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Thread: X1D: Where are we at?

  1. #201
    Senior Member dave.gt's Avatar
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    ... Uh-oh!!!!....
    Best regards,
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    I know. It’s a VERY bad idea.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    I was surprised to see dji demonstrating their new stabilizer with an X1D.
    Perhaps that means X2D will have specs that will appeal to filmmakers?
    I think it only restates that DJI owns Hasselblad.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewi...finest-camera/

    Expect product announcements throughout 2018, with expansions of the H6D and X1D product lines, perhaps including cameras at price points below X1D to broaden the market. By year’s end there will be twice as many lenses available for X1D.
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewi...finest-camera/

    Expect product announcements throughout 2018, with expansions of the H6D and X1D product lines, perhaps including cameras at price points below X1D to broaden the market. By year’s end there will be twice as many lenses available for X1D.
    I knew from the start I would be acquiring either the Hasselblad mirrorless or the Fuji, but I did not know which. I have shot Hasselblad since a teenage photographer and still do (I will be 60 this year ), but I also enjoy my Fuji mirrorless cameras and lenses. My CFV50c back coupled with my ALPA gear works very well for what I shoot. I have made up my mind and it will be the Hassy, but waiting for the next generation. Thank you for posting this article as it helped me decide.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    A Photo A Day Project: darrlene.com
    My Other Website: photoscapes.com
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    I knew from the start I would be acquiring either the Hasselblad mirrorless or the Fuji, but I did not know which. I have shot Hasselblad since a teenage photographer and still do (I will be 60 this year ), but I also enjoy my Fuji mirrorless cameras and lenses. My CFV50c back coupled with my ALPA gear works very well for what I shoot. I have made up my mind and it will be the Hassy, but waiting for the next generation. Thank you for posting this article as it helped me decide.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    Glad the info was of help to you.
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    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewi...finest-camera/

    Expect product announcements throughout 2018, with expansions of the H6D and X1D product lines, perhaps including cameras at price points below X1D to broaden the market. By year’s end there will be twice as many lenses available for X1D.
    Thanks for posting this.

    Intrigued that a new CFV-like back is a future option.....glad I kept my 503 body...... and who knows...perhaps a X1D derivative may rekindle our Xpan experience.

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  8. #208
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi there. My interest to get a X1D besides my S has increased as I would like to have the MF-IQ in a smaller (easier to carry for hiking and travel) and les osbtrusive (for kids, friends etc. (who wants to come with a Leica S+ lenses to the school-party of the kids) set.
    Now I wonder how people react to the x1d? Do they say: "Wow, Hasselblad, must be expensive?"
    And do you believe the black version draws less attention than the silver one? (In the end I am not really prefering one over the other, but I dont justify to pay 1000 Dollar extra for a black surface)
    Thanks for any feedback. How do people react to the x1d?
    Best, Thomas

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Hi there. My interest to get a X1D besides my S has increased as I would like to have the MF-IQ in a smaller (easier to carry for hiking and travel) and les osbtrusive (for kids, friends etc. (who wants to come with a Leica S+ lenses to the school-party of the kids) set.
    Now I wonder how people react to the x1d? Do they say: "Wow, Hasselblad, must be expensive?"
    And do you believe the black version draws less attention than the silver one? (In the end I am not really prefering one over the other, but I dont justify to pay 1000 Dollar extra for a black surface)
    Thanks for any feedback. How do people react to the x1d?
    Best, Thomas
    In my experience, size of the setup tends to the biggest factor that gets people’s attention. The only people I’ve really had react to the X1D are the ones that know that it’s an X1D. I’ve only had a handful of ppl really come up to me and ask me about it so far. The H4D-40/35-90mm I used to use got far more attention, followed by a Nikon 70-200/body/battery grip setup. The X1D so far is pretty unobtrusive and is one of the things I like about it. I imagine black would be less noticeable than silver, but I’d just go silver.
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    It really seems the X2D is going to being set up as a useful motion tool.

    From Ming Thein's site:

    "...More interestingly, several new lenses were announced today that will round out the X platform in and of itself – a 120/3.5 1:2 macro; a 35-75mm zoom; and 22mm and 65mm primes. I was involved in some of the planning around these lenses and the aim was to balance quality with size and other properties such as PARFOCAL ZOOMING and magnification ratio; such optical design considerations are a delicate balance between size, performance, price and design complexity..."

    Also I read that the sensor will output 4K 30p AND 8K 12p. 6fps stills and potentially 12fps in a crop mode.

    All I know is I want one and it's going to be a long wait till it comes.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    In my experience, size of the setup tends to the biggest factor that gets people’s attention.
    It's a quasi-MF body that I can literally slip into my jacket pocket. That's simply amazing (speaking as someone who lugged a case full of V-series hardware around for years).
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi Darr,

    It is an interesting article.

    I must say that I am very happy for both the X1D and the DJI investment. I would also say it was a great move from Hasselblad to engage Ming Tein as director for strategy.

    Rumors were not very positive about Hasselblad's financial state before the DJI investment and a second DJI investment was necessary so that Hasselblad could enlarge production facilities.

    I can just mention a funny thing. There is a site on Facebook called "objektivtest.se". Story behind is that a Swedish periodical called "Foto" used to do their testing at Hasselblad, in cooperation with Per Nordlund who is in charge of lens design at Hasselblad.

    They had a question about MFD users, and I asked if my old 555/ELD and P45+ still counts? Per Nordlund answered like: "Yes, it definitively counts. You are lucky to have a very fine camera that will last for ever!" Such things are heart warming.

    My blad has seen very little use since I have the Sony A7rII, partly because I was doing most of my travel by air and moving one kit is easier than moving two. But I still enjoy shooting with the old "Blad". I guess I will keep it.

    This year I will do most of my travel with a camper and I am pretty sure I will have the "Blad" making the Sony company.

    My Sony gear is heavier than my Hasselblad gear, although my Hasselblad gear includes 5 lenses and an extender. The Sony may be small, but the Canon lenses I mostly use it with are quite large. Also, the Sony stuff covers much more ground, from 10 mm fisheye to 400 mm and including tilt and shift options.

    I would think that Hasselblad will make some backs for the V-system in the future. There where something like half a million V-system cameras made. But Hasselblad probably focuses on the X1D and the H-system.

    I have noticed that the H6D50c is now reasonably priced, same cost as an X1D plus an H5X. I guess that manufacturing cost for the X1D and the 50MP cmos back is quite similar.

    Nice to see Hasselblad being back in action!

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    I knew from the start I would be acquiring either the Hasselblad mirrorless or the Fuji, but I did not know which. I have shot Hasselblad since a teenage photographer and still do (I will be 60 this year ), but I also enjoy my Fuji mirrorless cameras and lenses. My CFV50c back coupled with my ALPA gear works very well for what I shoot. I have made up my mind and it will be the Hassy, but waiting for the next generation. Thank you for posting this article as it helped me decide.

    Kind regards,
    Darr

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    For me the most interesting sentence in the Forbes article was this one:

    "Expect product announcements throughout 2018, with expansions of the H6D and X1D product lines, perhaps including cameras at price points below X1D to broaden the market."

    What may these cameras at lower price points be, I assume still MF?

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by siddhaarta View Post
    For me the most interesting sentence in the Forbes article was this one:

    "Expect product announcements throughout 2018, with expansions of the H6D and X1D product lines, perhaps including cameras at price points below X1D to broaden the market."

    What may these cameras at lower price points be, I assume still MF?
    I was skeptical of that sentence. Without citing any support for the statement, it just seemed like conjecture on the part of the author (although they did just expand the H6D line with the H6D-400 MS).

    I'd be surprised if they introduced a new camera at a lower-than-X1D price point. It seems like they've got their hands full with the X and H lines as is....in Sweden at least. There are rumors of a smaller GFX-50s (GFX-50R maybe?), so maybe they'd be trying to compete with whatever that might be. Maybe we'd see something DJI-produced with the Hasselblad name? Who knows.

    Many exciting things to come in the MF world.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi,

    I would expect that Hasselblad may copy Sony a bit, so when they release a new camera the old version may be kept at a lower price point.

    Very obviously, we will se a 100 MP X2D or X1Ds in a couple years. Or would we see an X2D with phase detecting AF.

    It is a bit interesting to compare with Sony A7 history, after all Sony is making the sensors, so their priorities matter a lot. Add to that developing a new sensor is said to take three years and the making of a single sensor takes 3-4 months. Sensor making is not a very fast moving business.

    Sony A7 and A7r were introduced at the same time. A7 had rudimentary phase detection and electronic first curtain. The A7r did not. My understanding that the Sony just slammed in the Nikon D800 sensor in the A7r.

    It took Sony two (long) years to release the A7rII that had working phase detection, EFCS and a new 42MP BSI sensor. The A7II and and the A7SII had usability updates but no new sensor. All the older models were kept in production.

    2017, Sony released the A9, which has a new sensor enabling fast electronic shutter and very fast readout, assisted by a front side LSI originating from the Alpha 6500 plus significant usability enhancements. Sony also released the A7rIII with the A9 body, front side LSI and usability enhancement. The old models still available.

    The Sony strategy makes business sense.

    I think Hasselblad returned to their origin of making great camera systems at a reasonable cost and they have a great competitor in Fuji.



    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by siddhaarta View Post
    For me the most interesting sentence in the Forbes article was this one:

    "Expect product announcements throughout 2018, with expansions of the H6D and X1D product lines, perhaps including cameras at price points below X1D to broaden the market."

    What may these cameras at lower price points be, I assume still MF?

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Darr,

    My blad has seen very little use since I have the Sony A7rII, partly because I was doing most of my travel by air and moving one kit is easier than moving two. But I still enjoy shooting with the old "Blad". I guess I will keep it.

    This year I will do most of my travel with a camper and I am pretty sure I will have the "Blad" making the Sony company.

    My Sony gear is heavier than my Hasselblad gear, although my Hasselblad gear includes 5 lenses and an extender. The Sony may be small, but the Canon lenses I mostly use it with are quite large. Also, the Sony stuff covers much more ground, from 10 mm fisheye to 400 mm and including tilt and shift options.

    I would think that Hasselblad will make some backs for the V-system in the future. There where something like half a million V-system cameras made. But Hasselblad probably focuses on the X1D and the H-system.

    I have noticed that the H6D50c is now reasonably priced, same cost as an X1D plus an H5X. I guess that manufacturing cost for the X1D and the 50MP cmos back is quite similar.

    Nice to see Hasselblad being back in action!

    Best regards
    Erik
    My V-series travel kit consisted of a 503CW, PME-5, winder, 3 A-12 magazines, 40/50/80/120/250, a couple of extension tubes, and a Mutar. Sometimes the 500 ApoTessar if I was feeling really crazy. And a brick of film, of course. Traveling by air with that is a bit of an adventure (the security people in Frankfurt were pretty suspicious of the ApoTessar). I can't imagine traveling with a heavier kit than that - and airport security must have been quite an experience with some of those large Canon telephotos.

    If Hasselblad makes a 645 V-series back (say, a CFV150 with the next-gen Sony sensor), I'll be quite tempted to buy it. Of course, then I'd really need to get a 90-degree finder to replace the PME-5.

    I just got the X1D body. I have no XCD lenses yet, so I'm using it with the Fotodiox adapter and my V-series lenses. This obviously has some limitations, and I look forward to using it with native lenses soon. The CF lenses hold up surprisingly well (particularly since I can't figure out how to get Phocus to let me get to the V-series lens corrections on an X1D raw file). With focus-peaking and the zoom feature, doing manual focus under normal circumstances with X1D is much easier than I expected - although focusing in the extreme macro range (say, at about 12x with a bellows, some tubes, and a Zeiss Luminar) is quite difficult. The inability to use flash with the e-shutter makes that pretty impractical anyway, but I did want to see if it was possible to focus at all that way. If the forthcoming Hasselblad V-series adapter actually lets you get to the lens shutter (I have the microscope shutter), I might try it for real - but focusing with the clear screen (as opposed to ground glass of the Acute Matte) on the 503 is much easier with high magnifications.
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    I'm not holding my breath for a full-frame V system sensor. But based on my experience with the V-mount IQ160, which at "only" 60 Mp is totally unforgiving, one would be best off focusing via live view. I found that focusing via the optical viewfinder is best done with the late-generation waist level finder (4.5x mag). The prisms are darker and require a view magnifier to get up to a reasonable magnification for my tired old eyes at least. Even if HB came out with full-frame high-resolution backs, as much as I love using my old 500 series bodies I'm not sure I'd bite.

    I have been quite pleased with how my old 100, 120 Makro-Planar, and 250 Superachromat lenses render on the X1D (also using the Fotodiox adapter). I have yet to try my 350 Tele-Tessar but alas it's not a particularly sharp or well-corrected optic to begin with. I recently picked up a 4x loupe, which I find takes most if not all of the guesswork out of focusing in live view @ 100%.

    John
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  18. #218
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi,

    The way I focus on the 555/ELD is using a 3X Zeiss monocular that gives 9X with the PM5, but only 6X with the PM90 I use now.

    Yes, I think that critical focusing in the viewfinder is hard. I don't have a CMOS back. With my Sonys I would mosly use magnified live view, that is focus at actual pixels. I hope the CMOS backs have that option.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by sog1927 View Post
    My V-series travel kit consisted of a 503CW, PME-5, winder, 3 A-12 magazines, 40/50/80/120/250, a couple of extension tubes, and a Mutar. Sometimes the 500 ApoTessar if I was feeling really crazy. And a brick of film, of course. Traveling by air with that is a bit of an adventure (the security people in Frankfurt were pretty suspicious of the ApoTessar). I can't imagine traveling with a heavier kit than that - and airport security must have been quite an experience with some of those large Canon telephotos.

    If Hasselblad makes a 645 V-series back (say, a CFV150 with the next-gen Sony sensor), I'll be quite tempted to buy it. Of course, then I'd really need to get a 90-degree finder to replace the PME-5.

    I just got the X1D body. I have no XCD lenses yet, so I'm using it with the Fotodiox adapter and my V-series lenses. This obviously has some limitations, and I look forward to using it with native lenses soon. The CF lenses hold up surprisingly well (particularly since I can't figure out how to get Phocus to let me get to the V-series lens corrections on an X1D raw file). With focus-peaking and the zoom feature, doing manual focus under normal circumstances with X1D is much easier than I expected - although focusing in the extreme macro range (say, at about 12x with a bellows, some tubes, and a Zeiss Luminar) is quite difficult. The inability to use flash with the e-shutter makes that pretty impractical anyway, but I did want to see if it was possible to focus at all that way. If the forthcoming Hasselblad V-series adapter actually lets you get to the lens shutter (I have the microscope shutter), I might try it for real - but focusing with the clear screen (as opposed to ground glass of the Acute Matte) on the 503 is much easier with high magnifications.

  19. #219
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    I have a demo-x1d for the weekend, and what should I say, I am pretty impressed by certain things:
    - Color, even in LR it seems very "reliable" on my first look
    - handling - with the 45mm very compfortable size (if I compare to my S+45mm)
    - AF seems to work fine
    - EVF - better than I expected

    The most disturbing thing I find black out time, sometimes one doesnt know if I get the right moment or not, but I think I could live with it.
    Vignetting is heavy without lens correction, but I guess thats one of the prices for the compact size.
    Considering the compact size, if my first impressions continue I am really tempted to get in and maybe to even replace my whole S equipment.

    This is really MF IQ in fullframe-size.

    Has anybody tested any xpan lens on the x1d?

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    This just in:



    Joe
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    Joe Colson Photography
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Dear all,

    First let me say hello. Have been reading this forum for quite a while and now have decided to join.

    Coming from the Fuji GFX I have now decided to return it, because Fuji was not able to provide me a unit with a clean sensor, and ordered the Hasselblad X1D field kit in black.

    Cannot believe how far this camera has developed since the last time I tried it. Firmware is really advanced now and includes all functions I need for the time being. Am really impressed.

    While waiting on my camera to arrive, could take until end of February, let me quickly ask you professionals a question.

    Having a Godox AD600 System at home with TTL which works splendid I was asking myself the question what trigger I need to buy. As far as I understand that would be the Nikon one and as the profoto Air TTL should work with the same functionality. Did somebody try this out already?

    Also coming from HSS which was necessary with the Fuji I assume I can skip this function and use the flash perfectly up to a t0.1 of 1/2000 sec power setting within regular mode. If I would need to go higher with the power I have no clue if HSS still could be a benefit (at least if I make the flash fire in HSS mode).

    Thank you for shedding some light on this. Looking forward contributing my experiences with the new system.


    Kind regards

    Ole

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I have a demo-x1d for the weekend, and what should I say, I am pretty impressed by certain things:

    The most disturbing thing I find black out time, sometimes one doesnt know if I get the right moment or not, but I think I could live with it.
    Are you shooting RAW+JPG? I believe if you shoot RAW only the blackout time is much shorter... not sure if they ever fixed this, I haven't had time to shoot with the camera after the latest firmware update.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?


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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Considering that Ming now works for Hasselblad, that “review” is quite candid and balanced. Not the usual blather from those that work with or for a camera manufacturer. Reading between the lines, there are hints about a number of the “issues” in the current iteration of the X1D being fixed in future models.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    It's an intelligent review in the sense that it is honest and considered. I could be wrong but I think it is more showmanship than transparency though. I don't think for one second he's going to lose his job over it, like he says he will risk. This was released now because it has been cleared by the company. Sales, orders and interest have exceeded what they had planned and hoped for but with all these rumours of newer models about I'm sure sales have slowed and and from this point is is helpful to run a further narrative about developing and growing as a company.

    But it's refreshing to read an honest review about a companies own product. Hasselblad are doing great.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Agreed. Very thoughtful and honest review. And enlightening about these new MFD cameras, which are in-between older notions as they break new ground. Particularly fond of his "who is the camera for?" part of the review.

  27. #227
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Particularly fond of his "who is the camera for?" part of the review.
    Ditto

    Decent review. Wish HB every success.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Besides the review I would like to mention that I had excellent help from Hasselblad to solve a problem which occured when buying my x1d. Ultrafast response.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post

    Hi,

    I am a little concerned about this comment :

    "I’ll be the first to admit that for most people and purposes, it makes the other options in our lineup difficult to justify – unless you absolutely need the optical finder, or AF on a lens that exists only in the H system. Even CF lenses can be adapted with the CF-H and H-X adaptors, and used with the electronic shutter at much wider speed ranges than the original 1/500s mechanical shutters."

    This is the second time I see a similar reference, the last time was the CEO talking about the market deciding the future of the H.

    I hope that the promised updates to the H does not consist on the H6D-400MS and an H6D-150c only. I want an H7.

    Besides that speculative bit, a very well written article that show the amount of work done by Hasselblad on the improvement of the X1D.
    If Hasselblad listen to his points the X2D will be a fantastic beast. Maybe a little fatter if the til/shift screen is added. Finaly I agree with the bit about the H6D viewfinder: It's almost a magical experience the first time, and a litteral eye oppener. For people that is very deliberate vs a DSLR viewfinder is mayor adventage.


    Best regards,

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by jduncan View Post
    Hi,

    Finaly I agree with the bit about the H6D viewfinder: It's almost a magical experience the first time, and a litteral eye oppener. For people that is very deliberate vs a DSLR viewfinder is mayor adventage.


    Best regards,
    As much as I enjoy shooting with the X1D, I agree with you that the visual experience of looking through that OVF in the H series cameras is still extraordinary compared to looking through an EVF. I plan to sell my H bodies and IQ 180 and I promised myself not to look through the viewfinder again before I pull the trigger.
    hcubell
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    As much as I enjoy shooting with the X1D, I agree with you that the visual experience of looking through that OVF in the H series cameras is still extraordinary compared to looking through an EVF. I plan to sell my H bodies and IQ 180 and I promised myself not to look through the viewfinder again before I pull the trigger.
    The H viewfinder is extraordinary for sure. Every time anyone looked through my H4D-40 for the first time the reaction was always "woah". The EVF has its merits too though. Image review with magnification in bright sunlight, for example, allows me to review the image in a way I never could with the H. I'm sure the EVF in the X will improve over time too....
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by jduncan View Post
    Hi,

    I am a little concerned about this comment :

    "I’ll be the first to admit that for most people and purposes, it makes the other options in our lineup difficult to justify – unless you absolutely need the optical finder, or AF on a lens that exists only in the H system. Even CF lenses can be adapted with the CF-H and H-X adaptors, and used with the electronic shutter at much wider speed ranges than the original 1/500s mechanical shutters."

    This is the second time I see a similar reference, the last time was the CEO talking about the market deciding the future of the H.

    I hope that the promised updates to the H does not consist on the H6D-400MS and an H6D-150c only. I want an H7.

    Besides that speculative bit, a very well written article that show the amount of work done by Hasselblad on the improvement of the X1D.
    If Hasselblad listen to his points the X2D will be a fantastic beast. Maybe a little fatter if the til/shift screen is added. Finaly I agree with the bit about the H6D viewfinder: It's almost a magical experience the first time, and a litteral eye oppener. For people that is very deliberate vs a DSLR viewfinder is mayor adventage.


    Best regards,
    Nah, I think it's just a sale tactic. It's like a refined version of the street market vendor shouting out "My prices are so low I'm practically giving it away! I must be mad!"

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    "This is how the world’s most covetable cameras get made
    Have you ever wondered what goes into that ‘Handmade in Sweden’ inscription?"
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/6/16...a-factory-tour

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by OleBe View Post
    Dear all,

    Having a Godox AD600 System at home with TTL which works splendid I was asking myself the question what trigger I need to buy. As far as I understand that would be the Nikon one and as the profoto Air TTL should work with the same functionality. Did somebody try this out already?

    Also coming from HSS which was necessary with the Fuji I assume I can skip this function and use the flash perfectly up to a t0.1 of 1/2000 sec power setting within regular mode. If I would need to go higher with the power I have no clue if HSS still could be a benefit (at least if I make the flash fire in HSS mode).


    Kind regards

    Ole
    Sadly, the flash duration of the AD600 at the highest power is 1/220th of a second which doesn't go very well with a shutter speed of 1/2000th of a second.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lundqvist View Post
    Sadly, the flash duration of the AD600 at the highest power is 1/220th of a second which doesn't go very well with a shutter speed of 1/2000th of a second.
    Eric, are you sure? There are several photographers who post at the DP Review MF Forum who absolutely INSIST that the Godox HSS system works perfectly in all situations and has rendered leaf shutter lenses obsolete. However, these guys always insist that everything related to the Fuji GFX is just perfect and don't do well with dissenting opinions, so I have no idea if they are right.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi,

    I don't have the AD 600, but I have an DA 200 and it does have t0.1 around 1/220. It does loose power at 1/500s on a Hasselblad 555/ELD. If I switch to 1/4 power, it will have zero loss of power trough 1/500 LS:

    https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60622964

    The AD 200 works extremely well with my Sony A7rII, both regarding HSS and TTL. But physics still apply to, something that the guy posting on DPR fails to acknowledge.

    Best regards
    Erik




    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Eric, are you sure? There are several photographers who post at the DP Review MF Forum who absolutely INSIST that the Godox HSS system works perfectly in all situations and has rendered leaf shutter lenses obsolete. However, these guys always insist that everything related to the Fuji GFX is just perfect and don't do well with dissenting opinions, so I have no idea if they are right.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Dear all,

    thank you - my question was more or less going into the direct if the trigger will work. Meanwhile Hasselblad rep told my dealer that this should work fine including TTL. My camera has not arrived (due to in about 1-2 weeks) so I cannot test for the time being. The X-Pro N (Nikon version) is ordered though so I can once my camera has arrived.

    Do I correctly assume that with the AD600 and t0.1 which is faster then 1/2000 second (approx. 1/8 + 0,3 power) it should work splendid?

    More power will result into slower t0.1 and might not have a significantely increased power output as result.

    However remembering from my Fuji cameras power of the AD600 in HSS mode will drop significantly only as from 1/4000 sec exposure time.
    So it could be possible if the X1D would be able to trigger the HSS mode, which currently it is not, the flash should have a better output value vs. shutter speed on higher power levels.

    Let us see - will share my findings as soon as I can.
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    When the X1D was announced, as with many people - I loved what it stood for - high IQ in an aesthetic portable package.
    But at the time I ended up buying a Leica SL as I needed something a bit more practical.

    I am considering selling Q + SL, getting something with better AF for photography work.
    Keeping M10 for travel

    Then getting something else for portraits, this could be an opportunity to explore digital medium format - though X1D+Lens is probably the max budget, and I don't know much about the larger varieties.

    I saw mentioned of X2D 100MP a page back, is that likely?
    I'm in no rush professionally, but I am impulsive and impatient
    Last edited by dancook; 14th February 2018 at 01:45.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by dancook View Post
    When the X1D was announced, as with many people - I loved what it stood for - high IQ in an aesthetic portable package.
    But at the time I ended up buying a Leica SL as I needed something a bit more practical.

    I am considering selling Q + SL, getting something with better AF for photography work.
    Keeping M10 for travel

    Then getting something else for portraits, this could be an opportunity to explore digital medium format - though X1D+Lens is probably the max budget, and I don't know much about the larger varieties.

    I saw mentioned of X2D 100MP a page back, is that likely?
    I'm in no rush professionally, but I am impulsive and impatient
    What you plan to replace the SL with. I find the SL AF pretty good?

    In my case I added the x1d recently, to me it feels like a digital Mamyi6, or a slow down Leica M in large size and with AF.
    For faster things, Tele I keep the SL.
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi,

    I would say that 100 MP in 44x33 mm is extremely likely. Why? Because of this:

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/117195...-chip-for-2018

    You see a sensor called IMX461, Type 3.6 at 100 MP and back side illuminated. Sony published this roadmap on the latest Photokina.

    So, it says a sensor called 'IMX461', coming this year. But arrival may lag.

    Sony would not make that sensor if there were no customers. If we look at the normal suspects:

    • Fuji states that the lens program is targeted at 100MP. It seems very probable that once the sensor arrives, Fuji will use it.
    • Hasselblad will certainly also use it. They don't want to play second fiddle to Fuji.
    • Pentax probably also would use it.
    • Phase One would probably also use it.


    In all probability the IMX461 will bring a major step in image quality. The present 50MP sensor is quite old, so the new sensor will have 4-5 more years of development behind it. Reducing the pixel size improves sharpness, not necessary when viewed at 1:1 (actual pixels) on screen, but in any other context. It will also reduce aliasing quite a bit.

    So, I would say it is a 100% bet regarding if, but the big question is when?!

    Here is some more info: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/produ...ion/index.html

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by dancook View Post

    I saw mentioned of X2D 100MP a page back, is that likely?
    I'm in no rush professionally, but I am impulsive and impatient

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by dancook View Post
    When the X1D was announced, as with many people - I loved what it stood for - high IQ in an aesthetic portable package.
    But at the time I ended up buying a Leica SL as I needed something a bit more practical.

    I am considering selling Q + SL, getting something with better AF for photography work.
    Keeping M10 for travel

    Then getting something else for portraits, this could be an opportunity to explore digital medium format - though X1D+Lens is probably the max budget, and I don't know much about the larger varieties.

    I saw mentioned of X2D 100MP a page back, is that likely?
    I'm in no rush professionally, but I am impulsive and impatient
    Both the Q and the SL have excellent AF capabilities . Only limitation I have found is focus tracking on a fast moving subject (car races etc ).

    Highly unlikely that the X1d has better AF capabilities ??? The advantage of the X1D is better overall image quality due to having a terrific 50MP sensor and excellent HB color tuning .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    .....
    In all probability the IMX461 will bring a major step in image quality. The present 50MP sensor is quite old, so the new sensor will have 4-5 more years of development behind it. Reducing the pixel size improves sharpness, not necessary when viewed at 1:1 (actual pixels) on screen, but in any other context. It will also reduce aliasing quite a bit.

    So, I would say it is a 100% bet regarding if, but the big question is when?!

    Here is some more info: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/produ...ion/index.html

    Best regards
    Erik
    I also believe that we will see such sensor in 2018 in cameras. x2d?
    What I doubt is that it will be a major step up in IQ for most users.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    I would say that 100 MP in 44x33 mm is extremely likely. Why? Because of this:

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/117195...-chip-for-2018

    You see a sensor called IMX461, Type 3.6 at 100 MP and back side illuminated. Sony published this roadmap on the latest Photokina.

    So, it says a sensor called 'IMX461', coming this year. But arrival may lag.

    Sony would not make that sensor if there were no customers. If we look at the normal suspects:

    • Fuji states that the lens program is targeted at 100MP. It seems very probable that once the sensor arrives, Fuji will use it.
    • Hasselblad will certainly also use it. They don't want to play second fiddle to Fuji.
    • Pentax probably also would use it.
    • Phase One would probably also use it.


    In all probability the IMX461 will bring a major step in image quality. The present 50MP sensor is quite old, so the new sensor will have 4-5 more years of development behind it. Reducing the pixel size improves sharpness, not necessary when viewed at 1:1 (actual pixels) on screen, but in any other context. It will also reduce aliasing quite a bit.

    So, I would say it is a 100% bet regarding if, but the big question is when?!

    Here is some more info: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/produ...ion/index.html

    Best regards
    Erik


    I wrote an email to an Hasselblad insider, asking if it was worth to get a second body as a back up for my extensive traveling later the year or wait for the X1D successor....
    this is what he wrote: :Since the X1D is now no longer new, and you already have one to work with now...I would suggest a little patience "

    my hope is that then X2D will be at Photokina!

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by etto72 View Post
    I wrote an email to a Hasselblad insider, asking if it was worth to get a second body as a back up for my extensive traveling later the year or wait for the X1D successor....
    this is what he wrote: :Since the X1D is now no longer new, and you already have one to work with now...I would suggest a little patience "

    my hope is that then X2D will be at Photokina!

    If the X2D shows at Photokina, even if it's in a typical Hasselblad fashion, it will be a mayor undertaking and mayor confidence build.
    There are signs of an X2D, like the significant discounts, Ming Thein comments etc. A new body with a significant advantage over 35mm and new lenses.

    You better watch out
    You better not cry
    Better not pout
    I'm telling you why
    Santa Claus is coming to town



    So we better be good, to get an X2D for the holidays

    Best regards,

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi,

    A 100MP version would not be a major design effort. The 100MP sensor is probably a drop in replacement.

    If the 100MP sensor has on sensor PD the software needs some development, too.

    I would guess that Hasselblad has samples of the new sensors by now.

    The question is if Hasselbald just makes a sensor upgrade, or if they will have a redesigned camera.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by jduncan View Post
    If the X2D shows at Photokina, even if it's in a typical Hasselblad fashion, it will be a mayor undertaking and mayor confidence build.
    There are signs of an X2D, like the significant discounts, Ming Thein comments etc. A new body with a significant advantage over 35mm and new lenses.

    You better watch out
    You better not cry
    Better not pout
    I'm telling you why
    Santa Claus is coming to town



    So we better be good, to get an X2D for the holidays

    Best regards,

  46. #246
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    The question is if Hasselbald just makes a sensor upgrade, or if they will have a redesigned camera.
    Good question. I've used the X1D for just over one year and here are my observations and wish list:

    The X1D comes closest to the ideal camera for me compared to its predecessors in my kit. I emphasize “comes closest” and “for me” for good reason. There are several major differentiators that I’m pleased with:

    • Simplicity and ease of use - the UI is simple, the buttons and knobs are few and large, and the rear LCD is made for people, like me, who would prefer not to put on reading glasses to change camera settings; the menu is simple and iconic; the rear touchscreen works like a smartphone using touch, tap and pinch gestures
    • Color and dynamic range - the colors straight out of the camera are closer to the reality I see in front of me than any other camera I’ve used; the dynamic range and ISO performance are good enough to reduce or eliminate the need for grad ND filters, or flash indoors; shooting at ISO 3200 or 6400 yields quite acceptable results
    • Size and weight - I have large hands [insert political humor here] and have occasionally (with Nikon bodies) used a vertical grip accessory to lengthen the grip of a camera to accommodate my hand size. The X1D fits perfectly; the camera and prime lenses are well balanced allowing hand-held shooting without IBIS
    • Lenses - the native XCD lenses (so far) are exceptional in performance; sharpness edge-to-edge and corner-to-corner is as good as or better than the Zeiss, Phase One Schneider, Pentax, Leica M and Leica S lenses that I’ve used

    Having said all that, there are a few things that could be improved, and likely will be in an X2D (or X1DII). The in-camera CPU is probably incapable of doing some tasks faster (e.g., writing files to the SD card, AF-C rate, start-up time, EVF frame rate). The CPU may also be the bottleneck to getting a live histogram. Not having a live histogram isn’t a deal breaker for me, but it’s something I’d enjoy using. The 2.36MP EVF is virtually identical to that of the a7RII. Sony (with the a7RIII) and Fuji (with the GFX) have gone to a 3.63MP EVF and a faster frame rate. The Leica SL has a 4.41MP EVF. Clearly the X1D’s EVF needs an eventual upgrade. Finally, the movement of the AF point using either the scroll wheels or the rear LCD touchscreen is less desirable than using a rear joystick. And Ming Thein agrees. None of my wish list items can be accomplished with a firmware update (except perhaps a live histogram), so the next iteration of the camera body is something I’ll look forward to.

    I'd prefer an internal redesign, not a new form factor, to improve performance per my wish list. I don't need more megapixels though and would likely find hand-held shooting to be very difficult with a 100MP camera. Hand-held shooting is one of the joys I have with the X1D.

    Finally, here's a portion of a comment from Ming Thein's blog that I couldn't agree with more:

    ...the camera has to *feel* right to make you want to shoot with it. Photography is a subjective, aesthetic, artistic, intangible pursuit: you’re not going to do it unless you have to if the process isn’t enjoyable, too.
    Joe
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hmmm, doesn't this camera (pictured below), tick some of the boxes mentioned? Large LCD for reading glasses free viewing, thin body form factor for one handed operation with built in grip for large hands, large buttons for easy, no fumbling in the dark access and yes, a touch pad for what I assume is designed for moving the autofocus point? My guess is MP count is quite manageable too! I wonder, which camera was an inspiration for the other?

    It's also already available for sale, so Hasselblad better get movin' on that X2D! Ming, take notice!

    Dave (D&A)
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    Last edited by D&A; 16th February 2018 at 15:19.

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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    For me a faster startup and shorter blackout would be of much more value than any increased pixel density.
    I have used Leica S 37MP and lower DR than x1d for years now and never felt any need for more MP or more DR.
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Good question. I've used the X1D for just over one year and here are my observations and wish list:

    The X1D comes closest to the ideal camera for me compared to its predecessors in my kit. I emphasize “comes closest” and “for me” for good reason. There are several major differentiators that I’m pleased with:

    • Simplicity and ease of use - the UI is simple, the buttons and knobs are few and large, and the rear LCD is made for people, like me, who would prefer not to put on reading glasses to change camera settings; the menu is simple and iconic; the rear touchscreen works like a smartphone using touch, tap and pinch gestures
    • Color and dynamic range - the colors straight out of the camera are closer to the reality I see in front of me than any other camera I’ve used; the dynamic range and ISO performance are good enough to reduce or eliminate the need for grad ND filters, or flash indoors; shooting at ISO 3200 or 6400 yields quite acceptable results
    • Size and weight - I have large hands [insert political humor here] and have occasionally (with Nikon bodies) used a vertical grip accessory to lengthen the grip of a camera to accommodate my hand size. The X1D fits perfectly; the camera and prime lenses are well balanced allowing hand-held shooting without IBIS
    • Lenses - the native XCD lenses (so far) are exceptional in performance; sharpness edge-to-edge and corner-to-corner is as good as or better than the Zeiss, Phase One Schneider, Pentax, Leica M and Leica S lenses that I’ve used

    Having said all that, there are a few things that could be improved, and likely will be in an X2D (or X1DII). The in-camera CPU is probably incapable of doing some tasks faster (e.g., writing files to the SD card, AF-C rate, start-up time, EVF frame rate). The CPU may also be the bottleneck to getting a live histogram. Not having a live histogram isn’t a deal breaker for me, but it’s something I’d enjoy using. The 2.36MP EVF is virtually identical to that of the a7RII. Sony (with the a7RIII) and Fuji (with the GFX) have gone to a 3.63MP EVF and a faster frame rate. The Leica SL has a 4.41MP EVF. Clearly the X1D’s EVF needs an eventual upgrade. Finally, the movement of the AF point using either the scroll wheels or the rear LCD touchscreen is less desirable than using a rear joystick. And Ming Thein agrees. None of my wish list items can be accomplished with a firmware update (except perhaps a live histogram), so the next iteration of the camera body is something I’ll look forward to.

    I'd prefer an internal redesign, not a new form factor, to improve performance per my wish list. I don't need more megapixels though and would likely find hand-held shooting to be very difficult with a 100MP camera. Hand-held shooting is one of the joys I have with the X1D.

    Finally, here's a portion of a comment from Ming Thein's blog that I couldn't agree with more:



    Joe

    After nearly one year using the X1D, I agree with nearly all of your points. For me, there are still 4 major shortcomings of the camera (3 of them could be implemented with firmware, I assume):

    1) lack of automated focus stacking: with MFD, focus stacking has become a regular exercise (still life, landscape, macro). Problem is that with focus-by-wire lenses it is a PITA. With my previous Leica S, this was fun (although slow), as the lenses give you the mechanical feed-back. I am optimistic that Hasselblad implements something similar what Nikon D850 or P1 already can do.

    2) not so-good depth of field control: yes, there is the DoF button, but Leica S has this implemented in a perfect way, as you see the estimated DoF distances in the top-LCD. So it is quite easy to plan the hyperfocal distance for landscape shots. Any distance information would be also welcome as the focus-by-wire lenses have no markings, making it complicated to use an external app.

    3) no way to control shutter speed algorithm in AE-mode: the shortest shutter speed seems to be 1/focal length. I would like to have more flexibility to program this (fixed shutter speeds or at least 1/2 or 1/3 x focal length), as most other cameras do.

    4) no tiltable LCD
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    Re: X1D: Where are we at?

    Hi Joe,

    I read some recent write up un Ming Thein's blog. It seems that his analysis is pretty close to mine. Hasselblad did develop the X1D within the constraints they had. Developing a proprietary ASIC and thermal management in connection with continous feed to live view has been an issue.

    A lot of improvements have done in firmware. But, hardware implementation sets some limits.

    He also wrote that even he has not received the latest firmware. Hasselblad does what it can to deliver to customer so Chief Of Strategy needs to wait.

    Ming tein indicates that he hopes that the next generation of sensor will have PDAF.

    It is a worthwhile read: https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/01/3...asselblad-x1d/

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Good question. I've used the X1D for just over one year and here are my observations and wish list:

    The X1D comes closest to the ideal camera for me compared to its predecessors in my kit. I emphasize “comes closest” and “for me” for good reason. There are several major differentiators that I’m pleased with:

    • Simplicity and ease of use - the UI is simple, the buttons and knobs are few and large, and the rear LCD is made for people, like me, who would prefer not to put on reading glasses to change camera settings; the menu is simple and iconic; the rear touchscreen works like a smartphone using touch, tap and pinch gestures
    • Color and dynamic range - the colors straight out of the camera are closer to the reality I see in front of me than any other camera I’ve used; the dynamic range and ISO performance are good enough to reduce or eliminate the need for grad ND filters, or flash indoors; shooting at ISO 3200 or 6400 yields quite acceptable results
    • Size and weight - I have large hands [insert political humor here] and have occasionally (with Nikon bodies) used a vertical grip accessory to lengthen the grip of a camera to accommodate my hand size. The X1D fits perfectly; the camera and prime lenses are well balanced allowing hand-held shooting without IBIS
    • Lenses - the native XCD lenses (so far) are exceptional in performance; sharpness edge-to-edge and corner-to-corner is as good as or better than the Zeiss, Phase One Schneider, Pentax, Leica M and Leica S lenses that I’ve used

    Having said all that, there are a few things that could be improved, and likely will be in an X2D (or X1DII). The in-camera CPU is probably incapable of doing some tasks faster (e.g., writing files to the SD card, AF-C rate, start-up time, EVF frame rate). The CPU may also be the bottleneck to getting a live histogram. Not having a live histogram isn’t a deal breaker for me, but it’s something I’d enjoy using. The 2.36MP EVF is virtually identical to that of the a7RII. Sony (with the a7RIII) and Fuji (with the GFX) have gone to a 3.63MP EVF and a faster frame rate. The Leica SL has a 4.41MP EVF. Clearly the X1D’s EVF needs an eventual upgrade. Finally, the movement of the AF point using either the scroll wheels or the rear LCD touchscreen is less desirable than using a rear joystick. And Ming Thein agrees. None of my wish list items can be accomplished with a firmware update (except perhaps a live histogram), so the next iteration of the camera body is something I’ll look forward to.

    I'd prefer an internal redesign, not a new form factor, to improve performance per my wish list. I don't need more megapixels though and would likely find hand-held shooting to be very difficult with a 100MP camera. Hand-held shooting is one of the joys I have with the X1D.

    Finally, here's a portion of a comment from Ming Thein's blog that I couldn't agree with more:



    Joe

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