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X1D: Where are we at?

S

siddhaarta

Member
I would say, this is a "state-of-the art" design for an super-wideangle, especially as regards impressive corner-performance.

We have seen that with the Zeiss Batis 18mm already. Fuji 23mm MTF (don't know whether they are from real lens measurements or computer) is similar.

"Older" designs, like Leica S 24mm or Hasselblad HC 24mm are weaker in the corners (on a very high level, of course).

Big, big plus: 77mm which opens a whole world for use of compact filters.

Only down-side, I see for now is the heavy vignetting and also quite high distortion (XCD 30mm users already know it, but here it seems worse).
 
Godfrey

Godfrey

Well-known member
It's a lot of money to spend, but I could see owning the X1D with just this 21mm and the 100mm macro as a complete kit to complement the Leica M-D and the Light L16...

Whether I actually do it or not is unanswerable right now. A lot of other gear will be sold to fund that kind of expenditure, and then I have to weigh just how much usage I'll actually get out of it before clicking the buy button.

G
 
J

jduncan

Active member
siddhaarta said:
I would say, this is a "state-of-the art" design for an super-wide angle, especially as regards impressive corner-performance.

We have seen that with the Zeiss Batis 18mm already. Fuji 23mm MTF (don't know whether they are from real lens measurements or computer) is similar.

"Older" designs, like Leica S 24mm or Hasselblad HC 24mm are weaker in the corners (on a very high level, of course).

Big, big plus: 77mm which opens a whole world for use of compact filters.

Only down-side, I see for now is the heavy vignetting and also quite a high distortion (XCD 30mm users already know it, but here it seems worse).
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for reading the charts. I was expecting heavy vignetting (and I hope Phocus will handle it) but I am concerned about distortion.

Let's see how it performs. In my case, I am waiting for the long ones, but having a well-rounded lens collection is very important for the future of the platform.


Side note: Are we going back to the bad communication skills days? What does it means that we don't have a press release on Dpreview?
I hope that it's a Dpreview issue and not that Hasselblad forgot to send the press release to them.

Best regards,
 
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S

sog1927

Member
tcdeveau said:
Here's a comparison with the other XCD lenses. The way I'm interpreting it resolution and contrast won't be as strong in the corners of the 21mm as the 30mm. I'm a bit surprised as the 21mm doesn't appear to be much different at f4 than f8.

Here's some info regarding MTF for the Batis 18mm:

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160414_1752-ZeissBatis18f2_8-MTF.html

I've never been one to judge a lens by MTF though. I want a native wider than 30mm lens for the X1D and am just happy the 21mm is here.

View attachment 134041
Click to expand...
I think it's astonishingly good for a lens that wide.
 
S

siddhaarta

Member
Joe Colson said:
I finished updating the firmware for both my camera and my X and HC lenses yesterday.

The only thing left on my wish list for the current camera design is the ability to use Auto ISO in M (Manual) mode. I believe that Auto ISO in M mode is possible with the current design and I will continue to push for that feature through Ming and Ove Bengtsson, the product manager.

Joe
Click to expand...

My wishlist is getting shorter also, but ...

- Not sure why exposure bracketing has to exclude the use of self timer. This is my principal use case: camera on tripod, longish exposure time, exposure bracketing, self timer to avoid vibrations.
- Still missing the focus bracketing function (like implemented with P1 or Nikon D850). I don't really see the point of a focus-by-wire medium format macro lens without this function.
- According to Ming, hyperlocal information for a given aperture (like implemented with Leica S) is not feasible with the current sensor and CDAF lenses. Seems we have to wait for the X2D for that one, or even longer. I use a Disto for this kind of shots (normally also with focus bracketing) ... not really practical.
- Interesting to read the arguments in Mings blog regarding the problems for Auto ISO in manual mode, but there should be a solution for that one ...
 
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J

jduncan

Active member
nathantw said:
Well, that's a good way of stealing Hasselblad's thunder and tipping the competition on what's ahead so they can develop their versions of it.
Click to expand...

Hi,

A comment:

Ming Thein says:
May 9, 2018, at 8:02 PM
LV histogram/ blinkies – we want to implement this in parallel with new imaging pipeline so they’re representative of raw capture, not JPEG preview settings. So, not anytime soon.

Auto ISO in manual – I explained on your post in the X1D FB group that this sensor generation can only be adjusted in 1/3 stop increments, but aperture/shutter can be 1, 1/2 or 1/3 – which means you may land up with a 1/6th stop mismatch. There would be more complaints of inconsistent exposure than requests so far for auto-ISO in manual, so we picked the lesser evil…

Hyperfocal for a given aperture – this requires precise information on the currently focused distance, which is not possible with CDAF lenses. It’s adequate on smaller formats as DOF covers errors, but not with MF – at least not with the current generation of position sensors. In practice unless on a wide, this is likely to be close to infinity anyway.

135mm – prototypes in testing now…

Reply


That last bit.
I know we need the X2D for the platform to be much more flexible for portraits, but the X1D is already good when one can slowdown and accommodate miss focus risks (if you can't grab the Nikon).
This is a very good moment for MF.
With the P1 announcement, the X2D should not be that far away.

Best regards,
 
Godfrey

Godfrey

Well-known member
Man, you guys sure want/need a lot of features that I've never used even if I had them!

I'd be fine with an X1D-Lite ... the 33x44 equivalent of a Leica M-D 262. Of course, with an EVF camera, doing without the LCD is just a silliness, but I could easily do without most of the other stuff including AF entirely.

But I doubt they'll make one like that just for me. :D

G
 
S

siddhaarta

Member
Godfrey said:
Man, you guys sure want/need a lot of features that I've never used even if I had them!

I'd be fine with an X1D-Lite ... the 33x44 equivalent of a Leica M-D 262. Of course, with an EVF camera, doing without the LCD is just a silliness, but I could easily do without most of the other stuff including AF entirely.

But I doubt they'll make one like that just for me. :D

G
Click to expand...
You are obviously right. But for pure photography joy, I give my 903SWC or Chamonix a ride. :)
 
H

hcubell

Well-known member
Godfrey said:
Man, you guys sure want/need a lot of features that I've never used even if I had them!

I'd be fine with an X1D-Lite ... the 33x44 equivalent of a Leica M-D 262. Of course, with an EVF camera, doing without the LCD is just a silliness, but I could easily do without most of the other stuff including AF entirely.

But I doubt they'll make one like that just for me. :D

G
Click to expand...
Need is not the issue. I am very happy with the operability of the X1D as is. The features mentioned would be nice to have. For example, with a 50-150MP sensor, focus bracketing becomes an increasingly important consideration if you want to extract the maximum IQ out of these cameras. I can do it manually, but some automation would be better.
 
S

sog1927

Member
Joe Colson said:
Me too. That's gotta be an oversight that will be fixed with the next firmware update.

Ming has said that a distance scale and focus bracketing are not possible with the current CDAF lens designs. I don't fully understand it but will accept his word for it.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how this can possibly be true since the distance is in the EXIF data. That has to come from *somewhere*.
 
S

siddhaarta

Member
Joe Colson said:
Ming has said that a distance scale and focus bracketing are not possible with the current CDAF lens designs. I don't fully understand it but will accept his word for it.

Joe
Click to expand...
I read his answers to Howards questions. But I think he only answered to the hyperfocal part, not the focus stacking part.

Actually I asked him the same questions a time ago in form of shortcomings:

1) lack of automated focus stacking: with MFD, focus stacking has become a regular exercise (still life, landscape, macro). Problem is that with focus-by-wire lenses it is a PITA. With my previous Leica S and also older manual lenses, this was fun (although slow), as the lenses give you the mechanical feed-back. I am optimistic that Hasselblad implements something similar what Nikon D850 or P1 already can do.

2) not so-good depth of field control: yes, there is the DoF button, but Leica S has this implemented in a perfect way, as you see the estimated DoF distances in the top-LCD. So it is quite easy to plan the hyperfocal distance for landscape shots. Any distance information would be also welcome as the focus-by-wire lenses have no markings, making it complicated to use an external app.

He answered:

1) We’re aware of this and it’s on the FW list
2) Trickier, as focus by wire lenses also have no hard stops, it’s very difficult to estimate position accurately or usefully. Leica S uses a PDAF system that can be calibrated for absolute distances…

This makes sense to me as focus stacking seems a simpler task. I think P1 makes it this way: 1) you define the nearest point by focusing at it, 2) you define the farthest away point by focusing at it, 3) you define how many photos the camera should make between the two points, 4) you start the automation process. Seems that CDAF/focus-by-wire lens is no hindrance to this.

But maybe it is not that easy ...
 
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E

etto72

Member
jduncan said:
Hi,

Ming Thein says:
May 9, 2018, at 8:02 PM
LV histogram/ blinkies – we want to implement this in parallel with new imaging pipeline so they’re representative of raw capture, not JPEG preview settings. So, not anytime soon.
Click to expand...
New imaging pipeline??
What does it mean?
Is that something Hasselblad will introduce with the X2D or with a new Firmware update ?

Thanks
E
 
T

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Joe Colson said:
That means that they're designing the successor to the X1D and it will have a new imaging pipeline. That is something that can't be accomplished with firmware.

Joe
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the info Joe et al.. I think HB has done a great job with firmware updates but it sounds like they're approaching the limit of what they can do with the current hardware. Glad they're aware of some the features we all want to see in the X-line.
-Todd
 
R

rollei8is

Member
Joe Colson said:
I finished updating the firmware for both my camera and my X and HC lenses yesterday.

The only thing left on my wish list for the current camera design is the ability to use Auto ISO in M (Manual) mode. I believe that Auto ISO in M mode is possible with the current design and I will continue to push for that feature through Ming and Ove Bengtsson, the product manager.

The XH Lens Adapter AF support now extends to all the HC lenses if they are new enough to be compatible with new firmware. On that front, I’ve got good news and not so good news (for me) with my HC lenses. After attempting to update my HC lenses to firmware v19.0.3, the outcome was mixed:

• HC 150n - AF works; this is an “orange dot” lens and I expected the update to work; faster AF than XCD 120mm macro due to shorter focus “throw”
• HC 210 - no joy; lens wouldn’t take the update
• HC 300 - surprise, surprise, AF works; monster lens but OK from a tripod

I may look for a newer (used) HC 210 just to have AF because that’s a lens I’ve come to enjoy. If anyone knows how to determine (by serial number or version) whether an HC lens is compatible with HC lens firmware v19.0.3, please let me know.

Joe
Click to expand...

Hi Joe,

Can you enlighten me how you go about updating firmware on the HC LENS. I have an 210 and 300 and an adapter. I would like to give this a try.
thanks,

R-----
 
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