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Thread: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    In my Icelandic thread I noted that I had lost a lot of shots to camera shake at shutter speeds of 1/80th and below, despite using a tripod and cable release. The rig was a Phamiya on a Gitzo aluminium GT2330 with Manfrotto 322RC2 ball head and a 150mm Mamiya lens.

    Many people kindly suggested that I try to narrow down the problem and I have done so by replicating it with the same setup at 1/20th and 1/80th with the shutter firing immediately, with MUP and a one second delay and with MUP and a six second delay. As you might expect the problem is worst at 1/20th and no MUP but is still slightly visible even at an 80th and six second MUP delay.

    So I switched tripod rig to my Manfrotto 055PROB tripod with 410 geared head, moving total weight up from 5.6lbs to 8.2lbs. (for Euro types that's a gain of just over a kilo). The geared head is MUCH nicer to use and has a much larger plate too.

    I'm guessing that the tripod is the major factor but in any event even at 1/20th of a second the difference is immediate: provided MUP and at least a second's delay is used, the shake is gone.

    Lordy how I wish I'd known that last week!

    Thanks for your help all.

    Tim

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Tim,

    Manfrotto heads have an annoying tendency to develop some play. Try tightening the hex screws underneath.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    Tim,

    Manfrotto heads have an annoying tendency to develop some play. Try tightening the hex screws underneath.
    Thanks Bernard, though I have to say that the head is as tight as anything - so much so that it can be hard to get the exact angles one wants which is why I prefer the geared head. I will eventually test the ball head on the manfrotto tripod and I expect thereby to demonstrate that the problem is the tripod not the head...

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Good to know you've identified the problem. Thanks for the report.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Hmm, I have an older Manfrotto 055C which I was thinking of replacing, but now I am all curious about this. Did you do any separate tests to see if the problem was the head or the tripod?
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Hmm, I have an older Manfrotto 055C which I was thinking of replacing, but now I am all curious about this. Did you do any separate tests to see if the problem was the head or the tripod?
    Not yet but I will. I am, however, pretty sure it's the tripod not the head: my Manfrotto ballhead is built like the Battleship Potempkin...

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Didn't the Potempkin sink?
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Under the weight of the extra "p" - Potemkin.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Броненосец Потёмкин
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    did you note in LL P65 review, he mentioned shake issues, even with MLU. found he had to wait six seconds for the mirror slap to dampen out.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    did you note in LL P65 review, he mentioned shake issues, even with MLU. found he had to wait six seconds for the mirror slap to dampen out.
    Yup I saw that... but IMHO landscapes and light aren't static: there's still a moment to be seized and sometimes that moment evolves faster than six seconds so I'd rather have a more well damped tripod rig so I have wider latitude of choice...

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Indeed: Nothing gives you sharper lenses than a good, sturdy tripod and a quality head. I recommend a minimum of 2 series Gitzo carbon fiber for all MF work, 3 series is better, and then I like to see it supporting at minimum a BH55 or similar capacity head. (Yes, the BH40 is too small IMO.)

    The other thing we find with unsharp images on our workshops all the time are loose camera or lens plates -- use properly fitting anti-twist plates, definitely NOT the generic kind with cork or rubber bases, and screw them on tight!

    Double issue with MF cameras: Many have native 3/8" tripod mounting holes with 1/4" reducer sleeves inside. You can tighten a 1/4" foot in that adapter and if the sleeve is loose, so is your foot -- so make sure your sleeve is tight too if your camera has one.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    I don't like to use the self-timer in lieu of a cable release. This is partly do the lack of control over waiting out vibrations and wind movements, and partly due to timing of the shutter release for the composition of the image. For me, the timer is only my last ditch tool for when I've lost or broken my cable release. And having done so to the Mamiya, I would (and will) care a spare on any important photo trip.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Here are some of my thoughts from LL

    http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...0&#entry267688

    Bill

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Three words and yes I am a snob. Gitzo carbon Fiber. There is nothing else better in my mind. Well maybe there is but Carbon fiber absorbs vibrations better than steel or aluminum will. Also get a head that will hold three times the weight you expect. Here is where overkill is a good thing
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    I, too, have found CF to be dampen vibration much better than aluminum (as have those testing such things). I still have a couple of aluminum tripods (one is a Gitzo Explorer) and they make nice light stands or scrim holders for tabletop stuff, etc.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Has anyone compared the Gitzo Basalt to the Gitzo carbon fiber in terms of vibration damping?

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    It's amazing how much movement can come into play ... I learned this when shooting a bunch of images for a pin registered animation job. The slightest movement and the static background in the series of images jumped all over the place when layered and run through to check the subject action.

    I reverted to a Locked down Gitzo G 1525 and Manfrotto ProBall 469, sand bagged the tripod with a 25 lb bag, and used a 3 foot long cable release ... while banning everyone from any movement in the room before we could get it all to settle down.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    I'm looking to buy a carbon fibre Gitzo Explorer. The reduced weight will be a bonus when trekking but I'm a little concerned that I'll always need to weigh the tripod down to get the stability of a heaver tripod. Any experience anyone?

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    DigiLloyd has an excellent for-pay article on sharpness on his site that includes tests of various tripod setups and their effect on sharpness. The results are pretty interesting since he found improvements within manufacturers lines (Gitzo) that seemed a bit counterintuitive. Number of leg sections and center column come into play. Granted, the tests were done with now "older" high-end DSLRs, but I think the results still apply. My guess is that if the larger sensor cameras are already "delicate" with regard to shake, there will be no substitute for very stable tripods. I think it's unlikely that a tripod designed for easy carry is also going to have the stability required.

  21. #21
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    You guys might be interested in reading the following article. I never found anything else on the web strictly testing tripod stability and vibration. Markins has some testing info on their site, but not quite like this. That said, I still bought a Gitzo carbon tripod, albeit a much burlier one than in this test.

    http://www.optiline.no/berlebach/ima..._lfi1_2006.PDF

    It's interesting to note that the 2 most expensive tripods did the worst in this test. Now granted, stiffness and weight holding ability are different than overall stability and vibration damping. I think the lightness of the carbon paired with the utmost stiffness did them in on these test, they just pop around on the cardboard, whereas as the wood just flexes and absorbs. Before you start complaining that you don't shoot on cardboard, alot of the surfaces you set up on are a lot less rigid than you might think. We've all felt that 12" concrete and steel second floor of the mall flex when a few people walk by. Food for thought.

    I almost went for wood after reading this; I still believe it would provide better vibration damping than my massive CF pod, but damn that CF is sexy and easier to deal with.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    (Justin and I were writing at the same time: his link is the LFI test I refer to.)

    Leica Fotografie International (LFI) did a test in January 2006 where they pointed a laser pointer at a wall, loaded 8 different tripods (Berlebach, Gitzo, Giotto, Manfrotto, two each) with a 4kg camera setup with an equivalent of a 1700mm lens on it, focused on the laser dot, and induced three different kinds of vibration: shutter release, pendulum attached to the bottom of the tripod, and a 2kg bag which they let drop right next to the tripods, which were standing on corrugated carboard, to simulate a non-stable surface like earth. They then photographed the laser dot at 1/15s and compared the patterns made.

    The tests could be summarized as follows: for a given weight of tripod, all tripods perform similarly, but wood, and carbon fiber dampen the best. In a per-Euro comparison, the Berlebach's wiped the floor with the rest, and the Gitzos were the worst.

    Summary, for stability, you need a heavy tripod. The Berlebachs were 2.9kg and 2.7kg, respectively (Report 2022, Report 8023). The Gitzos were 1.9kg and 1.6kg (G1257LVL, G1198). The Manfrottos were 2.6kg and 1.9kg (055ProB, 055MF3). The Giottos were 2.6kg and 2.7kg (MT8170, MT9160). The Berlebach 2022 (2.9kg) was much better than anything else, with the Berlebach 8023 (2.7kg) being good too. The Manfrotto 055ProB (2.6kg) and Giotto MT8170 (2.6kg) were next, but noticeably worse. The Giotto was better than the Manfrotto (carbon vs. aluminium), but not that much.

    In summary, for the kind of load they were using, you won't get around a tripod of around 3kg or just less. I presume that the shorter focal lengths of MF are compensated by the very high resolution of the sensors, and the situation won't be very different. The loads the tripods are capable of are totally irrelevant (other than you should not use one which cannot carry your camera).

    My personal take: I will test my Manfrotto 055C, but am mentally prepared to order a Berlebach. I have given up on a Gitzo. Given that tripod weight is most important, the price just doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by carstenw; 14th March 2009 at 06:52.
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    keith:

    i have a couple of carbon fiber Gitzo's, one with the flat plate (1325), one with the rapid rise center column (1328) if you are interested. About 4 lbs, and rated for 26 lb load. 3 section legs.

    1325
    http://www.photographyreview.com/cat...6_3114crx.aspx

    1328 (similar to this)
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...ighlight=gitzo

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by jmvdigital View Post
    .... but damn that CF is sexy and easier to deal with.
    I dunno. I've always thought that the Berlebach looks kinda sexy too....

    Not quite in a "Arca-Cube-Porn-ish" kind of way, but just still damn retro-sexy.


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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Yup I saw that... but IMHO landscapes and light aren't static: there's still a moment to be seized and sometimes that moment evolves faster than six seconds so I'd rather have a more well damped tripod rig so I have wider latitude of choice...
    Tim:

    Is it possible to prefire the mirror and then use a cable release to take the shot at the precise moment. When I shoot my DMR, this is what I do. The first press of the shutter release trips the mirror and I then wait for the moment to fire the shutter with a second press of the cable release.

    Jack has seen a few of my DMR files in his printing workshop and he can attest to how sharp they are using this method.

    Robert

  26. #26
    jmvdigital
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Tim:

    Is it possible to prefire the mirror and then use a cable release to take the shot at the precise moment. When I shoot my DMR, this is what I do. The first press of the shutter release trips the mirror and I then wait for the moment to fire the shutter with a second press of the cable release.
    Rob, I think he was explaining why he prefers a cable release (with MLU) versus MLU with a timer. You're on the same page.

    -J

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    I have a wooden REIS pod, bought it because of all the "wood dampens vibrations better than anything" hype. In the end when shooting 8x10, I found it was all just hype. None of these had center columns, which very definitely degrade performance of any pod. My CF Gitzo 3 and 5 series literally blew the wooden REIS and Aluminum Gitzos away, and they weigh a *LOT* less. The REIS is now sitting in the corner of my studio with a Kodak Brownie mounted on it as thematic decoration. If anybody wants it, make me an offer

    Currently I am using a Gitzo 3 series, 6x CF with NO center column (this is important!), with a good head mounted -- the Arca Cube -- and have NO vibration issues using a 3 second delay after mirror-up with my MF rig.

    So in summary: I been there in the field, shooting in real-world situations with all of them, and I can heartily confirm nothing works better than CF in real-world applications.

    HOWEVER! The one disclaimer is I am tall -- 6'-6" (198 CM) -- and as such my tripods are extended further than most folks and admittedly this *MAY* have an impact on final results.

    So my .02 only and YMMV,
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Tim:

    Is it possible to prefire the mirror and then use a cable release to take the shot at the precise moment. When I shoot my DMR, this is what I do. The first press of the shutter release trips the mirror and I then wait for the moment to fire the shutter with a second press of the cable release.

    Jack has seen a few of my DMR files in his printing workshop and he can attest to how sharp they are using this method.

    Robert
    Yup, it's what I always do at any shutter speed under about a 500th but on the tripod rig I was using in iceland it was still not enough to stop shake... plus after a while the camera gets bored and drops the mirror, usually just as the wave you have been waiting for swells up!

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I have a wooden REIS pod, bought it because of all the "wood dampens vibrations better than anything" hype. In the end when shooting 8x10, I found it was all just hype. None of these had center columns, which very definitely degrade performance of any pod. My CF Gitzo 3 and 5 series literally blew the wooden REIS and Aluminum Gitzos away, and they weigh a *LOT* less. The REIS is now sitting in the corner of my studio with a Kodak Brownie mounted on it as thematic decoration. If anybody wants it, make me an offer

    Currently I am using a Gitzo 3 series, 6x CF with NO center column (this is important!), with a good head mounted -- the Arca Cube -- and have NO vibration issues using a 3 second delay after mirror-up with my MF rig.

    So in summary: I been there in the field, shooting in real-world situations with all of them, and I can heartily confirm nothing works better than CF in real-world applications.

    HOWEVER! The one disclaimer is I am tall -- 6'-6" (198 CM) -- and as such my tripods are extended further than most folks and admittedly this *MAY* have an impact on final results.

    So my .02 only and YMMV,
    Okay Jack, that sounds good enough for me... now to investigate the costs of it all. I love the look of the cube and have been itching to get one!

    T

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    How to gauge how shakey your rig is...

    I have a new method for quick 'n' dirty evaluation of how rigid a tripod/head combo is. I put a long lens (at least 100mm but 300 is best) on a canon 5dMKII and then set it to MF, live view, 10x focus view on the rig in question. Then I try it briefly in a breeze, on a wooden floor, walk around a bit, tap the pod legs, tap the camera etc.

    You'd be amazed at how much you can tell from this and how much it makes you realise just how much jitter there is on a tripod!

    T

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    keith:

    i have a couple of carbon fiber Gitzo's, one with the flat plate (1325), one with the rapid rise center column (1328) if you are interested.
    Thanks, but I really need the flexibility of a Benbo but in CF, hence my interest in the Gitzo Explorer series.

    Keith

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    The Gitzo Explorer is quite nice, as is the similar "crane-style" 'pod from Induro. One possible advantage (depending on one's taste) is that the Induro allows the column to slide down the center, rather than along the side of center, when used upright.

    I'm preferring larger legs than these for my Mamiya gear, but have used these with my 5D and lenses to 300mm. For macro the Explorer style tripods are really helpful for DSLR sized kits.

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    Re: How to gauge how shakey your rig is...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I have a new method for quick 'n' dirty evaluation of how rigid a tripod/head combo is. I put a long lens (at least 100mm but 300 is best) on a canon 5dMKII and then set it to MF, live view, 10x focus view on the rig in question. Then I try it briefly in a breeze, on a wooden floor, walk around a bit, tap the pod legs, tap the camera etc.

    You'd be amazed at how much you can tell from this and how much it makes you realise just how much jitter there is on a tripod!

    T
    FWIW, if you check by banging legs, I suspect wood may win. However if you check by banging the camera, I suspect CF will win
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    I use a Gitzo GT5540LS along with a Cube and find that it is a rock solid combination. I also used this combination testing a Cambo Ultima last week and found it solid even with the added weight.

    This pod works well for me putting the camera just about at eye level; I did find I had to lower the legs when I used the Ultima.

    I'm slightly taller than Jack and this is a system that works well for me.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    I'm slightly taller than Jack
    Braggart!




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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I'm looking to buy a carbon fibre Gitzo Explorer. The reduced weight will be a bonus when trekking but I'm a little concerned that I'll always need to weigh the tripod down to get the stability of a heaver tripod. Any experience anyone?
    I carry a backpack and a Gitzo 1325 CF. When taking a photo, I sling the backpack over the tripod by clipping together the two small straps that hold the shoulder straps together. The weight of the lenses inside the backpack makes the tripod very stable.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Interestingly, Don's Gitzo weighs around 2.8kg, the same as the more stable tripods in the LFI test. There seems to be something about getting up around this weight... One thing that LFI sadly didn't test is what happens to vibration dampening when you hang something from the hook. Clearly the tripod is more stable, but does it dampen vibrations better too?

    It occurs to me that Jack and Don might have a completely different tripod experience than the rest of us who don't need a tripod which reaches into the lower cloud levels
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    I am STILL waiting for my new Gitzo to come . Mine is a much lower cloud level style. 3541L with center column. I happen to like center column for when I need to be taller for doing interiors and such also it gives me some micro adjustment if I need a inch or two to get higher. Even though a center column can be problematic it keeps the size of the legs down for travel and such. I had the 2 series 2451L and just wanted a little more meat
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    It occurs to me that Jack and Don might have a completely different tripod experience than the rest of us who don't need a tripod which reaches into the lower cloud levels
    FWIW, my main pod is the 3541XLS (it only weighs 1.97kg) and I use it with the first 2 moveable sections fully extended and the last section about 6" extended 90% of the time. And I will go to the mat saying it's the single best tripod I've ever used. But again, I do *NOT* have a center column in it, just the flat top plate -- I strongly believe center columns increase vibrations even if set to their lowest level...

    Oh, and I *used* to replace the brass head bolt on the underside of the top plate with a steel 3/8" thread eye-bolt, which provided a "hook" to hang my bag from. In the end, I felt the practice offered variable results; a swinging 30 pound bag adding more movement to the assembly than it removed... (Note of caution if you try this -- that brass bolt is blind-pinned into place and you have to snap that hidden pin to remove it, rendering the bolt useless for reuse. Use a jam nut on the underside of the plate to hold whatever new bolt you replace it with firmly in place.)

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  40. #40
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Okay Jack, that sounds good enough for me... now to investigate the costs of it all. I love the look of the cube and have been itching to get one!

    T
    Tim,

    The Cube is outlandishly expensive, but *EVERYBODY* I've recommended it to that actually bought it, has commented that the pain of purchase was forgotten after the first 15 minutes of use. Really, I'm not making that up.

    The real killer for me, was the realization that when sitting on top of my Gitzo CF pod, the money invested in the total pod assembly would provide maybe 3 years worth of food and lodging for a family of 5 in any 3rd world country...

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Yea we are all not as tall as you Green Giant. Some of us need a step stool. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    With respect to tripod stabilization with extra weight, I have found that the typical single point, such as the central hook or whatever, does impart more lateral movements, even when things appear "still". What I have found to work is to create more equal tension across all the legs, rather than just the center. I use a sort of apron sling that attaches to each leg and the weight goes into the center area, providing inward and downward tension on the legs at the same time. This does tend to dampen vibration quite nicely, as well as create a more stable set-up. It just is not as convenient to set up and use as simply hanging a bag from a hook. Works nicely when set up for lots of shots from a single spot, but a bit cumbersome to break down and haul around quickly. Just a thought for those doing landscapes and longer exposure shots where any vibration could impact things.

    LJ

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Tim,

    The Cube is outlandishly expensive, but *EVERYBODY* I've recommended it to that actually bought it, has commented that the pain of purchase was forgotten after the first 15 minutes of use. Really, I'm not making that up.

    The real killer for me, was the realization that when sitting on top of my Gitzo CF pod, the money invested in the total pod assembly would provide maybe 3 years worth of food and lodging for a family of 5 in any 3rd world country...

    Cheers,
    C'mon Jack, things aren't that bad in the UK yet... it's not an either or for me!

    Seriously, thanks for the advice. I'm not sure whether the BH-55 with its slight weight saving and heavy price saving will maybe be the choice but I feel the Cube calling sooo badly... I just need a second hand one...

  44. #44
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    I really am a nerd - I did a tripod/head test in detail

    Lordy is this ever a weak use of a Sunday but here goes:

    Gitzo GT2330 tripod (two stage, light)
    Manfrotto 055PROB tripod (three stage, heavier but still fairly light)
    Manfrotto 32RC2 Ball Head (lighter and hard to adjust)
    Manfrotto 410 Geared Head (heavier but really nice to adjust)

    For weight reasons the rig I took to Iceland was the Gitzo pod and the Frotto Ballhead and as we now all know I got shake (with MUP and cable) at and under 1/80th in conditions that varied widely from still to breezy and underfoot from shale to sand to snow to rock. I should add that the Gitzo at some point lost a rubber foot but I have a rough idea when that happened and it seems not to have made much difference.

    So today I tested the Phamiya on each possible rig combo and at shutter speeds from 1/20th through 1/125th. Footing was suspended wooden decking, I used MUP and then almost immediate cable release (about a one second delay) because that's how I want to be able to work in the field.

    The results were given either a tick for "good enough for me" or a ? for "marginal" or an X for 'Poor" or XX for "Woof"

    So in order of success (good first):

    Geared On Manfrotto
    1/20th X
    1/40th X
    1/80th √
    1/125th √

    Geared On Gitzo
    1/20th X
    1/40th X
    1/80th ?
    1/125th √

    Ball on Manfrotto
    1/20th XX
    1/40th X
    1/80th ?
    1/125th √

    Ball On Gitzo
    1/20th XX
    1/40th XX
    1/80th ?
    1/125th √


    In other words, the heavier the rig the better... as you've all been telling me!

    Still now I know what speeds I can use with the cheap nasty gear I own until the Cube arrives and I mount it one of the Pyramids of Giza...

    T

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    My 3541XLS came with a hook installed, and I DO use it. But as Jack states, a swinging weight is of little help. In "studio" I have several sandbags which I use for macro stuff. They are position on each leg and the center hook. In the field I use a back back and a waist pack, and depending on conditions and needs, will typically hang one or both from the hook. (Or sometimes strap the waist pack around the legs near the top.) BUT if it's windy or you can't stop the weight from swinging, etc. it's better to just let things settle down without all the crap draped on the 'pod. Each circumstance should discount the choice of weighting. Frankly, most of the time I'm finding that the 3541XLS needs no help, but I'm still kind of using the "belt and suspenders" approach if I have the time and I'm in the mood. A result of trying to wring more out of my Explorer and other 'pods I suppose.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    FWIW, my main pod is the 3541XLS (it only weighs 1.97kg) and I use it with the first 2 moveable sections fully extended and the last section about 6" extended 90% of the time. And I will go to the mat saying it's the single best tripod I've ever used. But again, I do *NOT* have a center column in it, just the flat top plate -- I strongly believe center columns increase vibrations even if set to their lowest level...

    Oh, and I *used* to replace the brass head bolt on the underside of the top plate with a steel 3/8" thread eye-bolt, which provided a "hook" to hang my bag from. In the end, I felt the practice offered variable results; a swinging 30 pound bag adding more movement to the assembly than it removed... (Note of caution if you try this -- that brass bolt is blind-pinned into place and you have to snap that hidden pin to remove it, rendering the bolt useless for reuse. Use a jam nut on the underside of the plate to hold whatever new bolt you replace it with firmly in place.)

    Cheers,

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    tim:

    1) Your Gitzo 2330 will not be heavy enough and is aluminum so I'd say forget it; IMO you really need a 3 series Gitzo CF at minimum for rock-solid MF capture.

    2) The Cube is going to be virtually impossible to find. I have seen two total in the past three years and even then they wen't for maybe 90% of new -- and there is a reason for that

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    My journey saw me travel the following roads -

    1) muck around with all of the above issues
    2) only shoot in perfect conditions
    3) avoid complicated full of vibration potential SLR type camera platforms


    In the field nothing has delievered to me a sharper image than a simple Alpa set up.

    I am considering an arTec to add tilt and shift and precise focusing capability - but hesitate because it is a more complicated relative to Alpa. The (now) geared tilt movement on the arTec has removed a previous design weakness....I dont wish to end up back somewher beetwen 1 and 2. but the tilt is tempting for the type of landscape shooting I like.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    My journey saw me travel the following roads -

    1) muck around with all of the above issues
    2) only shoot in perfect conditions
    3) avoid complicated full of vibration potential SLR type camera platforms


    In the field nothing has delievered to me a sharper image than a simple Alpa set up.

    I am considering an arTec to add tilt and shift and precise focusing capability - but hesitate because it is a more complicated relative to Alpa. The (now) geared tilt movement on the arTec has removed a previous design weakness....I dont wish to end up back somewher beetwen 1 and 2. but the tilt is tempting for the type of landscape shooting I like.
    By far the sharpest images I got all week were taken on the Cambo setup mounted on the same tripod that gave me grief otherwise and in a 60mph gusting wind.... however the shutter speed was 1/250th, about the highest I shot all week and so I'm not sure what I can take from it. I'll try the CF gitzo tripod first, then add a cube if needs be...

    No wonder so few people exhibit large prints!

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Pete,

    I like much about the arTec too, but especially the tilt function. If they had a Phase One back mount for it I fear that I'd be ordering one. I guess I'm lucky there isn't that option yet.

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    Re: An update on camera shake and tripods (Phase)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Pete,

    I like much about the arTec too, but especially the tilt function. If they had a Phase One back mount for it I fear that I'd be ordering one. I guess I'm lucky there isn't that option yet.
    Your situation kind of underlines my only problem with closed back systems that dont allow the user to choose multiple shooting platforms, the cost of a back is multiples of the cost of decent hardware.

    The only reason I added a Sinar 75LV to my kit was the interchangeable adaptors. I can use Hy6 ( native) or any of the three others including V I have ordered. *The arTec supports the V mount as well as Sinar.

    incidentally, I would have been just as happy with a Hasselblad CF back which offers the same utility - all the backs are great and if you wish to get your hands dirty and use the functionality that Adobe has delivered now in their profiling software - you can pretty much dial in a look that replicates the precanned looks that all athe back makers deliver. Personally, I cant be bothered trying to improve the Sinar look - I have found it to be second to none in natural colour look straight our of the can so to speak.

    I will report to the forum if I decide to go ahead with the arTec - either way though I still see my simple Alpa as the most elegantly perfect simple system I have come across - for MFD shooting.


    Best
    Pete

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