens, partly because I much prefer focusing with the rear standard, but also because I can work around the yaw errors that are induced in these systems and avoid distortions caused by wrong positioning of the lens entrance pupil.

H-cam? ...no thanks! I would never tilt a retrofocus lens by its base!
 
D

daf

Member
Iktinos said:
IMO, using a technical camera or a DSLR with T/S lens attached without a tripod, is out of the question.
H-cam? ...no thanks! I would never tilt a retrofocus lens by its base!
Click to expand...
Well, we all have differents need and likes !

My most published architecture image (7 front cover magazine specialized in architecture, 42 magazines inside with full report, and 1book cover) has been made handheld with a 35 digitar shifted +18mm which is much more than what is normally acceptable... but all in all, what is important is not always technical data but the image you do!

And that what's cool by now, is that we have so much different gear, somuch choice to play.
There is no ONE WAY to use a camera, everyone can do what he like and how he like to do it :)
 
E

Erik Lundqvist

Member
daf said:
Well, we all have differents need and likes !

My most published architecture image (7 front cover magazine specialized in architecture, 42 magazines inside with full report, and 1book cover) has been made handheld with a 35 digitar shifted +18mm which is much more than what is normally acceptable... but all in all, what is important is not always technical data but the image you do!

And that what's cool by now, is that we have so much different gear, somuch choice to play.
There is no ONE WAY to use a camera, everyone can do what he like and how he like to do it :)
Click to expand...
Could you please share your photo with us? :)
 
I

Iktinos

Not Available
daf said:
Well, we all have differents need and likes !

There is no ONE WAY to use a camera, everyone can do what he like and how he like to do it :)
Click to expand...
I can agree that "everyone can do what he like and how he like to it", but still, there is ONLY ONE (correct) way to use a camera. This is not me saying, it is the optical theory of physics.

Tilting (or swinging) a retrofocus lens by its mount or further away from it (outside the lens groups of elements) as it happens with third party adapters (like the H-cam really is) induces yaw errors and therefore high distortions in the image. Using shifts only on these adapters doesn't cause distortions, therefore examples with shifts only are not relevant.

By using a view camera OTOH, one can get self involved and make lens boards (or convert existing ones) so that he re-positions the entrance pupil of the lens as to be exactly at the tilt center and on the swing axis.

He will then avoid yaw errors (and therefore distortions), maximize the performance of the lens (and therefore image quality) and even be able to stitch distortionless images by swinging the whole camera if he cares to have the swing axis of the lens aligned with the tripod's swinging axis. He can even then achieve ultra wide captures at close focus interiors by avoiding the use of ultra wide lenses and even be able to swing the lens between the captures for having absolute control of DOF in the final image.

I guess a pilot can also do "whatever he likes" when piloting, but this doesn't mean that if the plane tilts with a yaw error when it is landing it won't crash (and everybody in it killed), it will surely crash!
 
D

daf

Member
Iktinos said:
I can agree that "everyone can do what he like and how he like to it", but still, there is ONLY ONE (correct) way to use a camera. This is not me saying, it is the optical theory of physics.
Click to expand...
I guess we will never agree on this. optical theories of physics doesn't make picture, but many and i do ;)
And If we all should make picture like a pilot drive his plane, not sure photography would be interesting ;) don't you think?
 
E

Erik Lundqvist

Member
I

Iktinos

Not Available
daf said:
I guess we will never agree on this. optical theories of physics doesn't make picture, but many and i do ;)
And If we all should make picture like a pilot drive his plane, not sure photography would be interesting ;) don't you think?
Click to expand...
I don't see where we disagree.

We agree on optical theory and how it is correctly implemented on a product and we also agree that people are free to do as they please.

Therefore where is the disagreement?
 
A

algrove

Well-known member
Ok, to rephrase, what system is the lightest, smallest and easily portable with say a 3 lens system?

I want a MOBILE system with relatively ease of use in a straight forward way where I can benefit by using my IQ3100 DB.

I understand Rodenstock lenses are larger than old Schnieders, but shimming them to the Alpa cameras creates more expense, etc.

That new Cambo WRS 1600 sure looks like a compact setup. What were the reasons many of you bought into this setup?

Perhaps a visit to PhotoPlus in NYC this fall will be my best opportunity to try any setups available. I just remember the Alpa booth at Photokina in 2014 sure did not want to educate me about their system and left me wondering why anyone would lay out hard earned funds for gear from a pompous company like that.
 
D

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
algrove said:
Perhaps a visit to PhotoPlus in NYC this fall will be my best opportunity to try any setups available. I just remember the Alpa booth at Photokina in 2014 sure did not want to educate me about their system and left me wondering why anyone would lay out hard earned funds for gear from a pompous company like that.
Click to expand...
I may selfishly suggest that you don't need to wait until Photo Plus.

In a one or two day trip to NYC or LA, arranged anytime, you could see just about every solution that is reasonable to purchase in the US (the brands you can't find here would be those that are not well distributed or supported in the US).

We have nearly every Arca and Cambo setup at our demo studio as well as the A Series / Alpa STC. Other brands/models can be found within a few blocks of our NYC location as well.

You're welcome to take all the time you want with the gear, trying different combinations of digital backs, bodies, and lenses. Examine the results on a Mac Pro with an Eizo. And if you'd like we even do rentals-toward-purchase so you could take the system of your choice away after your appointment and shoot anywhere in the system, even fly home with it, and return it after.

No crowds, and no one competing for time/attention, and more appealing surroundings than a generic convention center interior. There's even coffee :).

I've worked a dozen trade shows (maybe more) and no matter how hard you try it's impossible to give someone that level of experience on a busy trade show floor.

It's literally our job to make the process as easy and useful as possible for you.

And if you can't come in person we can also arrange a Remote Demo Center appointment with you. It's not quite the same as being able to touch/feel/shoot yourself but it can help narrow down your options pretty quickly, and then followup with a rental-toward-purchase shipped to you.
 
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