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Another "Is medium format worth it " article

J

jduncan

Active member
Re: Another Is medium format worth it " article

ErikKaffehr said:
Hi,

You want a professional review, read this one: https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/2341704755/thinking-about-buying-medium-format-read-this-first

What I would say about the "Sonder Creative" stuff is that:

  • The camera does not work for him. That could be workflow related, camera related or just not reading the fine manuals.
  • He does the mistake to compare sharpness at actual pixels, that ignores the fact that the camera has twice the pixels.
  • It is pretty clear that Canon makes some very good lenses. The Hasselblad lens has pronounced axial chroma, seen as out of focus green fringing.

On some issues he is probably right, some things may be disputable and some are probably wrong. He didn't mention true focus. The 399 focusing points the a7RII has is a real world advantage, for accurate focus.

I would be a bit skeptical about shadow recovery being worse on the 100MP back as it is known to have excellent DR, but DR has two ends, to discuss shadow recovery we need to discuss the highlights part of the exposure.

Best regards
Erik
Click to expand...
I agree with you, I also want to stree that Hasselblad needs to have some new lenses for the H system.
I will love that they replace the current line with Nittoh build ones. It does not make sense to continue with Fuji
now that they are competitors. The X1D lenses are top notch, above, arguibly to the mithy Phase One glass (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD3An09hmjU&ab_channel=KjellPost ).
I hope Ming Thein presuate them of this (maybe, if Hasselblad is coming with a 54x 40mm mirrorless the point wil be moot.

Best regards,
 
J

jdphoto

Well-known member
Jamgolf said:
I think we get this argument twice a month on this forum. It's an insulting argument.

Obviously, everyone is free to draw one's own conclusions. This guy concluded it's not worth it for him. Great !
My decisions are not based on other's opinions. They are based on my own usage and results.
Therefore, I do not care one bit what someone else thinks.

Also, any future prospective buyers should try to form their own opinions and read other's opinions, positive or negative, with many grains of salt.
Click to expand...
What's insulting is the price of MFD. I speak from experience as I've owned most H and a Phase One MFD's. Hasselblad X1D is an exception. I would be interested in that camera when the firmware is where i'd like it to be. Forming opinions from others experience is exactly what I was conveying in my original comment.
 
J

jduncan

Active member
Re: Another Is medium format worth it " article

Erik Lundqvist said:
Summary of article: Instead of this ONE camera you can use these TWO cameras!
Click to expand...
Hi,

3 Apparently, and it the same conclusion that other guy arrived. Also, there is the issue of comparing 100% pictures against each other.

Even so Hasselblad needs to improve. I hope, eventually, Nittoh lenses will be coming to the H6D or that we will have a 54 x 40mm mirrorless camera.

Best regards,
 
kdphotography

kdphotography

Well-known member
jdphoto said:
Is it because you've already invested in MFD?
Click to expand...
I think its more because I've been shooting with MFDBs for well over ten years---and before that medium format film. It is a bit simplistic to simply say I'm "invested" in MFDB---everyone knows that if you're in Dante's forum, you're more than simply invested. :ROTFL: I've never found any of these Medium Format versus DSLR comparisons helpful. I've never wanted nor expected a camera system to do everything, a jack of all trades but master of none, so to speak. A particular format or camera system is simply a different tool to me, whether it is to accomplish a task for a client or to simply give me photographic enjoyment--- the second part of that equation is something I think too many people discount.

The larger picture to me is that I own a Canon DSLR for a reason; a Phase XF for another; the Cambo for another; and a Sony for another reason. For others, the differences are within the format themselves, and you'll see quibbling over the new Fuji or Hasselblad X1D or the Phase, Pentax, or Leica systems. The point here is that personal subjective needs, experiences, and pursuit of photographic enjoyment is what drives the final purchase decision. I know what I want. I know what I need to do for clients. I'm experienced and confident enough to make my own equipment decisions. And I'm fortunate to be able to invest (ha ha, damn you Dante) in photographic enjoyment too.

And that is really why I don't care about someone else's conclusions or comparisons in these types of articles.

:) Ken
 
Don Libby

Don Libby

Well-known member
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

You can make this type of argument/opinion about everything in life. Do I need a Ford F150 Raptor that will take me everywhere I want to go? Could I do with a smaller Jeep? Having both I prefer the Raptor. What about steak vs chicken? Going really insane long pants vs shorts...

I use the camera/tool best suited for the work I want to do. 35mmm for infrared; likewise long exposure for nightscape. Medium format if I'm working in landscape and I want to capture as much information as I can and print on the size of a house at a high point. Currently I'm down to 3-types of tools, err cameras - 35mm Sony for infrared work, 100-megapixel medium format for high end in your face resolution and I just pick up a Fuji GFX for those times I want the best of both words in a lightweight package.

So to me reading yet another "is it worth it" article is meaningless. In my opinion (reread the first sentence) it is and always will be.
 
D

DB5

Member
I don't know where to start. That is the worst review ever. There are far too many people making reviews who are clueless on the internet these days.
 
J

jdphoto

Well-known member
Don Libby said:
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

You can make this type of argument/opinion about everything in life. Do I need a Ford F150 Raptor that will take me everywhere I want to go? Could I do with a smaller Jeep? Having both I prefer the Raptor. What about steak vs chicken? Going really insane long pants vs shorts...

I use the camera/tool best suited for the work I want to do. 35mmm for infrared; likewise long exposure for nightscape. Medium format if I'm working in landscape and I want to capture as much information as I can and print on the size of a house at a high point. Currently I'm down to 3-types of tools, err cameras - 35mm Sony for infrared work, 100-megapixel medium format for high end in your face resolution and I just pick up a Fuji GFX for those times I want the best of both words in a lightweight package.

So to me reading yet another "is it worth it" article is meaningless. In my opinion (reread the first sentence) it is and always will be.
Click to expand...
These articles are meaningful to some, so why not just leave it there? Let those that would like to know about the differences make their own choices.
 
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S

siddhaarta

Member
I found the video entertaining ... worst ever?? OMG, there are far worse out there on Youtube Universe.

IMO, the guy made some good points:

- Hasselblad needs better HC lenses on XCD level (the same holds for P1) in order to compete with the best FF lenses. The current line-up is one generation behind (and the actualizations are coming in very slowly). Same holds for Schneider lenses (putting blue rings or orange dots on 20 year old designs does not make them really better).
- What is a professional camera (one without bugs, with a working reliable autofocus, which does not stand in your way, etc.)
- Casio screens, cheap rubber buttons, falling of OVF on 40.000 cameras ... bad joke indeed
- It's about tonal transitions and colors, not only resolution
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
I suppose the argument regarding MFD verses smaller format high resolution cameras will never cease and will trigger fervent opinions until Dante's Hell freezes over:)


Hasselblad has updated many HC lenses, and one has to be sure which version is used in any comparison. The film era HC150/3.2 was replaced with the 150-N ... in particular, the new HC/50-II is a spectacular performer compared to the lens it replaced.

We also have to keep in mind when comparing the H system to cameras like the Sony A7R-II, that the HC lenses are leaf-shutter and tend to be used with lighting regardless of what may be the norm here on GetDpi ... so when evaluating one thing against another, one can't highlight a feature of one camera, and not give equal balance to a predominate feature of the other.

Theory and practice also tend to get mixed up ... Hasselblad's True Focus function was a stroke of genius IMO, and in practice it worked like a charm despite theories of camera movement lessening its effectiveness ... what it took was a little practice and honing of one's craft to make the most of it ... something that seems to be falling out of vogue with the breakneck rush of technological change.

All in all, it is a nice era to be involved with more demanding photographic work. Not everyone can afford higher end MFD systems and there are more affordable MFD choices than just a short few years ago ... and if that is more than you need, or is still too expensive ... we at least have respectable choices with remarkable cameras like the Sony A7R-II, Sony A99-II, Nikon D8XX, Canon 50 meg ... with more to come to be sure.

Personally, I have no trouble telling my Leica S images from the my Sony A7R-II shots using Batis lenses ... however, I sure the hell can tell the difference between the kits when I have to carry them all day.

- Marc
 
aztwang

aztwang

Member
All I know is I love my Phase One XF/IQ250 and my quiver of lens's set up. The detail is amazing as are colors/skin tone AND I don't have to rely on reviews or comparisons, especially the weighted ones as I have done my due diligence in comparing my 2 systems Phase 1 vs Nikon D810 and there is no comparison thus thats why I still own and my go to system is Phase 1, period the end and no one can tell me any different.
Cheers

Don
 
Ed Hurst

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Because many people seem to present themselves as though they do not have one and it's strangely levelling to dispel that.
 
S

Stuart Richardson

Active member
I am sure he is a very nice guy and had good intentions, but he lost me pretty much out of the gate, given that all his comparisons were done of stuffed animals using the lenses in a way they were not intended to be used and the "test" seemed to consist of part of an afternoon's worth of work. It's a wonderful thing that youtube can bring people from all around the world right into your computer, and there is an absolute wealth of knowledge out there, but when I see a video like this, it makes me lament the absence of editorial standards. I would say that this is not really a test of anything, other than what lens is sharper wide open in close quarters. This alone is going to privilege 35mm since the lenses inherently have more depth of field and are usually sharper for their limited area of coverage.

Anyway, I am sure that reasonable, experienced people who did extensive testing might come to the same conclusions, but this video seems so cursory. It's like going into a museum and saying that the Gursky print is better than the Eggleston print because it is more detailed. There's more to it than that!
 
F

f8orbust

Active member
With the appearance of the Fuji GFX 50 and the H/B X1D (which will both be @ 100MP within the next 18 months or so), I reckon a more appropriate question is, 'is a full frame medium format digital back worth it ?'
 
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