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Sony to announce new 100MP and 150MP medium format BSI sensors in 2018

Link

First a quick reminder - in some parts of the world it's already April 1st, so in the next 24 hours take anything you read online with a grain of salt.

There is a video interview on YouTube with Sony representatives that talks about new 100MP and 150MP medium format BSI sensors that are supposed to be introduced in 2018
Didn't watch the video carefully and seriously, but there are several sensor part numbers listed:

IMX161: we already know that this is the 44x33 50MP one in the IQ250
IMX211: likely to be the 54x40 100MP one in the IQ3100
IMX461: likely to be a 44x33 100MP BSI?
IMX411: likely to be a 54x40 150MP BSI?

Sony Large Format Lineup.JPG
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Hmm, seems an overly elaborate hoax to not be legit.

I have friends who would salivate over those 100mp and 150mp B/W sensors on that roadmap too.

Personally, without wishing to pronounce a 'Mancuso' ** , I think that I'm done at my IQ3100. There's nothing that I can print TODAY that runs out of resolution even 44in wide using my 100mp back. Heck, even my 50mp back.

** Guy is famous for saying that he's done and then ... buys into the next generation :thumbs::ROTFL:
 
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f8orbust

Active member
Assuming it's not a hoax...

...the IMX461 @ 44x33 @ 100MP would seem to be the standout as it would slot straight into the next generation of H/B's X1D / Fuji's GFX platform.

100MP mirrorless @ < $10k (body only) would be quite something.
 

Bernard

Member
In other words, there will be a bunch of slightly used X1Ds and GFXs on the market in about 18 months. Nothing too surprising about that.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Personally, without wishing to pronounce a 'Mancuso' ** , I think that I'm done at my IQ3100. There's nothing that I can print TODAY that runs out of resolution even 44in wide using my 100mp back. Heck, even my 50mp back.

** Guy is famous for saying that he's done and then ... buys into the next generation :thumbs::ROTFL:
How many times have we heard THAT?
The P65+? Oh, now I'm done.
The IQ180? Oh, now I'm really done.
The IQ3100? Oh, I'm really, really done.
You won't buy the new 150MP back for the resolution. It will have other new capabilities that will seduce.
This post is a hoax, but make no mistake, it's coming.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I'm leaning towards this being another April Fools joke. The BSI sensor in the A7R2 raised resolution up ~16% or so. I don't know that a 50% or 100% increase is likely or conducive to sales for Fuji, Hasselblad, Phase One, Pentax, etc. to announce a year out or more from release but I could be wrong.
 

dchew

Well-known member
I'm leaning towards this being another April Fools joke. The BSI sensor in the A7R2 raised resolution up ~16% or so. I don't know that a 50% or 100% increase is likely or conducive to sales for Fuji, Hasselblad, Phase One, Pentax, etc. to announce a year out or more from release but I could be wrong.
Clearly, this is a Phase One conspiracy to stall sales of X1D's and GFX's.
 

f8orbust

Active member
It's not a hoax - it was filmed at CeBit in Hanover in March.

Sony have ‘super high resolution’ listed as one of their key exhibition items under imaging solutions, and you can download the PDF (excerpts of which you see in the video as posters) from Sony's (semiconductor) website here.

Jim
 
It's not a hoax - it was filmed at CeBit in Hanover in March.

Sony have ‘super high resolution’ listed as one of their key exhibition items under imaging solutions, and you can download the PDF (excerpts of which you see in the video as posters) from Sony's (semiconductor) website here.

Jim
Wow how did you find that!

Pursuing flagship performance seems to be expensive...

Phase One P65+ 60MP (Sep 2008 - Sep 2010) $40,000 for 24 months
Leaf Aptus-II 12/R 80MP (Sep 2010 - Jan 2016) $32,000 for 64 months
Phase One IQ180 80MP (Jan 2011 - Jan 2016) $42,490 for 60 months
Phase One IQ3100 100MP (Jan 2016 - Jan 2018) $44,000 for 24 months (with delayed shipment taken into account due to earthquake)

If depreciation (or upgrade cost) is about 50% and 70% of MSRP when a flagship is dethroned and discontinued respectively, I would say that the 80MP Dalsa sensor has been what a bargain!

Still, I can see that girl's handbags may have shorter life-cycles than photographic sensors!
 

ejpeiker

Member
I'm leaning towards this being another April Fools joke. The BSI sensor in the A7R2 raised resolution up ~16% or so. I don't know that a 50% or 100% increase is likely or conducive to sales for Fuji, Hasselblad, Phase One, Pentax, etc. to announce a year out or more from release but I could be wrong.
No, it's from actual video footage at a tradeshow!
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

It doesn't seem to be so.

Fuji has stated several times that the GFX lenses were designed for a 100 MP sensor. It also seems that Sony has a 70+ MP 24x36 sensor in development. Folks say they have seen cameras, but that would not be a reliable source. Clyde Butcher is said to be close to Sony and it said that he said…

Anyway, it seems that next generation Sony 24x36 would be around 70MP. 70MP *1.6 -> 112 MP. So a 100 MP design at 44x33 mm may be a conservative one.

I don't think knowledge about next generation sensors is negative for sales, 2018 is pretty far away and it may be that camera implementations arrive as late a 2019.

How that affects Phase and Hasselblad buyers is an interesting question. My guess is that Phase One is more like focusing on high end.

With Hasselblad and Fuji the situation is different. The X1D and the GFX are quite affordable cameras, priced like Leica M, clearly more expensive than top of the line 24x36 from Nikon and Canon. I don't count the 1DXII and D5 as they are oriented towards high frame rate shooting.

So with the X1D and the GFX lenses will dominate system cost and spending like 8k$ in two years to upgrade to 100 MP is reasonable.

It seems that the sensors have assigned product numbers and that indicates that specs are final.

If you doubt the benefits of 100 MP, check out the images below:
Screen Shot 2017-04-02 at 08.25.23.jpg
These images from the DPReview comparison tool are all scaled to 50 MP, top left image is from the IQ3-100MP. I would argue that it is cleaner than the 50 MP images.

Best regards
Erik

I'm leaning towards this being another April Fools joke. The BSI sensor in the A7R2 raised resolution up ~16% or so. I don't know that a 50% or 100% increase is likely or conducive to sales for Fuji, Hasselblad, Phase One, Pentax, etc. to announce a year out or more from release but I could be wrong.
 

Jan

Member
Seems plausible enough to me. All the effort for a video just for April fools? For a sensor that is bound to come soon anyway?
 

aztwang

Member
Thats great news...Now I'll just sit and wait for someone to dump their "old technology IQ3100" for a song....HAHA
 

jerome_m

Member
Phase One IQ3100 100MP (Jan 2016 - Jan 2018) $44,000 for 24 months
The new sensors will be available in 2018, the cameras which use it may be announced at the earliest at Photokina, maybe even later. They are not likely to be available in numbers before 2019.
 
If you doubt the benefits of 100 MP, check out the images below:

These images from the DPReview comparison tool are all scaled to 50 MP, top left image is from the IQ3-100MP. I would argue that it is cleaner than the 50 MP images.

Best regards
Erik
Well, it is a studio shot under lighting of really fine detail hatching, which is a struggle for any sensor, and the Phase shot has the benefit of being processed in Capture One, so the odds are stacked towards raw resolution as being the primary if not only differentiating factor.
It's still a good indicator of performance if that's your actual use case, but as you stray to more challenging conditions, resolution becomes less important compared to other factors, like dynamic range and the quality of your lenses.
If these increases in detail won't come with a detriment to noise, that'd be great, but I'd honestly rather see resolution stay the same, and have all further improvement go into photo cell quality. I think a 50~60mp 54x40mm BSI sensor would be a more interesting option for most people.
 

Tmuussoni

New member
To me this news was not that surprising, but definitely very exciting news! GFX and X1D are here to stay! BSI sensors are the next step of evolution for Bayer sensors. We are still a long way from organic sensors and front illuminated sensors are close to their max. potential in terms of how far can we take them. Perhaps with these new BSI sensors we also would be one step closer to having global shutters? And will this prompt Phase One to deliver a mirrorless camera in 2018-2019? :cool:
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

I would be a bit cautious regarding sensor developments. Quantum efficiency is reasonably high, so it is a lot of hard work to get further.

I would think that global shutters are a bit into the future, it is not feasible with the technology we have right now.

So it is more like a lot of hard works, with what may be diminishing returns…

Best regards
Erik

To me this news was not that surprising, but definitely very exciting news! GFX and X1D are here to stay! BSI sensors are the next step of evolution for Bayer sensors. We are still a long way from organic sensors and front illuminated sensors are close to their max. potential in terms of how far can we take them. Perhaps with these new BSI sensors we also would be one step closer to having global shutters? And will this prompt Phase One to deliver a mirrorless camera in 2018-2019? :cool:
 

jduncan

Active member
To me this news was not that surprising, but definitely very exciting news! GFX and X1D are here to stay! BSI sensors are the next step of evolution for Bayer sensors. We are still a long way from organic sensors and front illuminated sensors are close to their max. the potential in terms of how far can we take them. Perhaps with these new BSI sensors, we also would be one step closer to having global shutters? And will this prompt Phase One to deliver a mirrorless camera in 2018-2019? :cool:
I hope Hasselblad introduces an H7D with the new sensors, I hope with the Nikon creative lighting system.
But they could build a "full size" mirrorless too.

Best regards,
 
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