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Thread: Sinar 54M

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    Sinar 54M

    last night, in my sleep, i got a message from Dante......

    "Acquire a Sinar 54M fat pixel back"

    So, doing as I have been told I am interested in picking up a Sinar 54M back.

    Wondering if anyone here has ever used one and what they thought of it in terms of IQ and day to day handling and usage.

    Thanks

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    This is all i have found so far.

    Sinarback 54 - Matrix CZ.pdf

    sinarback_digitalni_kazety_54M_en.pdf

    I realise not that many people here would be that interested in this back these days - but i have a fat pixel addiction that i need to feed.

    I am really fascinated by Sinar backs. They dont seem to be mentioned much and not that much hands on info out there about them.

    Surely there are other fat pixel fanatics on the forums here?

    If anyone has a Sinar back for sale, i'm interested.
    Last edited by young'ee; 7th May 2017 at 04:50.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Willing to bet that the Sinar Action Module is as rare as Hens teeth.

    sinar54mandsam.pdf

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Quote Originally Posted by young'ee View Post
    last night, in my sleep, i got a message from Dante......

    "Acquire a Sinar 54M fat pixel back"

    So, doing as I have been told I am interested in picking up a Sinar 54M back.

    Wondering if anyone here has ever used one and what they thought of it in terms of IQ and day to day handling and usage.

    Thanks
    I once had one on a Hy6. I really enjoyed the IQ (up to ISO 400 max). One of the best backs I have used in regards of skin tones.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Rarely seen in the US. Well regarded among those who have used them (largely in Europe). At one time were featured with Hy6 body as an integrated package.

    Sinar backs featured an adaptable mount (nice), and advertised an optional rotating adapter, so the back could pivot between portrait and landscape. The later Esprit versions (not the 54M) exported tiffs, instead of having to use Sinar's own software, unlike the earlier backs. I believe they are still supported by Sinar in Switzerland.

    Sinar_Hy6_system overall.pdf

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Hey, great input !

    Can anyone who has used a 54M explain its day to day workings and software?

    I mean, i believe this back is tethered only - is it mac only or can one use a windows PC to tether to it? What software package does it use and up to which ver ? I think Sinar had pretty good live view on its tethered backs but not sure on that as it is CCD after all. I know its firewire (i think fw 400?)

    The data sheet i posted a few posts up say its a 22MP Kodak sensor - so fat pixel family.

    Any info on usage and work flow would be very interesting.

    I am still hunting for info so will post it as i find it.

    Still looking for a mint low usage one if there is one out there.

    **Edit** Ok so all the info is in those data sheets - Mac OS/Tether Only/FW 400. So looks like i need a modbook pro to use this in the field in tablet mode.
    Last edited by young'ee; 7th May 2017 at 10:27.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Quote Originally Posted by young'ee View Post
    Hey, great input !

    Can anyone who has used a 54M explain its day to day workings and software?

    I mean, i believe this back is tethered only - is it mac only or can one use a windows PC to tether to it? What software package does it use and up to which ver ? I think Sinar had pretty good live view on its tethered backs but not sure on that as it is CCD after all. I know its firewire (i think fw 400?)

    The data sheet i posted a few posts up say its a 22MP Kodak sensor - so fat pixel family.

    Any info on usage and work flow would be very interesting.

    I am still hunting for info so will post it as i find it.

    Still looking for a mint low usage one if there is one out there.

    **Edit** Ok so all the info is in those data sheets - Mac OS/Tether Only/FW 400. So looks like i need a modbook pro to use this in the field in tablet mode.
    Sinar is now owned by Leica, so they might be able to help. Also, I believe th back was manufactured by Jenoptik, who may have information available

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    I had one with a Mamiya AFDII. The files were real nice. I like the Fat pixel look. You have to use Sinar's Captureshop software and it only shoots tethered. I found the software a little unstable. You will also need the "white Reference" software which is unique to each back. If it doesn't have it you can order it from a Sinar dealer. It's a CCD back and works best at the base ISO like 25 or 50. I can't remember. I never got live view to work. It took something besides just the back which I didn't have. I think you have to use a Mac with Captureshop and you also need a firewire port on the computer. I ended up with a mid 2012 MacBook pro because it has the correct powered firewire port to run the back.

    Hope that helps.

    Greg

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    I recommend you contact David Kay: http://www.capturescanprint.com/cont...html#p7EPMc1_1

    He is THE Sinar guru in Australia. He might be able to help.

    Ben

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Hi Greg,

    Thanks for the input - great info there. I thought Sinar had some special live view setup - at least better then what the other backs of that era had - i am sure i read something in a brochure online somewhere about thier live view being best.

    Ben,

    I remember Kays Photographic from back in the day. (that shows my age). I am not in Australia anymore - but when i need more Sinar info (want to get into a P3) i might do as you say - contact David Kay to figure out whats needed to put together a system

    I've managed to pickup a 54H multishot. Still looking for any other 22MP Sinar backs - only want 9 micron at this point. And i'm getting a collection together - got the 54H 22MP, a db20p Rollei (phase one) version 16MP, a Kodak Pro Plus 16MP and made offers on a 96c and a 528c. It's the new thing as we go into the next decade - collecting old DB's
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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Quote Originally Posted by Chapel View Post

    I ended up with a mid 2012 MacBook pro because it has the correct powered firewire port to run the back.

    Greg
    So a modbook Pro could work then ?

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Got the 96C for my Blad, and I love it

    Quote Originally Posted by young'ee View Post
    Hi Greg,

    Thanks for the input - great info there. I thought Sinar had some special live view setup - at least better then what the other backs of that era had - i am sure i read something in a brochure online somewhere about thier live view being best.

    Ben,

    I remember Kays Photographic from back in the day. (that shows my age). I am not in Australia anymore - but when i need more Sinar info (want to get into a P3) i might do as you say - contact David Kay to figure out whats needed to put together a system

    I've managed to pickup a 54H multishot. Still looking for any other 22MP Sinar backs - only want 9 micron at this point. And i'm getting a collection together - got the 54H 22MP, a db20p Rollei (phase one) version 16MP, a Kodak Pro Plus 16MP and made offers on a 96c and a 528c. It's the new thing as we go into the next decade - collecting old DB's

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    I had to get a mid 2012 MacBook pro. It has the powered FireWire port. It's about 2 years old and I bought new at Best buy.
    Greg

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Hi. I sent you a PM

    Luis

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Thanks Luis.

    Is it OK with you for me to post that info here? Not that i expect there are too many others out there interested in these backs anymore but someone else may stumble across this thread in some decade ahead while they are researching how photos used to get taken at the start of the digital age and be interested in how the 54M worked.


    Steve,

    I know you are reading this thread. Maybe you could post your about to be had experience with the 54H on the GX680?

    Rgds

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    I had P65+, Leaf 75s and still have Sinar 54lv (and a second eMotion22, which is the same back).
    Phase in significantly more convenient to use and way lighter, also better technical specs (pixels and DR). Poor software, I just use it for transforming to dog and then uses Lightroom. Works fine enough.
    But the most pleasant looking pictures come from the Sinar. Best colours.
    Used it with an alpa TC and a contax 645. Now only with Contax. Again only drawback is weight.
    My mistake is to use a sony A7r because of the weight, which btw I use less and less as pictures are boring. My future should be Contax/Sinar when I want the best pictures, and iphone 6+ when I don't want to carry anything ...
    (next future might be Hasselblad X1D, will wait until price drops by 3 ...)
    Can't comment about the 54M which is a very different purpose camera, except that I assume colors are similar so excellent/unique.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    What is the difference between the 54lv and the 54M ? Are they the same back, sensor etc or different?


    Maybe different generations perhaps?

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Quote Originally Posted by young'ee View Post
    What is the difference between the 54lv and the 54M ? Are they the same back, sensor etc or different?

    Maybe different generations perhaps?
    My understanding, but I only know and have the 54LV and emotion22, so might not be exact :
    54M has no internal memory / card, works tethered only
    54LV has the same sensor (I believe), but in autonomous, with a small screen (good enough to watch the framing and the curve, but rather prehistorical quality), batteries, CF card, interchangeable camera mount adapter.
    eMotion22 is the exact same back as the 54lv, branded differently. (I can't tell which is which, IQ wise).
    54H is a multi-shot back, for static studio photography.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Hi Oliver,

    That's good to know.

    In that case there is little reason to go for a 54M over a 54LV.

    I wonder if there is some difference between the 54LV and emotion 22? I see references here and there to the emotion series as working with software that the 54 series does not. Next time i came across references to emotion working /not working on equipment or software i will post it here for completeness.

    These are old backs - all of this info is probably buried in old forum archives - it's nice to bring it back to the surface as a reference point should anyone be wanting to quickly know what is what with the Sinar Series of backs.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    The 54H.

    I have manged to get hold of one of these. Its been sent to a friend to try out on a GX680 before it comes out to me.

    I wonder if the 4 shot mode could be used in landscapes - scenes where there is NO movement? Will be interesting to find out by trial and error. I mean, the Betterlight scanning backs are used for landscapes, so for the right type of landscape a 4 shot exposure should work i would think?

    Hmmm, definitely interesting times ahead in messing about with the 54H.
    Last edited by young'ee; 14th May 2017 at 08:44.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Quote Originally Posted by young'ee View Post
    I wonder if there is some difference between the 54LV and emotion 22?
    Both work with same software, really not a single difference for the user. Maybe one was built after the other, but I could not tell which.
    I bought with the 54lv first and liked it so much that I couldn't resist buying a second one 2 years after, for a second camera. Honestly that was a bit exagerated, but when you love, you don't count ...
    An issue could be to find the right camera adapter .. I have one contax and one mamiya, but only had contax cameras (also alpa adapter for contax) ... So I never used both backs at the same time ...

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Quote Originally Posted by young'ee View Post
    The 54H.

    I have manged to get hold of one of these. Its been sent to a friend to try out on a GX680 before it comes out to me.

    I wonder if the 4 shot mode could be used in landscapes - scenes where there is NO movement? Will be interesting to find out by trial and error. I mean, the Betterlight scanning backs are used for landscapes, so for the right type of landscape a 4 shot exposure should work i would think?

    Hmmm, definitely interesting times ahead in messing about with the 54H.
    Please report how the 54H is working on your friend's GX680. I've been considering one for my own GX680, and since I'm currently reserving a room in the house where I live for object and macro photography, that would be an interesting option for some of that work. Can I ask how much you had to pay for it?

    The last time I considered that back, two of the copies that I considered had a problem with the multishot function. Sinar's attitude towards that kind of problems with old backs like these seemed to be that it's not worth the effort to fix. Something to be aware of.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Hi Jorgen,

    I will be interested to hear myself how it goes as I have a GX680III inbound to me - hope to receive it this week. The 54H was bought last week and has been sent to a friend to check it out before it comes out to me. I hope this 54H is a good one - it came from a well known photographer - so i would think its OK. We'll see.

    I am hoping the 54H is a good match with the GX680.

    I had an email conversation today with a guy who says the 54H also does single shot as well as MS. I was under the impression from my research that the 54M does single shot and the 54H only does MS.

    Given the input above about the 54LV I am struggling to understand the purpose of the 54M. I can only surmise that the 54M came first and the 54LV came some time AFTER the 54M hit the market ?

    I am trying to gleen as much info as I can from real users of the Sinar backs - the branding of the Sinar backs is confusing for the uninitiated.
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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Look at the 2008 price list ... 54lv was 23 000 usd !!!

    [URL="http://www.usvista.com/son/Sinar%202008.pdf"]

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    See here the history
    54M in 2004
    Emotion 22 in 2005 (either branded Sinar or Jenoptik eyelike)
    75lv in 2006
    54lv in 2007
    75h in 2007

    http://www.dimitarmitev.com/images/p...ar%20Mitev.pdf

    I have the Eyelike 22 and the sinar 54lv.
    Live view might be a difference I never experienced (might work tethered ?) must be a difference, looking at the dates ...

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Oliver,

    You mention that an Emotion 22 is the same as a Jenoptik?

    Do you mean the Jenoptik Eyelike M22 is the same as the Sinar Emotion 22 ?

    I just bought an Eyelike M22. Found this info on the net about the M22 - not sure how true it all is, its Internet Intel after all .....

    "Basic specs: 22MP 48mmx36mm sensor, from the most successful generation of medium format sensors ever. Can do single shot, single shot + (hardware moire reduction, a unique feature of this back), 4-shot true color, and 16-shot true color 88MP! Firewire interface. Adapters were available and are easily swappable for Contax, Mamiya and Hasselblad. (others?)

    Comparison to Sinarback 54H: This is essentially the same back as the Sinar: same sensor, same multishot technology. Basically, Sinar licensed their tech from Jenoptik. However, this partnership lead, soon after the release of this back, to Jenoptik buying Sinar outright, and continuing only the Sinar-branded digital backs. That's why the Sinback 54H went on to legendary status and is still widely in use today, whereas the Eyelike M22 is far less well known, even though it is even more advanced. It can do everything the Sinarback can, plus 1 shot hardware anti-moire, plus directly control Rollei and Schneider electronic shutters! It is also more robust, with a metal body instead of plastic. However, the two backs use essentially different software. (With some file processing overlap in a number of pieces of software produced by Sinar.) The Eyelike backs are still supported and serviced by Sinar (which Jenoptik eventually sold to Leica)."


    THIS JUMPS OUT AT ME ...plus directly control Rollei and Schneider electronic shutters!

    Thats interesting as i have a 6008AF and a HY6 is on the shopping list. My wallet is groaning now as i add those Schneider Rollei lenses to the shopping list to support those bodies (got the 80mm AF with the 6008AF)

    But what does it mean that the M22 back can directly control Rollei and Schneider electronic shutters?

    So will a Sinar Emotion 22 be exactly the same as the Eyelike M22? Software used is the same? Any internal fw differences etc or EXACTLY the same?

    I suppose picking up a Sinar Emotion 22 would answer my questions.

    Another snippet from this forum (amazing treasure trove of info here if you dig deep enough)

    "(Sinar is the only one that supports the 200 series with FE optics)"

    Does this apply to ALL Sinar backs re the 203FE and FE Optics? I have a 203FE with a complement of FE optics and the 203FE body was modified to accept digital backs ( I am of the understanding that this mod allowed the use of CFV backs only)

    So will the Eyelike M22 work with the 203FE (Eyelike being an Emotion 22 in different skin)?

    Will the 54H work on the 203FE ?

    So many Sinar questions......... and not enough info out there on these backs and thier peculiarities

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Mine is "Eyelike eMotion 22" ... not M22 ... again a new model or just branding ... looks like marketing for washing machines ...

    eMotion 22, maybe Live View apart, really similar to the Sinar 54lv.
    And to illustrate ... when I bought the 22, I installed the contax adapter and didn't see any difference, neither in usage nor IQ, so never mounted the Sinar again ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Oliver,

    Beautiful, just beautiful.

    This is what its all about.

  31. #31
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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Thanks, I thought some pictures would give some hope
    First is with Contax/80mm and 2 other ones with Alpa TC and Rod.35 AAA.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Not same conditions, but illustrates the kind of difference between sony A7R nice digital files and the great 3D and textured look of Contax/Sinar ...

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Great to see that there a few sinar people around.
    I did have the Emotion 54LV for a while and have the Emotion 75LV at the moment. Love the colours the Dalsa Sensor delivers in combination with Hasselblad H glass

    I would also love to bring my Contax 645 into play, but I am still seeking for the adapter.

    Hence if anyone has a spare adapter for the Contax 645 Emotion series, I would love to buy it or swap for a Mamiya 645 AF or 67RZ one, which I happen to have.
    The adapter from the Eyelike Precision M22 would also work.

    Thanks a lot,

    Oliver

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Hi Oliver,

    Would you be able to post the Sinar number on the RZ adaptor you have - I just bought a Sinar RZ adaptor - but dont know for which Sinar back the adaptor is meant - the number on the adaptor i bought is 551.43.241.

    I hope to be able to mount my 54H or Eyelike M22 to my RZ Pro IID. If it turns out the adaptor i bought is for another Sinar back.....well i guess it's an excuse to buy that Sinar back so that adaptor is not wasted :-)

    If you PM me your email address and tell me EXACTLY which adaptor you need i will give you a shout if i come across one. I spend at least 3 or 4 hours a day scanning for sale ads on Sinar gear looking for the parts i need. So its quite likely i will eventually come across the one you need. I dont have a contax and have no plans to get one, so happy to give you the heads up if i see one.

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Hi there,

    the number of the RZ adapter for the Emotion Series is 552.36.271 It should fit your Precision M22, as well.

    There are three models of the Contax 645 adapter for the emotion series with numbers 552.36.077 / 552.36.177 / 552.36.277


    Best,

    Oliver





    Hi Oliver,

    Would you be able to post the Sinar number on the RZ adaptor you have - I just bought a Sinar RZ adaptor - but dont know for which Sinar back the adaptor is meant - the number on the adaptor i bought is 551.43.241.

    I hope to be able to mount my 54H or Eyelike M22 to my RZ Pro IID. If it turns out the adaptor i bought is for another Sinar back.....well i guess it's an excuse to buy that Sinar back so that adaptor is not wasted :-)

    If you PM me your email address and tell me EXACTLY which adaptor you need i will give you a shout if i come across one. I spend at least 3 or 4 hours a day scanning for sale ads on Sinar gear looking for the parts i need. So its quite likely i will eventually come across the one you need. I dont have a contax and have no plans to get one, so happy to give you the heads up if i see one.[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Sinar 54M

    Interesting thread and nice pics...I have the mamiya adaptor for 54lv and 75lv emo backs, which I will gladly swap for one for the Hasselblad V or consider buying one. I think it is for mam 645..I will check and if I can see the code no. I'll post it...ps, the highway background is very nice Oliver

    Martin

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